Our medical staff

MyOnlySolskjaer

Creator of Player Performance threads
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
21,326
Location
Player Performance Threads
They are big culprits into the performance of our season, whether it be mismanaging Pogba throughout or Rashford. What is giving them the right to clear players?

This needs to be addressed just as much as player signings.

 

Chairman Steve

Full Member
Joined
May 9, 2018
Messages
2,619
Questions potentially do need to be asked of them. However in Rashfords case, if they were aware of this and had told OGS about it, then the blames more on OGS for going ahead with it. This case actually makes me believe that Pogba is injured again and it’s purely not just some stunt to go to Real this month.

If OGS is rushing key players back through injury or running them into the ground, and the medical team is advising him against rushing them back then OGS is at fault.

Personally I’m leaning towards OGS being desperate to have them because his options are so threadbare, which I’m holding both OGS and the board responsible for due to our diabolical recruitment.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
4,520
Manager has to make better decisions, he could have given Rashford night off and still won’t that game. Mctominay was being run ragged by the Longstaffs and didn’t get subbed off, Pogba was played whilst injured and fortunate that Maguire didn’t get worse injury the other day.

Ole has to have some balls and make bold decisions, I expect the injuries will get worse and worse throughout season especially for the forwards because of how
we play.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
9,372
Supports
Varane - Maguire
It’s down to the medical team seriously. Ole is a football manager not a football qualified physio or medical manager, football manager got no clue about such a thing. It’s the medical team job to tell the football manager that the player shouldn’t be played.

Pogba was the first example, the guy just came back from injury, not even two weeks, he had to go back to injury again because there is zero clue whether he was ready to play or no. And now Rashford. Ole is an ex professional footballer, he knows that risking players due to injury can go fatal for the player’s career, he has no reason to rush key players back if the medical team didn’t make clear statement.
 

VeevaVee

despite the protests, wears Ugg boots
Scout
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
43,585
Location
Manchester
Our backroom is shocking. From fitness to injuries, it's just atrocious. Has been for years.
 

Glorio

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
1,033
Thought I'd bump this thread as it appears (at least) that the England medical team's recent decisions again cause one to really wonder about the standard of our medical team and it's effect on our players' long term careers.

Rashford was being played consistently by United and when he reported for England, they deemed him unfit to play as he was carrying an injury.

Mason was deemed unfit to play by England earlier and has now been found to be carrying the same injury, so while I appreciate we don't have the same range of choices, how is United's medical team passing these boys fit for action while England is finding them unfit for action?

I might be wrong but it seems that our medical team is either shockingly bad or desperation due to lack of squad options is causing them to make shockingly bad calls.

Mods: perfectly Ok if you feel it warrants a new thread
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
3,949
I might be wrong but it seems that our medical team is either shockingly bad or desperation due to lack of squad options is causing them to make shockingly bad calls.
It's about squad depth me thinks. If we had other players in the squad to replace Rashford he probably gets time to heal. Same with the England medical team they report what they found to Southgate and his coaching staff but because England have such a deep squad in those positions they can leave out Rashford and Greenwood. At United you leave those 2 out you are left with Mata, James and a young Amad.
 

Crashoutcassius

Full Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
8,612
Location
playa del carmen
Who should we have played instead ... We had the most games of anyone in Europe over this period, and the club couldn't deliver ole a winger last summer. The medical staff surely cleared him but we had no choice..imagine we didn't have rashford and mason for 6 months... Would James just have played every minute
 

RonaldoVII

Full Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
22,278
Location
PSN:FrozenInHell
Mason is probably less injured than Rashford and Maguire but his fringe status in the England squad meant little point taking him. He's been in our top 2/3 players for the last 2 months so seems more about giving him a rest than being properly injured.
 

BFernandes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
858
Location
Groom Lake
Our medical staff consist of Phelan with his bucket of water and a magic sponge.

And an orange segment.
 

