Ozil, China, Arsenal, PL, Hypocrisy...

LucasXXII

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
77
Get triggered?

We're talking about a people who live in an entirely censored world, who almost never get to see other views and perspectives, and who live almost entirely on a diet of state-fed propaganda.

The Chinese government blocks website content and monitors individuals' internet access.

As required by the Chinese government, major internet platforms and messaging services in China established elaborate self-censorship mechanisms. Some have hired teams of thousands to police content and invested in powerful AI algorithms.

Many controversial events are prohibited from news coverage, preventing many Chinese citizens from knowing of their government's actions. Such measures inspired the policy's nickname, "The Great Firewall of China."
The amount of people (especially younger ones) that use a VPN and have access to Internet outside of the "GFW" is much, much larger than you'd imagine.

It works the other way around too, probably even more so. Westerners rarely ever get to see the perspectives of the average Chinese people.

Cultural difference is a real thing. Not sure how people in every country should be expected to react to things in the same way.
 

Sad Chris

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,641
Get triggered?

We're talking about a people who live in an entirely censored world, who almost never get to see other views and perspectives, and who live almost entirely on a diet of state-fed propaganda.

The Chinese government blocks website content and monitors individuals' internet access.

As required by the Chinese government, major internet platforms and messaging services in China established elaborate self-censorship mechanisms. Some have hired teams of thousands to police content and invested in powerful AI algorithms.

Many controversial events are prohibited from news coverage, preventing many Chinese citizens from knowing of their government's actions. Such measures inspired the policy's nickname, "The Great Firewall of China."
The amount of people (especially younger ones) that use a VPN and have access to Internet outside of the "GFW" is much, much larger than you'd imagine.

It works the other way around too, probably even more so. Westerners rarely ever get to see the perspectives of the average Chinese people.

Cultural difference is a real thing. Not sure how people in every country should be expected to react to things in the same way.
Correct. I live in China and basically anybody who wants to use Google, YouTube, Instagram and co has no problems whatsoever. VPN isn’t completely illegal either. You can pay a premium for legal VPN as many of the local bars and restaurants do here.

I think the problem worldwide is that people just don’t give a shit in general, as long as it doesn’t affect our own lives in an obvious way.

Özil (hypocritical or not, educated or not) may have more influence on change than any other traditional news outlet. The power of having a loyal, all-forgiving, unquestioning fan base in the 21st century seems way more important than any skills or knowledge.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
Correct. I live in China and basically anybody who wants to use Google, YouTube, Instagram and co has no problems whatsoever. VPN isn’t completely illegal either. You can pay a premium for legal VPN as many of the local bars and restaurants do here.

I think the problem worldwide is that people just don’t give a shit in general, as long as it doesn’t affect our own lives in an obvious way.

Özil (hypocritical or not, educated or not) may have more influence on change than any other traditional news outlet. The power of having a loyal, all-forgiving, unquestioning fan base in the 21st century seems way more important than any skills or knowledge.
Wiki says:

"Amnesty International notes that China has "the largest recorded number of imprisoned journalists and cyber-dissidents in the world"and Paris-based Reporters Without Borders stated in 2010 and 2012 that "China is the world's biggest prison for netizens." Commonly alleged user offenses include communicating with groups abroad, signing online petitions, and calling for government reform. The government has escalated its efforts to neutralize coverage and commentary that is critical of the regime after a series of large anti-pollution and anti-corruption protests. Many of these protests as well as ethnic riots were organized or publicized using instant messaging services, chat rooms, and text messages. China's internet police force was reported by state media to be 2 million strong in 2013."

So, a 2 million strong internet police force and world's biggest prison for netizens … but you say "basically anybody who wants to use Google, YouTube, Instagram and co has no problems whatsoever."

Yeah, right ... and pigs can fly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_China
 

mancan92

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
10,211
Location
Loughborough university
This 100%

What China is doing could well be a genocide, and Arsenal obviously only cares about money, but Ozil is hypocrite
So is every person from the western world. Do you know the amount of people who have been killed due to "Western influence"? But we happily get on with our day to day and complain about other nations.
 

LucasXXII

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
77
Wiki says:

"Amnesty International notes that China has "the largest recorded number of imprisoned journalists and cyber-dissidents in the world"and Paris-based Reporters Without Borders stated in 2010 and 2012 that "China is the world's biggest prison for netizens." Commonly alleged user offenses include communicating with groups abroad, signing online petitions, and calling for government reform. The government has escalated its efforts to neutralize coverage and commentary that is critical of the regime after a series of large anti-pollution and anti-corruption protests. Many of these protests as well as ethnic riots were organized or publicized using instant messaging services, chat rooms, and text messages. China's internet police force was reported by state media to be 2 million strong in 2013."

