Our most important player this season: Fred?

rotherham_red

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The more I think about yesterday's game, the more I think getting Fred fit and in form will be crucial to how our season will go.

It was readily apparent that when we tried to keep any sort of possession we looked pedestrian and ordinary, and Chelsea were passing us off the park that first 25 or so minutes. However, once we got our pressing game going and were starting to win the ball high up the pitch we had them on the ropes, and that was where we got the first goal. But not every team will be like Chelsea, and we often struggled when the other team sat back last season, which is precisely what Wolves did to us twice last year. In those sort of games, Pogba needs to be further forward, but McTominay alone isn't enough of a screen for our defence. This is where Fred (at his best) comes in, with his high energy style and his short and sharp passing range. I think he'd be much more effective than Pereira as part of that double pivot which would allow Pogba to go further forward and play as the 10 which would help us to break down the low block defences much more than from the double pivot which he currently occupies.

Maybe I'm being harsh on Pereira, given that it was the first game of the season and he obviously wouldn't be at full speed, but he hasn't ever struck me as the sort of player that's needed in the double pivot. I think he needs to be closer to the attacking third and being more of a link to the attack, rather than being a water carrier.

Fred, on the other hand, has a track record in the Champions League of playing there and he can play at the high tempo that Ole likes to play. It's just a case of being calmer in possession, that's all that's really missing from him. Granted, it's the most important attribute that he's currently lacking in his short time here but right now, I can't see many, if any, alternatives.
 

Sandikan

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Win 4-0, yet a guy who couldn't even get near it, is the most important player?
 

BlueHaze

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I was wondering yesterday how it would look if Fred was on instead of Pereira but to be fair the guy got an assist and played overall well. It's up to Fred to put his shit together if he wants to be a part of our first 11. Scott, Pogba, Fred doesn't sound bad on paper but as we all saw last season Fred when given the chance was 70% of the time abyssmal. I hope he can regain his Shaktar form and come back, we need it.
 

WR10

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Nobody won more balls higher up the pitch than Fred last season. The thing is he was very misplaced as we weren’t cohesively pressing last season so he created a massive hole in the defensive shape of a team.

He was also pivotal in a few of our performances once he got into gear later on in the season.

He is 100% an upgrade on Perreira and I think the only reason he’s not being played right now is because Ole really really wants Pogba in a midfield two.

Perreira has been given games instead of him because of his dead balls and match fitness with the new system. Perreira is a garbage footballer otherwise.
 

buckooo1978

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:lol:

I've heard of players improving in their absence but when did Fred become Kante?
 

Solius

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He's a good player and can improve but most important player? He's not even top 5.
 

Random Task

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It would be nice if Fred could step it up this year, that's for sure. Periera doesn't exactly instill confidence.

I don't hold out much hope though.
 

Fosu-Mens

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It's just a case of being calmer in possession, that's all that's really missing from him.
50% of the time when he receives the ball, he has to adjust because of a bad touch. Then you get the 10% of the times when it is completely off. It is not about "being calmer".

Only reason as for why we have not tried to offload him is that some people at the club would look extremely stupid regarding his transfer.
 

KennyBurner

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The more I think about yesterday's game, the more I think getting Fred fit and in form will be crucial to how our season will go.

It was readily apparent that when we tried to keep any sort of possession we looked pedestrian and ordinary, and Chelsea were passing us off the park that first 25 or so minutes. However, once we got our pressing game going and were starting to win the ball high up the pitch we had them on the ropes, and that was where we got the first goal. But not every team will be like Chelsea, and we often struggled when the other team sat back last season, which is precisely what Wolves did to us twice last year. In those sort of games, Pogba needs to be further forward, but McTominay alone isn't enough of a screen for our defence. This is where Fred (at his best) comes in, with his high energy style and his short and sharp passing range. I think he'd be much more effective than Pereira as part of that double pivot which would allow Pogba to go further forward and play as the 10 which would help us to break down the low block defences much more than from the double pivot which he currently occupies.

Maybe I'm being harsh on Pereira, given that it was the first game of the season and he obviously wouldn't be at full speed, but he hasn't ever struck me as the sort of player that's needed in the double pivot. I think he needs to be closer to the attacking third and being more of a link to the attack, rather than being a water carrier.

Fred, on the other hand, has a track record in the Champions League of playing there and he can play at the high tempo that Ole likes to play. It's just a case of being calmer in possession, that's all that's really missing from him. Granted, it's the most important attribute that he's currently lacking in his short time here but right now, I can't see many, if any, alternatives.
Ive always been a huge fan of Fred since he joined because he is our best ground passer at the club. He also fits Ole's high pressing style with his energy. Him coming into the side would mean Pogba plays further up which is where he is most effective. i also feel now that our defense is more composed he would fit right in finding space between opposition midfielders.

