What else can you expect when for the last 6 odd years we have had two pragmatic managers that were dependent on individual quality
Our technical level, what do you make of it?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
One thing I don't like about our forward passing is that it's often played to a player with his back to the opposition goal. That means the receiving player has to take extra touches on the ball if he's going to play it forward. It's as Ralf puts it inviting pressing.
Not enough short players on the team.
We're fine, average technical ability of the squad (at worst). There are some very good players (Matic, Sancho are excellent, Greenwood, Shaw, van de Beek very good, rest is OK, then there are Fred and McTominay below average.
The problem is confidence but also players make less mistakes when they know exactly what to do, where to move, where to pass, and what to expect. What Pep did to ManCity is exactly that, he didn't train every one of them on individual level.
In a disjointed team there is hesitation, on high level hesitation puts you under pressure. Just watch our games under Ole, Maguire, Shaw, Bruno holding on the ball way too long. We had no plan, we had to rush things, we looked poor technically.
Other issue is passing to players who have opposition on their back (see: Elanga vs Young Boys). This is the shortest way to losing possession, and it happens because there's no plan how to get the ball forward.
Average TBH.
If we're just talking about Technique (Control and passing) without anything else I'd say. This is also in relation to the positions they play.
De Gea - Average
AWB - Poor
Maguire - Average / Good
Lindelof - Average / Good
Varane - Good
Bailly - Average / Good
Dalot - Good
Shaw - Excellent
Telles - Good
Mctom - Poor
Fred - Poor
Matic - Average
DVB - Average
Fernandes - Poor / Excellent - So hit and miss
Pogba - World Class but doesn't play
Sancho - Excellent
Rashford - Average
Ronaldo - World Class
Greenwood - Good
I've flown through these and out the first assessment that came to my mind. Once again, It highlights a big issue in CM for lack of on the ball quality.
If we're just talking about Technique (Control and passing) without anything else I'd say. This is also in relation to the positions they play.
De Gea - Average
AWB - Poor
Maguire - Average / Good
Lindelof - Average / Good
Varane - Good
Bailly - Average / Good
Dalot - Good
Shaw - Excellent
Telles - Good
Mctom - Poor
Fred - Poor
Matic - Average
DVB - Average
Fernandes - Poor / Excellent - So hit and miss
Pogba - World Class but doesn't play
Sancho - Excellent
Rashford - Average
Ronaldo - World Class
Greenwood - Good
I've flown through these and out the first assessment that came to my mind. Once again, It highlights a big issue in CM for lack of on the ball quality.
Matic is definitely excellent. He just dwells on the ball a bit too much these days and doesn't have the physical tools to bail him out any more - His touch is class though.
Kind on Shaw. He's good at best.
Pogba can be pretty inconsistent and tends to lose it in even worse areas than Bruno - The fall down and claim for a foul routine got old very fecking fast. But yeah Bruno is just a total basket case.
Rashford would be in the poor to excellent camp too. There's days where he's just abysmal. He runs the dribbles out of play unchallenged every other game.
Their technical ability is good. Even AWB. It is as Cruijff used to say give them time on the ball and any decent player will pass it very well. It is their mental capacity that is lacking. Good coaches will make them think what to do with the ball before they receive it.
A good example was in the first half against CP. I noticed that players were moving long before the ball was passed into their zone. For eg. Ronaldo was moving left to cut off the space, Sancho was following him to deny CP the space to pass the ball, McTominay was following Sancho to deny any space behind him and Lindelof was also moving to deny space behind McTominay. Dalot was pushing up to deny any space that they can lob the ball. All the players were moving at the same time. The same way when players realize where to move when we have the ball, then the passing and movement becomes easier. That gives us more control of the situation. Both Jose and Ole do not want control.
A good example was in the first half against CP. I noticed that players were moving long before the ball was passed into their zone. For eg. Ronaldo was moving left to cut off the space, Sancho was following him to deny CP the space to pass the ball, McTominay was following Sancho to deny any space behind him and Lindelof was also moving to deny space behind McTominay. Dalot was pushing up to deny any space that they can lob the ball. All the players were moving at the same time. The same way when players realize where to move when we have the ball, then the passing and movement becomes easier. That gives us more control of the situation. Both Jose and Ole do not want control.
Surely Fred and Mctominay can't be blamed today? Thought they passed well.
Bruno Ronaldo Rashford Sancho were so so bad. When your attack is losing the ball every 10 seconds it's impossible to sustain attacks and keep control over the game.
Every time we find ourselves under pressure or conceding corners you can trace it back to someone losing the ball in easy possession. The frequency of our basic errors is just too high.
Bruno Ronaldo Rashford Sancho were so so bad. When your attack is losing the ball every 10 seconds it's impossible to sustain attacks and keep control over the game.
