Park Ji-Sung asks United fans to stop singing his chant

JPRouve

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I get why this one is bad but still don't understand the issue with Lukaku's.

I'll probably be yelled at for thinking that though.
Again you're quoting something I didn't say, stop.
So the bolded part doesn't mean that you don't understand why it's racist?
 
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Doesn't understand the issue with singing a racist song, in all likelihood.

I wouldn't waste too much time getting into it, people like this are usually just trying to get bites.
 

Flytan

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So the bolded part doesn't mean that you don't understand why it's racist?
No I entirely understand why someone says it is racist and when lukaku didn't like it, was fine with the song being changed.

But my personal belief of enjoying a little dark humor when it's essentially harmless (again an opinion, I believe you can say something controversial with the innocent intent, just for laughs/memes and depending on the audience I'm sure you've done so too)
 

JPRouve

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No I entirely understand why someone says it is racist and when lukaku didn't like it, was fine with the song being changed.

But my personal belief of enjoying a little dark humor when it's essentially harmless (again an opinion, I believe you can say something controversial with the innocent intent, just for laughs/memes and depending on the audience I'm sure you've done so too)
So you understand that the song has a racist background and you don't understand why singing it to someone you don't know and has no close relationship with is problematic? Would you enjoy dark racist humour with someone you don't know at all?
 

Flytan

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So you understand that the song has a racist background and you don't understand why singing it to someone you don't know and has no close relationship with is problematic? Would you enjoy dark racist humour with someone you don't know at all?
The song was about the length of his penis correct?

But yes, I don't see the song as anything meant with bad intent and when lukaku had a problem with it it was changed. Not like I'm fighting tooth and nail to have it changed back or something. Nor did I create the song. I just thought it was funny. And yes, I would, if they did too.
 

JPRouve

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The song was about the length of his penis correct?

But yes, I don't see the song as anything meant with bad intent and when lukaku had a problem with it it was changed. Not like I'm fighting tooth and nail to have it changed back or something. Nor did I create the song. I just thought it was funny. And yes, I would, if they did too.
The thing that I don't understand is that you seem to not care about the recipient before saying something. To me it's a bit strange.
 

Flytan

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The thing that I don't understand is that you seem to not care about the recipient before saying something. To me it's a bit strange.
I know your name from around the forums for a while and you weren't (in my eyes at least) being intentionally annoying about this.
 

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Not uninformed but thanks.
Then you shouldn't have said "I don't see the issue with it", you should have said "I think it's okay to sing racist songs for a bit of a laugh" to let us all know you're a bit of a dick with nothing of value to contribute on this topic.
 

redMundo

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I think it's a pretty weak argument to say it's okay because it's true. Most stereotypes derive from at least a grain of truth, but it doesn't make them any less harmful.

Would it be okay to sing "you used to gas jews in your country" to German players then? It's true after all. And in American they used to lynch black people, and they still shoot up schools all the time. Clearly there is much more to consider than if something is true or not.

You might not care but I wouldn't like it if people's first impression of me when I told them I was British was "oh you guys terrorise and kill Foxes for sport".

I'm not trying to be patronising here but if you look into the studies about the historical dehumanisation of black people and the impact it still has on society today (for example people are more likely to be okay with a black person being beaten by police) then it's easy to see how these stereotypes become a slippery slope towards treating a group of people differently based on how they look.

On your last comment, if "the beautiful game" involves the racial stereotyping of a group of people, to the point where they have to come out and ask us not to do it - then it's not that beautiful is it? Some things need to change.
No offence to you personally Tarrou but this sort of post is exactly what I see as the issue with football being over politicised and the general hyper sensitivity of modern culture.

I mean not everything is black and white, there are grey areas and it’s our job through our life experiences to work out what’s ok and what’s not from these grey area subjects and then act accordingly in a decent manner.

I’m openly engaging in a fair and balanced discussion to try to understand both sides of an argument so that I can make a conclusion on my own feelings. The issue is that unless you immediately unequivocally slam the song and say it’s wrong then people assume you must be racist. I am certainly not.

I have no idea what the horrors that WW2 Jews suffered or historical enslavement of black people have to do with this.

You obviously should have to tread more cautiously when talking about mass genocide in which millions of innocent people died than you do when bringing up someone’s diet. Is that not a clear morally aware, humane way of thinking?
I actually belive things like this chant trivialise genuine movements against actual stereotyping/race hate issues.

The huge faux outrage to unwarranted issues really does hamper things when trying to sort out serious problems. Actual racist issues get diluted, lost and clouded behind all the unworthy subjects so that things which should be focused on and highlighted are often brushed under the carpet.
Then new public outcry takes over for a little while.
Then the cycle continues.
 
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Dr. Dwayne

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If it was 'Blanc' instead of 'Park' and 'frogs' instead of 'dogs', nobody would give a shit, of course.
We don't chant about Martial, Pogba, or Varane eating frogs so why chant about food anyway?
Park gave an interview once where he talked about drinking frog juice and the positive benefit it had on his fitness.
 

Tarrou

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No offence to you personally Tarrou but this sort of post is exactly what I see as the issue with football being over politicised and the general hyper sensitivity of modern culture.

I mean not everything is black and white, there are grey areas and it’s our job through our life experiences to work out what’s ok and what’s not from these grey area subjects and then act accordingly in a decent manner.

I’m openly engaging in a fair and balanced discussion to try to understand both sides of an argument so that I can make a conclusion on my own feelings. The issue is that unless you immediately unequivocally slam the song and say it’s wrong then people assume you must be racist. I am certainly not.

I have no idea what the horrors that WW2 Jews suffered or historical enslavement of black people have to do with this.