ShinjiNinja26

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
4,826
Location
Location, Location
We should bring in that bird Mourinho fecked off at Chelsea, Eva I think her name was, They barely seemed to get any injuries when she was there. Not to mention she’s very easy on the eye. :)
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
10,950
Location
Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
Thought I'd bump this thread as it appears (at least) that the England medical team's recent decisions again cause one to really wonder about the standard of our medical team and it's effect on our players' long term careers.

Rashford was being played consistently by United and when he reported for England, they deemed him unfit to play as he was carrying an injury.

Mason was deemed unfit to play by England earlier and has now been found to be carrying the same injury, so while I appreciate we don't have the same range of choices, how is United's medical team passing these boys fit for action while England is finding them unfit for action?

I might be wrong but it seems that our medical team is either shockingly bad or desperation due to lack of squad options is causing them to make shockingly bad calls.

Mods: perfectly Ok if you feel it warrants a new thread
"I might be wrong but it seems that our medical team is either shockingly bad or desperation due to lack of squad options is causing them to make shockingly bad calls."

So either way, they're shockingly bad?

Or neither.

England maybe err on the side of caution (as players are not their employees) and advise clubs (as have other options and want to keep onside with clubs).

Clubs make decisions (based on medical advice) .. sometimes rest, sometimes don't.

I really don't think experienced medical staff (and the external medical options we use) are all shockingly bad but England's aren't.

Whether we should have rested players this season is another matter.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
12,154
Mason is probably less injured than Rashford and Maguire but his fringe status in the England squad meant little point taking him. He's been in our top 2/3 players for the last 2 months so seems more about giving him a rest than being properly injured.
This. If Greenwood really was injured, he wouldn't have been able to perform the way he has. He might have a really small issue which in theory could get worse and United/England decided its best that he stays home as he is unlikely to get much gametime anyway.
 

owlo

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
1,224
Buck stops with the manager. Been plain as day for months he’s been running his players into the ground to save his own ass.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: Unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
80,571
Location
india
I said it after Rashford's statement included a mention of his injury - that it's highly unprofessional of the club to allow this to carry on the way it is. Players talking about playing through injury reflects very poorly on our management. We can use Rashford playing, but not at the risk of further injury and damage.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
110,065
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Thought I'd bump this thread as it appears (at least) that the England medical team's recent decisions again cause one to really wonder about the standard of our medical team and it's effect on our players' long term careers.

Rashford was being played consistently by United and when he reported for England, they deemed him unfit to play as he was carrying an injury.

Mason was deemed unfit to play by England earlier and has now been found to be carrying the same injury, so while I appreciate we don't have the same range of choices, how is United's medical team passing these boys fit for action while England is finding them unfit for action?

I might be wrong but it seems that our medical team is either shockingly bad or desperation due to lack of squad options is causing them to make shockingly bad calls.

Mods: perfectly Ok if you feel it warrants a new thread
What you’re describing there didn’t happen. What actually happened is the club protecting their assets. The England medical staff didn’t discover Greenwood’s injury. The club have obviously known about it for ages and decided (presumably in consultation with Mason) that the best thing for his long term career/health is a month’s rest.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

Creator of Player Performance threads
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
21,326
Location
Player Performance Threads
Thought I'd bump this thread as it appears (at least) that the England medical team's recent decisions again cause one to really wonder about the standard of our medical team and it's effect on our players' long term careers.

Rashford was being played consistently by United and when he reported for England, they deemed him unfit to play as he was carrying an injury.

Mason was deemed unfit to play by England earlier and has now been found to be carrying the same injury, so while I appreciate we don't have the same range of choices, how is United's medical team passing these boys fit for action while England is finding them unfit for action?

I might be wrong but it seems that our medical team is either shockingly bad or desperation due to lack of squad options is causing them to make shockingly bad calls.

Mods: perfectly Ok if you feel it warrants a new thread
Actually, in this case, it seems that the statement came from the United side prior to the England squad announcement. United made it public and claimed he's not in contention for selection so that he can recover from the injuries.