Every time we find ourselves under pressure or conceding corners you can trace it back to someone losing the ball in easy possession. The frequency of our basic errors is just too high.
It's shocking, isn't it?
watching us attempt to play under pressure and in tight spaces is painful.
watching us attempt to play under pressure and in tight spaces is painful.
I make of it that Varane is technically excellent and Sancho can definitely play in a team playing progressive football. I don't know about any of the others.
The midfield is poor technically in the deeper areas of the pitch. And when you have a midfield that isn't good enough on the ball in deeper areas, then there'll be connectivity issues. The midfield is a vital part of any team where everything goes through the middle and players in deeper areas of the pitch are the conductors in the team who knit everything together. Our midfield has been neglected and not prioritised for improvement.
So with a limited midfield you either apply high pressure in a compact high block, with the last line being on the half way line or close to it, which has the potential to paper over the cracks temporarily. Or think outside the box and give Hannibal a chance in a 3 man midfield. But the issue with the first equation is that we aren't a team who has ever been coached to apply high pressure and maintain a high line. So signing Boubacar Kamara in January wouldn't have done much because the problems of not being coached to modern day standards would still exist along with having a technical deficiency in midfield.
So with a limited midfield you either apply high pressure in a compact high block, with the last line being on the half way line or close to it, which has the potential to paper over the cracks temporarily. Or think outside the box and give Hannibal a chance in a 3 man midfield. But the issue with the first equation is that we aren't a team who has ever been coached to apply high pressure and maintain a high line. So signing Boubacar Kamara in January wouldn't have done much because the problems of not being coached to modern day standards would still exist along with having a technical deficiency in midfield.
Our issue is the habit of being careless in possession. It is ingrained. LVG tried to eradicate it and our fans detested him for it.
Hard to understand how our midfield duo of McFred hasn't evolved in any way, I mean by playing at a high level and training week in week out, you should gain some abilities right ?
A real barometer of where we are.
What technical level?
Been our central problem for a long time.
I know some don't believe the problems are down to the players just because it's been going on for years. With different players.
But it's because we keep using players who haven't got the required technical ability. Over and over.
I know some don't believe the problems are down to the players just because it's been going on for years. With different players.
But it's because we keep using players who haven't got the required technical ability. Over and over.
Whole team has been lacking confidence this season and it breads this level of inconsistency and forces needless mistakes. Think the more we win the more confident most of the players will get. Not gonna happen easily but I think we're slowly getting there.
Rashford/10.
How do people rate Brunos technique? Is it just that he's careless or lacking composure or is there an issue there? Capable of the sublime so often so I'd tend to give him the benefit of the doubt but just curious
Yeah, we went from a team that wants the ball under LVG to a team that doesn’t want the ball under Mourinho and Ole. Now Ralf wants us to play with control but the players are very rusty and aren’t yet on the same wave length as each other. They all panic on the ball when they are the ones who have to build up an attack.
I thought the difference was physical rather than technical. They swarmed us and played faster than we did. Reminded me of when Bilbao gave us a dicking under Fergie.
We make Burnley look like Tika Taka Barcelona
Shocking. Bruno can't trap the ball. Ronaldo is stumbling all over the place. Varane misses easy passes. Fred just boots it in the air.
The thing is, these aren't player who were bad at this sort of thing before they came here...
We made them like this...
The thing is, these aren't player who were bad at this sort of thing before they came here...
We made them like this...
Really poor. Bottom five in the league.
Our players are mentally fragile.
When somethings going wrong they don't often react in the right ways.
Today was on Ralf for the Lindelof at Right Back call. First time he's made a clanger for me.
If he gets the right lineup and plays players in their best position next time we can go through.
Today he didn't have the bollocks to drop Rashford and Maguire.
When somethings going wrong they don't often react in the right ways.
Today was on Ralf for the Lindelof at Right Back call. First time he's made a clanger for me.
If he gets the right lineup and plays players in their best position next time we can go through.
Today he didn't have the bollocks to drop Rashford and Maguire.
It's hard to tell how much is technique vs how much is us always trying to go from 0-100 when we get the ball. There's clearly some players who aren't great on the ball, and too many who are careless but I think all of it is magnified by 1. Not being patient enough when we get the ball and 2. Having way too many players upfield when we have the ball deep. On top of that by giving the ball away so cheaply we often have to work hard as we end up exposed on counters which can't help the situation from a tiredness perspective.
It's lacking but I think it's exaggerated by two factors.
1) Our CMs, bar an in-form Pogba, are poor on the ball. Therefore, there's too much onus and pressure on players in positions where generally you're not expected to be world-class on the ball. Most teams have a player you can give the ball to under pressure, we have to actively avoid our CMs, which is a farcical situation to be in.