So, a 2 million strong internet police force and world's biggest prison for netizens … but you say "basically anybody who wants to use Google, YouTube, Instagram and co has no problems whatsoever."

Yeah, right ... and pigs can fly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_China
The Wiki page doesn't say that people are imprisoned in China for browsing and posting on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc.. To believe that is just absurd. Only when one posts clear anti-party/anti-China messages do they put themselves at risk with the government.

Think of the CCP as Sir Alex and the Chinese people as Man Utd fans. What SAF has done to United is very much analogous to what the CCP has accomplished in raising China from the ashes and making people's lives better. With the average Chinese it's not always about protesting and "making their voices heard". There is a lot of goodwill and trust towards the party for what they've done in terms of improving the living standards of the people (which no one can take away) and, since the government was and still is competent at their jobs by all accounts, most are willing to see what happens. It's not that people don't complain, but it's very rare for anyone to feel the need to direct all sorts of vitriol to the party and "call for the sack" in footballing terms.

With the Ozil incident and the Daryl Morey one not long ago, as far as I understand, the outrage originated from the Internet and there wasn't a beep from the national media until the netizens urged them to do something about it. One of the state-run media even published an article telling people to calm the feck down.

I'm not even touching on what's right or wrong and what can be considered as being overboard, but the current state of thinking of the average Chinese people is cultural as much as it's historical, and you (and most westerners) don't seem to understand that.
 

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
4,239
So is every person from the western world. Do you know the amount of people who have been killed due to "Western influence"? But we happily get on with our day to day and complain about other nations.
If you cannot tell the difference between the internment camps targeted at the specific religious minority that China is operating, or millitary massacre of kurds Turkey is orchestrating, and whatever conspiracy BS you mean by "western influence", then I cannot help you.

There is a lot of negative in the world but they are far from all being equal. The only ones who are interested in peddling the narrative of this false equivalency are tyrants and oppressors. They can not say what they are doing is ok so the weapon they use is to normalize with: "but others are just as bad". This kind of weaponized whataboutism is fairly transparent but alas still effective. There is nothing that Western countries are doing (minus the recent atrocities of current US adminstration at Mexico border) that is even comparable to what we are discussing here
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
11,420
Location
Manchester
He's right but he's a giant hypocrite given his ties to Erdogan. Can't pick and choose whose human rights you support, Mesut.
 

mancan92

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
10,211
Location
Loughborough university
If you cannot tell the difference between the internment camps targeted at the specific religious minority that China is operating, or millitary massacre of kurds Turkey is orchestrating, and whatever conspiracy BS you mean by "western influence", then I cannot help you.

There is a lot of negative in the world but they are far from all being equal. The only ones who are interested in peddling the narrative of this false equivalency are tyrants and oppressors. They can not say what they are doing is ok so the weapon they use is to normalize with: "but others are just as bad". This kind of weaponized whataboutism is fairly transparent but alas still effective. There is nothing that Western countries are doing (minus the recent atrocities of current US adminstration at Mexico border) that is even comparable to what we are discussing here
Ok how about the US/UK actively killing thousands in the middle east? Thats not whataboutism. The western world has caused far bigger atrocities than the third world societies. People calling out Ozil for being blinded by his leader's atrocities make me laugh since most here actively live in western countries with centuries worth of this stuff even happening at this very moment. Everyone does it not just Ozil, and calling out someone else's atrocities and not noticing others doesn't make the point invalid.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
The Wiki page doesn't say that people are imprisoned in China for browsing and posting on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc.. To believe that is just absurd. Only when one posts clear anti-party/anti-China messages do they put themselves at risk with the government.

Think of the CCP as Sir Alex and the Chinese people as Man Utd fans. What SAF has done to United is very much analogous to what the CCP has accomplished in raising China from the ashes and making people's lives better. With the average Chinese it's not always about protesting and "making their voices heard". There is a lot of goodwill and trust towards the party for what they've done in terms of improving the living standards of the people (which no one can take away) and, since the government was and still is competent at their jobs by all accounts, most are willing to see what happens. It's not that people don't complain, but it's very rare for anyone to feel the need to direct all sorts of vitriol to the party and "call for the sack" in footballing terms.