I'm still very critical of the medical staff, as I was in the OP as there is still glaring mismanagement.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
110,065
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
I said it after Rashford's statement included a mention of his injury - that it's highly unprofessional of the club to allow this to carry on the way it is. Players talking about playing through injury reflects very poorly on our management. We can use Rashford playing, but not at the risk of further injury and damage.
It’s been going on since forever. At every club. Listen to ex pros talk about playing through the pain and repeated injections to get them through matches. This is nothing new or unusual.
 

tenpoless

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
7,143
Location
*Teleports behind you*
We should bring in that bird Mourinho fecked off at Chelsea, Eva I think her name was, They barely seemed to get any injuries when she was there. Not to mention she’s very easy on the eye. :)
Should have brought her in before we sacked Jose. That way he would leave and we didnt have to fire him.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
110,065
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Another article on the same subject.


Players were regularly treated for groin problems — known as Gilmore’s Groin, named after doctor Jerry Gilmore who pioneered research into the treatment of the condition in athletes — with cortisone injections. To properly eradicate the injury, an operation would’ve been required ruling a player out for up to two months, but regularly having injections would allow them to play on and on.

The method was applied to other joints to temporarily reduce symptoms, allowing the players to continue and keep their place.

Although injections are not as common now, they are still used today. Holland manager Ronald Koeman revealed Liverpool defender Virgil van Dijk has been requiring “constant injections” to allow him to play with two broken ribs.
It’s just United’s medical team that are the problem here, obviously :rolleyes:
 

Beachryan

More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
9,638
It’s been going on since forever. At every club. Listen to ex pros talk about playing through the pain and repeated injections to get them through matches. This is nothing new or unusual.
Someone - was it Hughes? - noted that if elite athletes only played when fully, 100% fit they'd never play. Dealing with injuries is just part of the profession, unfortunately.

Or you can be like Arjen Robben, and play a dozen games a season :)
 

711

Verified Bird Expert
Scout
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
21,773
Location
Don't Sign Old Players
Players do have minds of their own. It's quite possible United advised Greenwood that to go with England would risk his future career and he said ok, I won't go, whereas their advice to Rashford was exactly the same and he said he still wanted to go.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
15,506
We've been saying this for years. Our club has been injury prone for a long time, with the most damning part being the number of players who have recurring injuries or come back for a game or two only to get injured again. The medical staff are useless.
 

SS

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Messages
4,323
Location
UK
It's about squad depth me thinks. If we had other players in the squad to replace Rashford he probably gets time to heal. Same with the England medical team they report what they found to Southgate and his coaching staff but because England have such a deep squad in those positions they can leave out Rashford and Greenwood. At United you leave those 2 out you are left with Mata, James and a young Amad.
I vividly remember Ole bringing on Rashford in the 70th minute of a pointless/already won game not too long ago.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
33,880
Would it help now with Murtough in place as the sporting director, that the medical staff only report to him?

So if the medical staff doesn't believe a player should play, he should be able to pull them out of the squad irrespective of whether the manager needs him for the next game?
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
110,065
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
We've been saying this for years. Our club has been injury prone for a long time, with the most damning part being the number of players who have recurring injuries or come back for a game or two only to get injured again. The medical staff are useless.
I’m sure that exact statement, word for word, could be (and has been!) made by fans of every other club in the league. In fact, it’s particularly ironic to see this thread bumped after a season where United have had far fewer significant injuries than any of our rival clubs in a uniquely brutal season in terms of load vs recovery.
 

hubbuh

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
6,110
Location
UK, hun?
Starting to wonder who the 5/6 players are.

Rashford, Greenwood, Maguire, Lindelof for sure.

