Our team selection against Spurs...

[Rozay]

Now ‘what ifs’ are of course inconclusive, but I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this.

Spurs are just above average and were there for the taking. We started that game with Pogba, Matic and Greenwood on the bench - and we dropped two points. Two points in the home stretch where every point is crucial. I can’t help but think that not going with our better football players may prove costly for us this season. From Ole’s comments around the match, it seems that he selected some players out of loyalty perhaps, and there just isn’t any room for that at this stage. James, McTominay and Fred have not started a league game since then, and we’ve won all of them comfortably. Was a huge mistake from Ole I think, much as I love him.

 

[Bwuk]

Pogba should of started without question.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's a shame we were overly cautious but we can't live on 'what ifs'. What matters is that in this moment, our fate is in our hands & if we win every game we are guaranteed to finish top four.

If we do fail to make the CL, dropping two points away at Spurs isn't going to be where we lost it, losing to Palace, West Ham, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley etc is what screwed us this season.

 

[Raw]

I think Ole just wasn't ready to try out the team we go with now in the first game after the break. Probably wanted to go with something safe in a game as big as that, after all the hype during lockdown.

That being said, we weren't bad. The goal we conceded was just a silly mistake. It's just more annoying looking back at the result now.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Pogba has been injured all season while Scott & Fred have been playing in our midfield most of the time this season and performed very well. They were part of the starting XI who beats the likes of Leicester, Chelsea, City, Spurs & drew to Liverpool. The selection against Spurs makes sense, I don't know why people don't understand why the manager did it. Move on.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I think Ole just wasn't ready to try out the team we go with now in the first game after the break. Probably wanted to go with something safe in a game as big as that, after all the hype during lockdown.

That being said, we weren't bad. The goal we conceded was just a silly mistake. It's just more annoying looking back at the result now.

I agree, you can criticise Ole for a safe call but we were a poor series of mistakes from winning the game anyway.

 

[SirScholes]

he started with the team that was doing brilliant before lockdown
He made the right call

 

[bond19821982]

We could also have lost and dropped prints. It works both ways ( considering our away form has not been great )

 

[bosnian_red]

Nah he made the right call. We made enough chances to win that game, they had nothing apart from a random solo goal where we reacted slowly to close down. Hard place to play, was always going to be a low scoring game and especially being first game after the lockdown, big part was probably the actual fitness of the players which makes sense.

 

[Rozay]

Pogba has been injured all season while Scott & Fred have been playing in our midfield most of the time this season and performed very well. They were part of the starting XI who beats the likes of Leicester, Chelsea, City, Spurs & drew to Liverpool. The selection against Spurs makes sense, I don't know why people don't understand why the manager did it. Move on.

So basically he owed them to start them? Players that he knew before the game were not as good as what he had on the bench?

 

[Rozay]

he started with the team that was doing brilliant before lockdown
He made the right call

So right that he replaced three of them the very next game and hasn’t started them since then? How does that make it ‘right’ to start them against Spurs, other than it being ‘morally’ right or whatever? If that was the right team, why not give them more than one game? After all, they had done so well before the lockdown. They ‘deserve’ to remain as the first XI no?

And in any case, Matic was part of the team that was playing well before lockdown, not so much McTominay.

 

[Manny]

The team has just evolved since so I have no issues with the team selection at the time.

I certainly would not have just thrown Pogba into such an important game and risk upsetting what was good chemistry in midfield and attack.

 

[AltiUn]

Before the game I thought he made the right call, although in hindsight he should've definitely started Pogba. I don't know why he started James, he's been in poor form for absolutely ages. Definitely 2 points dropped but I think we've learned our lesson now as frustrating as that result is.

 

[edcunited1878]

Why such a revisionist OP and thread? People think that rolling out an in form starting XI would have automatically assumed that the same players would have hit the ground running after the suspension of the league?

The quality of players the first 3 months of the season and lack of goal scoring/chance creation for two goals per game is what has held back United and directly contributed to their fight and struggle for a top 4 finish.

It's never, ever that straightforward and reeks of desperation that of questioning a first XI selection against Spurs. United had their chances to win and conversely, if Greenwood started and wasn't able to finish the entire 90 mins, then James would have been subbed in for him and probably wouldn't have fashioned a chance like Greenwood did at the very end of the match. Damn VAR over-ruled a second penalty to United, so if VAR wasn't around United probably would have won...but that's all hindsight. Move on.

