Our POTY 2019/20

United's POTY this season?


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    634

Paolo Di Canio

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I think its a testiment to Ole that last season we couldnt really give it to anyone so gave it to Luke Shaw

This season we have 5 or 6 contenders
 

cptkeane1993

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Maguire.

After the end of last season, the biggest weakness / hole in our squad was in defence. Bailly and Lindelof were good but they were not dominant and lacked the leadership and organisation qualities, while Young was past it. Hence United invested big in central defence and also in a young and improving right-back. Centre-forward was also a weak area on paper with Lukaku being ushered out but obviously Solskjaer knows a good striker when he sees one and knew Martial will step up to it.

Hence to me, Maguire is my POTY. He has led and organised the defence to a level where we are far more solid, let in far fewer goals and kept a lot more clean sheets compared to previous years. This is especially key given we've gone from conservative football under Mourinho to attacking football under Solksjaer. And this in his first full season under the United spotlight. And this with carrying greater responsibility as captain for the second half of the season. I think he will get better next season. Pallister and Vidic had tough first seasons in central defence but went on to become captains / legends. Maguire has the same capacity imo.

His one weakness is pace and if we partnered him with a pacy centre-back this summer, I think they will complement each other quite well. Bailly and Tuanzebe, if they stay injury-free, have the potential to be that partner. But I digress.
 
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E-mal

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Recency bias?

Odd.. Martial is nowhere close to be our best player in the first half of this season nor the pre-C19 break. Thought this should be Rashford vs Bruno.

Why is Greenwood there?
Bruno was pretty shite in the last 5 games which was the crunch time.
Greenwood and particularly Martial carried us through.
I think in terms of consistent performance, even after the arrival of Bruno, I felt Martial was better than Bruno.
All in all it was a season of two halves
Rashford for the first half and Martial for second for me.
Bruno came close third.
 

Mainoldo

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Super Tony. He best bloody get the proper thing to. Player of the season and also probably our best player hands down.
 

Clique

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Bruno was pretty shite in the last 5 games which was the crunch time.
Greenwood and particularly Martial carried us through.
I think in terms of consistent performance, even after the arrival of Bruno, I felt Martial was better than Bruno.
All in all it was a season of two halves
Rashford for the first half and Martial for second for me.
Bruno came close third.
Unfortunately, the bold part isn't true.

I ran a statistical comparison of Martial and Rashford in the Sancho thread (That thread has become a microcosm of everything caf) - and just to validate this viewpoint that Rashford before 2020 was better than Rashford after 2020, I took data from whoscored and saw if that's the reality -

Bottomline answer - No.

We played 20 games before 1st Jan 2020 in the EPL. Rashford's average rating for this time period was 7.357, with a SD of 0.87. He had 4 really bad performances (i.e. rating less than 6.5) and 4 really good performances (i.e rating greater than 8.23) and 12 performances between the upper control limit and lower control limit.

For the entire season, Rashford's overall rating was (drum-roll) - 7.349 with a SD of 0.89. He performed ever so slightly less than in the first part of the season and had a few more fluctuating performances.

Compared to Martial - Till 1st Jan (13 games played)
Avg rating - 7.358 (~0.001 rating better than Rashford)
SD - 0.80 (He was actually pretty consistent)
Really bad performances - 2 (rating less than 6.55)
Really good performances - 2 (rating greater than 8.16)

For the entire season, Martial's overall rating was (again, drum-roll) - 7.359 with a SD of 0.87. He performed ever so slightly better in the second part of the season and had a higher upper limit during this period contributing to the increase in the SD movement.

Yaay statistics. Yaay Moneyball.

All said and done - I think both of them have done brilliantly well this season.
 

Terminator

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Rashford single handedly dragged us through the toughest part of the season when many were out injured, clear winner for me. Tony 2nd and Bruno 3rd.
 

11101

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Martial has had a great season but Bruno has come in and had an impact we haven't seen from a player since RVP if not before. He has to win it.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Found Dec and June.

