Our most important player this season: Fred?

keener

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I'm with most of the Cafe here, I can't see Fred as our most important player. The holding position IS the one we most needed help with.... so now we're playing 2 pivot midfielders.. I'd prefer 433 with only 1 holding player like Kante (although I've been told by a poster on the Cafe that Kante isn't a defensive mid). Fred hasn't shown the qualities of a United level performer on any consistent basis and I view him no different than any of about 6-8 players that are on the fringe and must come in and really prove themselves with the limited minutes they're able to get in cup games and injury fill in games.
 

Santoryo

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I look forward to seeing this thread being bumped every time Fred has half a decent game and fans to create some echo chamber whereby we will convince ourselves that Fred indeed is the most important player for us.
I don't get posts like these. Wouldn't you rather people keep bumping this thread because it means he'd step up which we do really need right now. Or you'd rather he remain mediocre so you can feel vindicated in how you told people he's crap etc.

Is it about what best for United or scoring points? And if it's the case it'd rather be in a case where a player is proving people wrong about him sucking because that means it benefitting the team and our campaign.
 

RedCurry

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I don't get posts like these. Wouldn't you rather people keep bumping this thread because it means he'd step up which we do really need right now. Or you'd rather he remain mediocre so you can feel vindicated in how you told people he's crap etc.

Is it about what best for United or scoring points? And if it's the case it'd rather be in a case where a player is proving people wrong about him sucking because that means it benefitting the team and our campaign.
I'd rather we upgrade on mediocre players than convince ourselves that mediocre players are going to be our most important players of the season and then continue to keep giving them a chance to prove themselves for many seasons until they are unsellable.
 

Cloud7

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This is certainly a hot take :lol:
 

P-Nut

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Too early to say, and also it will depend on opponents and style of play


Back 5 (including De Gea) picks itself, and Rashford, Martial, Pogba and Mctominay do too, but spots 5 and 6 in the front 6 really are a complete clusterfeck:

Lingard in big games or against teams that will press high and open up space seems like the obvious choice for 5 but he's bad in games where we're breaking down a team sitting back, and everyone else is basically unproven (James, Greenwood, Pereira, Gomes, Garner) or washed (Mata, Matic) or having an existential crisis (Fred).

The moves we did make in the summer look great, but the two glaring weaknesses we didn't address were a decent CM to backup McTominay and Pogba (selling Matic for peanuts and taking Everton's offer for Rojo and getting off their wages would have completely covered the cost of a highly rated 30M midfielder in his mid 20s from France or Germany like Everton did in signing Gbamin), and then a RW or #10 who can press but has real quality, leaving the 6th spot to rotate between James when we want a winger, Lingard a pressing #10, Mata a creative #10 and Greenwood another goal threat.
Yeah I agree with all of that, but I don't think putting Fred into the CM position and pushing Pogba to 10 would be better than Pogba at CM and the right 10 for the opposition selected.

In other words, McTominay Pogba Gomes (least proven 10) looks stronger than McTominay Fred Pogba, whilst playing 4231.
 

Santoryo

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The "if" is more of Fred replicating his performances for Shaktar and some games especially against PSG. You're not playing football at that level so I don't get why you're trying to be petty and contrary to what you may believe Fred is actually a good midfielder who has proved it at the champions league and he's just struggling to settle in, in a new culture and environment.

What happened to giving players time?
As time went on I've learned to simply ignore these hyperbolic and nonsensical posts from some posters. And the post you reply to was certainly one of them.

Unfortunately not everyone is worth arguing, debating with.
 

Santoryo

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I don't get everyone's obsession with moving Pogba further forward.

Sure when he first came I believed he'd be more productive higher up the pitch, but whenever he has played at 10 he seems to over complicate things and get too flashy.

He's got license to get forward at times even whilst starting deeper, and I see no starting 11 we can put out that is stronger with him at CAM than at CM.
The real conundrum is why people keep thinking that Pigba playing in a 3 midfield means he's playing as a 10. Adding Fred or a third midfield doesn't mean Pogba is being played as a number 10. That argument has to die.
 

BlackBen

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As time went on I've learned to simply ignore these hyperbolic and nonsensical posts from some posters. And the post you reply to was certainly one of them.

Unfortunately not everyone is worth arguing, debating with.
Agreed.
 

Santoryo

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Which is very unlikely.
I've seen posts claim that Lindelolf would never amount to a proper footballer. Seen posts years ago go on about how DeGea would never step up for United in a million year(G Neville being 1 of the most vocal anti DeGea at the time in the media). So I'm not gonna sit here pretending to know the future and make absolute and definitive statements.

What we know though is that Fred prior to coming here was a proven proper midfield player with experience in high level competition such as the CL. A player that was sought after by many top teams and managers including Pep Guardiola.