 

[Sylar]

What if DDG doesn't allow the shot through him or Maguire doesn't allow the guy space to shoot...

 

[SirScholes]

So right that he replaced three of them the very next game and hasn’t started them since then? How does that make it ‘right’ to start them against Spurs, other than it being ‘morally’ right or whatever? If that was the right team, why not give them more than one game? After all, they had done so well before the lockdown. They ‘deserve’ to remain as the first XI no?

And in any case, Matic was part of the team that was playing well before lockdown, not so much McTominay.

Because you are using hindsight

The team looked on top form, lockdown ends so you now go in with a very similar lineup, Fred and mctom were winning a lot of plaudits for their partnership.

the next game is an easier fixture for me so more chances to try something new, those players took their chances and have been doing so ever since

 

[Santoryo]

Heck had Ole brought on Pogba and Greenwood at the start of the second half and i think we'd have likely won that game. Ole was just unnecessarily too cautious like most caftards at the time("don't play Pogba in midfield 2, we'll get exposed defensively" etc). I couldn't for the life of me understand why we'd look to throw in all those runners in Scott and Fred against Mourinho's Spurs who were definitely never going to look to control the midfield but instead sit deep and compact.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

So basically he owed them to start them? Players that he knew before the game were not as good as what he had on the bench?

If players have been playing very well and we winning games against the top teams with them then why do we need to drop them for a player who has been missing lot of months of football? Pogba needs to earn his spot back just like the others and he earns it from the Spurs game.

If Pogba starts, there is no guarantee he was sharp enough to start in big game after missing lot of months of football and people would make the same thread criticise the manager for it. It was a reasonable good reason from the manager and it seems you have difficulty to understand it.

 

[Rozay]

Because you are using hindsight

The team looked on top form, lockdown ends so you now go in with a very similar lineup, Fred and mctom were winning a lot of plaudits for their partnership.

the next game is an easier fixture for me so more chances to try something new, those players took their chances and have been doing so ever since

It isn’t hindsight to say that Pogba and Matic are better players than Scott and Fred. Nor that Greenwood is better than James. Not only did I know that before the Spurs game, but Ole knew that too. Whatever reasoning he applied to his selection, it surely wasn’t that the XI he chose was the best he had available. The replacements played for 20-odd minutes. Managers don’t change a third of a team they thought is their strongest team over a 20 minute spell. He won’t drop Matic, Pogba and Greenwood for Scott, Fred and James if we draw against Villa.

The players he is playing now are playing because he knows they are better. It appears that, despite knowing this, he felt it was ‘fairer’ to start the other players who had been holding the fort (not that James was holding any sort of fort, or that Matić was not in fine form before the lockdown anyway!). He knew those players were not as good, but thought he could get away with playing them while he ‘gradually introduced’ a returning Pogba, and ‘managed’ a young Greenwood. I believe it was a mistake. We can’t guarantee we would have beaten Spurs with our strongest team, but common sense would suggest that we’d do best we can with our strongest team - just as we did (our best) for 20 minutes in that game when we played our strongest team.

 

[el3mel]

We were totally dominating the game and everything looked like we were going to win easily till their lucky goal that came from a feck up from Maguire and De Gea so I don't see any reasons for talking about this match. Lineup and subs were spot on in this day.

 

[Rozay]

If players have been playing very well and we winning games against the top teams with them then why do we need to drop them for a player who has been missing lot of months of football? Pogba needs to earn his spot back just like the others and he earns it from the Spurs game.

If Pogba starts, there is no guarantee he was sharp enough to start in big game after missing lot of months of football and people would make the same thread criticise the manager for it. It was a reasonable good reason from the manager and it seems you have difficulty to understand it.

If all it takes is 20 minutes for a player to ‘earn his place back’ then I think I can reasonably ask what the fecking point was in the first place. Regardless of how well the stand-ins did, Ole knew Pogba was better than Scott and Fred before the Spurs game. The game itself wasn’t the best game Pogba has ever played, nor was it the worst that Scott or Fred had ever player. All that happened was that we saw that Pogba is better than Scott and Fred, which we already knew.

