Our new approach to signings - for or against?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by sideshow_bob, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Jun 30, 2019
    #81

    KevinJoh Full Member

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    It looks to me that Ole want to change the dressing room atmosphere, and on pitch attitude, more than to bring new stars that will bring more problems in already bad atmosphere. The problem with the team is that you can't sell deadwood, and even bigger that you can't have short term success. So, bringing young lads with a space to grow and be much better in a 2-3 years, is a good sign. One top player per window, and fixing holes in the team (RB, RW, CM) with players with right attitude is probably better than to gamble with stars that probably won't deliver. Look at Alexis, or Pogba, or Lukaku, or Mata. All brought some quality, but not what you expected for the money invested. On the other hand look at Fred or Lindelof who are from abroad, and needed one year at least to adapt. Not sure we have that one year now, so I guess, Ole wants kids from the league that won't need a year to adapt to PL. Not sure if the choice of the players is the right one (James, Longstaff, Rice,...), we will see if scouts did their job, but the direction is OK for me. Certainly, it is better bet than bringing players like Rodriguez or Dybala, that won't guarantee anything and would be paid in gold so you can't sell them later.
  2. Jun 30, 2019
    #82

    JK-27 Full Member

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    Our new approach is youth but, as others have noted, it's not exactly world class youth talent. It seems to be buy young promising players in the hope they can be developed in to world class talent.

    I don't have a huge problem with that approach but what it tells me is that a) We've given up on competing for the title anytime soon b) it's a buy low sell high business policy c) The kind of signings we're making aren't the kind of signings that will help us attract bigger, more established players to our ranks d) it's a punt at best, there's no gaurantee Ole/our coaching staff we'll be able to improve the players we've bought so 2-3 years from now we could still be in the same position we are today - a squad full of players who are not Utd quality

    There is no real plan at our club, we are seriously paying for the lack of movement in appointing a DoF
  3. Jun 30, 2019
    #83

    Shaidabdullah Hussain New Member

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    We’ve been heavily linked with De Ligt, Fernandes and Ben Yedder.

    Forgive me If I’m wrong but they’re about as British as Sam Allardyce is Vietnamese, no?

    Several of them may move to other clubs due to wanting champions league football, which we are crucially lacking. Saying we are only looking at British players out of some xenophobic agenda is an odd narrative IMO
  4. Jun 30, 2019
    #84

    SapperBRed75 Full Member

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    Where's the DOF?
    Too early to say. Bringing in young,
    promising players is positive but more to do in recruitment, building a balanced, driven team and then coaching them into an effective system.
  5. Jun 30, 2019
    #85

    diarm Full Member

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    Who of our current established British players are good enough to play for this club?

    I'd argue that Young, Smalling, Jones and Lingard are not. We're all talking about the clear out we need but you also need to meet homegrown quotas so we have to sign British players to allow us get rid of the deadweight.

    Longstaff is getting stupid abuse on the board all week from people who've seen feck all of him. James is rapid, direct and will look to make the runs behind defenders that Martial won't or Lingard/Mata can't. When players like Fernandinho and Bernardo at City, or Henderson and Milner at Liverpool, are so important to successful sides, I can't understand how people don't recognise the need for the right characters and personalities rather than just always wanting the fanciest, most expensive flavour of the month available.
  6. Jun 30, 2019
    #86

    Ace of Spades Full Member

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    There is nothing to suggest we are only buying British players. We are linked to some, we are also linked to players from other nationalities. The only thing that looks certain is that we no longer are looking for any short term fixes and look to be planning for a long term future.
  7. Jun 30, 2019
    #87

    JK-27 Full Member

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    Says a lot about where we are when a mid-table Championship player is seen as a the kind of player were desperate for.
  8. Jun 30, 2019
    #88

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    The one thing I like about signing young British players is if they work out, chances are you won't have to worry about them having their head turned else where. Players like James and AWB wouldn't have grown up dreaming of playing for Real Madrid or Barca. They will see United as the pinnical of football and likely be with us for years to come, as long as they are good enough. Mean while, signing young foreign players may like at United as a stepping stone before making their dream move to another European giant. Imagine if CR7 was English. He would likely still be playing at United to this day...
  9. Jun 30, 2019
    #89

