Our team selection against Spurs...

Adam-Utd

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Pogba wasn't fully match fit for 90 minutes, simple.
 

Adam-Utd

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How come he was fit to start a few days later?
Because he played some minutes against Spurs and more days training?

Pogba had not played a competitive match Since christmas lets not forget. Why would Ole throw him straight into the spotlight? if we lost that match everybody would be blaming Pogba. It was a smart move to take the pressure away - now everybody thinks Pogba is amazing for changing the game. Great management.
 

Zen86

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Now ‘what ifs’ are of course inconclusive, but I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this.

Spurs are just above average and were there for the taking. We started that game with Pogba, Matic and Greenwood on the bench - and we dropped two points. Two points in the home stretch where every point is crucial. I can’t help but think that not going with our better football players may prove costly for us this season. From Ole’s comments around the match, it seems that he selected some players out of loyalty perhaps, and there just isn’t any room for that at this stage. James, McTominay and Fred have not started a league game since then, and we’ve won all of them comfortably. Was a huge mistake from Ole I think, much as I love him.
You’ve not got enough to complain about lately, so you’re going back in time to complain about past games? :lol:

There’s a whole bunch of bad performances even earlier in the season as well for you to trawl through.
 

Bilbo

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With this level of scrutiny its a miracle that any United manager ever retains the support of the fans. I thought we dominated the Spurs game for at least 60 of the 90 minutes and deserved to win.
 

MikeKing

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Wasn't there a thread criticising Ole for playing Pogba in a cup match between his injuries? Now he is criticised for not playing Pogba from start first game after his injury. Seems a bit mental, assuming most of those angry with Ole for playing Pogba back then is the same people now saying Ole should have played him against Spurs.

It's clearly just a Pogba thread. Bruno played, as did everyone else except Greenwood. It's not like Jesse and Mata started that game. Frankly, there is not many reasons to play Matic unless it is to partner him with Pogba. I don't get why this is an interesting topic.
 

AshRK

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There was nothing wrong with the spurs game. We literally dominated them and with better finishing we could have won that game 3 or 4-1. The frustrating part is chelsea in many games have played crappy football and still got thise 3 points (yesterday, arsenal away, city home, villa away). Hopefully we win all our remaining games and finish 3rd.
 

Kostov

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I wouldn't hold too much grudge towards Ole, I can understand his decisions. Pogba was injured for long and nobody expected for Greenwood to explode like he has done in the last couple of games. With Matic maybe you have a point since he played in good form before the lockdown, but still. I am glad that afterwards he corrected those decisions and we are playing very good now.
 

ICHM

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If we don't get top 4, it won't be because of this match, it will be the shit performances earlier in the season, like Palace at home.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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In hindsight, yes, Matic, Pogba and Greenwood should have started.

However, at the time a lot of people were talking about Pogba needing to "earn his place" and wanted Fred, McT and James starting.
 

bsCallout

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He made the right call, we were unlucky not to win. In hindsight, based on what we know now, it looks like we should have played our current first 11 but there were different circumstances.
 

Shark

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in fairness he had to be weary of Spurs' attacking potential with Kane and Son back on the pitch. I can understand his decision to start that one a bit defensively but it's a bummer yeah, since Spurs are absolutely crap.
 

romufc

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Pogba wasn't fully match fit for 90 minutes, simple.
I just can't believe people who question this. Pogba's last start came in September. Ole said Pogba needs 30 minutes, then 60 minutes and then only he can play 90.

He has played 90 mins in 1 game.

The same people were complaining about us playing Pogba in games earlier saying Ole injured him.
 

Adam-Utd

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I just can't believe people who question this. Pogba's last start came in September. Ole said Pogba needs 30 minutes, then 60 minutes and then only he can play 90.

He has played 90 mins in 1 game.

The same people were complaining about us playing Pogba in games earlier saying Ole injured him.
I'm starting to feel like a lot of younger posters are living in a bit of a dream world. They know football from Fifa or football manager and just expect players to be ready immediately and 100% perfect from day 1.

