Our managers actually are being backed.

Ikon

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Christ, why do you even need a manager after that point?
Well, the board managed to sign one of them... :rolleyes:
 

tomaldinho1

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This isn't a controversial opinion, it's just a fact. The issue is we have recruited managers poorly and they, in turn, have bought in a very random selection of players given so many contrasting styles of play.

Ole has been heavily backed, particularly when you when you think what a leap of faith it is for the board to sanction Maguire, AWB, James & Bruno in his first season. I'd say you could argue he has been the most consistently supported of any post SAF manager bar Mou in his first two seasons when he got pretty much every position he wanted and then, only when results turned against him, decided pretty much every player he'd said yes to was actually not what he wanted.
 

zenith

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As others have mentioned, throwing money around senselessly is not backing the manager. Putting together a football structure with key responsibilities being placed on qualified personnel and giving the manager a good set up behind him to work like a well oiled machine. That is backing your manager.

Just having a good CEO personality does not bring success to an organization. It's the work that they put in behind the scenes to enable others, that's the difference maker.

Here, we just have one idiot, who thinks no end of himself
 

Skills

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As others have mentioned, throwing money around senselessly is not backing the manager. Putting together a football structure with key responsibilities being placed on qualified personnel and giving the manager a good set up behind him to work like a well oiled machine. That is backing your manager.
Actually that's got nothing to do with backing the manager. In fact, what you're doing there is creating a structure that is stripping as much power/influence as possible from the managers job, so that you can continue to succeed irrespective of him.

DOFs aren't there to help managers/head coaches. They're there to quite frankly hold them accountable for their performance. They're there to make sure the club is always on track.
 

Idxomer

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Christ, why do you even need a manager after that point?
£500m worth of players in 2 years, anything less and the manager isn't backed.
 

red thru&thru

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Very good point. We have alot of problems to deal with at United,but the biggest of them all is Woodward.

I want the Glazers to spend more money on United but the money they have spent so far is enough for United to mount a title challenge or at least be in a title race. However, this money has not been spent wisely, the reason being Woodward and his stooges Judge and Arnold have little understanding of football.

We can easily bounce back from these dire years if the Glazers could just replace Woodward with a competent football person. You can't be making the same mistakes for 7 years and expect things to get better when the architect of the said mistakes is still in the job.
Woodward sits there in the executive box at Old Trafford, he doesn't even feel embarrassed having his face beamed to the rest of the world, a face which represents everything wrong at the football club for the past seven years.

No manager will succeed with Woodward in charge and if he loves the club, just move over and let someone like Van Der Sar do the job.
For every time there's an argument from fans about money, stats like this can be made by the owners and Ed. So fans look silly. However, if you point to the true failure of Ed, the football, he nor the owners, can say anything.

This is why I maintain fans have to target this area and not about money not being spent.
 

JPRouve

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Christ, why do you even need a manager after that point?
Without even taking into account the players own wishes, there is close to 400m worth of footballers without counting Maguire and Wan Bissaka. :lol:
 

el3mel

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There is more to "backing the Manager" than just randomly throwing money about.
It means supporting the manager's philosophy, as far as realistically possible, and providing him with all needs/wants, again, as far as realistically possible.
Solskjaer's (generally accepted) shopping list of: Koulibaly, Haaland, Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano, Bruno, Bellingham possibly Alcantara & Chilwell...
How many have the board delivered for him?

Now I'm not saying give him a Billion to spend and go get all of his top targets, but the board are just not getting any of his targets for him.
It just seems that there is a constant stream of alternatives and make do's because the board fail time and time again to get deals concluded, often because of some perceived financial matter, and are the alternatives even players that Solskjaer rates?

United do spend plenty of money, they just often spend it very, very badly, and there's one common demoninator for that.
It's like Moyes claiming his list included Fabregas, Gareth Bale and Ronaldo but the club didn't bring him any, or LVG claiming he wanted Neymar, Muller, Higuain and Lewa. and they both have the nerve to complain they were not backed.

Ok next United manager should make a list of Messi, Ronaldo, KDB and Aubamaeyang so that he can say the board didn't back him when he's sacked.
 

sammsky1

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The Ole ins need to explain how on earth can the manager
a- goes in to Woodward's office and demand a new expensive CB after spending 130m (its actually 145m now thanks to Telles)
maybe because in football you normally play with 2 centre backs? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 

devilish

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maybe because in football you normally play with 2 centre backs? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Sure but usually an 80m signing is bought to carry or at least compliment the other CB. We now need a CB to carry tortoise because he can't run.
 

Charlie Foley

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Not sure we can say moyes wasn’t backed in the market. The reason we didn’t go in for several players was due to his dithering, rather than tight purse strings
 

Robbie Boy

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All have been backed and all have bought poorly bar a-few good signings. The hardcore defenders of each every manager post-Fergie have used this excuse. The Ole in crowd will tell you Jose was backed but Ole wasn't, for instance. It's bias and hypocritical.
 

Snow

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How many of the transfers has Woody made that were actually transfers that the managers wanted to pursue?
 

SER19

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This again.