If the decision was so right because of all the great football those guys had played, then they would have had more football since that game. They’ve not been seen again except for when games were finished, from the very next game. What about all those months of great form you speak of? Why isn’t Pogba still having to earn his place? Was a 20 minute demonstration that he can pass and dribble better than the others all it took? We should have just not bothered and started him then. AND Greenwood and Matic, which you seem to be ignoring.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Now ‘what ifs’ are of course inconclusive, but I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this.

Spurs are just above average and were there for the taking. We started that game with Pogba, Matic and Greenwood on the bench - and we dropped two points. Two points in the home stretch where every point is crucial. I can’t help but think that not going with our better football players may prove costly for us this season. From Ole’s comments around the match, it seems that he selected some players out of loyalty perhaps, and there just isn’t any room for that at this stage. James, McTominay and Fred have not started a league game since then, and we’ve won all of them comfortably. Was a huge mistake from Ole I think, much as I love him.

I think that’s fitness.

 

[Rood]

we were in good form before lockdown so its absolutely right that he rewarded those who played before

no way Pogba should have started, Matic perhaps

 

[Rozay]

We were totally dominating the game and everything looked like we were going to win easily till their lucky goal that came from a feck up from Maguire and De Gea so I don't see any reasons for talking about this match. Lineup and subs were spot on in this day.

The game was even, and we created nothing except a snap shot from Rashford. If the selection was beyond reproach, we should have gone with the same team against Sheffield United. Things don’t change over a 20 minute spell if your team is the strongest team.

 

[SirScholes]

It isn’t hindsight to say that Pogba and Matic are better players than Scott and Fred. Nor that Greenwood is better than James. Not only did I know that before the Spurs game, but Ole knew that too. Whatever reasoning he applied to his selection, it surely wasn’t that the XI he chose was the best he had available. The replacements played for 20-odd minutes. Managers don’t change a third of a team they thought is their strongest team over a 20 minute spell. He won’t drop Matic, Pogba and Greenwood for Scott, Fred and James if we draw against Villa.

The players he is playing now are playing because he knows they are better. It appears that, despite knowing this, he felt it was ‘fairer’ to start the other players who had been holding the fort (not that James was holding any sort of fort, or that Matić was not in fine form before the lockdown anyway!). He knew those players were not as good, but thought he could get away with playing them while he ‘gradually introduced’ a returning Pogba, and ‘managed’ a young Greenwood. I believe it was a mistake. We can’t guarantee we would have beaten Spurs with our strongest team, but common sense would suggest that we’d do best we can with our strongest team - just as we did (our best) for 20 minutes in that game when we played our strongest team.

It wasn’t those players that cost us that game it was a howler from the defence, we were looking far more worthy winners

he played the “team” that up until that point had been are strongest all season
It’s not morally correct it’s just correct, we didn’t know how well pogba would play with fernandes or how much protection that would give our back line
Given the nature of the spurs goal having a more mobile midfield was probably the right call
Greenwood was in and out the starting 11 so playing a young 18yr old or James, I dunno I don’t like James at all tbh so I can’t really say why he started. I genuinely would have lingard over James and I can’t stand him

Overtly critical for me

 

[Idxomer]

I was complaining to a friend about team selection even before the game. It didn't make a sense dropping Matic for McTominay and starting with Rashford but not Pogba. If he actually went with the same eleven he started against City, that would've been more understandable.

 

[Rozay]

we were in good form before lockdown so its absolutely right that he rewarded those who played before

no way Pogba should have started, Matic perhaps

This isn’t school. They were playing at the time because a better player was unavailable. They had no impact on the match while a better player was on the bench but there is no chance at all that it was the wrong call?

 

[SirScholes]

The game was even, and we created nothing except a snap shot from Rashford. If the selection was beyond reproach, we should have gone with the same team against Sheffield United. Things don’t change over a 20 minute spell if your team is the strongest team.

Different opponent different strategy different venue you can’t compare

 

[el3mel]

The game was even, and we created nothing except a snap shot from Rashford. If the selection was beyond reproach, we should have gone with the same team against Sheffield United. Things don’t change over a 20 minute spell if your team is the strongest team.