UNITED’S PLAYERS OF THE MONTH IN 2019/20

August – 1. Daniel James (61%), 2. Wan-Bissaka (36%), 3. Maguire (3%)
September – 1. Scott McTominay (40%), 2. Shaw (35%), 3. Lindelof (25%)
October – 1. Scott McTominay (48%), 2. Rashford (39%), 3. James (13%)
November – 1. Marcus Rashford (53%), 2. Williams (37%), 3. Greenwood (10%)
December – 1. Marcus Rashford (40%), 2. Fred (37%), 3.Greenwood (23%)

January – 1. Fred (51%), 2. Williams (23%), 3. Maguire (14%), 4. Matic (11%)

February – 1. Bruno Fernandes (80%), 2. Martial (14%), 3. Shaw (6%)
March – 1. Bruno Fernandes, 2. Ighalo/Fred/Maguire

June – 1. Bruno Fernandes, 2. Martial/Matic
July – 1. Mason Greenwood (46%), 2. Martial (28%), 3. Bruno (26%)

----------

So Bruno is still ahead, no one else got 4x nominees.
Imagine if he joined earlier, alas he only have 4 months to be among/be the bests.

:lol: There's still August left to make it 5x, Europa League?
Surely there's going to be another final potm due to this C19.
 

E-mal

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Unfortunately, the bold part isn't true.

I ran a statistical comparison of Martial and Rashford in the Sancho thread (That thread has become a microcosm of everything caf) - and just to validate this viewpoint that Rashford before 2020 was better than Rashford after 2020, I took data from whoscored and saw if that's the reality -

Bottomline answer - No.

We played 20 games before 1st Jan 2020 in the EPL. Rashford's average rating for this time period was 7.357, with a SD of 0.87. He had 4 really bad performances (i.e. rating less than 6.5) and 4 really good performances (i.e rating greater than 8.23) and 12 performances between the upper control limit and lower control limit.

For the entire season, Rashford's overall rating was (drum-roll) - 7.349 with a SD of 0.89. He performed ever so slightly less than in the first part of the season and had a few more fluctuating performances.

Compared to Martial - Till 1st Jan (13 games played)
Avg rating - 7.358 (~0.001 rating better than Rashford)
SD - 0.80 (He was actually pretty consistent)
Really bad performances - 2 (rating less than 6.55)
Really good performances - 2 (rating greater than 8.16)

For the entire season, Martial's overall rating was (again, drum-roll) - 7.359 with a SD of 0.87. He performed ever so slightly better in the second part of the season and had a higher upper limit during this period contributing to the increase in the SD movement.

Yaay statistics. Yaay Moneyball.

All said and done - I think both of them have done brilliantly well this season.
Whatever mate, am not reading all that.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Caf's Top 10+ Season ratings
https://www.redcafe.net/players/2019-20/all
  1. Bruno 7.1 and 6 motm
  2. Martial 6.1 and 5 motm | AWB 6.1 and 5 motm
  3. Fred 6.0 and 5 motm
  4. Maguire 6.0 and 4 motm
  5. McTominay 6.0 and 3 motm
  6. Williams 6.0 and 2 motm
  7. Pogba 6.0 and 1 motm | Ighalo 6.0 and 1 motm
  8. Greenwood 5.9 and 7 motm
  9. Shaw 5.9 and 1 motm
  10. Matic 5.9
  11. Rashford 5.8 and 5 motm
  12. De Gea 5.8 and 3 motm
  13. Lindelof 5.7
*Removed the players playing 15 games and lower..

:nervous: Why is Rashford rated lower?
Isn't this his best season...
 

