Our squad now vs the squad Ole inherited

[Pogue Mahone]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.

 

[Orton]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal problem is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?


Discuss.

Agreed with all of this. Players have been allowed to express themselves on an individual basis under Ole. Some have looked good and most underwhelming especially considering the outlay. Rashford and Greenwood need to be put on the right path to progress from talents to potential top players. The tools for them are there but the final piece was never going to be unlocked under that regime. Would probably say the same for some of the midfield too, especially Bruno. I’m more worried that the defence has gone backwards but then Tuchel did come in when Chelsea were leaking goals left right and centre and now look at them. What a turnaround.

 

[DOTA]

I think it's a lot stronger broadly speaking but different managers have different tactics that require different players with different skills etc, so very much depends on who comes in as to what they'd need to do to get it working for them.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think the squad is better than when he found it, but the past 5 odd weeks have shown we still have weaknesses. His squad rebuild is certainly overstated by some, but I do feel it's a good squad to walk into.

 

[PoTMS]

I think a better question would be our squad then vs our squad in the summer. We'll be missing quite a few first XI quality players with this season being officially branded a write off.

 

[Infra-red]

While I generally agree with the OP, I do also feel that there is so much talent in the forward positions (particularly if we can get Sancho firing) that we will be blowing teams away once the players receive some proper coaching in how to use the ball more effectively.

We're in urgent need of a deep-lying passing midfielder and a competent RB, though.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Front four sorted for now.

Keep VdB, ship Pogba out. Bench Shaw. Strip Maguire of captaincy. Intensive crossing course for AWB, he's been good recently - better than Shaw. Sign DM. Get rid of Lingard, Mata, Pereira, Bailly and probably Martial. I'm sure this has been attempted before but their high salaries make it prohibitive.

Overall I think the new manager is in quite a good position but has some tough decisions to make. Certainly I think this is a challenge that top-level managers would relish at the minute. When Mou left I'd say nobody wanted to touch the job with a bargepole. So things have improved, but it's hard not to improve things when you spend £400million as well.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Maguire is not good enough. I'd feel that way if he cost 18 million. The fact that it was EIGHTY beggars belief.

 

[sebsheep]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.

I think there is a decent chance VDB stays now, not sure about Pogba or Lingard.
Mata, Matic, Jones and Pereira should be moved on.
Probably our last season with DDG.
AWB and Dalot don't look close to top club players right now, nor does Maguire but he'll probably stay on.
Martial may get a chance depending on the manager.
Kinda weird how many players we still to bring in really.

 

[Ixion]

I dont believe for a second this squad is good enough to win the title but that's what people keep crediting Ole with for some strange reason

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the squad is better than when he found it, but the past 5 odd weeks have shown we still have weaknesses. His squad rebuild is certainly overstated by some, but I do feel it's a good squad to walk into.

Seems so crazy to me how often we hear about this great rebuild when only one of his signings (Bruno) has been an undisputed success. And even Bruno poses some challenges for a manager in terms of how to best use him. And this is after three years and hundreds of millions spent!

 

[stw2022]

Given how he assembled a bunch of players he doesn't know how to use as much as he did the team he initially inherited the whole thing about he deserves credit for improving the team on paper never made sense to me.

 

[sp_107]

He added "Varane / Sancho / DVB / Maguire / Bruno / Greenwood / Amad / Telles " on top of Rashford / Martial / DDG/Shaw..Not bad overall

AWB was only his expensive mistake in my eyes, Maguire next to Varane will come good under proper coaching/manager

 

[eire-red]

I think the squad is a he'll of a lot better, both in terms of character and quality. I'll never forget watching the likes of Pereira, Rojo, Bailly, Smalling, Young etc starting on a consistent basis.

We have actual quality in the squad at the moment, despite the terrible run of results. The squad looks like one that has lost all sense of direction and leadership, but a new manager is coming in and looking at his squad and his options are Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, Pogba, Shaw, Sancho, Maguire, Greenwood, van de Beek, DDG, Lindelof... Some genuine match winners there.

If we hire a manager who cannot get a tune out of that squad, then that's another failure of an appointment. Perhaps we need a midfielder or two, but there's absolutely enough quality in the squad for someone to come in and hit the ground running.

 

[Fooza]

The sales of VDB was just wasting money which needs addressing, and not letting players go like Lingard for cash to improve our centre mid by getting a top quality DM was the biggest mistake in the window.

Our defence is a shambles, defensively it can be improved however players like AWB are not good enough in attack and needs replacing.

Midfield needs an overhaul and needs balancing.

Attacking wise our strikers will need an overhaul soon.

 

[Ixion]

I think the squad is a he'll of a lot better, both in terms of character and quality.

You've watched the team this season and think we've shown character?