Watch the first 30 minutes again then. We were totally dominating it and Spurs didn't look like scoring or even threatening us. It all looked like matter of time before we score. They only turned the tide after the drink break disturbed our momentum. Problem is mentally wise we seem to struggle to adapt quickly to the game when we go down, and pass through a period of shock for few minutes before regaining control. Happened in the Norwich game as well.

Changing the team against Sheffield was right too. Pogba did pretty well when he was subbed on and they were going to do nothing bar defend so we needed more attacking force in this. It kicked on from their and the midfield unit worked, but against Spurs we did the right move back then, based on how the team was performing before the break and how we dominated the game prior to their goal.

I don't find anything to fault Ole with since the break. I was one of his biggest critics but he has been doing his job 10/10 recently.

 

[Rood]

This isn’t school. They were playing at the time because a better player was unavailable. They had no impact on the match while a better player was on the bench but there is no chance at all that it was the wrong call?

Well i think it was the right call on Pogba for sure - Matic maybe not

It was also correct to introduce Pogba slowly, hes barely played all season and came back too quickly at Xmas

 

[Rozay]

It wasn’t those players that cost us that game it was a howler from the defence, we were looking far more worthy winners

he played the “team” that up until that point had been are strongest all season
It’s not morally correct it’s just correct, we didn’t know how well pogba would play with fernandes or how much protection that would give our back line
Given the nature of the spurs goal having a more mobile midfield was probably the right call
Greenwood was in and out the starting 11 so playing a young 18yr old or James, I dunno I don’t like James at all tbh so I can’t really say why he started. I genuinely would have lingard over James and I can’t stand him

Overtly critical for me

I didn’t say they cost us the game. They just didn’t win it. A better team may well have just won us the game, due to creating and scoring some goals perhaps. Given the nature of our own goal, some better players on for longer may have won us the game. He played the team that had been the strongest all season, that were 5th in the league. They weren’t the strongest because they has objectively played better than Pogba either, he hadn’t been available. The team needed to get better.

I don’t think people can still take this stand on this whole ‘Pogba needed to earn his place’. When everyone was discussing that during the lockdown, I doubt anyone anticipated earning his place would take 20 minutes. If it was so right, we should have continued with the team who had been the best all season. Keep playing Scott and Fred and giving Pogba a run-out. That stopped immediately because Pogba is better than the other two, and obviously part of our strongest XI. Apparently, it wasn’t obvious before 20 minutes against Spurs. Is that it really?

And Greenwood was 18 then, and was still 18 a week later, when Ole decided he needed to start him every match. Because he is better than James, I presume. Just as he was before the Spurs game. Fact is, we didn’t go with our best team in that game, and we didn’t win it. We can’t guarantee we would have won it either way, but if we went with our best team and failed to, at least we would know it wasn’t because we had better players on the bench than we did on the pitch. As it stands, there is scope to question the team selection. We played a weaker team than we have in the other games, and got a worse result. How can the lineup not be questioned? Especially when everyone has been so happy for us to never play that lineup again since?

 

[Rozay]

Well i think it was the right call on Pogba for sure - Matic maybe not

It was also correct to introduce Pogba slowly, hes barely played all season and came back too quickly at Xmas

Well he’s not been held back since Spurs so that plan has gone out of the window.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I think Pogba starting from the bench after such a long lay off made sense and he always had the ability to come on and change the game. However, I think Greenwood should have played as Ole should have known we would dominate the play. Perhaps more shocking than that was not starting Matic over McTomminay. McTomminay had a bit of a shocker and think if we started Matic we would have retained possession better and likely won the game. Ahh well, we can't get bogged down now and Ole has got far more right than wrong.

 

[Rood]

Well he’s not been held back since Spurs so that plan has gone out of the window.

Bournemouth was first time hes played 90mins

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If all it takes is 20 minutes for a player to ‘earn his place back’ then I think I can reasonably ask what the fecking point was in the first place. Regardless of how well the stand-ins did, Ole knew Pogba was better than Scott and Fred before the Spurs game. The game itself wasn’t the best game Pogba has ever played, nor was it the worst that Scott or Fred had ever player. All that happened was that we saw that Pogba is better than Scott and Fred, which we already knew.