Fred himself has shown glimpses but he's rather been inconsistent with us. And unlike load in here who like showing their impatience, I'd rather still stick with him and see what he can do if and when given time to adapt and a proper platform. Seems like some people including yourself forget that he's only been with us a year, so writing him off right now is quite ridiculous.
 

sammsky1

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Fred will have a much better season, he showed promise towards the end of last, rap in the PSG game. He needs to enhance his confidence as well as become super fit.

Perhaps the biggest issue was he joined us as his first PL team, would have been better for him to join a less hyped team team before he made the jump into a top aspiration team.

Am hoping he follows the Lindelof type trajectory in terms of adjustment as the talent is surely there. He won’t be the last player to take time to adjust to life at Manchester United!
 

Garebo

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How could he be the most important player, when he is even behind Pereira in the pecking order?
 

Fosu-Mens

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Fred | 2019/20 Performances
I've seen posts claim that Lindelolf would never amount to a proper footballer. Seen posts years ago go on about how DeGea would never step up for United in a million year(G Neville being 1 of the most vocal anti DeGea at the time in the media). So I'm not gonna sit here pretending to know the future and make absolute and definitive statements.

What we know though is that Fred prior to coming here was a proven proper midfield player with experience in high level competition such as the CL. A player that was sought after by many top teams and managers including Pep Guardiola.

Fred himself has shown glimpses but he's rather been inconsistent with us. And unlike load in here who like showing their impatience, I'd rather still stick with him and see what he can do if and when given time to adapt and a proper platform. Seems like some people including yourself forget that he's only been with us a year, so writing him off right now is quite ridiculous.
We all hope he can make it, it is not that. The issue is that he is inconsistent in every technical aspect of the game. From first touch to passing. And this is not something that is dependent on adjustment, it is a fundamental issue with his ability or lack there of. And is why i think that this is rather unlikely for him to suddenly improve on something that is built over years handling the ball.
 

svn

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The real conundrum is why people keep thinking that Pigba playing in a 3 midfield means he's playing as a 10. Adding Fred or a third midfield doesn't mean Pogba is being played as a number 10. That argument has to die.
Exactly. Anything that releases Pogba from any defensive duties is a positive, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean he has to play as a 10, but he can't be relied upon to track opposition players and win the ball back.
 

fps

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What we know though is that Fred prior to coming here was a proven proper midfield player with experience in high level competition such as the CL. A player that was sought after by many top teams and managers including Pep Guardiola.
He played in Ukraine, he is not proven.
 

gza the genius

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I think people are missing the point. Our midfield is weak with Pogba in a more defensive role and we need Pogba to play higher up the pitch like he did when Ole initially took over.

So what I think the OP is implying is that if Fred can up his game and turn in consistent performances for us, he and McT in a double pivot would free up Pogba from defensive duties and enable him to create and score more.
This. A lot of people are interpreting important to mean best. I think the OP is just saying for us to be successful this season we need him to perform.
 

BlackBen

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This. A lot of people are interpreting important to mean best. I think the OP is just saying for us to be successful this season we need him to perform.
Agreed. I really hope Fred finds his feet this season cos there's a really good player in there.
 

Gasolin

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The one game that showed Fred possibilities was the PSG away game where he played with McT and he managed to do a lot of interception that I thought were good, disruptive of PSG's offensive game and allowed us to get the ball back.

During that game, it was a bit a phased approach. He was just defending first, then starting having some variety of passes (on the ground or above the opponent) side ways, and finally, he attempted even forward passes for when another player was running behind the PSG defense.

I suppose that if Ole can work that out with him, Pogba could go run for the box and add an extra dimension to our game.
 

P-Nut

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The real conundrum is why people keep thinking that Pigba playing in a 3 midfield means he's playing as a 10. Adding Fred or a third midfield doesn't mean Pogba is being played as a number 10. That argument has to die.
We seems set on the 4231 though, even changing our youth teams to play 4231 now as well compared to 433 last season.
 

NoPace

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Yeah I agree with all of that, but I don't think putting Fred into the CM position and pushing Pogba to 10 would be better than Pogba at CM and the right 10 for the opposition selected.

In other words, McTominay Pogba Gomes (least proven 10) looks stronger than McTominay Fred Pogba, whilst playing 4231.
That may well be true. I'm not sure there's a huge difference between any of the options, really, which is the problem.
 

Tom Cato

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If we get PSG Fred as a baseline and he only improves from there, Fred will be one of the bright lights of this season.

Who knows? He's certainly motivated and looks willing to lay it all out for the team and the manager. (Ole allowed him time off during pre-season to get married, Fred has expressed gratitude for that aswell as how Ole has spoken to him, adressed him in training and listened to him when he talks).