 

[thegregster]

De Gea,Ronaldo,Bruno and Greenwood if he continues to develop are up to the standard. Varane and Cavani are too injury prone to be relied upon.

DVB could be. We will soon find out. Rashford is a tricky one to call. Two 20 goals seasons in a row but still it feels as if he isnt consistent enough. Amad deserves a chance as well to prove himself.

None of the rest are United quality. They all should be moved on.

 

[Godfather]

Don't know if there's actually much to discuss. I agree with you Pogue. Much to do for the next manager.

 

[Cutch]

I think if we manage to get an elite manager in we'll all see just how good this squad is. It's stacked in quality, just lacking direction and coaching. Even the much maligned Maguire and Fred look good when they pull an international jersey on. We've forgotten how good some of these players are

 

[Remember the geese]

De Gea,Ronaldo,Bruno and Greenwood if he continues to develop are up to the standard. Varane and Cavani are too injury prone to be relied upon.

DVB could be. We will soon find out. Rashford is a tricky one to call. Two 20 goals seasons in a row but still it feels as if he isnt consistent enough. Amad deserves a chance as well to prove himself.

None of the rest are United quality. They all should be moved on.

De Gea is far from the required standard.

 

[VanDeBank]

Ole has also neglected the DM and GK position so I'm not buying this whole "he'll leave behind a great squad for the next manager", even though I was fooled at the start of the season. Assuming Cavani, Pogba, Lingard walk:

Rashford Ronaldo Sancho
Fred DM Bruno
Shaw CB Varane RB
GK

Elanga Greenwood Amad
VDB Matic McTominay
Telles Lindelof Bailly Laird
Henderson Heaton

He's spent like 300m and we still have so many gaping holes. Even if Sancho wins the Ballon D'or it was a silly signing. He's signed players in the wrong areas. Sancho VDB Ronaldo aren't players we needed (despite me liking all 3). The average CAF member that knows some names from football manager would have done a better job in that regard.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

The upside is that aside from the oldies up front, almost all of our best players are all at good ages and have potential for growth. And we do have some great talent, mostly in the attacking positions.

I believe our defence can mostly be fixed without buying players, I can't explain what's happened this season but it's not that there isn't quality there. They should be and historically have been much better. Varane should be a big boost

Midfield is definitely the biggest concern, and we need to buy. Probably two players, honestly. But I think our squad overall is in decent shape for a new manager, and better than when Ole came in, though you're right that it should be given the money spent

 

[Massive Spanner]

It’s a better squad, but weirdly he was given loads of credit for getting rid of the bloat and thinning the wage bill yet we now have a much better wage bill than when he took over, and still have players like Jones and Lingard here contributing nothing, with the biggest net spend of any manager post SAF. And we still need to spend big when the next manager comes in to sort out areas like midfield.

 

[Hoof the ball]

The main issue for the next manager is that they're inheriting a hugely top-heavy side, and the tactics reflect that. Ole has built a team to bypass midfield and hit vertical balls to players that line up more or less like a 4-2-4. If you're Ten Hag, you're looking at the squad and wondering how you're going to implement a possession dominant side when the midfield options are Matic, Fred, McTominay, Pogba and VdB. So, if Ole has made us more top heavy and exacerbated the imbalance of the squad by not investing in CM/DM, then it's difficult to see why we're that much better.

The next manager cannot play all of Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Amad, Sancho, Lingard in the same IX, right? This is the imbalance. Maybe the 70m for Sancho should have went to a CM instead. Or the 30m for Amad. Maybe Lingard sold too for a CM. Ole is majorly responsible for the next manager having next to no options for a balanced midfield trio/duo.

 

[M Bison]

Personally I think we’re in great shape for the next manager.

Midfield remains an issue but the defence is at least top 4 and attacking wise we’re as good as any team out there, and even with Ronaldo ageing, having Greenwood on the cusp with Sancho and Rashford either side is fantastic imo. I do think a new manager will reshuffle the midfield and would expect to see Bruno deeper, with VdB playing more, but don’t expect any investment in summer.

The worry I have is the new-manager bounce Pogba will have and ending up with a new contract!

 

[eire-red]

You've watched the team this season and think we've shown character?

Clearly not in last month, something fundamentally has shifted and the wheels have come off. That can happen in football, it doesn't mean that the entire squad is useless. But if you're only at 95%, it's enough at this level to see a run like this.

Having said that, how many comebacks have we seen under Ole? Even yesterday, when we got to 2-1, I felt we were going to end up beating Watford 5-2 until the Maguire red. Atalanta, Villareal, West Ham this season, countless comebacks last season.