This is where City's bottomless well of petro dollars really comes into its own. To replace Rashford and/or Greenwood we have Dan James or Amad Diallo (looks talented but isn't ready), while City have Mahrez and Bernado Silva regularly warming the bench.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
55,024
Ole is running this team to the ground. All for nothing as he hasn't won any trophies.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
15,506
I’m sure that exact statement, word for word, could be (and has been!) made by fans of every other club in the league. In fact, it’s particularly ironic to see this thread bumped after a season where United have had far fewer significant injuries than any of our rival clubs in a uniquely brutal season in terms of load vs recovery.
True, though these kind of stats are easily available. To be fair we havent done badly this season but for a few years we were right at the top of the injury rankings year on year.

Like I say, it's easy to spot problems when we had so many players rushing back and promptly getting injured again. Theres no excuse for that.

It's also hard to quantify the likes of Rashford who are not out through injuries but are still shit because of them.
 

Matthew84!

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
762
Location
England, herefordshire
Honestly people will moan about anything, Greenwood was likely not to make the squad anyway, pulling him out now makes sense.
Every player plays through injury, as a manager you have to the player on his word, I think its more of Rashford wanting to play than sit out,
Anyone saying Ole is running the players into the ground need they head seeing too.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
6,715
They are big culprits into the performance of our season, whether it be mismanaging Pogba throughout or Rashford. What is giving them the right to clear players?

This needs to be addressed just as much as player signings.

Ole may have overuled them as he has final say on the team sheet.
 

Bobcat

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
5,570
Location
Behind the curtains, leering at the neighbors
I thought about this the other day.

Regarding Rashfords injury, can the club force him to have surgery against his wishes? Not saying thats what happened, but is that even legal?

Edit: Also have to add that our medical staff cant just be a bunch of mugs, because our injury record this year have been quite good really
 

Matriac

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
1,135
I thought about this the other day.

Regarding Rashfords injury, can the club force him to have surgery against his wishes? Not saying thats what happened, but is that even legal?

Edit: Also have to add that our medical staff cant just be a bunch of mugs, because our injury record this year have been quite good really
Like another type of debate in the media, I'm pretty sure it's a "his body his choice" situation.

However we could claim that we think it's irresponsible to play him in his current condition, and that while we'd pay him as per the contract, we'd not play him in any games unless he gets an operation.

Then if he still doesn't want to, there might be grounds for claiming breach of contract if the player doesn't take necessary steps to make himself available to play in the condition that the club demands.

Rarely if ever will go that far. But some pressure can be exerted to make him consider it.
 

sun_tzu

The Art of Bore
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
17,144
Location
Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.
They are big culprits into the performance of our season, whether it be mismanaging Pogba throughout or Rashford. What is giving them the right to clear players?

This needs to be addressed just as much as player signings.

Ole may have overuled them as he has final say on the team sheet.
I would have thought the medical team can over-rule if based on immediate danger to the player ... but for a long term problem they can probably only advise options (rest, treatment, or play through injection etc)... its then down to the player and manager to make a decision

Of course there may be a culture that people play through injuries but managing and changing a culture is probably something that has to come from the manager or even higher (i.e. protect the long term value of our assets above all else)

Ive certainly engaged in sports either against medical advice or Ive stretched what Im doing because Ive felt ok to continue... and thats without the added pressure of huge salaries and fans expectations

If the medical staff have put the short term needs of the club above the helath of the player then they should be struck off... but i find it hard to believe doctors etc would do that and as I say more likley they give a range of options for chronic isues and the player and manager take a decision.

Looks like Rashford is going to need some time to recover at some point - if not this summer then perhaps after the euros and he might miss the start of the season?

Cant blame him for wanting to play in the Euros - I think its completly natural that any player would want to... But if Uniteds medical staff were so bad then wouldnt right now england medical staff be saying Rashford cant play - but they seem ok with him playing (probably with injections etc) so if two independent medicak teams have reached the same conclusion - the player seems ok with playing in both circumstances and so do both managers ... so in this instance it seems harsh to single out our medical team

Likewise if Maguire goes to play with England then the same looks to be true

As for Greenwood perhaps its more that he thought he would be on the fringes that has made him withdraw to get treatment ... certainly does not seem to have been a decision thats come from the England medical team or manager