All that said my biggest issue with him is his lack of balance and control at random times. Those inconsistencies happen way to often for a midfielder trying to receive the ball from defense or De gea himself. Still we do need him because our midfield options are too young, old or also inconsistent. if we can find a way to get Fred working consistently this season I feel our only weakness comes from the right winger.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Fred is 100% a very important player. We can’t expect to go a whole season without injuries, for starters. Also we can’t expect McT not to have a dodgy spell or two, considering his age. And we’re not exactly spoilt for choice in central midfield, are we?
 

Samid

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I thought this was a thread about the mascot. Genuinely forgot we had a player with the same name.
 

fps

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I can't see any evidence that he's the player Man Utd need, he's sloppy in possession, erratic in his choices, and often out of position. He made key errors in important matches repeatedly last season. Pereira certainly isn't a long term solution, but he's in possession of the shirt, got an assist, and the team won. I would understand Ole going for Matic to add some experience in uncomfortable away games (eg Wolves) but Fred adds nothing but panic from what I can see.
 

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I hope he turns it around but he's a bit of a train wreck. No composure on the ball and consistency gives the ball away in dangerous areas. It would take a huge turnaround for him to become even a regular player this season.
 

Santoryo

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Win 4-0, yet a guy who couldn't even get near it, is the most important player?
If you bother to read properly you might have felt compelled to come up with a reasonable answer than just simply dismissing the OP entirely with that answer of yours.

OP actually makes some valid points

I don't see what would bring such a silly reaction reading OP. He did lay out his argument properly and has solid points if one thinks about it. The smiley face was uncalled for.
 

rotherham_red

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Win 4-0, yet a guy who couldn't even get near it, is the most important player?
You're missing my point. We looked pedestrian in that first half because when we had the ball we didn't seem to have a clue what to do with it, and if we take that same form in to the game against Wolves with the same tactical set-up and the same players having a similar level of performance (which outside of Pogba, is most definitely possible) we'll be on the wrong end of a result to the likes of Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal etc. Fred has the attributes to do that dual-6 role well. He has played it to an accomplished enough degree in both the Champions League and for the Brazilian national team.

The other alternatives are who, exactly? Pereira? Matic? Anyone else? Garner? It's not exactly a tall order to say that Fred has it in him to force his way in to the line up. And I feel his inclusion will then allow Pogba to push further forward in to the 10 position and help us break down those defences which are compact and hard to break down, because outside of him, we have no one else who can. It's all well and good having mobile forwards, but if they aren't being fed the ball in the right areas, they are pointless.

Surely after everyone wrote off Lindelof in his first season (hell, never mind his first season, people were writing him off after Brighton away in the second game last season), people would have learnt their lessons by now with foreign players who are struggling to adjust to the Prem?
 

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He's just awful. Has no composure or spacial awareness and 0 defensive presence. I don't get why he keeps trying to do that heavy first touch into space as if he is going to get time to run onto it in this league. Has some neat technique at time but his uses are few.
 

rotherham_red

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He's a good player and can improve but most important player? He's not even top 5.
His importance would be in the fact he would free up one of our most talented players to do what he does best and cause damage in the opposition areas.

The alternatives in that role just aren't anywhere near adequate enough. McTominay and Fred would be a massively high energy double pivot who would collectively cover every blade of grass in front of the defence. Pereira, as much as I do like him, just isn't that sort of player and when he's on the ball his physical limitations are counterproductive to what the team wants to achieve. He was fine off the ball, but on it, he was a liability in defensive areas.
 

fps

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You're missing my point. We looked pedestrian in that first half because when we had the ball we didn't seem to have a clue what to do with it, and if we take that same form in to the game against Wolves with the same tactical set-up and the same players having a similar level of performance (which outside of Pogba, is most definitely possible) we'll be on the wrong end of a result to the likes of Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal etc. Fred has the attributes to do that dual-6 role well. He has played it to an accomplished enough degree in both the Champions League and for the Brazilian national team.

The other alternatives are who, exactly? Pereira? Matic? Anyone else? Garner? It's not exactly a tall order to say that Fred has it in him to force his way in to the line up. And I feel his inclusion will then allow Pogba to push further forward in to the 10 position and help us break down those defences which are compact and hard to break down, because outside of him, we have no one else who can. It's all well and good having mobile forwards, but if they aren't being fed the ball in the right areas, they are pointless.