Under Mourinho and LVG, if we conceded first, then that felt like the game was gone. So yeah, I definitely do think that we have more characters in the squad now. Let's not be quick to brand the lot of them as useless, I mean look at Chelsea under Tuchel. Most of that squad looked completely rudderless under Lampard.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Way more depth now. When Ole took over he mostly had to play a shitty Lingard and Pereira + relied on Mata and we had no individualists. Now we have tons of individualists and with the right manager we should be able to compete with a few transfers.

Ole also developed the bigger players better than Mou who rarely got anything good out of Pogba, Rashford and Martial.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

I find this circular argument of players being good enough or not needs to be had in context with a top level coach or coaching.

At Utd, players have not had this for years so there is a 'cause and effect' argument to be had. Guardiola has bought good players and improved them, same can be said of Klopp and Tuchel. At Utd we defer to the tired old aspects of emotion, passion and 'Utd way' and relegate the fundamental issue of top level coaching to the back. Will the board take stock of this situation and address this for the longer term benefit of the club...I very much doubt it!

 

[Ixion]

In Jose's two full league seasons we conceded less than 30 goals and we've conceded 21 so far this season.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Need a striker in summer and need to move ronaldo on, unless we bring in a manager that wants to play 2 up top or we just commit to ronaldo being an impact sub, which seems fanciful

beyond that need surgery on midfield, but might be greatly improved by one good addition

so i think if we got a striker and a centre mid in summer we were be in fine shape again. obviously if it is zidane we are likely to get pogba to stay and maybe lessen brunos impact on games. was it zidane who moved ronaldo on from madrid ?

 

[golden_blunder]

It’s a better squad, but weirdly he was given loads of credit for getting rid of the bloat and thinning the wage bill yet we now have a much better wage bill than when he took over, and still have players like Jones and Lingard here contributing nothing, with the biggest net spend of any manager post SAF. And we still need to spend big when the next manager comes in to sort out areas like midfield.

Jones is recovering, so I think that’s a bit harsh to include him. Prior to receiving his new contract he was playing in the 1st team, in the England squad and then he received a career threatening injury. Not sure what the lad was supposed to contribute

 

[Maluco]

I think, if the manager succession had been handled appropriately, that a skilled manager wouldn’t be too far away.

We need to get in a defensive midfielder, a right back and a center back. If we persuade Donny to stay, I think he has the chance to make a real impact under a coach with a clear vision and plan.

Maguire should go. He is tainted as a symbol of an old regime. He is also slow and clumsy and isn’t a modern centre back that would allow a new coach any tactical flexibility. I had high hopes but he just isn’t up to it.

I don’t think we are far away from having a really good team that could be great to watch.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

It's a better squad but the midfield really is a wasteland, almost look at it and think it's been built in protest at the principles of modern football, include Bruno in that.

 

[mu4c_20le]

 

[bosnian_red]

Nah our squad is very good now. It is weird that we're prepared to throw away the full season though and not bother with a permanent manager now. We have a squad ready to win now, and there's so much to play for this season... yet we're just giving up on it. In November. Wild stuff.

Whoever does take charge will have an excellent squad to build around though. Varane is a world class CB. Maguire has been shit but is a good CB. Lindelof is very good depth, probably would make a decent starter next to Varane tbh. De Gea and Henderson are both decent keepers and not a problem but also not Allisson level. Shaw was brilliant last year, and we have Telles as depth. Wan Bissaka is a solid young RB, some weaknesses but a good coach should be making good use out of him. The midfield situation is a bit of a mess but Fred is a very good player and important for Brazil, but needs the right system. Van de Beek surely has more to show. Pogba will just leave in the summer and that situation will be sorted out. Our attack is littered with top class individuals who just need a coach to put it all together. Needs trimming, but there's a great future front 3 with Sancho, Rashford and Greenwood.

The biggest thing our team lacks is coaching. The board and seemingly some fans have been fooled into thinking a team with enough good players can get by without a good coach it's a load of shit. We need a good coach who has the right vision with what to do with the squad, and the ability to execute that. Just like not everybody can be a good player and no amount of work rate can make them good enough, the same applies to managers and coaches. There are levels to this. We need a coaching team of the right level.

 

[JB7]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.

So to run through it:

Goalkeeper: DDG is nowhere near good enough and is actually one of our biggest problems to be honest, shouldn't even be in the team ahead of Henderson. He creates panic in the defence and the amount of saves he makes because of situations he didn't deal with at an earlier stage is ridiculous. Yes, he's a brilliant shot stopper but he would have an awful lot less saves to make if he came off his line to deal with balls into the box and if the defenders could sit higher because they knew he was backing them up in and out of possession. Is Henderson the answer? I don't know, possibly not. But it was no coincidence that all of our performance metrics improved last season with him in goal and he should be our #1 at the this season.

