Park Ji-Sung asks United fans to stop singing his chant

Solius

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My god the cafe never fails to amaze me. He’s asked us to stop singing it so stop singing it. Simple as that.
Naive of us to ever expect this not to reach 17 pages and out multiple bigots.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
Why would this particular thing be negative but to appeal to white western standards? I actually don't care if people eat dog meat and don't think it should be seen as an issue. each to their own. It seems certain people are fighting to be accepted by certain other groups
I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying that the people singing it didn't see eating dogs as negative? Personally I don't see eating dog meat as different to any meat. To me it's just a cultural difference. So I wouldn't put it in a song because it's of no interest to me. But it was put in that song because of it's perception here.

My broad point was that truth in a statement isn't a clear defence from racism.
 

Rood

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My god the cafe never fails to amaze me. He’s asked us to stop singing it so stop singing it. Simple as that.
I keep seeing pointless posts like this -
There is literally no one in this thread who said they will keep singing it

All the discussion is about whether it's racist or not (I personally think not) and what is/isn't acceptable to sing nowadays - which are perfectly valid discussions with no clear answers
 

Trequarista10

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Maybe you don't know what obligation means.
Morally bound. It's not forced. For example, I'm not forced to reply to your post, but I'm morally bound to.

In answer to your other post, yes, Koreans who consider it racist are self loathing of their own cultures' declining practise. That's literally the point. Park says himself, people in Korea now hate it. They are ashamed of it. Which is why its declining.
 

sullydnl

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Park, a Korean: "This is regularly used as a racial insult against Korean people, it makes us uncomfortable, please stop"

Redcafe poster #1, not Korean: "Let me tell you what is and isn't anti-Korean racism...."

Redcafe poster #2, not Korean: "Actually, I think you'll find Koreans technically do eat dogs so it can't be an insult"

Redcafe poster #3, not Korean: "Actually, the people who think it's racist against Koreans are the real racists"

Redcafe poster #4, not Korean: "Are you calling me a racist?" [Banned for being a racist]

Etc, etc.
 

Solius

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Park, a Korean: "This is regularly used as a racial insult against Korean people, it makes us uncomfortable, please stop"

Redcafe poster #1, not Korean: "Let me tell you what is and isn't anti-Korean racism...."

Redcafe poster #2, not Korean: "Actually, I think you'll find Koreans technically do eat dogs so it can't be an insult"

Redcafe poster #3, not Korean: "Actually, the people who think it's racist against Koreans are the real racists"

Redcafe poster #4, not Korean: "Are you calling me a racist?" [Banned for being a racist]

Etc, etc.
The guy who actually said "Are you calling me a racist" had previously called Jewish people 'penny pinchers' on here. Baffling how he was so taken aback by the accusation.
 

Tarrou

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what you are saying is it may be true but it's distasteful to make a song about? Isn't it different if some people actually still enjoy the food today as opposed to lynching people or putting individuals in a gas champer which no one will claim to enjoy and are sensitive topics that bring a lot of pain to the descendants of the victims?
I don't think there was any malice intended against Koreans by whoever thought up the song nor by any United fans who were singing it back in the day. But that doesn't really matter now when we have Korean people telling us they find it offensive.

and to be clear the reason they find it offensive is primarily related to the animal cruelty involved including the torture of the dogs by beating them whilst alive to tenderise the meat, and killing them by electrocution

I'm not trying to compare eating dog to the holocaust so there is no point in labouring that point.. it was just an example to illustrate that just because something is true it doesn't meant it's okay to say it
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
Morally bound. It's not forced. For example, I'm not forced to reply to your post, but I'm morally bound to.

In answer to your other post, yes, Koreans who consider it racist are self loathing of their own cultures' declining practise. That's literally the point. Park says himself, people in Korea now hate it. They are ashamed of it. Which is why its declining.
It's not solely moral, you can be legally obliged, so it is sort of forced.

Anyway. We just disagree on who gets to decide what's offensive.
 

Trequarista10

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It's not solely moral, you can be legally obliged, so it is sort of forced.

Anyway. We just disagree on who gets to decide what's offensive.
Nothing in my post suggested legal obligation.

Offense is subjective, I assume we agree on that. Racism isn't subjective. You're either being prejudicial/discriminatory or you're not.
 
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plasticpadyy89

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I’ve been shadowing red cafe since 06. But this is enough. If Park ji sung as it’s properly said wants us to stop singing it. Stop singing it. Im happy to have a dialogue with anyone who has an actual issue.
 

Stacks

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I don't think there was any malice intended against Koreans by whoever thought up the song nor by any United fans who were singing it back in the day. But that doesn't really matter now when we have Korean people telling us they find it offensive.

and to be clear the reason they find it offensive is primarily related to the animal cruelty involved including the torture of the dogs by beating them whilst alive to tenderise the meat, and killing them by electrocution

I'm not trying to compare eating dog to the holocaust so there is no point in labouring that point.. it was just an example to illustrate that just because something is true it doesn't meant it's okay to say it
fair enough. But how is other meat prepared?
 

Bestietom

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I know this was a post a couple of years ago. But I would love someone to put different words to the tune Matchstalk men as our Anthem.
I could just hear the stretford enders in voice with this tune during games.
I am sick and tired of hearing the Scousers anthem, and feel this tune could outdo it.
What do you think.?
 