We'd played 2/3 warm up games and they clearly knew Pogba was not ready to play 90 minutes against a tricky Tottenham. I think the coaching staff have played it perfectly.
 

romufc

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I'm starting to feel like a lot of younger posters are living in a bit of a dream world. They know football from Fifa or football manager and just expect players to be ready immediately and 100% perfect from day 1.

We'd played 2/3 warm up games and they clearly knew Pogba was not ready to play 90 minutes against a tricky Tottenham. I think the coaching staff have played it perfectly.
I agree, they played it perfectly.

That seems to be the case, blame Ole for him getting injured, blame Ole for him not ready to play 90 mins on his return.

Forget the players who served you well when he was injured.

Ole and the coaches see the players on a daily basis, it's not even like Ole doesnt like Pogba. He loves him, he has always said, a fully fit Pogba is what you build a team around. So I am sure they wouldn't have made the decision lightly.
 

Mcking

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Because he played some minutes against Spurs and more days training?

Pogba had not played a competitive match Since christmas lets not forget. Why would Ole throw him straight into the spotlight? if we lost that match everybody would be blaming Pogba. It was a smart move to take the pressure away - now everybody thinks Pogba is amazing for changing the game. Great management.
He doesn't suddenly become fit to start after playing about 20 minutes. Pogba had been training for weeks and played in the friendly games leading up to Tottenham. He put himself in a position where he simply couldn't be benched anymore.
 

Adam-Utd

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He doesn't suddenly become fit to start after playing about 20 minutes. Pogba had been training for weeks and played in the friendly games leading up to Tottenham. He put himself in a position where he simply couldn't be benched anymore.
You clearly have never played a proper football match in your life.

Match sharpness is something you just cannot get from training. You also get adrenaline rushes which cannot be practiced which can tire you out faster than normal.

Ole did the right thing, starting Pogba for 90 minutes would have been foolish.
 

He'sRaldo

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It seems people are too overprotective of Ole due to the absolute bile he received earlier in the season.

It's a valid question. I was expecting our strongest team to start, and had been advocating for Greenwood over James long before the lockdown period as well. Asking the question @Rozay posed doesn't equate to "sack Ole", it's simply questioning whether he took a risk with the selection which backfired. And in hindsight (and also foresight for those who called for our strongest 11) it seems to be the case.

The most important part to me is that he's been getting team selection and substitutions spot on ever since, so I think he's learned a lesson there.
 

el3mel

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The problem I find this a pointless discussion at this point. We said our opinions but even if you still believe in yours it's going to change nothing. We played 3 games after this in the league and the draw didn't cost us much seeing our position in the table in the moment, so what's point of going back and forth talking about a past game? Move on.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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An away point is a decent result, generally, and certainly against any of Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs, etc, so no, it wasn't a huge mistake.
 

horsechoker

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I think in hindsight it's easy to say who should've started but it was the first game back after months and Ole just went with the team which had recently beat Manchester City before the lockdown. Let's not forget that Spurs were massively fortunate to get something from that game, it was a defensive mistake from our number 1 keeper and number 1 defender which led to the goal.
 

ICHM

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Some people are never satisfied and seem to exist in a FIFA game world. Ole has to make the calls based on lots of information and what he sees in front of him at the training ground and on video of the opposition.

It's fairly clear here that expecting a player to come back from a long injury and to do 90 minutes full on away against a top half side is foolish in the extreme. Ole called it right, end of. The haters gonna hate no matter what.
 

Lynty

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If we don't get top 4, it won't be because of this match, it will be the shit performances earlier in the season, like Palace at home.
We played well against Palace. Fell asleep at the back and was let down my referee decision. Cahill should have been given a red for example.
 

MalcolmTucker

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Felt like he gave Spurs a bit too much respect with the starting line up and felt he should have bought Pogba and Greenwood on at half-time but it's a minor annoyance rather than a title costing mistake.
 

Giggs' right foot

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Before the game I thought Ole did the exact right thing, and afterwards my mind hasn't been changed.