E-mal

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Caf's Top 10+ Season ratings
https://www.redcafe.net/players/2019-20/all
  1. Bruno 7.1 and 6 motm
  2. Martial 6.1 and 5 motm | AWB 6.1 and 5 motm
  3. Fred 6.0 and 5 motm
  4. Maguire 6.0 and 4 motm
  5. McTominay 6.0 and 3 motm
  6. Williams 6.0 and 2 motm
  7. Pogba 6.0 and 1 motm | Ighalo 6.0 and 1 motm
  8. Greenwood 5.9 and 7 motm
  9. Shaw 5.9 and 1 motm
  10. Matic 5.9
  11. Rashford 5.8 and 5 motm
  12. De Gea 5.8 and 3 motm
  13. Lindelof 5.7
*Removed the players playing 15 games and lower..

:nervous: Why is Rashford rated lower?
Isn't this his best season...
Caf knee jerk reaction to loss without perspective.
 

Clique

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Yeh. Martial wasn't even on the contention before the lock-down. Now some even say he's miles away from the others. A very short memory :lol:
Even on the last few games, Martial wasn't even our best performer.
Problem with that analysis is sample set (bias by individuals towards, unequal # of games, etc. etc.). Martial has been pretty consistent for the entire year (did a statistical analysis a few comments above as proof). I wouldn't mind any of the 3 (Bruno, Martial or Rashford) getting POTY. But this narrative that Martial's performance is boosted by recency bias is unfortunately wrong.
 

el3mel

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Bruno deserves it the most thinking about it. His impact on the team was the main reason we ended up where we ended. I hate to think how the season would have went without him. While Rashford did really well in first half imo and Martial ended the season in a great form, it's Bruno who really unlocked everyone and brought the best of our players, elevating us to a level we could have only dreamed of in the first half of the season.
 

He'sRaldo

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Caf's Top 10+ Season ratings
https://www.redcafe.net/players/2019-20/all
  1. Bruno 7.1 and 6 motm
  2. Martial 6.1 and 5 motm | AWB 6.1 and 5 motm
  3. Fred 6.0 and 5 motm
  4. Maguire 6.0 and 4 motm
  5. McTominay 6.0 and 3 motm
  6. Williams 6.0 and 2 motm
  7. Pogba 6.0 and 1 motm | Ighalo 6.0 and 1 motm
  8. Greenwood 5.9 and 7 motm
  9. Shaw 5.9 and 1 motm
  10. Matic 5.9
  11. Rashford 5.8 and 5 motm
  12. De Gea 5.8 and 3 motm
  13. Lindelof 5.7
*Removed the players playing 15 games and lower..

:nervous: Why is Rashford rated lower?
Isn't this his best season...
Go back and read the 'burst Rashy's bubble' thread.
 

Isotope

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Problem with that analysis is sample set (bias by individuals towards, unequal # of games, etc. etc.). Martial has been pretty consistent for the entire year (did a statistical analysis a few comments above as proof). I wouldn't mind any of the 3 (Bruno, Martial or Rashford) getting POTY. But this narrative that Martial's performance is boosted by recency bias is unfortunately wrong.
Martial wasn't as good as post-lockdown the whole season. I'm not sure where this "he's consistent" claim coming from. That post by @Web of Bissaka shows cumulative data over the season, showing top 3 players for every month. Do you see how often Martial was in there?

So yes, this narrative that Martial's performance is boosted by recency bias is unfortunately right.
 

He'sRaldo

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Top bests of every months.

UNITED’S PLAYERS OF THE MONTH IN 2019/20

Start!
August – 1. Daniel James (61%), 2. Wan-Bissaka (36%), 3. Maguire (3%)​
September – 1. Scott McTominay (40%), 2. Shaw (35%), 3. Lindelof (25%)​
October – 1. Scott McTominay (48%), 2. Rashford (39%), 3. James (13%)​
November – 1. Marcus Rashford (53%), 2. Williams (37%), 3. Greenwood (10%)​
December – Marcus Rashford, ???​

McT & Rashford out
January – 1. Fred (51%), 2. Williams (23%), 3. Maguire (14%), 4. Matic (11%)​

Bruno
February – 1. Bruno Fernandes (80%), 2. Martial (14%), 3. Shaw (6%)​
March – 1. Bruno Fernandes, 2. Ighalo/Fred/Maguire​

Restart
June – Bruno Fernandes, ???​
July – 1. Mason Greenwood (46%), 2. Martial (28%), 3. Bruno (26%)​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couldn't find Dec nor June (the official website is such a mess).
March also doesn't show the percentage.