Moyes wasn't.

Van gaal absolutely didn't want some of the dross we bought.

Mourinho wasn't after finishing 2nd.

Same for ole.

The other point is that 'backing' doesn't mean spending. It means getting the players you want and need and running the club like professionals and not creating an atmosphere doomed to fail.

The amount of money wasted, windows managed shambolically and atrocious squad management in terms of contracts and deadwood is beyond comprehension
 

Robbie Boy

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Honest question: Do other clubs fans defend their failed or failing managers as much as us, with excuse after excuse for their failings? I would love to know what it's like from other clubs perspectives.
 

Dve

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Not a great window, but when Fernandes signed, Ole said he was part of the summer budget, didn´t he?

Compared to the start of last season, United are strengthened with Fernandes, var der Beek, Telles and Cavani. The signings of Diallo and Pellistri are also pretty exiting. Not fantastic perhaps, but neither do I see the doom and gloom being justified.

We came into the season unprepared and have suffered from it in the first few matches, but from now one, I see no excuses for team not to perform. That the summer window is designed to make Ole fail, is some conspiracy theory.
 

Blood Mage

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They are backed when we fail to qualify for Europe, but once we're back in Europe the shackles are put back on. Vicious cycle we've been in the past few years. No excuses for Ole though, he's simply out of his depth and a better manager would achieve better results with the players we currently have.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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None of our managers, SAF included have been backed.

There's a debate to be had about whether their expectations or the players they wanted were realistic or not. We could even argue whether a certain manager deserved to be backed or not.

Spending loads, signing dross and panic buying is not the same as 'backing' a manager. Stop using it as a baton to beat the managers. They all had/have their shortcomings, but if we're being honest none of them was really, properly backed.
 
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At least according to this.
Third most expensive squad in the world apparently, only behind petrol money owned City and Paris..



https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2020/wp308/en/
of course they have been. It’s such a flawed fan reaction, being backed. It’s ridiculous when fans spout things like ‘back him or sack him’

every club in the world has a budget, no club in the world has unlimited spending.

just because the club says no, doesn’t mean they are not backed.

the level of our spending is far greater than the vast majority of clubs in the world.

it’s a ridiculous concept. No manager has a right to buy whoever they like at whatever cost.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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This again.

Moyes wasn't.

Van gaal absolutely didn't want some of the dross we bought.

Mourinho wasn't after finishing 2nd.

Same for ole.

The other point is that 'backing' doesn't mean spending. It means getting the players you want and need and running the club like professionals and not creating an atmosphere doomed to fail.

The amount of money wasted, windows managed shambolically and atrocious squad management in terms of contracts and deadwood is beyond comprehension
Good post.
 

Steve Bruce

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Every manager has spent money, but they wanted steak and Woodward provided pot noodles at the price of steak.

You can't say a manager has been backed if they don't get what they want. We went into the market with Ole wanting a RW, CDM, Cb & grealish. He got none of them
 

DarkXaero

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Of course they've been backed, the numbers don't lie, but a lot of our fans will still vehemently deny that. The biggest problem by far has been that our investment has been extremely poor for the most part. And a lot of that has to do with poor planning & bad managerial appointments. IMO, all 4 of our managerial choices post Fergie have been bad ones.
 

Dve

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This again.

Moyes wasn't.

Van gaal absolutely didn't want some of the dross we bought.

Mourinho wasn't after finishing 2nd.

Same for ole.

The other point is that 'backing' doesn't mean spending. It means getting the players you want and need and running the club like professionals and not creating an atmosphere doomed to fail.

The amount of money wasted, windows managed shambolically and atrocious squad management in terms of contracts and deadwood is beyond comprehension
Yes, Ole didn´t get what he wanted this window but I see no basis for claiming Ole has gotten players he do not want. I believe he can veto against incoming transfers.
 

Steve Bruce

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Of course they've been backed, the numbers don't lie, but a lot of our fans will still vehemently deny that. The biggest problem by far has been that our investment has been extremely poor for the most part. And a lot of that has to do with poor planning & bad managerial appointments. IMO, all 4 of our managerial choices post Fergie have been bad ones.
How are the managers backed when Woodward doesn't go for players the managers want?

We went into the window needing a CDM, RW, Cb & grealish and we got none of OGS targets, how is that being backed?
 

Steve Bruce

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Yes, Ole didn´t get what he wanted this window but I see no basis for claiming Ole has gotten players he do not want. I believe he can veto against incoming transfers.
You telling me he wanted cavani? If so why wait until the final day.

It was more of a case of he's better than nothing.
 

Adnan

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Every manager has spent money, but they wanted steak and Woodward provided pot noodles at the price of steak.

You can't say a manager has been backed if they don't get what they want. We went into the market with Ole wanting a RW, CDM, Cb & grealish. He got none of them
RW Sancho £108m

CB Upamecano €60m plus between €10m to €20m agent fees = potentially a €80m deal.

Grealish £80m and that's without including agent fees.

CDM ?? Rice or Zakaria?

That's close to £300m and is the reason we're in the malaise we find ourselves in. Because we keep giving managers too much power when it comes to recruiting players.


