Ousmane Dembele

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Tallis

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I don’t think we were ever in for him. Just rumour mongering to get Chelsea to hurry up I would think.

I would rather see Amad develop on that right vs mess around with a very injury prone player
 

Caesar2290

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This place is hilarious sometimes...

For the entire season the caf complains how most of our players either lack effort, are inconsistent or injury prone.

When we a rival signs a player that ticks all of these boxes everyone loses their minds and starts dooming.

Can't wait for Erik to start our training sessions.
 

roonster09

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Dembele on a free is a punt worth taking even with his injuries, especially if we then get a fee for an outgoing attacker
It's a free transfer only for internet arguments.
 

Noodle

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"Free" is not free, whenever a player is without a contract you pay a 5 times higher sign on bonus and a lot higher fees to agents etc (and a higher wager as well, so in the end you wont save to much money or else we would be all over him, Dybala and so on...).
No it’s not free, there will be a signing on bonus for example. But let’s say we sold Pulisic to make way, we’d probably bring in £40-50m at least and maybe spend up to £10-20m on a signing on bonus and agents fees. That’s a no brainier swapping one injury prone player for another and netting a big gain
 

NoLogo

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It's a free transfer only for internet arguments.
The fun part is, even contract extensions seem to be as expansive as buying a new player these days. Clubs are really in a bad spot when it comes to this right now. Of course, agents and their players go to their current clubs saying "Alright here is the deal, if we run down the contract and join a new club we can cash the transfer money as a bonus, if you want us to extend we expect you to pay the same bonus we would get from moving. Of course, I have no direct insight into the business, but I feel like negotiations going this way could be a big reason why we currently see so many players running down their contracts.
 

Noodle

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The fun part is, even contract extensions seem to be as expansive as buying a new player these days. Clubs are really in a bad spot when it comes to this right now. Of course, agents and their players go to their current clubs saying "Alright here is the deal, if we run down the contract and join a new club we can cash the transfer money as a bonus, if you want us to extend we expect you to pay the same bonus we would get from moving. Of course, I have no direct insight into the business, but I feel like negotiations going this way could be a big reason why we currently see so many players running down their contracts.
I think that’s part of the reason we let Rudiger go (or Real attracted him). Real would have been willing to pay him and his agent reasonable fees to get him without a transfer fee. Perhaps we couldn’t go for that as it’d set a dangerous precedent in negotiations with all of our players. I.e run down your contract and force the club to pay out £10m in signing on perks. It’s different when you are the club taking a player on a free
 

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It's a free transfer only for internet arguments.
No-one really says free transfer thinking it's literally free. There should be an understanding that it's referring specifically to the lack of a transfer fee.

Those other fees would still be there even if Dembele costs £60m, albeit a higher amount. He's already on eye watering wages so Chelsea will have to at least match match that, likely exceed it, whether he comes with a huge transfer fee or not, and these days most top level talents are represented by well known agents who require their own eye watering fees. So no transfer fee is kind of a big advantage.
 

JPRouve

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The fun part is, even contract extensions seem to be as expansive as buying a new player these days. Clubs are really in a bad spot when it comes to this right now. Of course, agents and their players go to their current clubs saying "Alright here is the deal, if we run down the contract and join a new club we can cash the transfer money as a bonus, if you want us to extend we expect you to pay the same bonus we would get from moving. Of course, I have no direct insight into the business, but I feel like negotiations going this way could be a big reason why we currently see so many players running down their contracts.
No, players from the wealthiest clubs sometimes run down their contracts because these clubs make more money and demand fees that other clubs often decline, this situation is created by clubs wealth and greed. Players will demand and get signing bonuses regardless of whether they joined for free or not, the same apply to agents, transfer fees have next to nothing to do with them.
 

NoLogo

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I think that’s part of the reason we let Rudiger go (or Real attracted him). Real would have been willing to pay him and his agent reasonable fees to get him without a transfer fee. Perhaps we couldn’t go for that as it’d set a dangerous precedent in negotiations with all of our players. I.e run down your contract and force the club to pay out £10m in signing on perks. It’s different when you are the club taking a player on a free
Definitely. The buying club is in a much stronger position. If they pay the fee to another club or simply the player and his agent doesn't matter to them. As a club that wants to retain a player things get way more difficult, if any player that is running down his contract will essentially cost you the equivalent of signing a new player you are going to run into financial difficulties pretty soon. I mean, just look at the Mbappé deal, but that was essentially a 100M transfer for PSG, just to extend a player's contract for another 3 years.
 

