buckooo1978
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a fit Thiago clone would be ideal
Yep this. That would pretty much allow the lineup we saw last night. Fred would be replaced by the DM specialist. VDB and Bruno just in front of him were a great combo to watch.DM specialist, I've been wanting one for years. That would then give us more options on how we can line up tactically.
100% agree.DM, DM, DM!!!! I’ve been boring myself to death repeating it for years.
We play Fred and Scott together to make up for the fact we have zero top level DM’s in the team.
Matic gave us a glimpse of his former self but his legs have gone.
I got pelted for saying it would improve Pogba (which it would) but it would improve the WHOLE TEAM.
Not only that it would eliminate the only real headache Ole has to deal with every match, of whether to gamble on Pogba or VDB next to the likes of Fred, but every time he does they let him down and everytime he plays Fred and Scott to stay solid he gets pelted for it because it limits our abilities on the pitch.
I’m not denying I’d have lived Partey but you did see Donny play last night right?We should have spent the Donny money plus a bit more on Partey before the gooners did.
I get what you mean and I have seen signs of him being a top DM.I see. Of course he can't do what Fabinho and Fernandinho does, he's only 21.
Tbh I only watched him a few matches but I'm of the opinion that he's already one of the best DM in the league atm. Despite his age. And he'll be a really really good one in one or two years. When he reaches his peak.
He's very strong but quick enough. Strong tackle. Good anticipation and he read the game really well. Good positioning. So he made quite a number of good interceptions. He's a quite decent passer as well.
And I heard he can play as a CB as well. Imo he'd be a pretty good CB.
Well what could you expect from Ed and his highschool mate? We should thank feck that we were able to do transfers I think.
Yeah agreed on that, we'll never know until he moves to a top club. If he will of course.I get what you mean and I have seen signs of him being a top DM.
The thing that concerns me is that he is playing in a West Ham team that set up defensively so he is never exposed where say a Manutd or a bigger club, he will have to be a midfield general where he is left 3 v 3 and has to win the ball back.
I am not saying he is not capable of doing it, as you say he is 21 and it will come.
This is spot on.DM, DM, DM!!!! I’ve been boring myself to death repeating it for years.
We play Fred and Scott together to make up for the fact we have zero top level DM’s in the team.
Matic gave us a glimpse of his former self but his legs have gone.
I got pelted for saying it would improve Pogba (which it would) but it would improve the WHOLE TEAM.
Not only that it would eliminate the only real headache Ole has to deal with every match, of whether to gamble on Pogba or VDB next to the likes of Fred, but every time he does they let him down and everytime he plays Fred and Scott to stay solid he gets pelted for it because it limits our abilities on the pitch.
Carrick-ish type of player is too rare though no idea who is like this currently still playing.What we've lost:
How we've replaced it:
I stand corrected. If he was B2B you would see him more in defensive situations. Let's say he acts as a "free 8" from central midfield with a license to push forward. Wouldn't mind seeing him in our team whatever!De Bruyne is a B2B?
Is this a wum
Practically anything that doesn't rely on United buying Kevin van de Bruyne meets the requirement of "more feasible".IMV we only have Bruno in the attacking midfield role who is delivering on a regular basis. Pogba has the ability no doubt to hold a key position. Whether that’s going to happen is, on the other hand, a different story. Matic can still do a job for us as DM but the signs of age are starting to creep in. Fred as much as he gives everything in every game, for me lacks important qualities to be a top performer. MacT has the attributes and potential to take on the roll as DM so I’m not too worried in that department. VDB we haven’t really seen what he brings to the table yet, but looking at his game time so far it does send out a wave of uncertainty.
So if you believe our midfield is where it should be then fine. If not which type of player(s) do you believe we need to strengthen that so important department and would Pogba be part of it?
Myself I’d be reckoning with the further development of McT because I believe he can be that good. Bruno goes without saying of course. I don’t believe Pogba as an option so he’s out for me. So for me we need a top class B2B more than anything.
It’s not going to happen but you can dream: Kevin de Bruyne would be my ideal player!
DM MacT
CM VDB
B2B De Bruyne
AM Bruno
Any other more feasible options to improve our midfield?
Ole used Pogba as a DLP mainly because of his long range passingWhilst Ole is here, the 4231 is here to stay and I'm glad because I feel it's a formation that is the most balanced.
Regards our midfield, I would categorize our midfielders into the following:
Fred - Ball winner - Presses the ball superbly well and loves to get around the pitch. Unfortunately, when played as the deepest midfielder, it means he can leave gaps in behind.