Surely after everyone wrote off Lindelof in his first season (hell, never mind his first season, people were writing him off after Brighton away in the second game last season), people would have learnt their lessons by now with foreign players who are struggling to adjust to the Prem?
Well, Pogba's most devastating work yesterday was actually getting the ball fairly deep and then driving through or pinging passes to the attack over longer distances. That was something which actually worked, in his deployment deeper. While I agree I'd like to see Pogba in the 10 position at times over the season, the facts are the facts, and Fred has shown zero sign of being able to do the things we're discussing to the quality required. In fact, I believe he's a liability nearer to United's goal, so if anything I'd rather see him in the 10 than anywhere else because he won't be endangering the team.
 

Santoryo

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Ive always been a huge fan of Fred since he joined because he is our best ground passer at the club. He also fits Ole's high pressing style with his energy. Him coming into the side would mean Pogba plays further up which is where he is most effective. i also feel now that our defense is more composed he would fit right in finding space between opposition midfielders.

All that said my biggest issue with him is his lack of balance and control at random times. Those inconsistencies happen way to often for a midfielder trying to receive the ball from defense or De gea himself. Still we do need him because our midfield options are too young, old or also inconsistent. if we can find a way to get Fred working consistently this season I feel our only weakness comes from the right winger.
This is something interesting because Mourinho mentioned something similar last season. His point was that with a stable and solid defense Fred would be a viable option in midfield. It was just hard to trust him with a dodgy defense while he himself could be careless in midfield which was always recipe for double disaster.
 

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I think certain people on here struggle to understand the difference between a #10 and the furthest forward midfielder. Pogba playing as the furthest forward in a 4-3-3 is great, but Pogba is not a #10, and it would be an absolute waste to play him there, especially in Ole's system.

So there's no question of Fred playing as part of the double pivot to allow Pogba to play as a 10. Fred will play when Pogba/McTominay are unavailable or out of form, but all 3 won't play together in Ole's current formation. Of course if we change our formation to a 4-3-3 over the course of the season then that's a different story, but at present no.
 

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The problem with Fred is his unreliability. There is nothing solid about his game, and he fluctuates between too many highs and lows during games. He's rash with poor positioning, non-existent game reading, and doesn't protect the ball anywhere enough. He's got no problem applying pressure and winning the ball, getting on the ball and advancing play though, and he's
good when everything is happening in front of him. I'd have him next to a solid defensive midfielder and a proper attacking midfielder, but we've got neither. Pogba is not an attacking midfielder, and McTominay is just meh.
Pogba's backup is probably the best role for him right now.
 

Santoryo

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You're missing my point. We looked pedestrian in that first half because when we had the ball we didn't seem to have a clue what to do with it, and if we take that same form in to the game against Wolves with the same tactical set-up and the same players having a similar level of performance (which outside of Pogba, is most definitely possible) we'll be on the wrong end of a result to the likes of Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Arsenal etc. Fred has the attributes to do that dual-6 role well. He has played it to an accomplished enough degree in both the Champions League and for the Brazilian national team.

The other alternatives are who, exactly? Pereira? Matic? Anyone else? Garner? It's not exactly a tall order to say that Fred has it in him to force his way in to the line up. And I feel his inclusion will then allow Pogba to push further forward in to the 10 position and help us break down those defences which are compact and hard to break down, because outside of him, we have no one else who can. It's all well and good having mobile forwards, but if they aren't being fed the ball in the right areas, they are pointless.

Surely after everyone wrote off Lindelof in his first season (hell, never mind his first season, people were writing him off after Brighton away in the second game last season), people would have learnt their lessons by now with foreign players who are struggling to adjust to the Prem?
Pretty much. You'd think people would lay off a bit and stop all these impatient behaviors and temptations to quickly make firm conclusions about players just getting in new leagues.

Fred has been with us for just 1 year, coming from a different league. Understandably he's finding it hard to adjust(something even Ole remarked). Given enough time and use to there is always the possibility of him coming good and finally delivering. After all he's only been here with us for a mere year.

In theory he has the potential of doing what you mentioned in the OP, it's just a matter of whether he could manage to put everything together and rid himself of his sloppy okays and gain some composure because it's critical in midfield.

It's crucial we get him performing, absolutely.
I also feel the same. He'd clearly shown from Shaktar and in the CL that he's capable of playing at a very high level. This is also supported by the fact that he was a sought after midfielder prior to coming to us. Even Pep was after him.
 

fps

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Assuming he has the ability and gets settled in Manchester, could he not be earmarked for the Pereira/10 role? If not, why not? He seems to have acceleration on him, the ability to pick a pass, hit a shot.
 

Superunknown

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I think certain people on here struggle to understand the difference between a #10 and the furthest forward midfielder. Pogba playing as the furthest forward in a 4-3-3 is great, but Pogba is not a #10, and it would be an absolute waste to play him there, especially in Ole's system.