    Greck Full Member

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    True but the flip side of that is England doesn't produce CR7s.
  10. Jun 30, 2019
    #90

    RedNed77 Full Member

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    I'm curious as to how you ended up a United fan TBH.
  11. Jun 30, 2019
    #91

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    So far so good I'd say but ultimately how our team will shape up at the start of the season and how we'll play will be the determining factors for me.
  12. Jun 30, 2019
    #92

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Yea only produce the likes of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Lampard, Gerard, Rooney, Ferdinand etc. Who wants any of them though.
  13. Jun 30, 2019
    #93

    Von Mistelroum Full Member

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    I've no issues with buying the best young British talent, but the speed of our recruitment is painful and everything seems amateurish . It also feels a bit like specifically recruiting based on nationality is going to mean not going for the best players we could reasonably afford. I recall when Ole was at a certain other English club, he recruited pretty poorly and I'm thinking we might be looking to consolidate mid table at this rate...
  14. Jun 30, 2019
    #94

    Eric's Seagull Full Member

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    Would be happy to buy British players, as long as they are decent, hungry players, who want to play for club rather than than players who come here just for money. Although I understand the premium we would pay for young British players.

    I think the important thing is to have players who really want to play for the club and would give anything to wear this shirt and it doesn't matter if they are British or foreign as long as they have the desire to play for us.

    One advantage with signing British players is that they are already acclimatised to the country where as if we bought someone from abroad it might take them a certain amount of time to adjust or worse they might not adjust at all due to things like weather or they may find they just don't like the country after they move here etc
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  15. Jun 30, 2019
    #95

    lysglimt Full Member

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    Yeah especially as Ole would love to make Lindelöf, Pogba and DeGea the core of our future side.
  16. Jun 30, 2019
    #96

    Greck Full Member

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    Those are most of the best English prospects over a now 27 year span. Trust me I'd love another Co92 but the region isn't producing that kind of player with any sort of regularity to justify concentrating our efforts on it.
  17. Jun 30, 2019
    #97

    matt23 Full Member

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    Maybe we're targeting young English/British players because of a noticeable improvement in standard of such players - you know, as opposed to Solskjaer being some closet member of the EDL, suddenly deciding he can't stand Johnny foreigner... You never know.
  18. Jun 30, 2019
    #98

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    The region has just won every youth tournament out there and completely dominated the youth Champions League so yes they are clearly producing.
  19. Jun 30, 2019
    #99

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    How do we need fresh squad options? We need better players to improve our first 11.
  20. Jun 30, 2019

    Santos J Full Member

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    Because if not then our bench options would be players like Pereira, McT, Mata, Sanchez. Hardly difference makers
  21. Jun 30, 2019

    Rifer Full Member

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    For not against.

    For -- sort-of Promising Youngsters.
    Against -- only British, no other nationality.

    Fresh and youth players are always welcome. Characters/personality of the player has to be considered though, as does how promising are their talents. I don't care about nationality but I find targeting young British players to be reasonable = British (and Irish) players are most probably more likely to stay than players from other nationality who may be more easily leaving and engineer a move to other top clubs especially other leagues. Obviously not every players mind. The younger they are at a club, maybe the "loyalty" factor will come into play (I mean looking at many examples among the top clubs eg. United, Liverpool, Spurs, except the few big profile players who are pushed out of the club) and the longer they will stay with the club. I think if a player stay with the club ever since they're young and/or through the youth, may have similar loyalty effects.

    Players Ratio ?
    Maybe better to have a rough ratio of 7 (British-Irish): 3 (Other Nationalities), well idk I mean we did got a lot of awesome different nationality players (legends even). Should never ignore promising youngsters from different nationalities or we will miss out plenty of potential gems. Better ratio maybe 8 BI : 2 ON, or, 6 BI : 4 ON.