Matic - Anchor man/Deep lying playmaker - More often than not, he'll hold his position as the deepest midfielder. Reads the game relatively well and will normally be the midfielder to drop in between the defence and start play. Unfortunately, he now struggles with the intensity of most games.
McTominay - Ball winner - Like Fred, when tasked with pressing and winning the ball, McTominay does a fantastic job. Whilst the two are getting better on the ball, they haven't got the ability to control games and are much suited to getting 'stuck in', rather than being 'elegant'.
Pogba - Regista - When on form, Pogba is our best passer, in my opinion, especially long-range passing. For most of Ole's tenure, Pogba has played deep in a 4231, where he has been tasked with getting on the ball and feeding the front four. Pogba can play passes most could only dream of but I find, more often than not, he is looking for the killer pass, instead of knowing when to play short, switch play, one-touch, etc.
The other day against France I said he had a good game because he did the simple but effective things. Kept the game flowing and allowed the front four to attack.
On paper, Pogba, partnered with any of the above midfielders should work because he should be that player to control the game for us but unfortunately, it hasn't gone to plan. He just feels the need to take unnecessary risks at times or try something special (maybe he's trying to justify his price). That, and defensively, we don't always look secure with Pogba playing deep. Same can be said about Van de Beek, who we saw featuring deep against Istanbul on home and away. Not solely his fault for us looking so open but I can obviously see why Ole has now opted for the tried and trusted Fred and McTominay, especially in the 'tougher' games.
What player should we be looking at?
I've always liked the look of playing a ball winner/box to box players with a deep-lying playmaker in a double pivot.
I look at some of the successful teams in the past that have played a 4231 and they have gone with a similar format.
For example,
Ajax 18/19 - De Jong (Deep-lying playmaker) - Schone (Ball winner/box to box)
Bayern Munich 19/20 - Kimmich (Deep-lying playmaker) - Goretzka (box to box)
Dortmund 14/15 - Gundogan (Deep-lying playmaker) - Bender (ball winner/box to box)
Those are just a few examples but it does seem to work well and has a nice balance to it.
Now, when I look at the current midfielders we have, in Fred and McTominay, we have two relatively good ball-winning, combative midfielders. What the lack, however, is someone who can sit deep, control the game, and allow them to use their dynamism to press up the pitch.
I don't really know who could come in and fulfill that role for us but that is the type of midfielder I feel we need.
I was desperate for us to sign Thiago when it became known he wanted to leave Bayern but unfortunately, it didn't happen.
I have always been a fan of Fabian Ruiz of Napoli. Someone who has a good passing range, comfortable on the ball, and has the ability to dictate games.
Either way, going forward, I'd like us to set up like:
Bruno/Van de Beek
DLP - Fred/McTominay
Yeah, the pivot of Fred and Pogba looked encouraging against both, Copenhagen and Sevilla. Created loads of chances going forward, and defensively, as you said, we didn't really look vulnerable.Ole used Pogba as a DLP mainly because of his long range passing
BrunoThis is what we played in the late stages of Europa. I thought it made us good in attack and we weren't always vulnerable in defense. Maybe it won't work against big sides but against low blocks I think it will hurt opponents more than us
Fred(Ball winner) Pogba(DLP)
I agree, we should have kept Andreas Periera.Remind me of the Carrick prime years when everyone was frustrated we never replaced Keano, now we are complaining about the lack of replacement for...Carrick. Wonder who is going to be missed next when he no longer plays in our midfield?
I prefer Kimmich. Can pass, can defense, discipline, high work rate and can assist. Much needed to get the best out of Bruno and the current defense.a fit Thiago clone would be ideal
He’s been out the national team since November 2019, I think it sends message that he’s hasn‘t been up to the standard since 2020.Saul Niguez
I’d take him.He’s been out the national team since November 2019, I think it sends message that he’s hasn‘t been up to the standard since 2020.
Ole used Pogba as a DLP mainly because of his long range passing
BrunoThis is what we played in the late stages of Europa. I thought it made us good in attack and we weren't always vulnerable in defense. Maybe it won't work against big sides but against low blocks I think it will hurt opponents more than us
Fred(Ball winner) Pogba(DLP)
Unfortunately that midfield especially Bruno & Pogba together with only 1 DM/ball winner in midfield will not work consistent basis.Yeah, the pivot of Fred and Pogba looked encouraging against both, Copenhagen and Sevilla. Created loads of chances going forward, and defensively, as you said, we didn't really look vulnerable.
It's a pivot I'd like to see a bit more of.