Our POTY 2019/20

United's POTY this season?


  • Total voters
    555

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
11,254
Based on impact, it has to be Bruno.
But really Rashford, Martial, Fred and Matic put in a lot of effort to keep us going. I would put rest of the folks a little farther away from the lot.
 

Isotope

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
15,146
Supports
Ole Ole Ole
Bruno's in the poll and a good bit behind Martial so far.

I didn't vote for him as he hasn't played enough for me.
He's played 20 games for United so far. And probably another few games in Europa League.

Unless you only count PL as the only deciding factor for POTY.
 

ThinkTank@Cafe

Full Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
836
Location
Kazakhstan
If Bruno had played from the start of the season he would have had 95% of votes. In the last 6 months, he is indisputable #1. Martial POTY is fully deserved, however it doesn’t mean that Bruno is less important for us.
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
3,508
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
He's played 20 games for United so far. And probably another few games in Europa League.

Unless you only count PL as the only deciding factor for POTY.
The poll could be a bit premature if he goes on to light up the Europa to be fair but 20 games isn't really enough for me.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
1,632
Taking a look at the performance thread, I don't see Bruno as having untouchable performances. There's a lot of talk of fatigue and not having good games, for quite a few games in a row.

Looking beyond the narrative and the stats (as he takes all of our set pieces), Bruno really doesn't have as much claim as Martial or Rashford. I'd say he's on a Fred level, a bit below AWB who is in turn below Martial and Rashford.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
4,811
Taking a look at the performance thread, I don't see Bruno as having untouchable performances. There's a lot of talk of fatigue and not having good games, for quite a few games in a row.

I think looking beyond the narrative and the stats (as he takes all of our set pieces), Bruno really doesn't have as much claim as Martial or Rashford. I'd say he's on a Fred level, a bit below AWB who is in turn below Martial and Rashford.
Take for example out last 5 games(which is already quite a few) where he's been poor but that doesn't get taken into account and the narrative is always about him changing our team. He's been great for us but people are turning a blind eye to his poor performances. I mean he hasn't even been our most consistent performer since he's come. Martial has been more consistent than him since his arrival.
 

Sayros

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
3,440
Taking a look at the performance thread, I don't see Bruno as having untouchable performances. There's a lot of talk of fatigue and not having a good game for quite a few games in a row.

Looking beyond the narrative and the stats (as he takes all of our set pieces), Bruno really doesn't have as much claim as Martial or Rashford. I'd say he's on a Fred level, a bit below AWB who is in turn below Martial and Rashford.
Agreed. Bruno is getting a bit overhyped here, but for understandable reasons. He has been an important missing piece to the midfield, especially in Pogba's absence. But just as much as Martial and Rashford need Bruno, so it works the other way around. Martial especially, has had a great chemistry with Bruno almost from the start, and it shows in how they seem to be really good friends whenever I see them interacting together.

Bruno's had less than half a season of PL games here, so each game deserves a bit more scrutiny, and while the stats don't lie, they also don't tell the full story. A lot of penalties won by other players, assists that were made to look better by the finishing of the forwards than they really were, and a lot of ups and down in performances, at least 5 games we can say he was relatively poor, and 8-9 games where he was solid to great.

I've already cast my vote for Martial, because I believe he's been far more consistent than any of the other serious contenders, and I think he's had a big impact on Bruno, and not just the other way around.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
15,097
I dont remember Martial being that good before Christmas? He has been brilliant since re start and possibly our best player, long may it continue. But pre Christmas? Maybe my memory is letting me down however pre Christmas
He wasn’t. It’s only been the last month or so that you could regularly argue he’s been the best player in a particular game. Before the lockdown De Gea had won more man of the match’s on here than Martial. And this forum loves Martial.
 

Mibabalou

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
5,977
Location
53', 93', 94', 99', 90+1', 90+3', 26', 34'
I voted for rashford, he was the only reason we were even close enough to still have top 4 hope when the break came.