JPRouve

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Definitely. The buying club is in a much stronger position. If they pay the fee to another club or simply the player and his agent doesn't matter to them. As a club that wants to retain a player things get way more difficult, if any player that is running down his contract will essentially cost you the equivalent of signing a new player you are going to run into financial difficulties pretty soon. I mean, just look at the Mbappé deal, but that was essentially a 100M transfer for PSG, just to extend a player's contract for another 3 years.
It doesn't cost you as much and Mbappé isn't a typical example but an exception among exceptions.
 

DannyCAFC

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Consistently injured and seemingly has a bit of an attitude problem or at least a work-rate problem, and people think both of those things are suddenly going to iron themselves out in a more physically demanding league?

Remains to be seen to but these types of signings rarely work out.

And even if it does, there's a stark contrast in the culture and environment at Chelsea and United at the moment. The latter is not a place you would want to bring somebody with the above personality traits in to expecting success.
 

JPRouve

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Consistently injured and seemingly has a bit of an attitude problem or at least a work-rate problem, and people think both of those things are suddenly going to iron themselves out in a more physically demanding league?

Remains to be seen to but these types of signings rarely work out.

And even if it does, there's a stark contrast in the culture and environment at Chelsea and United at the moment. The latter is not a place you would want to bring somebody with the above personality traits in to expecting success.
Interestingly he doesn't have a work rate problem. It's one of the weirdest things about Dembélé, while he has struggled with time keeping, he is also according to his manager a hard worker on the training ground.
 

TheReligion

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Of course fees will be involved but like I mention these would be dwarfed by selling someone to make way
I think the issue is you described it as a free punt. It’s not.

Id also wager he’s going to be making considerably more than Pulisic (as per your example).
 

roonster09

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No-one really says free transfer thinking it's literally free. There should be an understanding that it's referring specifically to the lack of a transfer fee.

Those other fees would still be there even if Dembele costs £60m, albeit a higher amount. He's already on eye watering wages so Chelsea will have to at least match match that, likely exceed it, whether he comes with a huge transfer fee or not, and these days most top level talents are represented by well known agents who require their own eye watering fees. So no transfer fee is kind of a big advantage.
Transfer fee isn't involved but signing on fee and agent few would be high like a transfer fee (like a discounted transfer fee).
 

Noodle

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I think the issue is you described it as a free punt. It’s not.

Id also wager he’s going to be making considerably more than Pulisic (as per your example).
Perhaps bad wording, I should have said no transfer fee. However the maths still stay the same. Even taking into account higher wages the overall sum game is a saving. Unless we’re really thick and we’re giving him unfathomable numbers

speculative attempt below:

Pulisic sale (£50m perhaps?)
Wages £150k a week rumoured = £7.8m a year

total saving over a 4 year deal = £81.2m

Dembele signing on fee £10m
Agent fee £5m
Wages £250k = £13m a year (estimated much higher than I’d expect)

total cost over four years = £67m

Saving of £14m even with high figures. And that’s not even factoring in how much Pulisic would want for renewing his contract in terms of fees
 

TheReligion

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Perhaps bad wording, I should have said no transfer fee. However the maths still stay the same. Even taking into account higher wages the overall sum game is a saving. Unless we’re really thick and we’re giving him unfathomable numbers

speculative attempt below:

Pulisic sale (£50m perhaps?)
Wages £150k a week rumoured = £7.8m a year

total saving over a 4 year deal = £81.2m

Dembele signing on fee £10m
Agent fee £5m
Wages £250k = £13m a year (estimated much higher than I’d expect)

total cost over four years = £67m

Saving of £14m even with high figures. And that’s not even factoring in how much Pulisic would want for renewing his contract in terms of fees
Oh of course. I don’t doubt your numbers. Pulisic probably lower but by that by.

As a stand alone deal though Dembele isn’t a free punt though which I think was the issue. As with any player it can be off set by an outgoing. United losing so much from the wage bill this summer a prime example.
 