So Martial is only a nominee twice, possibly four times (including Dec and June), and not even close to be our best player (except July but the percentage is ridiculously low) in those months. Posters generally in the caf during those times say the same thing, take a trip to the past threads and past posts to see.

Therefore choosing Martial as poty is recency bias.

Suddenly because his form in this late stage is awesome, it gave better "lights" to his earlier performances. Suddenly he's our most important player despite Ole kept on subbing him out even when we're chasing games earlier games, including the earliest games of this restart. Only at the later games near the league ends, Ole relied on Martial to save the day and he generally did.
Look at some of the nominees: Dan James, McTominay, Williams, Ighalo.

The common thing with pretty much all of them is they are all fan favourites. This means there's a definite level of bias present, which is separate from pure performances. How do you account for that?
 

Clique

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That post by @Web of Bissaka shows a more accurate numbers. It's a cumulative data over the season, showing top 3 players for every month. Do you see how often Martial was in there?
Not a lot. But you'll have take the Caf's rating system with a pinch of salt for the following reasons.
  • Data is biased - people vote for their favorite players rather than an objective view of who performed best. You'll see that bias come through even in this poll
  • Sample set is skewed - There are months with more games and then there are months with fewer games. Taking a monthly subset of Caf's opinions would only regurgitate the mixed emotions we saw here
  • Not everyone votes - While the caf, overall, is a good sample set for our supporter base. Very few people actually bother to vote. Even in this poll, there's about 450 votes which I'll venture is much much higher than the number of votes we got in each of the monthly awards. i.e. loudest voice wins.

Whoscored is independent data with little to no bias and provides a comparative metric for evaluation. So while I appreciate the efforts that Web of Bissaka put in to gather those results, they unfortunately aren't accurate.
 

Santoryo

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Bruno was pretty shite in the last 5 games which was the crunch time.
Greenwood and particularly Martial carried us through.
I think in terms of consistent performance, even after the arrival of Bruno, I felt Martial was better than Bruno.
All in all it was a season of two halves
Rashford for the first half and Martial for second for me.
Bruno came close third.
The bolded is something @Web of Bissaka seems to be ignoring when evaluating Bruno. Arguably our 5 most important games of our season and he didn't show up. Say what you want about his impact but those 5 games were massive for us and he wasn't the guy that showed up for us, it was Martial which adds more to his integrity for the POTY award.

Couple that with Martial being more consistent than Bruno since the latter arrived and he even has more of a case than him. Not to mention Martial has played a full season unlike Bruno.
 

Sayros

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Whoscored is independent data with little to no bias and provides a comparative metric for evaluation. So while I appreciate the efforts that Web of Bissaka put in to gather those results, they unfortunately aren't accurate.
Isn't Martial the only United player who featured on whoscored's team of the season or am I remembering that wrong?
 

E-mal

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The bolded is something @Web of Bissaka seems to be ignoring when evaluating Bruno. Arguably our 5 most important games of our season and he didn't show up. Say what you want about his impact but those 5 games were massive for us and he wasn't the guy that showed up for us, it was Martial which adds more to his integrity for the POTY award.