Tarrou

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fair enough. But how is other meat prepared?
we're going way down the rabbit hole with that one :)

and I'd agree it's a bit hypocritical to focus just on dogs, and other animals are treated poorly too (if thats your point).. but lets not derail the thread

Park's said its offensive, thats enough for me
 

Berbasbullet

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I keep seeing pointless posts like this -
There is literally no one in this thread who said they will keep singing it

All the discussion is about whether it's racist or not (I personally think not) and what is/isn't acceptable to sing nowadays - which are perfectly valid discussions with no clear answers
I think it’s pretty obvious to stop singing a chant about someones fellow countryman eating dogs when the player the chant is about has asked for it to stop being sung.
 

plasticpadyy89

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It’s also an extremely sensitive issue in South Korea at the moment which is why hes asking for it to stop. How hard is it to respect the wishes of a man who gave his all to this club.
 

Cloud7

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Naive of us to ever expect this not to reach 17 pages and out multiple bigots.
They're outing themselves easier and easier these days IMO. Before, they used to try to be a little subtle, and often needed to go on for a while before they outed themselves, but these days it's one or two posts later and you have that 'there it is' moment.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
Probably will get backlash from my comment, but 1 million dogs are eaten in South Korea every year.

It's not racist or xenophobic, it's a tasteless stereotype, saying that all Koreans eat dog. It's really no different to the stereotype that all English people drink tea or all Scottish people eat Haggis.
It is very different because of the perception of the people singing it. Britain is well known for it's love of dogs as pets, and borderline family members, so in this context it does have an element of judgement and ridicule rather than a neutral statement of fact.
 

Rood

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I think it’s pretty obvious to stop singing a chant about someones fellow countryman eating dogs when the player the chant is about has asked for it to stop being sung.
And show me which posts in this thread disagree with that
 

Offsideagain

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Perhaps the reference to our good friends from Liverpool eating rats in their council house which is the pure definition racism, is what is upsetting Park.The Oxford English Dictionary states ‘Racism (noun) prejudice, discrimination , or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalised’.
 

Halftrack

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I get why this one is bad but still don't understand the issue with Lukaku's.
The idea that black guys have big dongs is a stereotype, with no scientific backing. It has its origins in the very racist Mandingo stereotype, wherein black men are depicted as well-endowed, hypersexual and animalistic, incapable of being civilised. It was promoted by white slave owners to justify keeping them as slaves. Today, it's mostly promoted (and reinforced) in porn (where they specifically select for it).

Hence why it's seen as a very problematic stereotype, even if it might seem complimentary to the uninformed.
 

Stacks

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It is very different because of the perception of the people singing it. Britain is well known for it's love of dogs as pets, and borderline family members, so in this context it does have an element of judgement and ridicule rather than a neutral statement of fact.
definitely. In the west it is something that is seen as wrong
 

JPRouve

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It wasn't funny 30, 15 or a year ago. It's one of the many awkward songs that exist in Football and can't really be defended.
 

Flytan

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The idea that black guys have big dongs is a stereotype, with no scientific backing. It has its origins in the very racist Mandingo stereotype, wherein black men are depicted as well-endowed, hypersexual and animalistic, incapable of being civilised. It was promoted by white slave owners to justify keeping them as slaves. Today, it's mostly promoted (and reinforced) in porn (where they specifically select for it).

Hence why it's seen as a very problematic stereotype, even if it might seem complimentary to the uninformed.
Not uninformed but thanks.
 

Stacks

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https://eu.usatoday.com/in-depth/ne...ogs-every-year-but-thats-changing/2930025002/
according to USA today, about 2.5 million dogs are raised in South Korean dog farms each year. About 1 million are killed and eaten . for comparison the UK has approx 4.8 million pigs so double the number. Also estimated 17,000 dog farms. It seems Park is more embarrassed by the practice rather than suggesting it isn't being consumed. Out of respect for a United player everyone should cease as the players are supposed to feel good about the songs we sing to them.
 
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Not uninformed but thanks.
"I don't understand why this is racist"

*gets detailed explanation about why it is racist and why a lot of people seemingly aren't informed of the context*

"I'm not uninformed but kthx"

Park, a Korean: "This is regularly used as a racial insult against Korean people, it makes us uncomfortable, please stop"

Redcafe poster #1, not Korean: "Let me tell you what is and isn't anti-Korean racism...."

Redcafe poster #2, not Korean: "Actually, I think you'll find Koreans technically do eat dogs so it can't be an insult"

Redcafe poster #3, not Korean: "Actually, the people who think it's racist against Koreans are the real racists"

Redcafe poster #4, not Korean: "Are you calling me a racist?" [Banned for being a racist]

Etc, etc.
Sums up so much of this thread (:
 

Winrar

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My parents were actually looking at a documentary yesterday about debating on consumption of dog meat in the country

A lot of opposition to it currently, but there are longstanding businesses and restaurants that have to deal with this issue so there's not a black and white solution to it currently. A tricky situation right now for sure, but the consumption of dog meat is generally on the decline, especially with younger generations who are conscious of how their country image looks like outside Korea. Personally, my grandfather was the only person in extended family that ate dog meat but he passed away last year, so I can say from second hand experience that dog eating is a dying process both figuratively and literally.
 
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Why are you misquoting me?
I actually hadn't even looked at your older posts in this thread until just now. Thought that was the first time you'd pulled the "I don't know why this is racist, just saying" routine.

Good to know my initial reaction was fair!
 

Robertd0803

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Well hes asked so that should be good enough for anyone who needs a reason.
 

BlueHaze

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Maybe an unpopular opinion but Park is on my all time fav list of players.

I always hated this chant. I hope they still sing some chant about him though.
 

JPRouve

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A fact can be used pejoratively and that usage can be racist. It's a simple concept.
 

Flytan

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I actually hadn't even looked at your older posts in this thread until just now. Thought that was the first time you'd pulled the "I don't know why this is racist, just saying" routine.

Good to know my initial reaction was fair!
Again you're quoting something I didn't say, stop.