Redcy

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Perhaps bad wording, I should have said no transfer fee. However the maths still stay the same. Even taking into account higher wages the overall sum game is a saving. Unless we’re really thick and we’re giving him unfathomable numbers

speculative attempt below:

Pulisic sale (£50m perhaps?)
Wages £150k a week rumoured = £7.8m a year

total saving over a 4 year deal = £81.2m

Dembele signing on fee £10m
Agent fee £5m
Wages £250k = £13m a year (estimated much higher than I’d expect)

total cost over four years = £67m

Saving of £14m even with high figures. And that’s not even factoring in how much Pulisic would want for renewing his contract in terms of fees
I thought Dembele was on way more than that from all accounts?

Like others I am not sure who is buying Pulisic for 50m? There are very few clubs spending big amounts and Pulisic hasnt done anything to make himself valuable has he? I would guess most likely he goes on a loan or you sell him for around 25m
 

mu4c_20le

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Please god let this be true.


About time they get their own Alexis/Hazard/Willian.
 

criticalanalysis

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Interestingly he doesn't have a work rate problem. It's one of the weirdest things about Dembélé, while he has struggled with time keeping, he is also according to his manager a hard worker on the training ground.
Don't watch Barca games but does that translate to the pitch because the bolded is exactly what Rangnick has said about Rashford the last 6 months..
 

JPRouve

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Don't watch Barca games but does that translate to the pitch because the bolded is exactly what Rangnick has said about Rashford the last 6 months..
He is always willing for a counter and demands the ball in possession. He isn't really a player that demands the ball behind the defense because he is largely a ball carrier but he makes himself available and will run at the defense a lot. Defensively and in terms of pressing he has improved over the years but he started from a low point, defensively you can think of someone like Nani, he won't be good but he will try enough. If you look at FBREF you will notice that he registers more tackles and pressures than Mané, I use Mané because people like to compare these type of players to the one Klopp uses.

Now I won't tell you that he is defensively reliable because that's not his skill set and not so long ago he had ridiculous concentration lapses which were more impactful on the ball but noticeable off it and during defensive transitions. He best described as in the clouds, his workrate and attitude is how you would expect but his concentration isn't which creates these weird moments where he goes from 0 to 100.
 

criticalanalysis

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He is always willing for a counter and demands the ball in possession. He isn't really a player that demands the ball behind the defense because he is largely a ball carrier but he makes himself available and will run at the defense a lot. Defensively and in terms of pressing he has improved over the years but he started from a low point, defensively you can think of someone like Nani, he won't be good but he will try enough. If you look at FBREF you will notice that he registers more tackles and pressures than Mané, I use Mané because people like to compare these type of players to the one Klopp uses.

Now I won't tell you that he is defensively reliable because that's not his skill set and not so long ago he had ridiculous concentration lapses which were more impactful on the ball but noticeable off it and during defensive transitions. He best described as in the clouds, his workrate and attitude is how you would expect but his concentration isn't which creates these weird moments where he goes from 0 to 100.
Part of me wants him here so ETH can have some serious pace and dynamism on the wings but it would be a luxury buy and probably too big an expense even on a free as we have other concerns.

Touchline wing play is a rarity nowadays.
 

WeePat

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So after all the links and Chelsea rumous, Dembele still only has Barca's offer on the table, which he had been refusing to accept. Barca offered new terms today, a lot lower than the original renewal offer. New contract offer is around 6m euros net (116k a week). That is the only offer he has at the moment. Chelsea are either not actually interested in him or have played a blinder here by just waiting to see how the Barca situation unfolds.
 

Cassidy

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So after all the links and Chelsea rumous, Dembele still only has Barca's offer on the table, which he had been refusing to accept. Barca offered new terms today, a lot lower than the original renewal offer. New contract offer is around 6m euros net (116k a week). That is the only offer he has at the moment. Chelsea are either not actually interested in him or have played a blinder here by just waiting to see how the Barca situation unfolds.
Its been reported quite a bit that Dembele wants to stay at Barca, and the contract dispute was more to do with his agent.
 