Couple that with Martial being more consistent than Bruno since the latter arrived and he even has more of a case than him. Not to mention Martial has played a full season unlike Bruno.
I sink you're Martial FC commandante.
I sink you're one of his "mad-dogs"
I sink you're one of "cnuts"
 

Isotope

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Not a lot. But you'll have take the Caf's rating system with a pinch of salt for the following reasons.
  • Data is biased - people vote for their favorite players rather than an objective view of who performed best. You'll see that bias come through even in this poll
  • Sample set is skewed - There are months with more games and then there are months with fewer games. Taking a monthly subset of Caf's opinions would only regurgitate the mixed emotions we saw here
  • Not everyone votes - While the caf, overall, is a good sample set for our supporter base. Very few people actually bother to vote. Even in this poll, there's about 450 votes which I'll venture is much much higher than the number of votes we got in each of the monthly awards. i.e. loudest voice wins.

Whoscored is independent data with little to no bias and provides a comparative metric for evaluation. So while I appreciate the efforts that Web of Bissaka put in to gather those results, they unfortunately aren't accurate.
It's not accurate. But do you think your opinion is as accurate as those data, though? And there's no "accurate" data perse available anyway.

"Data is biased-" doesn't explain of why Martial features more post lockdown then before. He only featured once in Top 3 before lockdown, though.
This poll also suggest that a lot of Caf posters are not biased against Martial. If Martial is as good or consistent over the whole season you'd see him feature more pre-lockdown, as you see those data post lockdown.
 
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Clique

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It's not accurate. But do you think your opinion is as accurate as those data, though? And there's no "accurate" data perse available anyway.

"Data is biased-" doesn't explain of why Martial features more post lockdown then before. He only featured once in Top 3 before lockdown, though.
This poll also suggest that a lot of Caf posters are not biased against Martial. If Martial is as good or consistent over the whole season you'd see him feature more pre-lockdown, as you see those data post lockdown.
Err. There's biased and unbiased data - unbiased data is more accurate. So yes, there is available, accurate data that's publicly available.

I can prove that the sample size for the monthly polls are non-representative and biased, but for some reason you seem to believe it more than Whoscored. So going down the hypothetical route that the Caf's monthly ratings is correct
  • Martial through the year has an average Caf rating of 6.1, given the sample set, shouldn't that make him more consistent and higher rated than the others (given that the number is an average through the season as opposed to just the bias towards post lock-down) -
  • Scott McTominay has as many player of the months as Rashford (pre-lockdown) - why aren't we discussing about him as PoTY
 

Santoryo

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Also using fan voted player of the month award is extremely faulty because they don't say much. Heck Martial didn't win this month player of the month when objectively he should have won it. The award is hugely favorable for new signings and academy players, it's as simple as that. James, Ighalo, Williams, Bruno, Greenwood, McTomminay all fit that category.

People questioning his consistency and throwing the bias opinions couldn't be any more wrong. Consistency wise, Matial has been our most consistent player this year. He's literally only had a single bad month(January) while he's performed at the respectable level at AT LEAST throughout the rest of the months, no other player can have that claim. And I'll break it down to prove this point.

Start of the season Martial starts in fine form in his first 3 games. 2 goals and an assists plus good overall play. He gets injured and sidelined for 2 months.

While he's out we stank up the place and showed our worst form of the season. We went a whole month of football scoring only once in the league. Everyone completely awful and the Rashford detractors reach an all time high. Rashford forced to play as a striker and was quite terrible during that period which lead to him being questioned. Unfortunately those are 2 months he'd love to forget.

Martial finally comes back from injury after 2 months and our game picks up a bit. Rashford restored as an inside forward and he started his blossoming run of the season. By then Rashford indisputably became our best player while Martial himself was one of our better performer and important player but not quite as good as Rashford who was imply in sublime form. At that time we saw the importance of Martial link up play and helping in the midfield because Lingard and Perreira were utterly hopeless. His presence and play was valuable and important in unlocking Rashford and give us any semblance of trying to play decent football even though we were still quite inconsistent as a team.