We rode him into the ground and he got hurt.

Bruno my a mile from Jan on but it's impossible to have a player of the year join in Jan IMO.
 

Rightnr

Full Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
2,378
Voted Fernandes for the ridiculous impact he's had since coming in. He basically singlehandedly levelled up the team up in both technical and mental aspects.

Martial is probably my favourite player but it's just hard to look past the impact Bruno has had. I firmly believe next season he'll get it, provided he can stay fit. His consistent excellence has defied naysayers and dumb pundits alike and he's finally showing he can do it day-in, day-out at very close to world class level.

Wan-Bissaka was a major shout before the break but he was lacklustre in some of the crucial fixtures and his weaknesses were exposed.

Rashford getting 18% is actually ridiculous, to be honest. His performances have been very poor for large part of the season and his stats which so many people like quoting are vastly inflated due to him taking penalties. I expect a much higher level of consistency and persistent quality from someone on his wage.
 

Isotope

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
15,146
Supports
Ole Ole Ole
The poll could be a bit premature if he goes on to light up the Europa to be fair but 20 games isn't really enough for me.
Fair enough. I see that Bruno's arrival really spurred the Team to have a very decent Finish, that I couldn't see it at all before his arrival.
However good other players were, that Table before his was telling otherwise. Martial wasn't even the top 2 best player before the lock down (everyone's agreed the top list would be Rashford or Fred).

But hey, I'm still happy if Martial gets POTY. A smiling Martial is a sight to behold.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
75,171
Location
india
He's always been a massive fan favourite. Should put to rest some absolutely ridiculous claims that he's unfairly hated.
I mean, he was unfairly hated by our previous manager so it's not surprising that this would percolate to an extent into our fan base.
 

Roosney

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
3,178
Location
Finland
Rashford kept us afloat for a good amount of the season. Also his off field heroics are just awesome.
 

Kag

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
16,061
Location
United Kingdom
It’s Bruno. That he wasn’t here for half of it means jack. He came in and completely revitalised an underperforming team. Without him we would be without European football. Of course it’s him.
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
3,508
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
Fair enough. I see that Bruno's arrival really spurred the Team to have a very decent Finish, that I couldn't see it at all before his arrival.
However good other players were, that Table before his was telling otherwise. Martial wasn't even the top 2 best player before the lock down (everyone's agreed the top list would be Rashford or Fred).

But hey, I'm still happy if Martial gets POTY. A smiling Martial is a sight to behold.
I don't disagree Bruno was the catalyst for a great run of form but when he was running out of steam and everyone seemed to be having bad games Martial was still full of running, winning pens, assisting and scoring goals but I can see why people would vote for Bruno.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
5,492
Location
In a tree, spying on the next opposition.
I expected it to be close between Martial and Rashford, but clearly that's not the case.

Voted Rashford because of his incredible carry in the early half of the season, there were games where he was unplayable. He put his head down and played through pain and injury till the double fracture put a stop to affairs. You could clearly see him still not being completely fit after the break but he adapted into a playmaker with some lovely through balls and link up play. As I posted in the Rashford thread, he had the best G+A numbers per 90 minutes after Bruno, and you have to remember that he's a big game player as well.

All that, plus the fact that he's two years younger than Martial, a youth academy product and championed a charity campaign that led to such a massive change for millions of kids makes him the clear choice for me.

When I look back on this horrible year and wonder who our POTY was, it should be the man who brought joy to fans both on and off the pitch. This should be Rashford's POTY to lose, honestly.
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
6,754
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
Recency bias?

Odd.. Martial is nowhere close to be our best player in the first half of this season nor the pre-C19 break. Thought this should be Rashford vs Bruno.

Why is Greenwood there?
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
4,811
Recency bias?

Odd.. Martial is nowhere close to be our best player in the first half of this season nor the pre-C19 break. Thought this should be Rashford vs Bruno.