2) We condense our play into ridiculously tight spaces because nobody is running the other way to stretch the game. If even one player does that, it buys players in midfield areas an extra half second to receive the ball and turn.
1) Our CMs, bar an in-form Pogba, are poor on the ball. Therefore, there's too much onus and pressure on players in positions where generally you're not expected to be world-class on the ball. Most teams have a player you can give the ball to under pressure, we have to actively avoid our CMs, which is a farcical situation to be in.
2) We condense our play into ridiculously tight spaces because nobody is running the other way to stretch the game. If even one player does that, it buys players in midfield areas an extra half second to receive the ball and turn.
Truer words haven't been spoken today.
Players who are not technical can't play a fast passing game, so when athletico stepped up the pace our players got found out.
I really don't think we more than 2/3 technical players in our team.
I also think the lack of technique causes that. Poor first and second touch, not sorting out feet quick enough, not opening up the body. It certainly contributes to us getting in these as you correctly say ridiculously tight spaces.
Pogba is not good on the ball, that's why he's so bad when pressured.
If I’m being honest, Harry, Luke, Fred (even though I like him), Scott, Rashford, AWB and Lingard are all so bad technically its actually shocking and need to upgrade on all of them asap. This team will not work well with these guys getting game time here regularly,
The problem isn't just technical. It's strength, too. We've had technical players like Kagawa and Mata who, to be blunt, were crap signings. What we've desperately needed is press resistant players.
For example, David Silva - technique wise - was no different to Mata. The difference was he was strong enough to keep the ball under pressure unlike Juan. That's what set them apart. Same thing when we got Kagawa and Arsenal got Cazorla. Both technically good, but Cazorla was deceptively strong.
For example, David Silva - technique wise - was no different to Mata. The difference was he was strong enough to keep the ball under pressure unlike Juan. That's what set them apart. Same thing when we got Kagawa and Arsenal got Cazorla. Both technically good, but Cazorla was deceptively strong.
A bit of both. Alt M is excellent on pressing, you only need to look at Pogba, Bruno and CR during 1st half. They hardly had more than 5s on the ball before a leg stepping in. Rashford and Sancho seemed to be able to handle this rough pressing better, these 3 simply scared of the opposition.
Can players handle rough pressing - ask the rest of La Liga players.
It doesn't matter if players are technically good when we are passing to players who have 2/3 opposition players around them. There is no short passing options from our midfielders.
We struggle to beat any team with any sort of quality. Atletico are not even that good, we made them look so much better.
We struggle to beat any team with any sort of quality. Atletico are not even that good, we made them look so much better.
Playing Fred as DM was an issue, we basically playing with minus 1 in possession, when Matic came on things improved because we were more confident building play through him.
Even when he had possession in the first half, it was possession without confidence, you have to understand we aren't used to having possession against teams of this caliber.
When we usually have possession it against teams forced back by our sheer quality, so coming against an opponent who intentionally gave up possession in other to deny our front 5 space, it was up to the back 4 and Fred to take control and create spaces, but we were literally avoiding Fred because we knew giving him the ball will trigger a press which will lead to loss of possession giving his nature.
Even when he had possession in the first half, it was possession without confidence, you have to understand we aren't used to having possession against teams of this caliber.
When we usually have possession it against teams forced back by our sheer quality, so coming against an opponent who intentionally gave up possession in other to deny our front 5 space, it was up to the back 4 and Fred to take control and create spaces, but we were literally avoiding Fred because we knew giving him the ball will trigger a press which will lead to loss of possession giving his nature.
The technical level of this team is fine. Of course, it could be better. However, I think if you got any of our players knocking the ball about in the park they'd look godly.
The issue with this team is how quickly its ar$e falls out. The likes of Pogba and Bruno, who are very good technical players, were treating the ball like it was on fire for much of yesterday's game. They couldn't control it without 10 touches, they couldn't decide what they wanted to do with it, then when they figured out what they might want to do they couldn't execute it.
Lets keep it real. Our team got stage fright. They looked up at the lights in the Wanda and they froze. Same as in the Europa League final last summer. Same as in so many other big, high pressure games. I just remember how we fell to bits when we got to top of the table last season. This squad simply can't hack pressure.
The issue with this team is how quickly its ar$e falls out. The likes of Pogba and Bruno, who are very good technical players, were treating the ball like it was on fire for much of yesterday's game. They couldn't control it without 10 touches, they couldn't decide what they wanted to do with it, then when they figured out what they might want to do they couldn't execute it.
Lets keep it real. Our team got stage fright. They looked up at the lights in the Wanda and they froze. Same as in the Europa League final last summer. Same as in so many other big, high pressure games. I just remember how we fell to bits when we got to top of the table last season. This squad simply can't hack pressure.
You are massively overrating the technical ability of our players, even our best technical players have technical weaknesses.
Drives me mad when we can’t do the simple things.