Came December, Martial has a better month than November(the month he came back after his injury but was integral for us) with games like the Newcastle one as highlight. Now this is practically the first part of the season where he wasn't poor and hadn't had a stinker of a month. After a great start, he unfortunately picked up an injury which sidelined him for 2 months and we played some of the most horrible football ever. Then he came back and helped us play better which also helped Rashford unlock. Decent first half of the season.

Now comes January where he finally got his stinker of a month. This period was quite terrible for us with defeats against Liverpool and the final blow being a defeat against Burnley at home. In that period Martial squandered a great chance against Liverpool(thought he created it) and was quite terrible against Burnley. This month was easily the one were he put a stinker of a month.

Now comes February and we have Bruno. Things finally picks up, we start stringing a bunch of good performance and the start of our unbeaten run which last until our defeat to Chelsea in the FA cup semi final. From this point on Martial becomes a more consistent goal scorer. He doesn't go 2 games he start without scoring almost. Bruno at this point is clearly the best player in the team but Martial is also among our best performer. He's consistently contributing but because he just came out of a bad month and all the love the Caf could muster was going to Bruno, some people just didn't realize how consistently well Martial was already performing.

People were still so bias against Martial that they refused to acknowledge anything he did. In that period he scored in big games such as Chelsea and City wins yet the talks were always all about Bruno. Martial still got criticized even after those games. His volley against City was hardly talked about while the pass from Bruno got all the attention(the volley was harder to execute than the chip pass by Bruno). He got rated average by loads of Caftards in that City game because he didn't square a ball to Bruno and choose to go for goal himself instead.

At this point people are still talking about him being inconsistent, he's still being criticized for some reasons. Meanwhile by this point starting from February he's already put in a run of consistent performances but for one reason or another it's not perceived this way yet. Of course Bruno is the best player during this run but Martial is also having a great run but not being noticed.

Post lock down Martial carries on his great run and remained consistent to the very end while Bruno tailed off in our last 5 or so games hence why Martial has been more consistent than Bruno since the latter arrival.

Now if you look at the whole season, beside January Martial has had a consistent season. Talks about recency bias couldn't be further from the truth. He's put together a consistent season hence why he deserves POTY, nothing to do with recency bias. Just because some people refused to notice his consistency in past months until recently doesn't mean his consistency this year didn't happen.

Also @Web of Bissaka , since you like stats, here are non bias ones. Martial is our only player that has made the WhoScored team of the season for the PL. That shows his consistency this season, especially compared to the rest of his peers at United. Fan awards doesn't give accurate representation of deserving winners(Martial just lost this July one which should tell you everything you need to know about fan awards).
 
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Clique

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Also using fan voted player of the month award is extremely faulty because they don't say much. Heck Martial didn't win this month player of the month when objectively he should have won it. The award is hugely favorable for new signings and academy players, it's as simple as that. James, Ighalo, Williams, Bruno, Greenwood, McTomminay all fit that category.

People questioning his consistency and throwing the bias opinions couldn't be any more wrong. Consistency wise, Matial has been our most consistent player this year. He's literally only had a single bad month(January) while he's performed at the respectable level at AT LEAST throughout the rest of the months, no other player can have that claim. And I'll break it down to prove this point.

Start of the season Martial starts in fine form in his first 3 games. 2 goals and an assists plus good overall play. He gets injured and sidelined for 2 months.

While he's out we stank up the place and showed our worst form of the season. We went a whole month of football scoring only once in the league. Everyone completely awful and the Rashford detractors reach an all time high. Rashford forced to play as a striker and was quite terrible during that period which lead to him being questioned. Unfortunately those are 2 months he'd love to forget.

Martial finally comes back from injury after 2 months and our game picks up a bit. Rashford restored as an inside forward and he started his blossoming run of the season. By then Rashford indisputably became our best player while Martial himself was one of our better performer and important player but not quite as good as Rashford who was imply in sublime form. At that time we saw the importance of Martial link up play and helping in the midfield because Lingard and Perreira were utterly hopeless. His presence and play was valuable and important in unlocking Rashford and give us any semblance of trying to play decent football even though we were still quite inconsistent as a team.

