Our second goal vs Newcastle

Okey

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I don't think that was as impressive as it sounds. There was a lot of unprogressive back and forthing that nearly lead to a Maguire losing possession.
The 44 pass goal that Citeh scored aginst us (while I was sat in their end at Etihad! for my sins) had quite a good few passes backwards and square. You can't pass forward that many times in a row. Execution of coaching patterns isn't always straightforward. Good players when match fit, will do it to deadly effect in a game, especially if the opponents leave spaces. There's a reason we tend to do well against better sides. We're not as bad as made out against low blocks but lots of room for improvement. If we have a combative midfield press to win the ball against PSG, don't be surprised if we get a good result there.
 

Devil may care

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It was a joy to watch, Bruno's interchange with VdB followed by his lung busting run combined with Rashford's awareness and deft pass which was then superbly finished by the man that started the move was top drawer!
 

The Original

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The 44 pass goal that Citeh scored aginst us (while I was sat in their end at Etihad! for my sins) had quite a good few passes backwards and square. You can't pass forward that many times in a row. Execution of coaching patterns isn't always straightforward. Good players when match fit, will do it to deadly effect in a game, especially if the opponents leave spaces. There's a reason we tend to do well against better sides. We're not as bad as made out against low blocks but lots of room for improvement. If we have a combative midfield press to win the ball against PSG, don't be surprised if we get a good result there.
No doubt passing around has its uses but in this particular case I find it hard to be impressed. It seems so inefficient - if you watch the clip AWB starts off in space with one defender between him and DVB. He makes the run but Pogba doesn't pass. If he gets it here and plays a similar one-two to the one that finally creates his opening, we get the same end result sans 20 passes.
 

Gasolin

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I don't think that was as impressive as it sounds. There was a lot of unprogressive back and forthing that nearly lead to a Maguire losing possession.
Unprogressive? We developed on the left and moved until the box, when it was stuck, we went back and changed side to progress the ball... that's what you do when building up a goal. You try one side, it doesn't work, you try something else, if not, you change side... and yes, you're right, one detail, Maguire missing the ball, would have killed the phase. That's high level football. That's why everything has to be executed well. But the intend, the preparation, the ideas... they are all there, and they are often there with Ole. It's the same with every team when they cannot use speed and directness for the goal, they have to create space. I honestly wonder if people look at those managers they workship, a la Pep or Klopp... it's not much different.
 

LoneStar

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This was a beauty, liked it more than the brighton goal we scored last season.
Was that the glorious counter attack with Matics volleyed pass? That was one of the best goals I’ve seen.
 

Bobcat

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Gonna sound like I’m repeating myself but we have good football players capable of producing excellent moments with excellent phases of play. Do people think we’ll go through the season scoring zero goals and putting together zero decent moves? And when we do suddenly Ole and the rest of our team are great coaches?

It’s called using a bigger sample size. The goal isn’t to play well and play good football every 1 in 5 games because guess what? there are teams out there better than Newcastle and when we play these teams we need more in our armoury to be able to get consistent results.
We need to be able to do something about repeatedly losing at home to Crystal Palace because were too uninventive and lazy to pull apart their parked bus.

We need to be able to do something about always struggling against Southampton’s heavy press. Shit like this.
Honestly if you guys genuinely think Ole, Carrick, McKenna and Phelan are doing their maximum with these players and that we’re going to win big trophies under them at some point, then I advise preparing for massive disappointment.
But you see the discrepancy in logic here no?

When we play well and score good goals, its individual brilliance and because we have good players. If we play like shite its coaching and tactics. Would it not be reasonable to suggest that its a bit of both? Both when we win and when we lose, players and coaches alike need to take some of the credit/blame

Also, football is not that mechanical and if it was it would be incredibly boring because then the teams with the best coaches and the best players would always win. Take Sheffield U for example. They were the big surprise last season and ended up 9th at a very respectable 54 points for a newly promoted side. This season they have been complete shite with 1 point in 5 games. Did both players and coaching staff turn to shit over the summer?
 

Ludens the Red

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But you see the discrepancy in logic here no?

