Parallels with the Tampa Bay buccaneers

[VJ1762]

So, with the conclusion of today's games, our league start reads 2W, 2D, 2L. Perfectly balanced.Apparently our worst ever start to the PL season. We have a coach at the helm who has no clue. We have owners who have no clue. Mediocre players starting for the club. Now, I don't follow the NFL, but apparently the Glazers own this team there and they haven't won the NFL finals since 2003. Their win-loss % per season is appalling for the past 16 seasons.

Should we as fans lower our expectations even more? It looks like the glazers don't care about the product they are putting out on the field. In the past 6 years, we have gone from perennial title winners/contenders to contenders for a top 4 finish to contenders for a top 6 finish to contenders in what looks like a top 10- top 15 finish this season. Should our expectations be to finish in the top 6 with occasional forays into the champions league? Because this title drought looks like it will last longer than 26 years.

In contrast, the FSG ownership at Liverpool has revitalised the club and has placed it as one of the dominant forces of this era in English football along with Man City. Their team in the MLB has won 4 championships since their takeover of the Boston Red Sox.

Is there any way at all to get the glazers, woodward and Ole out? I don't know if there is light at the end of the tunnel for this club.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I didn't know there was such a stark contrast between the peformance of US teams that our and Liverpool owners run. And it appears we are stuck with them with no recourse. This whole foreign ownership nonsense is a joke really. Can turn clowns into the most successful team (City) and the visa versa (us).

 

[hungrywing]

Uncanny, isn't it?

Btw a while back in the Glazer thread there was someone spreading misinformation; namely that the Glazers had taken the Bucs from the laughingstock of the league to a consistent mid-level team. So good on this thread for isolating the parallel between the franchises, (even if it's been pointed out many times)

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fans need to have a say about their club's ownership. They should not be allowed to merely become an individual's personal property.

 

[Sky1981]

Fans need to have a say about their club's ownership. They should not be allowed to merely become an individual's personal property.

Looking back our fans isnt any wiser.

If left to fans we might end up with ole as dof and ryann giggs as manager

 

[Fridge chutney]

Can turn clowns into the most successful team (City) and the visa versa (us)

I laughed at this, because it's true. Very sad, but comically true.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Looking back our fans isnt any wiser.

If left to fans we might end up with ole as dof and ryann giggs as manager

I suppose. But I don't believe the majority hold those views while acknowledging that fans can be swayed as per emotion and not logic (as happened with Ole actually).

Something like a president model as is the case in Spain where you elect the CEO effectively between Woodward and there other blokes might work. They then pick their DoFs and their managers as per their vision of the club. If refined enough it could be a good enough model I reckon. I mean at least it would have accountability with the fans able to sack the man in charge.

But regardless the above wouldn't correct incomplete ownership.

 

[Harry190]

We're closer to the Italian giants. AC and Inter.

 

[Red_toad]

Fans need to have a say about their club's ownership. They should not be allowed to merely become an individual's personal property.

We all had the chance to buy into the club and have a say when it was a plc. Shame so many cnuts owned the majority of the shares and were happy to sell them.

 

[shahzy]

I don't know if there is light at the end of the tunnel for this club.

The only light will come when we start losing money and sponsors start leaving. It will probably start happening soon. Companies want to be associated with winners. Its good for brand identity. This current Man Utd are not winners, they are a bunch of losers. Soon the the tide will turn and the sponsors won't want to be associated with man utd. This is when we will see the leeches leave. Bleed the club dry and when its firmly sliding down the slippery slop is when they will leave.

 

[Red_toad]

Looking back our fans isnt any wiser.

If left to fans we might end up with ole as dof and ryann giggs as manager

No we wouldn’t. Seems the fans now hate all of our players past and present.

Plus Giggsy kinda shat on his chances by shaggin his brothers wife.

 

[VJ1762]

We're closer to the Italian giants. AC and Inter.

I agree, but the point was to illustrate how both teams are bad under the same ownership.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The only light will come when we start losing money and sponsors start leaving. It will probably start happening soon. Companies want to be associated with winners. Its good for brand identity. This current Man Utd are not winners, they are a bunch of losers. Soon the the tide will turn and the sponsors won't want to be associated with man utd. This is when we will see the leeches leave. Bleed the club dry and when its firmly sliding down the slippery slop is when they will leave.

If we don't buckle up soon, that's what will finally happen - a financial decline. We cannot continue to be rubbish on the pitch and an elite club off it. We have a window where this disproportion can exist and we are exhausting it quickly.

 

[mariachi-19]

Jesus feck.

Completely ignoring that fact that the feckwit sat on the lounge next to Roy Keane today wasted nearly half a billion (honestly surprised Keane didn't knock him the feck out for doing what he did) on shit, the club has seen investment. Its the fact that its been invested incorrectly by managers who are past it.

 

[Skills]

Looking back our fans isnt any wiser.

If left to fans we might end up with ole as dof and ryann giggs as manager

Fan ownership would be the worst thing possible for this club.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Jesus feck.

Completely ignoring that fact that the feckwit sat on the lounge next to Roy Keane today wasted nearly half a billion (honestly surprised Keane didn't knock him the feck out for doing what he did) on shit, the club has seen investment. Its the fact that its been invested incorrectly by managers who are past it.

That doesn't help of course. 50 million on Fred. God knows how much on salaries to Sanchez. What an utter mess.

 

[Brophs]

The main parallel is that we have a dressing room full of helmets.