Came December, Martial has a better month than November(the month he came back after his injury but was integral for us) with games like the Newcastle one as highlight. Now this is practically the first part of the season where he wasn't poor and hadn't had a stinker of a month. After a great start, he unfortunately picked up an injury which sidelined him for 2 months and we played some of the most horrible football ever. Then he came back and helped us play better which also helped Rashford unlock. Decent first half of the season.

Now comes January where he finally got his stinker of a month. This period was quite terrible for us with defeats against Liverpool and the final blow being a defeat against Burnley at home. In that period Martial squandered a great chance against Liverpool(thought he created it) and was quite terrible against Burnley. This month was easily the one were he put a stinker of a month.

Now comes February and we have Bruno. Things finally picks up, we start stringing a bunch of good performance and the start of our unbeaten run which last until our defeat to Chelsea in the FA cup semi final. From this point on Martial becomes a more consistent goal scorer. He doesn't go 2 games he start without scoring almost. Bruno at this point is clearly the best player in the team but Martial is also among our best performer. He's consistently contributing but because he just came out of a bad month and all the love the Caf could muster was going to Bruno, some people just didn't realize how consistently well Martial was already performing.

People were still so bias against Martial that they refused to acknowledge anything he did. In that period he scored in big games such as Chelsea and City wins yet the talks were always all about Bruno. Martial still got criticized even after those games. His volley against City was hardly talked about while the pass from Bruno got all the attention(the volley was harder to execute than the chip pass by Bruno). He got rated average by loads of Caftards in that City game because he didn't square a ball to Bruno and choose to go for goal himself instead.

At this point people are still talking about him being inconsistent, he's still being criticized for some reasons. Meanwhile by this point starting from February he's already put in a run of consistent performances but for one reason or another it's not perceived this way yet. Of course Bruno is the best player during this run but Martial is also having a great run but not being noticed.

Post lock down Martial carries on his great run and remained consistent to the very end while Bruno tailed off in our last game hence why Martial has been more consistent than Bruno since the latter arrival.

Now if you look at the whole season, beside January Martial has had a consistent season. Talks about recency bias couldn't be further from the truth. He's put together a consistent season hence why he deserves POTY, nothing to do with recency bias. Just because some people refused to notice his consistency in past months until recently doesn't mean his consistency this year didn't happen.

Also @Web of Bissaka , since you like stats, here are non bias ones. Martial is our only player that has made the WhoScored team of the season for the PL. That shows his consistency this season, especially compared to the rest of his peer at United. Fan awards doesn't give accurate representation of deserving winners(Martial just lost this July one which should tell you everything you need to know about fan awards).
Good post!
 

OleBoiii

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Martial is our only player that has made the WhoScored team of the season for the PL.
Keep in mind that the WhoScored team of the season only features players with 32 appearances or more. Bruno has a better overall score than Martial, obviously.
 

sammsky1

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The bolded is something @Web of Bissaka seems to be ignoring when evaluating Bruno. Arguably our 5 most important games of our season and he didn't show up. Say what you want about his impact but those 5 games were massive for us and he wasn't the guy that showed up for us, it was Martial which adds more to his integrity for the POTY award.

Couple that with Martial being more consistent than Bruno since the latter arrived and he even has more of a case than him. Not to mention Martial has played a full season unlike Bruno.
And yet despite being totally knackered because OGS thought he could not risk resting him, Bruno still contributes in every game 'he dint show up in' with a goal or assist.

Bruno wins our POTY with ease. Put simply, no Bruno, no unbeaten run or 3rd place. No Bruno, No Martial scoring 20+ goals and looking reborn as the key beneficiary of Bruno joining us.
 

Santoryo

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Keep in mind that the WhoScored team of the season only features players with 32 appearances or more. Bruno has a better overall score than Martial, obviously.
Also keep in mind that Martial has been more consistent than Bruno even starting from when he arrived. Bruno's last 5 or so games impact his overall rating, especially compared to Martial who remained good and clutch in our later games which were arguably our most important of the season.