Fred is a very likeable happy guy, I am certainly rooting for him.
 

Andycoleno9

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Well, i think that Fred is what this team need. Mct is good because of his defensive duties but we need another player who is good on the ball in midfield. Pereira, Pogba and Fred i want to see in future.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Er... nah.

Imagine opposition players talking before the game...

"Ok, who've we gotta deal with today?"

"Well, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, that new lad - James... and we gotta get passed Maguire, Lindelof, AWB and de Gea if we wanna score..."

"But no Fred!? Phew!".
 

gza the genius

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Er... nah.

Imagine opposition players talking before the game...

"Ok, who've we gotta deal with today?"

"Well, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, that new lad - James... and we gotta get passed Maguire, Lindelof, AWB and de Gea if we wanna score..."

"But no Fred!? Phew!".
That's not the point the OP is trying to make. As of right now Pogba is really the only sure thing in terms of quality in center mid (he has his ups and downs obviously but I think everyone can agree he's the one genuinely quality midfielder we have). If we are going to have any success at all then we need one of the other mids to step up and help Pogba out, that seems pretty obvious. Fred playing well can make us a functional team so in that sense he is extremely important to our season. I think that's really all the OP is saying, which is quite different from Fred is going to be our best player or a player other teams fear.
 

SaintMuppet

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We could certainly do with him finding some form. Likewise Sanchez.

It would be like suddenly getting 2 new players which we really need.

No breath holding here though I’m happy to cross my fingers. We are a bit of a mess in midfield and a couple of injuries from absolute disaster.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
That's not the point the OP is trying to make. As of right now Pogba is really the only sure thing in terms of quality in center mid (he has his ups and downs obviously but I think everyone can agree he's the one genuinely quality midfielder we have). If we are going to have any success at all then we need one of the other mids to step up and help Pogba out, that seems pretty obvious. Fred playing well can make us a functional team so in that sense he is extremely important to our season. I think that's really all the OP is saying, which is quite different from Fred is going to be our best player or a player other teams fear.
Yeah, I get that, and I'm not suggesting that there's no merit in OP's sentiment that Fred could play an important role within the squad this season...

But to suggest that Fred is, or could be our single most important player...? Cmon.

A midfield of McTom, Matic and Pogba is fine, as long as Matic's role is kept very simple and straight forward.
 

RedRonaldo

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I’d give Fred another year to prove himself here, but to suggest he will be our most important player this season, is, let’s just say, a bit too unrealistic.

I mean, he has been rather shite so far, a flop since he joined us 1 year ago. Think about someone like Bailey, if someone suggest Bailey will be more important than Maguire this season, surely that would raise a few disagreement.

Let’s just at least wait until he get a few good games to say something like this, at least that will be more relevant.
 
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Walters_19_MuFc

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For this to happen, it would need Pogba to play further up as you said, which im not sure Ole looks like he wants to do now. Mainly because Pogba is not an out and out number 10 and although he wasn't his best in possession yesterday, we saw his two main attributes from deep that led to two of our goals - long range passes and driving with the ball.

Fred has shown he can do a good job in a double pivot, more notably against PSG, but he won't be displacing Pogba anytime soon.

I'd expect him to come in for cup games next to Matic in the double pivot.
 

chromepaxos

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The real conundrum is why people keep thinking that Pigba playing in a 3 midfield means he's playing as a 10. Adding Fred or a third midfield doesn't mean Pogba is being played as a number 10. That argument has to die.
That argument won't die because we seem to be committed to playing 4:2:3:1. We have played that formation in every pre-season game and, my understanding is that the reserve teams are playing the same way.

And in a 4:2:3:1, if you put Fred next to McTominay, that puts Pogba in at #10, however much you stamp your feet.
 

thomas porter

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I agree that Fred has a very important role to play for us this season. He us much more defensively sound than Pogba and is very good at winning the ball back. Imo his best football has come next to McTominay and I think a midfield with a double pivot of Mctominay and Fred with Pogba more advanced could work well in big 6 games and games at home where we expect teams to bunker.

As many on here have said the most important factor in making this work is that Fred improves his passing and ability to keep possession especially in our own half.
 

Tarrou

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he could be super important if we have any injuries or loss of form in midfield, which seems highly likely

but you could phrase it as our lack of midfield depth will be really important, and it would be a more accurate reflection

because Fred hasn't shown he's up to the task, yet
 

Tony247

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Fred is THE key after winter break. If he buckles up and performs when times comes for him to play then we are saved, if not then we will be in deep shite.
 

keener

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I'd also like to see

Gomes
Pogba - McTominay



Can fred become a great part of the lineup? Yes, IF he could become our 2nd pivot alongside McTom.... and move Pogba forward, that'd be fantastic... But this is a stretch.