Our Players Aren't Streetsmart

Top

twitter thread suggester
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
9,829
Location
Denmark
Jesus Christ, do we need a fecking thread for everything?
If only there was a way for you to ignore it.
 

Himannv

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
3,086
Location
Somewhere in the draft forum
I don't have a very big problem with players being honest. I can see that it would have been better to win - but how you play the game is an important aspect as well. I have a bigger problem with us not being clinical enough in front of goal compared to our players not going down at the first opportunity.
 

simmee

Full Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
722
I don't have a very big problem with players being honest. I can see that it would have been better to win - but how you play the game is an important aspect as well. I have a bigger problem with us not being clinical enough in front of goal compared to our players not going down at the first opportunity.
I agree, but I do think we need to get in the refs face a bit more. A lot of teams kick our players around and they just take it. Not even our captain says anything. I've seen Fernandes have a go at the ref but that's about it. (I don't mean that they should cry about every foul but if the opposition have fouled to stop two or three counters in a row without getting a yellow it's time to at least make the ref aware.)
 

Himannv

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
3,086
Location
Somewhere in the draft forum
I agree, but I do think we need to get in the refs face a bit more. A lot of teams kick our players around and they just take it. Not even our captain says anything. I've seen Fernandes have a go at the ref but that's about it. (I don't mean that they should cry about every foul but if the opposition have fouled to stop two or three counters in a row without getting a yellow it's time to at least make the ref aware.)
Players aren't really allowed to do that any more. Showing dissent to a referees decision is listed as a Cautionable Offense under the rules. Basically under the new rules you'd get carded for that kind of thing. Some players still do it and some refs let it slide, but it's still against the rules of the game at the moment.
 

Lentwood

Full Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
3,611
Location
West Didsbury, Manchester
We still have a young team by the standards of most 'top' sides. Plus there's a shortage of actual experience in the Champs League and/or at the serious end of big competitions
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
6,698
We still have a young team by the standards of most 'top' sides. Plus there's a shortage of actual experience in the Champs League and/or at the serious end of big competitions
This will come with experience. PSG have been doing this for years, they have players that will go down with a gush of wind.

We have to expect that when we play these kinds of teams.
 

manunited1919

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
3,484
1. I think there are clear differences between two extreme ends and the middle ground.
a. twats - cheating, playacting pansies players eg. Neymar, Lamela, etc. Also including cynics and scums = players that try to dangerously and actively injure other players.
b. honest to a fault, 2 types
1. idealistic - noble-ish, never cheat, never play acting, etc.
2. emotional - temperamental, angered, often fight back.
The middle ground in the spectrum,
c. streetsmarts - the one that balance both ends well, they used good dark arts of football to gain advantage without using it too much, basically not over. Just a bit of playacting or taking advantage of the rules especially when there is contact, handballs, etc. Also have good temperament in not getting influence by people attempting to goad them up. This players are often praised by football professionals, and not ridiculed like the h.t.o.f. nor criticized/mocked/made-fun-of like the twats.

2. Point?
We have too many players that are honest to a fault.
I would say McT is left that are best at being streetsmart. The 2nd best is Rojo but we know we're getting rid off him. Bruno and Mata too are quite good at it. Pogba often try it, maybe he learned it from Juve, but he's so bad at it, and I feel bad for him each time he try. Lingard is also admittedly street-smart at times. The rest are not really. The new players that just came this year, I have no idea.

3. Conclusion?
We need more streetsmart players to play this game.
Don’t forget, we had Ander but let him wind down his contract.
 

Thaila-X

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Messages
65
Location
Manchester
Whether we like it or not, the dark arts are big aspect of the modern game and sure, I'd love if it we were just honest and played the game in the right spirit but that's not how football is anymore. Time and time again our players show a naivety and it costs us in key moments. I'm not advocating that we got to Diego Simone's School of Dark Arts and become a team that dives, cheats, wind players up, antagonize refs etc but we need to be more aware of when teams are doing it and react accordingly.
 

GiddyUp

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
4,638
Whether we like it or not, the dark arts are big aspect of the modern game and sure, I'd love if it we were just honest and played the game in the right spirit but that's not how football is anymore. Time and time again our players show a naivety and it costs us in key moments. I'm not advocating that we got to Diego Simone's School of Dark Arts and become a team that dives, cheats, wind players up, antagonize refs etc but we need to be more aware of when teams are doing it and react accordingly.
We've had a soft belly for a while. I remember Mark Noble literally picking Herrera up and throwing him off the pitch and not one of our players had an issue. Maguire seems more likely to side with the ref or opposition than fight our case. Rashford and Martial look like a teenager whose been told off in the classroom. That's why Bruno has been a breath of fresh air because he seems to have some fire in his belly.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
6,837

This is annoying. Good and honest guys win nothing. We need to step up our shithousery and fight fire with fire.
Yeah Ole needs to accept that the dark arts is part of the game and sometimes you need to use them when playing a team like PSG who are the absolute masters of it. I think back to how Jose's Porto team famously wound up Celtic in the 2003 UEFA Cup final but they won the trophy which is all that matters. You could also look at how Lamela clearly suckered Tony into that slap in the Spurs game as well which showed a complete lack of street smartness on his part.
 