 

[Lyng]

Fan ownership would be the worst thing possible for this club.

Works great for Bayern

 

[Eric7C]

Bleak.

 

[chicha14]

The root cause of all this drivel, get this lot out of the club!

 

[Organic Potatoes]

• Tampa Bay Buccaneers
• Boston Red Sox
• Manchester United

None of these things belong with the others. Odd comparison...

 

[shahzy]

We have a window where this disproportion can exist and we are exhausting it quickly.

Exactly. 100% agreed. This grace period has been going on for about 6 years now. Let's say it extends and hits 10 years, im sure by then we will see money going down.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Exactly. 100% agreed. This grace period has been going on for about 6 years now. Let's say it extends and hits 10 years, im sure by then we will see money going down.

I agree. There's only so long we can live off the brand created by our 92-13 success. I mean, we'll remain a big club as Liverpool did. But I'm not sure we'll be able to have an edge financially over others if we continue to flounder on the pitch. Kids growing up these days (globally) will see a greater lure in following Liverpool and City with Salah, KDB etc being their heroes as opposed Jlingz and co.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So what, exactly, is the win % of the Glazers yank team vs the win % of the scousers yank team?

 

[VJ1762]

• Tampa Bay Buccaneers
• Boston Red Sox
• Manchester United

None of these things belong with the others. Odd comparison...

I have explained it in the thread.People who own Liverpool also have a successful MLB team, whereas people who own Man Utd also own another dysfunctional team. What do you find odd?

 

[JPRouve]

Uncanny, isn't it?

Btw a while back in the Glazer thread there was someone spreading misinformation; namely that the Glazers had taken the Bucs from the laughingstock of the league to a consistent mid-level team. So good on this thread for isolating the parallel between the franchises, (even if it's been pointed out many times)

They did, the Bucs were the worst franchise ever and only started to be around .500 under the Glazers, also that one Superbowl was under the Glazers. Also there are no comparison to make with the MLB, in the MLB(no cap) you can keep players while the NFL free agency and cap management will see a substantial part of your team get ripped after a couple of good seasons.

 

[VJ1762]

So what, exactly, is the win % of the Glazers yank team vs the win % of the scousers yank team?

I don't know about the win % of the MLB team, but apparently Boston Red Sox didn't win the MLB title for like 80 years or something before FSG came into the picture. They have now won 4 championships after the takeover. That situation is an uncanny resemblance to Liverpool's with their league title drought of 29 years.And they have been rising steadily in stature ever since FSG bought them. Tampa Bay have had win % of 18, 30, 31 and 40 in the past 16 seasons,with 1 title in 2003. And we have certainly become a dysfunctional team under them.

 

[100]

The main parallel is that we have a dressing room full of helmets.

 

[VJ1762]

They did, the Bucs were the worst franchise ever and only started to be around .500 under the Glazers, also that one Superbowl was under the Glazers. Also there are no comparison to make with the MLB, in the MLB(no cap) you can keep players while the NFL free agency and cap management will see a substantial part of your team get ripped after a couple of good seasons.

But the clubs under FSG have been revitalised, whereas the clubs under Glazer ownership have failed. Salary cap or no salary cap, the win % of Tampa bay has been abysmal in the past several seasons. The same can be said for us. Clearly the glazers have no clue about how to run sports teams/clubs and apparently even their mall business is dying. They have contributed nothing to the club.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

I have explained it in the thread.People who own Liverpool also have a successful MLB team, whereas people who own Man Utd also own another dysfunctional team. What do you find odd?

The financial structures and pathways to reward are completely different. There’s no connection.

It’s like people on an airplane wondering why their tractors on the farm aren’t as fast as their boats.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't know about the win % of the MLB team, but apparently Boston Red Sox didn't win the MLB title for like 80 years or something before FSG came into the picture. They have now won 4 championships after the takeover. That situation is an uncanny resemblance to Liverpool's with their league title drought of 29 years.And they have been rising steadily in stature ever since FSG bought them. Tampa Bay have had win % of 18, 30, 31 and 40 in the past 16 seasons,with 1 title in 2003. And we have certainly become a dysfunctional team under them.

Even more confused now.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Jesus feck.

Completely ignoring that fact that the feckwit sat on the lounge next to Roy Keane today wasted nearly half a billion (honestly surprised Keane didn't knock him the feck out for doing what he did) on shit, the club has seen investment. Its the fact that its been invested incorrectly by managers who are past it.

Exactly this.

Look at the spending table and we aren't THAT far behind City at all.

The problem is while they've spent smartly on the likes of Silva x2, Aguero, KDB, Sterling... every star player we've bought has failed.

 

[JPRouve]

But the clubs under FSG have been revitalised, whereas the clubs under Glazer ownership have failed. Salary cap or no salary cap, the win % of Tampa bay has been abysmal in the past several seasons. The same can be said for us. Clearly the glazers have no clue about how to run sports teams/clubs and apparently even their mall business is dying. They have contributed nothing to the club.

It's fairly straightforward to revitalise an MLB franchise, you just need to spend more than the rest, the cap mechanisms are very important that's why no one who follows both sports will make that type of comparisons. In the NFL you can't take multiple top free agents every years, due to the existence of a hard cap. Their win percentage is also not abysmal, it's not good but it's fairly normal for a franchise that isn't in a SB window and it's also for a large part due to the fact that they have been in a tough division with teams that were in a SB window.