With the Ozil incident and the Daryl Morey one not long ago, as far as I understand, the outrage originated from the Internet and there wasn't a beep from the national media until the netizens urged them to do something about it. One of the state-run media even published an article telling people to calm the feck down.

I'm not even touching on what's right or wrong and what can be considered as being overboard, but the current state of thinking of the average Chinese people is cultural as much as it's historical, and you (and most westerners) don't seem to understand that.
You clearly don't realise the horror of your saying "Only when one posts clear anti-party/anti-China messages do they put themselves at risk with the government" … but the more than one million Uyghurs in "re-education" camps do.

Wiki says: "Given conservative and variable estimates of executions in China, executions in China account for more than 65% in 2010 of those worldwide."

Wiki also says: "The exact numbers of people executed in Mainland China is classified as a state secret"

So a Chinese citizen wouldn't fare well if they publicly demanded to know how many Chinese citizens have been put to death by their own government.

So it hardly surprising that the people of Taiwan are not falling over themselves to become part of what "the CCP has accomplished in raising China from the ashes and making people's lives better."
 

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
4,239
Ok how about the US/UK actively killing thousands in the middle east? Thats not whataboutism. The western world has caused far bigger atrocities than the third world societies. People calling out Ozil for being blinded by his leader's atrocities make me laugh since most here actively live in western countries with centuries worth of this stuff even happening at this very moment. Everyone does it not just Ozil, and calling out someone else's atrocities and not noticing others doesn't make the point invalid.
Didn't realize Taliban was part of Caf. The level of brainwashed propaganda you are spouting here is truly troublesome.
 

mancan92

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
10,211
Location
Loughborough university
Didn't realize Taliban was part of Caf. The level of brainwashed propaganda you are spouting here is truly troublesome.
This is not propaganda. We have actively killed thousands with guns, rockets and robots in the middle east. Thats literal fact.

See its easy to become a hypocrite
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
38,543
Arsenal can't get upset with Ozil when they have Visit Rwanda plastered all over the place. That's the real double standard here.
Just seen this and can’t believe the idiocy in here.

Rwanda is a beautiful country which is trying to rebuild. Tourism is one of the ways it can through: trekking, gorilla safaris etc.

Do some research before posting crap!
 

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
4,239
This is not propaganda. We have actively killed thousands with guns, rockets and robots in the middle east. Thats literal fact.

See its easy to become a hypocrite
Your "facts" are delusions. It's useless to argue with this level of falsehood, but you really should get some help.
 

Swoobs

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
761
Supports
Florentina
Wow the CCP’s propaganda budget must be huge...the 50cents army found its way into football forums!?

Very typical of these 50cents army or wumaos to engage in whataboutism or in general misdirect The focus of any discussions away from discussing atrocities committed by the CCP to some other somewhat related topics.

Back on topic, Ozil has every right to talk about the Uyghurs, hypocrite or not. Just because the British Empire committed atrocities in India, the Brits are not allowed to denounce Hitler’s Germany or Stalin? Just because Rooney once dived for a penalty and you did not condemned him, does that mean you should not condemn Rivaldo’s acting or Neymar rolling around in the World Cups? These are laughable logics
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
I really wonder how many people posting here on countries they have never even been? The middle East and especially Iraq was a prosperous and a beautiful country with high standards of living and lot of free support for the people. The same with Libya.
Yes both countries had brutal dictators who if you tried to get involved in politics would end up most probably dead. But ask the people or majority of the people what they would rather have, the chaos and destruction of their country or a safe and secure life, they would chose the safe and secure life.
It's the same in China too. Most Chinese want a safe and secure life compared to chaos and destruction.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,174
I really wonder how many people posting here on countries they have never even been? The middle East and especially Iraq was a prosperous and a beautiful country with high standards of living and lot of free support for the people.
When were you in Iraq?
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,255
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
Back on topic, Ozil has every right to talk about the Uyghurs, hypocrite or not. Just because the British Empire committed atrocities in India, the Brits are not allowed to denounce Hitler’s Germany or Stalin? Just because Rooney once dived for a penalty and you did not condemned him, does that mean you should not condemn Rivaldo’s acting or Neymar rolling around in the World Cups? These are laughable logics
Nope. The logic is that Ozil should be mindful of what people he is close to are doing when he talks about the oppression of the Uighurs.