Why is Greenwood there?
How is it recency bias when even if we only factor Bruno's time here Martial has been more consistent than him. Martial has been good pre Covid since Bruno arrival and carried his consistency till the very end whereas Bruno tailed off in our last 5 or so games.

Add to the fact that even in the first part of the season where he missed 2 months of football, his absence was felt when we couldn't score goals and went a whole month of PL football with scoring only once. Martial's return allowed Rashford to finally pick himself up in that first part of the season. Beside that dreadful month of January when the team was at its lowest Martial has been consistent throughout the whole season even more so in the second half of the season.

He's literally had a hand and goal involvement in every single games played in July(7 games) and was our biggest and most consistent player during this run when the team as a whole was already limping to the finish line. Consistent throughout and being the most clutch player in our run in get him votes, not recency bias.

Also Martial and Greenwood are the only players from our best goal scoring attacking players whose stats aren't padded by penalties.
 

Red Star One

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
1,670
Location
Luxembourg/Warsaw
I am surprised to see Rashford got so little votes so far. Case for Bruno can be made - yet I’m slightly reserved about handing POTY to a player that was with us for less than half a season, though his impact was undeniable - but Rashford carried us in more games than any player other than Bruno. He was ran to the ground before Covid and ended up shot, but his influence on the team is undeniable
 

OleBoiii

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
1,112
I voted for Bruno without a second of hesitation, but I want to give my two cents on Martial vs Rashford:

I'm not surprised at all to see Martial with more than twice as many votes as Rashford. Martial has simply been more consistent. He's also been our second best player in the second half of the season and arguably in the first half as well. Overall that beats Rashford, who I wouldn't even put in the top 5 in 2020.

Rashford is top 3 overall, but he's behind Bruno and Martial, imo. Him being an awesome person outside of football doesn't change that. It would have been a neat tie-breaker if it was dead even, but it's not.
 

Yagami

Kira did nothing wrong
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
9,087
Martial. Was just behind Rashford as our best player before Marcus' injury, and then was our best player for the remainder of the season.
 

Kush

Full Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
2,737
Bruno by far, completely transformed our season. We were looking dead and buried in Top 4 race before his arrival, but haven't lost in PL since.

Rashford was fantastic up until his injury, and played decent post lockdown too. So, he's 2nd. Martial in 3rd, no idea why he's leading the poll. Perhaps, recency bias. He was incredibly hot n cold up until lockdown, well mostly cold.

It’s Bruno. That he wasn’t here for half of it means jack. He came in and completely revitalised an underperforming team. Without him we would be without European football. Of course it’s him.
This, his impact in half a season was above and beyond any player over the course of season. Without him we don't make CL, heck even European football. Solksjaer is sacked and fans would be fighting amongst themselves over where the club is headed. Even if you set aside the numbers, the overall lift he gave to the club cannot be summed into words.

For those, who are arguing about his numbers. There's a fair bit to get into it, most of his goals are from set-pieces, while half of his assists are easy passes and worldies. But, the fact of the matter is, he is still making those decisive contributions. Even, when he's having an average game, the probability of him playing the killer pass leading to goal is very high. Many of the routine victories we've gotten after his arrival, wouldn't be as easy or as straight-forward without him.
 
Last edited:

giggslover

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
28
Don't even see how martial is a vote, much less leading the vote.

Rashford, Bruno, and Fred should be the finalists
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
2,305
Don't even see how martial is a vote, much less leading the vote.

Rashford, Bruno, and Fred should be the finalists
Well he was tied for our top scorer despite missing 2 months of action, was the highest scoring player leaguewide so far in 2020 and is arguably the most integral part of our front 3, not tough to see why he's at the percentage he's at...

Why don't you think he should be getting votes?
 