So there's no question of Fred playing as part of the double pivot to allow Pogba to play as a 10. Fred will play when Pogba/McTominay are unavailable or out of form, but all 3 won't play together in Ole's current formation. Of course if we change our formation to a 4-3-3 over the course of the season then that's a different story, but at present no.
How do you see a 4-3-3 with Fred, McTominay and Pogba working out. I wouldn't be opposed to that midfield, but I guess we may not see it just yet partly because we're still trying to define what Fred's role is within the side.

Do I think he's our most important player this season? Honestly, no, no I don't. I think Maguire keeping our defence tight and Pogba creating in midfield will be our two most important players and I think we will miss one or both of these if they were out injured. There's question marks whether we missed Fred yesterday because there's no guarantee that he would have been that ball-winner or the one keeping things ticking in midfield. However, Pogba assisted two goals yesterday, so we would have missed him for sure.

I do think that Fred does deserve a chance within the side, and Pereira will most likely be the one to miss out, unless there's an injury.
 
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Offsideagain

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Remember that Fred was playing in a Jose team last season for the most part. He was settling in but I agree that he didn’t seem to have the talent to control the ball or his tackles. I’m not sure what his role will be when he’s fit. If he has settled then let’s hope he will relax a bit and play as he can.
 

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Nobody won more balls higher up the pitch than Fred last season. The thing is he was very misplaced as we weren’t cohesively pressing last season so he created a massive hole in the defensive shape of a team.

He was also pivotal in a few of our performances once he got into gear later on in the season.

He is 100% an upgrade on Perreira and I think the only reason he’s not being played right now is because Ole really really wants Pogba in a midfield two.

Perreira has been given games instead of him because of his dead balls and match fitness with the new system. Perreira is a garbage footballer otherwise.
I was thinking about that after the game yesterday, the result was very misleading in a sense, but at the same time showed how lethal we can be.
Lingard and Pereira (apart from the assist) for me were the glaring points of weakness. Lingard was anonymous and Pereira wasn't having a good game. Goes to show how out of depth we are, they shouldn't be starters and there were plenty of names for those spots in the market.

Really hope Fred comes to light and fills that spot, we are very much in need of quality.

I think in the future, it's going to bite us in the ass.
 

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If we can find a way to fit the good version of Fred in to the starting line up I think he would have a huge impact on our pressing ability as he from what I’ve seen looks fantastic at getting at people and just being annoying. He’s also quite quick to release the ball, work passing triangles and move to receive it again. It’s just if we get good Fred would you move Pogba to the 10 or move Lingard out wide or something.
 

Carl

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Short sharp passing? Fred? Wut?
 

dannyrhinos89

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I’d say Alexis is far more important if we can get him anywhere near the arsenal form Sanchez then it’ll be brilliant for our front line.
 

ValenciaRocks

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The more I think about yesterday's game, the more I think getting Fred fit and in form will be crucial to how our season will go.

It was readily apparent that when we tried to keep any sort of possession we looked pedestrian and ordinary, and Chelsea were passing us off the park that first 25 or so minutes. However, once we got our pressing game going and were starting to win the ball high up the pitch we had them on the ropes, and that was where we got the first goal. But not every team will be like Chelsea, and we often struggled when the other team sat back last season, which is precisely what Wolves did to us twice last year. In those sort of games, Pogba needs to be further forward, but McTominay alone isn't enough of a screen for our defence. This is where Fred (at his best) comes in, with his high energy style and his short and sharp passing range. I think he'd be much more effective than Pereira as part of that double pivot which would allow Pogba to go further forward and play as the 10 which would help us to break down the low block defences much more than from the double pivot which he currently occupies.

Maybe I'm being harsh on Pereira, given that it was the first game of the season and he obviously wouldn't be at full speed, but he hasn't ever struck me as the sort of player that's needed in the double pivot. I think he needs to be closer to the attacking third and being more of a link to the attack, rather than being a water carrier.

Fred, on the other hand, has a track record in the Champions League of playing there and he can play at the high tempo that Ole likes to play. It's just a case of being calmer in possession, that's all that's really missing from him. Granted, it's the most important attribute that he's currently lacking in his short time here but right now, I can't see many, if any, alternatives.
I completely understand what you are saying here... Fred will definitely have an important role to play at some stage this season. To label him as the most important player is a bit daft though if not controversial.

If Fred is to play it will be in a midfield 3. Pogba is much better when he’s got the whole pitch in front of him so deploying him as a AM could work but wouldn’t get the best out of him.

But in games where we are facing teams that sit deep and we need more possession he could be a very useful box to box player. He definitely has the energy levels to do this and as someone mentioned earlier he is one of the better ground passers we have.

The new style we have with the high press will suit Fred too. Especially now we have reinforcements across the backline.