    No problem with the 'transfer-in' approach.
    The problems are with the 'transfer-out' approach/handling -- if the British players are not working out, quickly remove 'em and replace with another one. Have to always make sure the squad is always freshen up with the British-Irish players being quality players. Quality matters the most. This club should not be a charity.
  22. Jun 30, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Don't believe its xenophobic at all, just that we've always had a strong British / English spine at times of success. As a club we are steeped in sentimentality and tradition, that's what we are.

    As for financial sense, we've spent mind boggling sums on foreign imports as well. Pogba a world record, Martial a record for a teenager, Lukaku in the top 5 most expensive PL transfers.

    Money in football has just gone insane, so buying homegrown or foreign makes little difference I feel.
  23. Jun 30, 2019

    jackal&hyde Full Member

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    I've read reports about this supposed Brexit like approach, but as of right now, i am very happy with the business done. British or not, AWB was an outstanding player last season and James is a gamble but does seem to posses phenomenal pace and we didn't break the bank for him.

    I am slightly worried of the links with ridiculously overpriced players like Maguire, Rice or Maddison for whom i think there are better options but at the same time we are also linked with Bruno Fernandes. So at the end of the day we will have to wait and see.

    Wouldn't mind Sancho for 90-100mil, but Maguire for more then 50 gives me a bad feeling. Time will tell.

    EDIT: Also, last season at times we had in the starting 11 Young, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Mctominay, Lingard and Rashford. We have plenty of a British core, they just aren't very good players most of them.
  24. Jun 30, 2019

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    It's just paper talk. Nobody is buying exclusively British players.

    AWB had a great season, probably one of the best right backs in the league, we're desperate for a right back. If we can get premier league proven - it's only a benefit.

    James is one for the future i assume. Clearly Giggs felt he was a decent player and put in a good word too. He's seen him train - this is how these things go. Remember how good Dele Alli looked when MK Dons kicked our ass? Spurs took a risk and it's paid off for them. Longstaff would probably be a similar risk. It might fall flat, but we did spunk money on plenty of established international players who were also risks. Fred, Darmian, Depay - could have been excellent for us, turns out they weren't. Sometimes even sure fire things don't work out.

    We wanted Sancho - he doesn't want to leave. We want De Ligt, he's holding out for the best possible offer. When you have no CL football, an inexperienced manager, talk of instability in the club hierarchy, no titles in 6 years, you have to cast your net wider. We won't always win against the big clubs who are our usual competition for signings. We need to take a few risks now.
  25. Jun 30, 2019

    Tango80 Full Member

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    I like it.

    People are moaning that this means we've given up on winning the title for the next couple of seasons. This is not a bad thing at all. Buying players with the indication of winning the title in the next couple of seasons is exactly where we've gone wrong, we've tried to cut corners.

    In fact, I'd go as far as say that the business done so far this summer indicates more of a plan than the last three summers have combined. I'll support Man Utd but at the minute I struggle to name a favourite player because I don't particularly like any of them. I'd quite like that to change over anything.
  26. Jun 30, 2019

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    Anyone know when Man United last fielded an all British XI?
  27. Jun 30, 2019

    RedCurry Full Member

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    The two players we’ve actually signed, I like their profile.

    A bunch of other players though, I am really not sure. The likes of Longstaff, Ben Yedder have been linked with us but I feel like we might be taking one too many gambles in the same transfer window.
  28. Jun 30, 2019

    Rista Full Member

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    How is it not a bad thing? Throwing money at the best possible players they could acquire along with getting the best manager possible is what got City where they are today. We just spent money poorly and had some questionable managerial appointments. It doesn't mean the entire approach is wrong and that we should aim to challenge in 5 years time.
  29. Jun 30, 2019

    baskinginthesun Full Member

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    Yeah, that Spanish player from Sociedad, I think. I thought we also signed some youth team player from the Dutch league, iirc.
  30. Jun 30, 2019

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    Nobody does. There is only one CR7. But there are plenty of talented players out there. Do you think the young up and coming Spanish players dream of a move to Old Trafford or Real Madrid/Barca??? A player like James and AWB on the other hand, more likely than not, will want to stay here as long as they can...
  31. Jun 30, 2019

    NoLogo Full Member

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    As long as they are good enough who cares which nation they are from? I also feel like there has been a real quality increase when it comes to the current young English player generation. So I guess if there ever was a time to buy young English players to create the core of the team it's now.
  32. Jun 30, 2019

    manesh New Member

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    Buying James could be a bit of genius.
    Not because he will be a world beater (Which he may be one day) but because it should motivate the established dead wood a choice:
    Pull socks up and start delivering or be replaced by a championship player who has talent but not a sure fire success.