Last edited:

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
6,837
We've had a soft belly for a while. I remember Mark Noble literally picking Herrera up and throwing him off the pitch and not one of our players had an issue. Maguire seems more likely to side with the ref or opposition than fight our case. Rashford and Martial look like a teenager whose been told off in the classroom. That's why Bruno has been a breath of fresh air because he seems to have some fire in his belly.
Yeah and you get the impression that Eddy would do it as well but not enough leaders in this team that's for sure
 

Fitchett

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
1,052
Location
Manchester
It's happened before. Remember Rafael's red cards against Bayern in 2010, a game we should have won, and against Chelsea a couple of years later. He was conned into red cards both times by snidey opponents, Ribery and Luiz, if I remember correctly.
 

Spaghetti

Mom's
Newbie
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
270
Location
Barcelona
All comes from the manager with his morals which is correct but when everyone else is cheating to get results we should do the same.

It's part of the game now unfortunately.
It’s nothing new. Players have already cheated. Players have always dived. Players have always (since cautions were introduced) asked the ref to book the other player. Players have always claimed a throw or a corner when they know they knocked it out. Players have always screamed hand ball when they knew it wasn’t.

The difference is that we know have 25 hours a day of football coverage and 6 billion angles of every incident. And fans forms, newspapers and media on their witch hunts.

Anyway, it’s nothing new.
 

Shane88

Actually Nostradamus
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
28,002
Location
Targaryen loyalist
Another example in that half. The ball goes out for a throw-in off City's corner flag, they should be pinned in there right by the flag. Instead Walker is allowed to stroll up the line past the penalty spot before taking the throw. One of the players should be screaming at the ref for this. He stole 14 fecking yards for a throw-in and we just accepted it.

Be cnuts, you cnuts.
 

Carl

has permanently erect nipples
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
42,499
Another example in that half. The ball goes out for a throw-in off City's corner flag, they should be pinned in there right by the flag. Instead Walker is allowed to stroll up the line past the penalty spot before taking the throw. One of the players should be screaming at the ref for this. He stole 14 fecking yards for a throw-in and we just accepted it.

Be cnuts, you cnuts.
Weird criticism. A better example would have been that we should have brought Sterling down and taken a yellow in the build up to the Mahrez/KDB chance. We need to get better at tactical fouls, for sure.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
24,996
Another example in that half. The ball goes out for a throw-in off City's corner flag, they should be pinned in there right by the flag. Instead Walker is allowed to stroll up the line past the penalty spot before taking the throw. One of the players should be screaming at the ref for this. He stole 14 fecking yards for a throw-in and we just accepted it.

Be cnuts, you cnuts.
worse than that was no one just taking Jesus out when he was breaking in the lead up to the Mahrez/De Bruyne chance

I was screaming at him to take him out
 

Berbasbullet

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
8,855
Another example in that half. The ball goes out for a throw-in off City's corner flag, they should be pinned in there right by the flag. Instead Walker is allowed to stroll up the line past the penalty spot before taking the throw. One of the players should be screaming at the ref for this. He stole 14 fecking yards for a throw-in and we just accepted it.

Be cnuts, you cnuts.
Pogba was I believe, but it’s ridiculous how far away from the corner flag he was allowed to go, honestly I don’t get what training these refs get. :lol:
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
20,557
Thread reminds me of when Noble carried Herrera off the field.
 
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
8,542
Another example in that half. The ball goes out for a throw-in off City's corner flag, they should be pinned in there right by the flag. Instead Walker is allowed to stroll up the line past the penalty spot before taking the throw. One of the players should be screaming at the ref for this. He stole 14 fecking yards for a throw-in and we just accepted it.

Be cnuts, you cnuts.
that was astonishing. Players steal a few yards all the time, which is part of the game - but the ball went out near the corner flag, and he managed to get to the 18 years box.

how did the ref not call him up?
 

Shane88

Actually Nostradamus
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
28,002
Location
Targaryen loyalist
The blatant tactical foul before the Rashford offside penalty went unpunished because we're such a lovely bunch of lads who stay quiet. Klopp would screaming his head off at the 4th official, Henderson would be screaming his head off at the ref. It took 3 clear tactical fouls before Fernandinho got booked.

These are simple non-skill based things that winners do and we don't do it.