When we play well and score good goals, its individual brilliance and because we have good players. If we play like shite its coaching and tactics. Would it not be reasonable to suggest that its a bit of both? Both when we win and when we lose, players and coaches alike need to take some of the credit/blame

Also, football is not that mechanical and if it was it would be incredibly boring because then the teams with the best coaches and the best players would always win. Take Sheffield U for example. They were the big surprise last season and ended up 9th at a very respectable 54 points for a newly promoted side. This season they have been complete shite with 1 point in 5 games. Did both players and coaching staff turn to shit over the summer?
No discrepancy in logic, not from me anyway. I have been more than happy to criticise players for playing shit this season and in the past. I attribute blame to all responsible parties. Non playing staff and playing staff. I’ve credited Ole in the past if he’s got things right (city away especially)
But again it’s why I’m talking about using a bigger sample size.

As for Sheffield United they caught everyone by surprise last season and played at a maximum. As we’ve seen with promoted clubs who have generally below average individuals as they do, a small drop off in your output and you’re fecked. With us because we have far superior players we can get away with half arsed performances a lot of the time.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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The goal we scored after we’d just completely flattened them with the late winner?
Look at Newcastle’s positioning and how much they’re trying to get to the ball.
Look , we have good football players, we are going to score good goals and play good football, it’s a given.

There is a bigger picture here...
Why didn’t we ever do that under the the three previous managers then..? Oh wait they were gash!
 

Adam-Utd

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It was a good goal, but there was a lot of space to play into. We still struggle with creating chances even if the defence isn't packed. Against Newcastle, we didn't really create a clear cut chance (Fernandes offside goal aside) and they didn't exactly park the bus; they didn't do anything really. It wasn't until it opened up where we actually were able to score goals.

We struggle without space to play into.
think that just comes with confidence.

After the 2nd goal we were buzzing and you can see by the passing, 1 touch football everywhere moving the ball qucikly. To do that early in the game isn't as easy especially after you've just gone 1-0 down.

I do think though when you look at who's involved, it's our best "footballer" in Mata, Van Der Beek and Fernandes.

IMO if we want to play like this then Dan James just doesn't fit at all, he can't play this way. No coincidence for me that once he went off the football stepped up a level.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Err ok...

I don’t think either of any of those goals come close to the Brighton counter or the one against Newcastle in terms of quality and involvement all across the pitch. We have scored much better goals with more greater regularly under Ole then the other 3, that’s not a conicidence. There’s a reason why so many were happy to see the others sacked, because the sucked all the joint out of football for me and many others.
 

kafta

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VdB's movement between the lines and his one touch passing really make us more fluid. I love what i've seen from him so far.
 

Bobcat

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No discrepancy in logic, not from me anyway. I have been more than happy to criticise players for playing shit this season and in the past. I attribute blame to all responsible parties. Non playing staff and playing staff. I’ve credited Ole in the past if he’s got things right (city away especially)
But again it’s why I’m talking about using a bigger sample size.

As for Sheffield United they caught everyone by surprise last season and played at a maximum. As we’ve seen with promoted clubs who have generally below average individuals as they do, a small drop off in your output and you’re fecked. With us because we have far superior players we can get away with half arsed performances a lot of the time.
But you implied that our players would "do much better" under different coaching staff, which may well be true, but i think there is a simple lack of evidence here.

I cant think of many players who has clearly regressed under Ole compared to previous managers. Shaw might be one, but hes not been the same since his legbreak. De Gea is another, but he was on a downward trajctory long before Ole took over, while the likes of Rashford, Martial and Fred have clearly improved

The big thing that has been a problem under Ole has been lack of consistency and people also use this as proof that we are not coached. It sounds reasonable at face value, but honestly i think its a simplistic conclusion. If the bad games are the result of bad coaching, then where does the good games come from? Does Ole simply tell them to "go out and have fun" and let the players make it up as we go along? I find that hard to beleive. If Oles attitude was that cavalier and careless, i doubt he would have much support from the players. because most of them have played under other managers and most of the actually want to win big things so i doubt they would stood by such a careless/clueless manager

That being said, i do think Ole gives the players more freedom than other managers, and especially someone like LvG who, as we all rememeber, was a complete control freak without it resulting in much