Gambit

Desperately wants to be a Muppet
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
29,926
Before his back injury I would have voted for Rashford. Instead I've gone with a player that's solved a position we've struggled with for years. Aaron Wan Bissaka
 

giggslover

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
28
Well he was tied for our top scorer despite missing 2 months of action, was the highest scoring player leaguewide so far in 2020 and is arguably the most integral part of our front 3, not tough to see why he's at the percentage he's at...

Why don't you think he should be getting votes?
To me never our most IMPORTANT player. In the beginning of year, Rashford was on a different level and carrying team on his back, meaning providing that little bit extra that saw us through games. When Rashford went out, yes we needed Martial to score goals but IMO Fred's increase in production and dynamic play was crucial to our sticking around both in games and the league. He was not playing well in the beginning of year and we were concerned that Mctominay might not have a midfield partner with Pogba essentially going on strike. Fred stepped up in a massive way and we did not get so far behind in the standings that we were out of it totally.

Then Bruno came and rest is history...
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
6,754
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
How is it recency bias when even if we only factor Bruno's time here Martial has been more consistent than him. Martial has been good pre Covid since Bruno arrival and carried his consistency till the very end whereas Bruno tailed off in our last 5 or so games.

Add to the fact that even in the first part of the season where he missed 2 months of football, his absence was felt when we couldn't score goals and went a whole month of PL football with scoring only once. Martial's return allowed Rashford to finally pick himself up in that first part of the season. Beside that dreadful month of January when the team was at its lowest Martial has been consistent throughout the whole season even more so in the second half of the season.

He's literally had a hand and goal involvement in every single games played in July(7 games) and was our biggest and most consistent player during this run when the team as a whole was already limping to the finish line. Consistent throughout and being the most clutch player in our run in get him votes, not recency bias.

Also Martial and Greenwood are the only players from our best goal scoring attacking players whose stats aren't padded by penalties.
And yet many people say Martial is not our best top 3 player at all in the first half of this season. People lambasted him for being inconsistent (not including the goals). Rashford, Fred, AWB, Maguire and McT are the players ahead of him regarded as our best players during those times.

Forget already?
A trip to past threads or earlier dates in his player performance would jog our memories. There are plenty of threads and posts about it.

Consistent?
Let's not pretend there are no bad games where we were frustrated by his performances. No doubt, towards the closing of this league, he is undoubtedly our most consistent player, but not during the early restart games, nor before that. Hence recency bias.

Seriously, Martial is more consistent than Bruno?
Only the later games of this restart, which is still fresh in people's memories. Then that's also another example of recency bias.

Similar with Greenwood <-- his performances is not consistent overall, not including the goals, that one is consistent.

I guess I can see in what angle you rate players, so nvm.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
1,632
And yet many people say Martial is not our best top 3 player at all in the first half of this season. People lambasted him for being inconsistent (not including the goals). Rashford, Fred, AWB, Maguire and McT are the players ahead of him regarded as our best players during those times.

Forget already?
A trip to past threads or earlier dates in his player performance would jog our memories. There are plenty of threads and posts about it.

Consistent?
Let's not pretend there are no bad games where we were frustrated by his performances. No doubt, towards the closing of this league, he is undoubtedly our most consistent player, but not during the early restart games, nor before that. Hence recency bias.

Seriously, Martial is more consistent than Bruno?
Only the later games of this restart, which is still fresh in people's memories. Then that's also another example of recency bias.

Similar with Greenwood <-- his performances is not consistent overall, not including the goals, that one is consistent.

I guess I can see in what angle you rate players, so nvm.
Martial has had an agenda against him based on previous years, hence the debate around him has been polarizing.

Pointing to people's opinion about him is useless; in fact look at how pundits still talk about him with the same cliches. On the other hand, look at how pundits talk about Bruno who we've all been complaining 'fatigue' for many games now. It's all about narratives mate.