I think it would've shown a complete disrespect to Fred and McTominay if Ole just got out from the Corona-break and was like... "lads - you're a big part of the reason why we're still in contention for the top-four with your form in february and march - but the bench is over there, Pogba's fit". The way Pogba then played when he came on was the perfect excuse Ole could get to then in the coming matches say "Pogba played a big role last game - now he deserves to start" - I think Fred and McTominay is much more at ease being benched to a player because of quality and not reputation - and had Pogba started vs. Spurs I think you could argue it would've been based on reputation, since he had missed the ten league games prior to the game and only had played 7 out of 29 league games in total. Other than that - maybe, just maybe - Ole was hesitant to chuck a player back who'd missed more or less the whole season to injuries and who hadn't played a game in six months.
 

He'sRaldo

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Before the game I thought Ole did the exact right thing, and afterwards my mind hasn't been changed.

I think it would've shown a complete disrespect to Fred and McTominay if Ole just got out from the Corona-break and was like... "lads - you're a big part of the reason why we're still in contention for the top-four with your form in february and march - but the bench is over there, Pogba's fit". The way Pogba then played when he came on was the perfect excuse Ole could get to then in the coming matches say "Pogba played a big role last game - now he deserves to start" - I think Fred and McTominay is much more at ease being benched to a player because of quality and not reputation - and had Pogba started vs. Spurs I think you could argue it would've been based on reputation, since he had missed the ten league games prior to the game and only had played 7 out of 29 league games in total. Other than that - maybe, just maybe - Ole was hesitant to chuck a player back who'd missed more or less the whole season to injuries and who hadn't played a game in six months.
Matic was also part of our good form going into the break, so that reasoning doesn't explain why Scott started over him

And though the reasoning does make sense sometimes, the only problem is that it may have cost us some points. So I guess the OP is posing the question, is that message worth it, if we were to miss out on CL by a point? Especially when everyone in Man Utd probably already knows that Pogba is the best player? Do other best players for other top clubs have to prove it after a spell out?

I think the more likely reasoning was that he expected an aggressive, high tempo game and thus wanted to protect some players from that. The omission of Matic, Greenwood, and Pogba fits that scenario the most to me.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I really don't want to criticize Ole and it's not my intention with this post, but the logic fails in my eyes.

Yes Pogba was injured, but that goes out the window when there was a 3 month break. Players who were playing prior to the covid break should have no advantage over someone coming back. And the logic for this is simple. How long is the summer break? Surely it's at least half as short as the Covid break. And after a summer break, there is a preseason precisely because everyone needs to be caught up to speed.

So why is it that someone like Pogba should operate different in regards to fitness than say Fred? And why is it different from the usual pre season period? All were equally away from match fitness for longer than the usual summer break. If Summer is enough time to tear away at people's fitness, then a longer COVID break should do the same.
Why are you comparing the situation to summer break? The summer break has enough pre season friendlies to allow players to get back their match fitness. In this situation we only had 2 friendlies but all happened in one day means each player probably only had 1 friendly to boost their fitness level.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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How come he was fit to start a few days later?
Because he had some minutes in Spurs game & the friendly against West Brom. And being start doesn't make the player fit to play 90 minutes. He only played full 90 minutes last weekend against Bournemouth.
 

Leethal

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Yes, I have made my decision. Or you have an issue that I have not changed my mind, because I have been instructed too by other posters? Go back to lurking mate. Why on earth should I change my view? Has it been ‘disproven’ or something?
If you've made your decision already, why does this thread even exist then?

Blatant belligerence? To impose your self-righteous disposition on others? Both?

Based on your aggressive retorts, you seem to be flirting with narcissism and how dare anyone disagree with your statement. I say statement, as this is what this entire thread is - it's your statement, and not open to any form of discussion. Everyone's wrong, and you're right.
 

Icemav

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Now ‘what ifs’ are of course inconclusive, but I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this.

Spurs are just above average and were there for the taking. We started that game with Pogba, Matic and Greenwood on the bench - and we dropped two points. Two points in the home stretch where every point is crucial. I can’t help but think that not going with our better football players may prove costly for us this season. From Ole’s comments around the match, it seems that he selected some players out of loyalty perhaps, and there just isn’t any room for that at this stage. James, McTominay and Fred have not started a league game since then, and we’ve won all of them comfortably. Was a huge mistake from Ole I think, much as I love him.
Sheeesh happens. First game back. He made his choices with good reasons. Didn't work. Hasn't put a foot wrong since.