What would have been the point of clawing our way back into the top 4 battle to then blow it away last minute like last season. Martial showing up big in our last games where the team couldn't perform well due to fatigue is a massive plus.

And yet despite being totally knackered because OGS thought he could not risk resting him, Bruno still contributes in every game 'he dint show up in' with a goal or assist.

Bruno wins our POTY with ease. Put simply, no Bruno, no unbeaten run or 3rd place. No Bruno, No Martial scoring 20+ goals and looking reborn as the key beneficiary of Bruno joining us.
Bruno was one of the reasons our game suffered. Now we can argue all day attributing his drop of level due to fatigue but it doesn't change the fact that he was a contributing factor to our poor plays in our latter games. Martial, Rasford and Greenwood won us our later games and out of all those 3, Martial showed up in all of them.

Solely using stats without context to argue Bruno's case is misleading. In our later games despite him having bad games he still managed to pull off great stats because he takes all set pieces including penalties his teammates win for him.

You talk about Martial not reaching 20 goals without Bruno but the same goes for Bruno. Without Martial to turn his simple square balls into assists after scoring screamers in our last few games, Bruno isn't racking up assists either. Without Martial winning him penalties Bruno doesn't improve his goal stats in his poor games.
 
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Sayros

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And yet despite being totally knackered because OGS thought he could not risk resting him, Bruno still contributes in every game 'he dint show up in' with a goal or assist.

Bruno wins our POTY with ease. Put simply, no Bruno, no unbeaten run or 3rd place. No Bruno, No Martial scoring 20+ goals and looking reborn as the key beneficiary of Bruno joining us.
And what makes you think it doesn't go both ways? No Martial, and Bruno is not having a season worth talking about.
 

E-mal

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someone proves you wrong with evidence, and your only response is to say TLDR :rolleyes:
Basically, you can't be taken seriously.
Am sorry mate, life in itself can't be taken seriously.
I was been sarcastic as I already saw the guys post in Martial's thread trying to support Tony being POTY.
There are stats and their is the naked eye, as far as am concerned our player of the year is between Martial and Rashford with Bruno being a close third.
Whatever is your opinion, you're entitled to it.
 

reddevil80

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I simply voted Rashy as this young man has had a good goalscoring season, 22 in 42 so far and done well with assists too, 10 I think. He achieved these stat's after being out for 3 months with a broken back. He scored 3 and has 3 assists since returning, Bruno has been a breath of fresh air, Pog looks to be playing happy again and Tony has kept up his performances too but, for me, Marcus has been my poty.

The fantastic work he done for starving kids snd families whilst in the middle of all this covid bs has made me admire him even more as a man and this type of selflessness only goes to show how Utd have helped form him as a human being. This also helped me decide him as my poty. A good talisman and inspiration to the youth.
 

OleBoiii

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Also keep in mind that Martial has been more consistent than Bruno even starting from when he arrived.
It doesn't really matter if Bruno's average score is higher. I'll take a 7.5 player with the occasionally 5/10 performance over a player that always gets between 6 and 7.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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I don’t see how anyone can give it to Bruno when he played basically less than half a season, and the last 2-3 weeks of the season he was pretty shit. And please don’t cite G/A stats as they provide 0 context.

I think it’s clearly Martial, but I can understand votes for Maguire as well. I think Rashford drops out just because of his injury and lesser impact after coming back from it.

Also can’t believe people are trying to use Caf ratings as statistical evidence of someone being better.
 

Alemar

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Don't even see how martial is a vote, much less leading the vote.

Rashford, Bruno, and Fred should be the finalists
Rashford scored 15 non-penalty goals this season, compared to 22 non-penalty goals by Martial. Quite a big difference I would have thought. At the same time, Rashford also missed 2 penalties.