But in the end the most logical conclusion is the guy who didn't take any set pieces and still ended up top of the contributions chart while being an integral member of the team, must have done something right during the season. Most likely that he simply didn't get his dues from the fans until it was undeniable (and even now some are still unsure of him); the pundits are another matter entirely.
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
2,913
Location
Ireland
Martial and fairly comfortably I think. Rashford was great before and after Martial's injury in the first half of the season but not while Martial was out. Our attack is so reliant on Martial it's ridiculous.
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
6,754
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
UNITED’S PLAYERS OF THE MONTH IN 2019/20

August – Daniel James
September – Scott McTominay
October – Scott McTominay
November – Marcus Rashford
December – Marcus Rashford
January – Fred
February – Bruno Fernandes
March – Bruno Fernandes
June – Bruno Fernandes
July – Mason Greenwood

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...nited-Player-of-the-Month-award-for-July-2020
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martial should've win July, no idea why Greenwood won there.
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
6,754
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
Top bests of every months.

UNITED’S PLAYERS OF THE MONTH IN 2019/20

Start!
August – 1. Daniel James (61%), 2. Wan-Bissaka (36%), 3. Maguire (3%)​
September – 1. Scott McTominay (40%), 2. Shaw (35%), 3. Lindelof (25%)​
October – 1. Scott McTominay (48%), 2. Rashford (39%), 3. James (13%)​
November – 1. Marcus Rashford (53%), 2. Williams (37%), 3. Greenwood (10%)​
December – Marcus Rashford, ???​

McT & Rashford out
January – 1. Fred (51%), 2. Williams (23%), 3. Maguire (14%), 4. Matic (11%)​

Bruno
February – 1. Bruno Fernandes (80%), 2. Martial (14%), 3. Shaw (6%)​
March – 1. Bruno Fernandes, 2. Ighalo/Fred/Maguire​

Restart
June – Bruno Fernandes, ???​
July – 1. Mason Greenwood (46%), 2. Martial (28%), 3. Bruno (26%)​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couldn't find Dec nor June (the official website is such a mess).
March also doesn't show the percentage.

So Martial is only a nominee twice, possibly four times (including Dec and June), and not even close to be our best player (except July but the percentage is ridiculously low) in those months. Posters generally in the caf during those times say the same thing, take a trip to the past threads and past posts to see.

Therefore choosing Martial as poty is recency bias.

Suddenly because his form in this late stage is awesome, it gave better "lights" to his earlier performances. Suddenly he's our most important player despite Ole kept on subbing him out even when we're chasing games earlier games, including the earliest games of this restart. Only at the later games near the league ends, Ole relied on Martial to save the day and he generally did.
 

Web of Bissaka

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
6,754
Location
Losing to Comeback Winning!
UNITED’S PLAYERS OF THE MONTH IN 2019/20

August – 1. Daniel James (61%), 2. Wan-Bissaka (36%), 3. Maguire (3%)
September – 1. Scott McTominay (40%), 2. Shaw (35%), 3. Lindelof (25%)
October – 1. Scott McTominay (48%), 2. Rashford (39%), 3. James (13%)
November – 1. Marcus Rashford (53%), 2. Williams (37%), 3. Greenwood (10%)
December – Marcus Rashford, ???

January – 1. Fred (51%), 2. Williams (23%), 3. Maguire (14%), 4. Matic (11%)

February – 1. Bruno Fernandes (80%), 2. Martial (14%), 3. Shaw (6%)
March – 1. Bruno Fernandes, 2. Ighalo/Fred/Maguire

June – Bruno Fernandes, ???
July – 1. Mason Greenwood (46%), 2. Martial (28%), 3. Bruno (26%)
Total nominees ?x
Bruno 4x

Maguire 3x
Rashford 3x

Greenwood 2x
Martial 2x
Maguire 2x
McTominay 2x
Fred 2x
James 2x
Shaw 2x
Williams 2x

AWB 1x
Lindelof 1x
Ighalo 1x

If we add the missing +2 potential (Dec & June), then only two players: Mag and Rash can be a "greater" nominee than Bruno. The more you're nominated, the more you are more consistent and make significant contributions throughout the season.