The criticism is not because he is of Turkish heritage and Turkey and the Kurds have a history but rather because he is mates with a guy who is currently engaged in the killing and oppression of Kurdish people.
 

elánius

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
121
I actually believe that football players or football in general should be apolitical. You know, people doesnt follow MUTD or Arsenal or Messi and Ronaldo because they want to hear their opinions. I am not trying to say that they shoudl be silent or they are not entitled to have an opinion, I just dont think it fits into that enviroment. Its sport, so lets focus on sport. I dont want to hear from Rooney about LGBT agenda, I dont want to hear about Ozil about human rights somehwere on the other side of the planet. I want to enjoy football and nothing else and politic BS is killing it for me.

And to stick with this case. China is a huge business market and Arsenal doesnt want to lose it of course. Firstly I thought that Ozil will play there, but now I just feel that their PR instructed him and I believe they did what was necessary.
 

mancan92

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
10,211
Location
Loughborough university
Your "facts" are delusions. It's useless to argue with this level of falsehood, but you really should get some help.
Haha wait what? They are facts
https://www.theguardian.com/news/de...-abused-by-british-soldiers-we-may-never-know
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rikes-civilian-deaths-raqqa-mod-a8811781.html
https://www.theguardian.com/law/201...cused-covering-up-war-crimes-afghanistan-iraq

Etc etc hundreds of articles thousands of court cases. None will go anywhere but when you have the Mod saying they literally don't know how many civilian deaths? Are you kidding me?

That's what I mean. Look at what Britain is doing in other countries. We are all hypocrits.
 

LucasXXII

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
77
You clearly don't realise the horror of your saying "Only when one posts clear anti-party/anti-China messages do they put themselves at risk with the government" … but the more than one million Uyghurs in "re-education" camps do.

Wiki says: "Given conservative and variable estimates of executions in China, executions in China account for more than 65% in 2010 of those worldwide."

Wiki also says: "The exact numbers of people executed in Mainland China is classified as a state secret"

So a Chinese citizen wouldn't fare well if they publicly demanded to know how many Chinese citizens have been put to death by their own government.

So it hardly surprising that the people of Taiwan are not falling over themselves to become part of what "the CCP has accomplished in raising China from the ashes and making people's lives better."
Like I said I'm not getting into these tired debates about what the Chinese government did or not did and what they should do. I do not have an extreme stance on this either so no need to act like I'm a Chinese bot or something.

I was debunking your post saying that the Chinese people have no access to other perspectives, do not know what's happening around the world and are to be enlightened or liberated or whatever.

If you really think that you're wrong. Whatever your opinion on their current regime is, it's what the Chinese people have knowingly chosen.

I really wonder how many people posting here on countries they have never even been? The middle East and especially Iraq was a prosperous and a beautiful country with high standards of living and lot of free support for the people. The same with Libya.
Yes both countries had brutal dictators who if you tried to get involved in politics would end up most probably dead. But ask the people or majority of the people what they would rather have, the chaos and destruction of their country or a safe and secure life, they would chose the safe and secure life.
It's the same in China too. Most Chinese want a safe and secure life compared to chaos and destruction.
This post is bang on for example. This has been since WWII and is now what occupies the mind of a normal Chinese person.
 

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
4,239
Haha wait what? They are facts
https://www.theguardian.com/news/de...-abused-by-british-soldiers-we-may-never-know
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rikes-civilian-deaths-raqqa-mod-a8811781.html
https://www.theguardian.com/law/201...cused-covering-up-war-crimes-afghanistan-iraq

Etc etc hundreds of articles thousands of court cases. None will go anywhere but when you have the Mod saying they literally don't know how many civilian deaths? Are you kidding me?

That's what I mean. Look at what Britain is doing in other countries. We are all hypocrits.
The key difference is - British government didnt send those soldiers there with the purpose of terrorizing and displacing the civilians, Turkey did. Wars are horrible and ugly, but the two cases are not the same.

And I wasn't cheering on the missteps of Western actions, while Ozil the Erdogan's cheerleader did. Again - false equivalency to excuse bloody dictators.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Ozil or anyone else should be able to say what they want to say. He has the freedom to do so. His connection with Erdogan should not be taken into account. That said he should also be prepared to face the consequences of his comments.
 

mancan92

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
10,211
Location
Loughborough university
The key difference is - British government didnt send those soldiers there with the purpose of terrorizing and displacing the civilians, Turkey did. Wars are horrible and ugly, but the two cases are not the same.