This is how you build a squad in Football Manager.
 

Harry190

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Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Don't spend money on an overvalued player: 'RARARAHHHHH, incompetent, top brass bad'

Spend money on overvalued player: 'RARARAHHH, we paid too much, he's a flop'.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Moyes deserved what he got so I'm not going to talk about him.

But in LVGs two seasons with us - Di Maria Herrera Rojo Shaw Falcao Blind Martial Schneiderlin Schweinsteiger Romero Depay Darmian. Mourinhos first two season before his 3rd season implosion he got Pogba Bailly Mkhitaryan Ibrahimovic Lukaku Sanchez Lindelof Matic.

Back then I was estatic with these signings. I don't know if they were the coaches targets but most of these players performed well in their previous clubs and they were exciting signings

I imagine a few years from now if Maguire keeps going down this path, Awb is still bad in attacking, Telles doesn't adapt in the pl, James is sold for peanuts, Pellistri and Traore don't live up to their potential people will rant about how Ole wasn't backed and how we recruited poorly
 

Steve Bruce

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So you think we only offered Cavani a contract on deadline day?
No,of course not. It was done late enough though to get it through by deadline day.

Look he has been available all summer, if we had him as a target it, it would have been done for the season started.

You can kid yourself if you think he was on Oles wish list if you like.
 

Steve Bruce

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RW Sancho £108m

CB Upamecano €60m plus between €10m to €20m agent fees = potentially a €80m deal.

Grealish £80m and that's without including agent fees.

CDM ?? Rice or Zakaria?

That's close to £300m and is the reason we're in the malaise we find ourselves in. Because we keep giving managers too much power when it comes to recruiting players.


This is how you build a squad in Football Manager.
Who says it has to be those players?

I was naming positions & grealish that Ole wanted in. He got none of them
 

Steve Bruce

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Moyes deserved what he got so I'm not going to talk about him.

But in LVGs two seasons with us - Di Maria Herrera Rojo Shaw Falcao Blind Martial Schneiderlin Schweinsteiger Romero Depay Darmian. Mourinhos first two season before his 3rd season implosion he got Pogba Bailly Mkhitaryan Ibrahimovic Lukaku Sanchez Lindelof Matic.

Back then I was estatic with these signings. I don't know if they were the coaches targets but most of these players performed well in their previous clubs and they were exciting signings

I imagine a few years from now if Maguire keeps going down this path, Awb is still bad in attacking, Telles doesn't adapt in the pl, James is sold for peanuts, Pellistri and Traore don't live up to their potential people will rant about how Ole wasn't backed and how we recruited poorly
Lvg said he got players he didn't want and didn't get the players he did want.

A lot of those signings was Woodward playing real life FM and trying to fix things with big names rather than going for signings the club needed to progress.

I'm not saying these managers are completely innocent in all this but the main protagonist in our downfall in the inept Woodward
 

Robbie Boy

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No,of course not. It was done late enough though to get it through by deadline day.

Look he has been available all summer, if we had him as a target it, it would have been done for the season started.

You can kid yourself if you think he was on Oles wish list if you like.
Well there are plenty of reasons why it could have been done late, but you, or me, would only be speculating.

Likewise with Ole's wishlist; neither of us can offer up indisputable evidence of who Ole wanted, so we can only offer up speculation and conjecture. I just feel the excuses are being readied for Ole by his staunch fans, who in the back of their mind know the writings on the wall. Just my opinion of course.
 

Steve Bruce

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Maybe we got him on lower wages than he initially demanded?
With what his reported wages are I highly doubt that but if you think that fair enough. I cannot prove or disprove anything. I can only put forward what I think with the information in the public domain.
 

Steve Bruce

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Well there are plenty of reasons why it could have been done late, but you, or me, would only be speculating.

Likewise with Ole's wishlist; neither of us can offer up indisputable evidence of who Ole wanted, so we can only offer up speculation and conjecture. I just feel the excuses are being readied for Ole by his staunch fans, who in the back of their mind know the writings on the wall. Just my opinion of course.
I think we can form an fairly accurate idea by what has been reported over months.

I'm by the way not a staunch Ole (as a manager) fan. I don't think he has the tactical aptitude to be good enough and his mates in the coaching department aren't any better.
 

JPRouve

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Who says it has to be those players?

I was naming positions & grealish that Ole wanted in. He got none of them
Who else is it supposed to be? You called the alternatives pot noodles.
 

Dve

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You telling me he wanted cavani? If so why wait until the final day.

It was more of a case of he's better than nothing.
I think Ole is pretty fine with Cavani. Why not. It´s a one year contract and he could have positive influence on the squad. Greenwood could learn from him, and Martial needs competition. Hopefully a lot better than nothing.
 

Steve Bruce

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Who else is it supposed to be? You called the alternatives pot noodles.
Yes because Ole got a completely different set of players to what he wanted.

Maybe pork chops would have been better as pot noodle reading it back comes across as the players brought in are bad.

But if he asks for particular positions to be filled and none are, then he's not being backed