Defence: Maguire and Varane will be a good pairing. Maguire obviously has been dreadful this season but we have seen enough over the previous two years to see that he is a good player. He actually suffers more than any other player from the goalkeeper problem as he instinctively looks to the goalkeeper at times when balls come into the box and in that split second the striker gets the edge on him and it is no coincidence that his performances are on another level in front of an offensive goalkeeper such as Pickford for England or even in front of Henderson & before him Romero at United. AWB is another badly off his game, I question if he will be good enough long term, he is very inconsistent - Dalot is no competition which is why the club want Trippier. Shaw has been dreadful of late but does have another level in him, but I think Telles is a more than able deputy and should be used more.

Midfield: Like you say, the big problem area. McTominay and Fred weirdly clicked last season and when playing together against good sides they played above themselves. However this season obviously that hasn't happened. I actually think both are more suited to a 4-3-3 than being holding players in a 4-2-3-1, I think a lot of our issues have stemmed from the rigidity of the system. I see both as squad players at best really and as such obviously we do need a midfielder or two, certainly a holding player to come in and play the ball progressively forward, a Rice type player. I think we may see a new lease of life for DVB, he clearly has ability and while I don't think the criticism against Ole was fair last season for not playing him - I cannot understand why he hasn't been given opportunities this year, his link up with Sancho was one of the few positives of yesterday, again I think he is a player who may flourish in a 4-3-3, particularly if we can get Bruno disciplined enough to drop back as part of the 3. I think it is time to move on from Pogba and Matic.

Attack: Think we are well set in attack. The potential in a Sancho-Greenwood-Rashford front three is ridiculous. Ronaldo and Cavani are two of the best pros possible for them to look up to and learn from. I don't see a future with us for Martial to be honest.

 

[Longshanks]

Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.

Midfield
Pogba should hopefully be gone, V.D.B should stay and play hopefully. Need a CDM, matic is past it. Mctom and Fred are OK squad players. Bruno top quality AM. CDM is a priority.

Defence
Maguires form is awful, but he has largely been good for us, hopefully new manager will be like breath of fresh air to him. A.W.B has some good things about his game and then some not so good things is he good enough going forward? Probably not, could do with a good attacking full back as a different option. Varane, Shaw, lindelof telles and bailly are all worth keeping hold off.

Attack
New no9 probably will be required at some point in the not to distant future but in sancho, Greenwood and rashford with the likes of diallo and pellestri aswell with have the potential of a very potent attack.

GK
Alongside the desperate need for a CDM this is our biggest problem. De Gea is a massive issue for us brilliant shot stopper but he's become very error prone and he's even more passive than he was when he first joined and he's distinctly average with the ball at his feet. Because of his passiveness the defence ends up deeper and we are constantly heading or scrambling the ball out from our own six yard box and then struggling to clear our lines and the pressure builds and builds and we lose control of the game. Henderson i don't think is the answer but he should be playing because at the very least he is alot more assertive than De Gea. We need a serious upgrade in this department.

 

[Gehrman]

Want to see what another manager can do with the squad. Maguire sure as hell has been wank this season, but I still believe he can become more consistent. It's really hard to see becoming a PL/CL winning team unless with get one of the best managers in the world. We can spend money because we're Man Utd, but it's useless without a WC manager. Midfield is a gaping problem despite all the money we've spent on it.

 

[talking robot]

I figure Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, Cavani, Henderson, and Martial will be gone this summer, and if we're lucky we'll recoup about 50 million pounds. That'll clear up quite a bit of wage space, and if the new manager brings in a top striker to compete with Ronaldo (e.g. Haaland), top DM, and half decent RB I think the squad can be in decent shape for next season. A decent manager could probably get a group like that close to a title challenge, with a first choice looking like this:

-----------------------De Gea------------------
AWB-------Varane-----Maguire-----Shaw
------------------VDB-----DM---------------------
----------------------Fernandes------------
Sancho----------Striker----------Greenwood

Bench options look reasonably strong:
New RB
Bailly
Lindelof
Telles
McTominay
Fred
Ronaldo
Rashford

The new manager would have to be attractive enough for top players to want to sign, and the club would have to be organized enough to make the top quality transfers happen. I'm not at all confident that we will do that, but a decent season for 2022-2023 is possible with the base of players currently in place.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Keepers is a problem. De gea is a great shot stopper but he lacks too much . Give Henderson a run and try to improve. Try to somehow sell De Gea.

Defenders are in a good spot. In a dream scenario we sell Maguire to Newcastle and buy a new cb with pace but even with our current four CBS it's a solid unit. Fullback could be a concern.

Midfield is the huge crater in the team. Need two signings or resign Pobga and keep Donny plus one signing.

I'm happy with our attacking options. Greenwood and martial can play through the middle. We have amad, Sancho, Rashford and Elanga.