And I wasn't cheering on the missteps of Western actions, while Ozil the Erdogan's cheerleader did. Again - false equivalency to excuse bloody dictators.
Yeah I think you need to learn about the history behind Turks and Kurds. I believe the people in Iraq also believe that Britain and american were terrorising them since soo many of them were killed. At the end of the day the reasons for the Iraq invasion started maybe with the right intentions but clearly it took a dark turn aswell with rape, war crimes, murder, control of government, oil etc etc. The middle east war has been horrendous on any scale.
 

fps

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
5,478
Why do people who speak out about certain things have to be perfect? Genuine question
Good question too. This is whataboutery and suggests we should either be ok with everything, or none of it. Sometimes an issue is itself the issue to look at.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,174
During the time of Saddam before the economic embargo and after the invasion when the country was a cluster feck. I have been there more than a few times.
During the war with Iran? Or just after?
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
Like I said I'm not getting into these tired debates about what the Chinese government did or not did and what they should do. I do not have an extreme stance on this either so no need to act like I'm a Chinese bot or something.

I was debunking your post saying that the Chinese people have no access to other perspectives, do not know what's happening around the world and are to be enlightened or liberated or whatever.

If you really think that you're wrong. Whatever your opinion on their current regime is, it's what the Chinese people have knowingly chosen.
Bollocks. The Chinese people have no choice. It's a one-party, totalitarian regime.

And the Chinese people have very little access to other perspectives. All the media is state-run, their internet access is heavily censored and they are fed little but state-propaganda.
 

Topgun1

Lewandowski lover
Newbie
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
321
Supports
Arsenal
The Chinese are a sensitive bunch.
China's soft-power play is finished, it's now seeking to impose its will around the world with sheer force. Just a sample:

"Arsenal have been warned China is set to maintain its state-sponsored media blackout against the club unless executives apologise over the Mesut Ozil Instagram furore."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...media-blackout-will-continue-club-apologises/

"China has warned Britain that the relationship between the two countries is at a "critical juncture" and will be at risk unless it goes ahead with the Hinkley Point nuclear power station." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...with-uk-at-risk-over-hinkley-point-delay-war/

"China has warned Britain against sailing ships through disputed waters in the South China Sea, saying that such a move would be "hostile" and hinting that Beijing would be forced to responded militarily." https://news.sky.com/story/china-th...uk-warships-go-near-disputed-islands-11805868

"China’s ambassador to Germany threatened Berlin with retaliation if it excludes Huawei Technologies Co. as a supplier of 5G wireless equipment, citing the millions of vehicles German carmakers sell in China."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...rmany-with-retaliation-if-huawei-5g-is-banned

"China’s state media has warned Australia risks “100 years of solitude” if it continues to strengthen military ties with the United States."
https://www.news.com.au/world/100-y...g/news-story/fc63cb8cb8a08e98606e0981333e8b65

"Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said on Friday Chinese counterpart China Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if Manila tried to enforce an arbitration ruling and drill for oil in a disputed part of the South China Sea."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-if-philippines-drills-for-oil-idUSKCN18F1DJ

"China has threatened "retaliatory measures" against New Zealand trade, warning it will slow the flow of dairy, wool and kiwifruit imports."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/fa...overnment-doesnt-back-off-cheap-steel-inquiry

"Chinese leader Xi Jinping has issued a new threat to use military force in Taiwan as Beijing intensifies efforts to achieve unification with the self-governing democratic region, holding up Hong Kong as a model for Taipei."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...-threatens-military-force-in-taiwan-holds-up/

"Chinese State Television Vows ‘Retribution’ Against N.B.A.’s Adam Silver"
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/19/sports/basketball/nba-china-adam-silver-retribution.html

"China will retaliate if Ottawa bans Huawei Technologies from supplying gear for its next-generation 5G mobile networks over espionage concerns, the country’s envoy said on Thursday, as he called the arrest of a company executive a “backstabbing" betrayal of Canada’s relationship with China."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...s-if-canada-bans-huawei-from-its-5g-networks/
 

LucasXXII

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
77
Bollocks. The Chinese people have no choice. It's a one-party, totalitarian regime.

And the Chinese people have very little access to other perspectives. All the media is state-run, their internet access is heavily censored and they are fed little but state-propaganda.
At this moment in time they wouldn't have it any other way and you should visit China and see it for yourself if you don't believe that.

I get the feeling that your thinking is if the Chinese people think and behave opposite to a westerner would do it's because of state propaganda. This is pure circular reasoning.

This kind of sentiment among the Chinese pople is not new. If Internet exists half a century ago what Ozil said would've caused mass outrage in China just as it did recently.
 

GlastonSpur

Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
17,716
Supports
Spurs
At this moment in time they wouldn't have it any other way and you should visit China and see it for yourself if you don't believe that.