Mainoldo

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So after all the links and Chelsea rumous, Dembele still only has Barca's offer on the table, which he had been refusing to accept. Barca offered new terms today, a lot lower than the original renewal offer. New contract offer is around 6m euros net (116k a week). That is the only offer he has at the moment. Chelsea are either not actually interested in him or have played a blinder here by just waiting to see how the Barca situation unfolds.
I think there number 1 target is Sterling and with Zyiech, Werner, CHO and Pulisic on the books. One of them would need to go first atleast before committing to his wage demands.
 

WeePat

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Its been reported quite a bit that Dembele wants to stay at Barca, and the contract dispute was more to do with his agent.
Isn't the same agent still Dembele's agent?

I think there number 1 target is Sterling and with Zyiech, Werner, CHO and Pulisic on the books. One of them would need to go first atleast before committing to his wage demands.
That's true but Ziyech is now linked with Milan and Chelsea are seemingly actively shopping Werner around. So there's a good chance both could leave.
 

Cassidy

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Isn't the same agent still Dembele's agent?
Apparently, there was some complication because he had 2 representatives, and one of them didn't sign off.
No idea if that was resolved or not.
 

WeePat

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Apparently, there was some complication because he had 2 representatives, and one of them didn't sign off.
No idea if that was resolved or not.
Interesting. It would be a stunning turn of events if he accepted this lower offer, after all of this.
 

JPRouve

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Isn't the same agent still Dembele's agent?
And Dembélé has two representative Marco Lichtsteiner and Moussa Sissoko, they are associates but if I'm not mistaken Sissoko doesn't have an UEFA license, his "official" agent is Lichtsteiner but both of them are shady. I don't know why Dembéél still have them has agent since they keep putting him in weird situations, they were initially imposed by Dortmund which led to an investigation by FIFA.
 

WeePat

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And Dembélé has two representative Marco Lichtsteiner and Moussa Sissoko, they are associates but if I'm not mistaken Sissoko doesn't have an UEFA license, his "official" agent is Lichtsteiner but both of them are shady. I don't know why Dembéél still have them has agent since they keep putting him in weird situations, they were initially imposed by Dortmund which led to an investigation by FIFA.
This Sissoko chap is the one that I see all over the news as the face of Dembele's representation. So he gets paid by Dembele but he can't negotiate on Dembele's behalf in any official capacity with the other fella being present?

How do you think this situation ends? Most reports seem to be leaning towards him staying on those lower terms.
 

JPRouve

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This Sissoko chap is the one that I see all over the news as the face of Dembele's representation. So he gets paid by Dembele but he can't negotiate on Dembele's behalf in any official capacity with the other fella being present?

How do you think this situation ends? Most reports seem to be leaning towards him staying on those lower terms.
Both Lichtsteiner and Sissoko represent Dembélé, Sissoko is the face of the operation but he works with/for Lichtsteiner. I don't really know how it's going to end but it seems that Barcelona absolutely want to keep him and it was mentioned that Xavi was trying to convince him to stay, I think that he should stay on a lesser contract, it's still good money and Dembélé should focus on playing for a coach that understands and appreciates him.
 

Red4Life_#7

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Unuited should be in for him, top talent and only 25 y/o. Free transfer is a no-brainer. We can use other funds for other areas of the pitch like DM, CM, CB etc
 

BerryBerryShrew

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Both Lichtsteiner and Sissoko represent Dembélé, Sissoko is the face of the operation but he works with/for Lichtsteiner. I don't really know how it's going to end but it seems that Barcelona absolutely want to keep him and it was mentioned that Xavi was trying to convince him to stay, I think that he should stay on a lesser contract, it's still good money and Dembélé should focus on playing for a coach that understands and appreciates him.
Tuchel probably understands and appreciates him more than any other coach though.
 

JPRouve

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Tuchel probably understands and appreciates him more than any other coach though.
Tuchel had him one season, he doesn't know the current player better than Xavi but anyway I didn't make the point that only Xavi understood him but that he was currently in a good situation and there is no reason to change.
 

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Baffled at people wanting this guy. Injury prone, and he seems like someone who isn't the most professional. We'd be getting Martial MKII.
 

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Baffled at people wanting this guy. Injury prone, and he seems like someone who isn't the most professional. We'd be getting Martial MKII.
If it's a choice between this guy on a free (and probably 15-20m signing fee) or Antony for 50-60m, I'd take Dembelé. Yes he's had injuries but there's no doubting his quality. Antony is a huge gamble in my opinion.
 
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