    Sorry if this has been said before, but I like the policy of buy them young and mould the team.
  33. Jul 2, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

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    The one thing I've got against this buying home-grown players or players used to the Prem is that they cost 2x 3x what they'd cost if they were playing in any other league. So the "operating in an inflated market" is pretty much our own choice.
  34. Jul 2, 2019

    Dve New Member

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    Some would call that cherry picking.

    Koulibaly, Olmo, Yedder, Fernandes, Diop, Aubameyang, Rakitic etc.

    Though, Solskjær himself has mentioned his preferences for more "home" ground players.

    I hope this is because: There´s greater chance that a British player, coming to Manchester United when young, will stay at United for a long time and become a real club player. While a Portuguese, e.g. will have that bound to Southern European leagues and nice weather.

    And I hope it´s not because: Solskjær wants to copy the 90-ties.
  35. Jul 3, 2019

    Jezpeza Full Member

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    Regardless of nationality, ive seen us follow the pattern of the arsenal and liverpool sides of about 2005-2017.

    Bloated with mediocre/poor mercenaries who dont identify with the club and lack either the skill to improve or the desire to perform.

    We always had tenacity and work-rate under Ferguson. And the players that didn't have that had star quality (berbatov springs to mind). The problem with many of our recent big buys is they arrive here thinking they are the bollocks and then stop performing. Sanchez, di maria, mikhtaryan, falcao, fred, matic all look/looked like dross out there. There must be a reason behind that sharp decline and i think it must be mentality.

    Then Theres also been a problem with the development of younger players - shaw took a while, januzaj, rafael, depay, amongst others, all discarded.

    And then theres the players we shouldnt have signed - rojo, darmian, schneiderlin etc.

    So i am on board with this policy - players who have potential, desire, want to improve. Its a long term project. No good signing any more players who only have a couple of seasons left in them
  36. Jul 3, 2019

    Spiersey Chelsea fan

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    I don’t understand the obsession with going after English talent. Does it stem from united having a British core when Ole was at the club? Surely he’s clever enough to know that the fact they were British was pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and the fact that they were all World Class players was much more important.
  37. Jul 3, 2019

    manunited1919 Full Member

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    Just off the top of my head, from RECENT history:
    Cristiano Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, RVN, RVP, Evra, Vidic, and Cantona all played an important part in building that history. If you want to look at our history from 30 or 40 years ago and say that back then all players were British/homegrown then that may be the case. But football has become much more globalized since then, and the Premier League more so. Now, it’s not uncommon for any Premier League club to buy players from Brazil, Netherlands, France, or just about anywhere. We shouldn’t tie one of our hands behind our back and say we will only consider buying English or British talent.
  38. Jul 3, 2019

    IAN HEALY New Member

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    Ole has said he want guys with the right attitude. Fair enough, what manager wouldn't but he inherited a team with a few players of questionable attitude and we havent seen any of those guys moved on yet.

    Buying British covers a wide spectrum. Are we getting younger versions of Smalling, Jones and Young who should all able been shown the door by now, or are we getting A-List British talent. I feel buying Maguire gives us more of the same. Above average talent without radically upgrading a major problem area in the centre of defence. if we have limited funds why are we buying British players as they always carry a bigger price tag ?
  39. Jul 3, 2019

    royboy16 Full Member

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    Our other transfers have failed so its worth trying something different but the other problems still exist in the Club and need to be addressed.
    I think this will be a hard season to watch being honest.
  40. Jul 3, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Yes, I agree with buying young players. But these players need to have some experience.
    James, and Wan Bissaka don't have experience of playing in the premiership or Europe.
    The players we should be going for should be young but proven players like Ndombele, Partey, Lo Celso, etc.