I get the feeling that your thinking is if the Chinese people think and behave opposite to a westerner would do it's because of state propaganda. This is pure circular reasoning.

This kind of sentiment among the Chinese pople is not new. If Internet exists half a century ago what Ozil said would've caused mass outrage in China just as it did recently.
If I were to visit China and go around asking people what they thought about their one-party state, the massacre in Tiananmen Square and the 1 million Uyghurs locked up in concentration camps then (a) they wouldn't know about the latter two items because the state has blocked all news about from them; and (b) I'd either be arrested on some trumped up charge or expelled from the country.
 

syrian_scholes

Honorary Straw Hat
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
13,979
Location
Houston
We can people do it everyday all the time.
Everyone on the caf is perfect don't you know?

If I were to visit China and go around asking people what they thought about their one-party state, the massacre in Tiananmen Square and the 1 million Uyghurs locked up in concentration camps then (a) they wouldn't know about the latter two items because the state has blocked all news about from them; and (b) I'd either be arrested on some trumped up charge or expelled from the country.
It's like telling someone come to Syria and ask the people their opinions of Bashar Al Assad, even people who are against will shower him with praise because they are scared.

People being annoyed at Ozil for saying that he is against massacres against Muslim people in China are either islamophobes who actually have a different agenda or Chinese people trying to tell everyone how everything is fine in China.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
42,729
People being annoyed at Ozil for saying that he is against massacres against Muslim people in China are either islamophobes who actually have a different agenda or Chinese people trying to tell everyone how everything is fine in China.
No one is saying how everything is fine over there, they are simply attempting to separate fact from fiction, and challenging myths propagated by the media. It's no different than you calling out western hypocrisy in the Saudi takeover threads tbh. And islamophobes, really? That's almost like a jewish person crying anti-semitism whenever someone questions Israeli policies. I don't see any islamophobia here, and terrorism was a real problem for the chinese a couple years ago when al-qaeda/isis were still rampant, innocent chinese civilians were slaughtered on the streets by uyghur extremists wielding machetes. The problem I see with Ozil's comments, and hypocrisy regarding his own relationship and support for Erdogan, is that he may only care about certain people and not actually about whats right or wrong.
 

syrian_scholes

Honorary Straw Hat
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
13,979
Location
Houston
No one is saying how everything is fine over there, they are simply attempting to separate fact from fiction, and challenging myths propagated by the media. It's no different than you calling out western hypocrisy in the Saudi takeover threads tbh. And islamophobes, really? That's almost like a jewish person crying anti-semitism whenever someone questions Israeli policies. I don't see any islamophobia here, and terrorism was a real problem for the chinese a couple years ago when al-qaeda/isis were still rampant, innocent chinese civilians were slaughtered on the streets by uyghur extremists wielding machetes. The problem I see with Ozil's comments, and hypocrisy regarding his own relationship and support for Erdogan, is that he may only care about certain people and not actually about whats right or wrong.
So some extremists did some crazy shit so it's okay to massacre a whole race? How do you think these terrorists get born? As for my point for those people being islamophobes I wonder how many people would be voicing their concerns about massacres against a certain minority if this minority wasn't Muslim, we both know the answer to that.

Edit: even if Ozil is a hypocrite I'd rather address the points he brought up rather than discuss his faults, because the issue is bigger than wether Ozil is a hypocrite or not.
 

R'hllor

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
15,414
Thinking they are the good guys, next level of delusion, two different sides of same shit cnut coin.

Back to topic, Arsenal kinda sold him out but hey, green is true value for that side of the story.
 

Charles Miller

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
3,046
Guy is a saint. Helped a lot of poor local kids during 2014 wc, and even after the tournament.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Of China is pushing their interests. Every country does. The point is China is an authorization dictatorship and hence you don't see the violence as in the World's largest democracy wherever they demonstrate and then get shot by the police. If they can't demonstrate then no one gets shot.
The US has sanctioned any company that does business with Russia in laying down the Nord Stream 2. This has got nothing to do with the USA and is strictly a matter for the EU. At least so far the Chinese has not started to sanction companies that has got nothing to do with their own business. But maybe they would start too.
It's more hypocritical for people living in the countries that apply sanctions to business that have got nothing to do with them to comment on Chinese matters that at least has a connection with their own business.

Furthermore there is a huge difference between Syria and China. Both are authoritarian dictatorships but one tortures and kills people regularly while other is not so violent and has brought millions of people out of poverty.