If the decision was so right because of all the great football those guys had played, then they would have had more football since that game. They’ve not been seen again except for when games were finished, from the very next game. What about all those months of great form you speak of? Why isn’t Pogba still having to earn his place? Was a 20 minute demonstration that he can pass and dribble better than the others all it took? We should have just not bothered and started him then. AND Greenwood and Matic, which you seem to be ignoring.

You're not reading mate. There is no guarantee that he's sharp enough to even start in the big game. We've seen lot of players came back after this 3 months postpone pandemic with injuries like Xhaka and other players in Bundesliga & PL, even Rashford didn't look sharp in the Spurs game. And Pogba is a player who has been injured for much longer than Rashford, Xhaka and those people who got injured in the first game of restart. If Pogba end up being injured, people like you would made the thread and bashing the manager managed his players wrongly and we have seen this happened before.

Manager decided not to rush the players in big game, player came on, played very well & made big influence in the game to earn his starting spot next game. A very understandable man management from the manager.

James has been performing well against top sides and did well in his last game against City while Greenwood didn't perform against Everton when Ole last started him. James didn't perform against Spurs and he was dropped next game. I don't know what's the issue here about Matic, when we beat the likes of City, Chelsea, Spurs & Leicester with both Scott & Fred in midfield.

 

[100]

He's had a few shocker lineups this season but Spurs away wasn't one imo. Just a typical difficult away game lineup with lots of runners. I wasn't expecting Spurs to be so poor. Almost every team was disappointing with their first game back.

 

[Rozay]

Different opponent different strategy different venue you can’t compare

You do realise Sheffield United had been clearly better than Spurs all season at that point right? We beat them comfortably because we had much better footballers than them. If we had Scott, Fred and James - our XI would have been closer to theirs in terms of quality. The game was billed as a key CL contest, it was meant to be just as tough.

 

[Rozay]

You're not reading mate. There is no guarantee that he's sharp enough to even start in the big game. We've seen lot of players came back after this 3 months postpone pandemic with injuries like Xhaka and other players in Bundesliga & PL, even Rashford didn't look sharp in the Spurs game. And Pogba is a player who has been injured for much longer than Rashford, Xhaka and those people who got injured in the first game of restart. If Pogba end up being injured, people like you would made the thread and bashing the manager managed his players wrongly and we have seen this happened before.

Manager decided not to rush the players in big game, player came on, played very well & made big influence in the game to earn his starting spot next game. A very understandable man management from the manager.

James has been performing well against top sides and did well in his last game against City while Greenwood didn't perform against Everton when Ole last started him. James didn't perform against Spurs and he was dropped. I don't know what's the issue here about Matic, when we beat the likes of City, Chelsea, Spurs & Leicester with both Scott & Fred in midfield.

Based on every point you have made, Ole should have shown more faith in his Spurs XI than he has done since. It’s not like they are clearly back-up players or anything I suppose.

And Pogba was fit to play against Spurs in March, let alone June. And just because YOU couldn’t see how fit he was from your armchair, those that work with him should have seen that he was fit. After all, he has started every game since, so he was clearly fit. Otherwise we should still be rotating him now to get fitter.

This point you make of ‘player comes on, does well, earns his spot -completely normal’ doesn’t wash when the player you are speaking of is not an understudy in the first place. Pogba earned his spot because he’s better than those he replaced. That’s w in a choice between them, he should start when fit. He’s the better player. You could start the worse player, bring the better one on, and then when they are better, say ‘they have earned it now’, but that would be a pointless exercise - and self-deprivation of your strongest team from the start.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I think Ole simply didn’t expect Mourinho to go THAT negative. He probably expected Spurs to overload the midfield and try to get a goal before shutting up shop, that’s why he went with the counter attacking set up that worked for us in big games for most of the season.

Not subbing in Pogba and Greenwood earlier though was a mistake. Was evident early on that James was gonna do feck all.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Based on every point you have made, Ole should have shown more faith in his Spurs XI than he has done since. It’s not like they are clearly back-up players or anything I suppose.

Yea let's take a risk to start Pogba against Spurs who has been injured very long time. And when he got injured due to lack of match fitness like other players who got injured in the first game after restart, let's create a thread of "why did the manager start a player who is not ready to play more than 45 minutes of football". Nothing will make the fans pleased when clearly the decision was correct. If Pogba got injured, it'll be worse and good thing you are not the manager. You're not reading the point at all.