You obviously should have to tread more cautiously when talking about mass genocide in which millions of innocent people died than you do when bringing up someone’s diet. Is that not a clear morally aware, humane way of thinking?
I actually belive things like this chant trivialise genuine movements against actual stereotyping/race hate issues.

The huge faux outrage to unwarranted issues really does hamper things when trying to sort out serious problems. Actual racist issues get diluted, lost and clouded behind all the unworthy subjects so that things which should be focused on and highlighted are often brushed under the carpet.
Then new public outcry takes over for a little while.
Then the cycle continues.
its not that hard to understand

it was an example of why "its okay to say it because its true" is flawed logic

there's really no need to get all worked up about it

if you believe a Korean man telling us something is deeply offensive and racist is "faux outrage" then I don't know what to say to you
 

frostbite

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Park gave an interview once where he talked about drinking frog juice and the positive benefit it had on his fitness.
I couldn't believe this, so I google it, and it seems it was on the papers. It is the Sun but still... What is this "frog juice"?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/6285462/manchester-united-park-ji-sung-frog-juice/

So, perhaps this version is acceptable to all?

Park, Park, wherever you may be,
You drink frog juice in your country,
It could be worse,
You could be scouse,
Eating rats in your council house...
(hopefully killed humanely)
 
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From 2010 i remember at games Park had a new chant anyway that was really good too:

Don't sell my Park
My ji sung Park
I just don't think you'll understand.
If you sell my Park
My Ji Sung Park
You're gonna have a riot on your hands
 

J.Cruyff

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The Koreans don’t like that chant because eating dog meat is looked at with disgust in many parts of the world and to be fair their younger generation of people also look down on it too.

The people from the outside that look in disgust and get their knickers in a twist about people eating dogs whilst they happy enough to have rabbit meat and cow flesh on their plates.

Total hypocrisy from start to finish.
 

AllGoodNamesRGone

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No I entirely understand why someone says it is racist and when lukaku didn't like it, was fine with the song being changed.

But my personal belief of enjoying a little dark humor when it's essentially harmless (again an opinion, I believe you can say something controversial with the innocent intent, just for laughs/memes and depending on the audience I'm sure you've done so too)
Racism is ok as long as you can get a giggle from it.
 

JPRouve

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No offence to you personally Tarrou but this sort of post is exactly what I see as the issue with football being over politicised and the general hyper sensitivity of modern culture.

I mean not everything is black and white, there are grey areas and it’s our job through our life experiences to work out what’s ok and what’s not from these grey area subjects and then act accordingly in a decent manner.

I’m openly engaging in a fair and balanced discussion to try to understand both sides of an argument so that I can make a conclusion on my own feelings. The issue is that unless you immediately unequivocally slam the song and say it’s wrong then people assume you must be racist. I am certainly not.

I have no idea what the horrors that WW2 Jews suffered or historical enslavement of black people have to do with this.

You obviously should have to tread more cautiously when talking about mass genocide in which millions of innocent people died than you do when bringing up someone’s diet. Is that not a clear morally aware, humane way of thinking?
I actually belive things like this chant trivialise genuine movements against actual stereotyping/race hate issues.

The huge faux outrage to unwarranted issues really does hamper things when trying to sort out serious problems. Actual racist issues get diluted, lost and clouded behind all the unworthy subjects so that things which should be focused on and highlighted are often brushed under the carpet.
Then new public outcry takes over for a little while.
Then the cycle continues.
The problem is that you are not the one deciding what is a warranted issue or not, the people at the receiving end of the action are the ones deciding that. And in this case a korean man told you that it wasn't okay, there is no outrage, let alone faux outrage, it's a simple statement from someone that is actually concerned by the topic.
 

redMundo

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The problem is that you are not the one deciding what is a warranted issue or not, the people at the receiving end of the action are the ones deciding that. And in this case a korean man told you that it wasn't okay, there is no outrage, let alone faux outrage, it's a simple statement from someone that is actually concerned by the topic.
Right or Wrong is not decided by who is on the receiving end. It doesn’t work like that, otherwise guilty/not guilty verdicts would be given by the victims in court cases. All sorts of bias or ulterior motives can affect someone’s perception.

I could choose to be offended by your tone towards me and ask you to be friendlier instead of showing your disdain for my opinion, doesn’t mean my issue is warranted…it means I have an issue (warranted or otherwise).

I’m going to leave it there anyway, I’ve commented on this much more than my interest in the subject deserves.

Park has asked us to stop singing the song, the song doesn’t benefit us, we like Park so makes sense to just drop the chant anyway.
 

matherto

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How does one paint a cultural practice as a racial slur? These people in the video below say themselves or people around them eat or have eaten dog meat. Its not some made up thing that people just started saying to be abusive. No smoke without fire and apparently fairly common with older Koreans and past generations as well as those in rural areas. Park as with other younger Koreans probably realised that to western countries it (eating dog meat) can come off as weird and so be taken as an insult in that setting but maybe he is being Westernized because you should never be ashamed of your countries cuisine, especially when influenced by the opinions of foreigners. I say "bon appetit"

It’s used in a derogatory manner. Therefore it doesn’t matter if it’s actually true or not.
 
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Right or Wrong is not decided by who is on the receiving end. It doesn’t work like that, otherwise guilty/not guilty verdicts would be given by the victims in court cases. All sorts of bias or ulterior motives can affect someone’s perception.

I could choose to be offended by your tone towards me and ask you to be friendlier instead of showing your disdain for my opinion, doesn’t mean my issue is warranted…it means I have an issue (warranted or otherwise).

I’m going to leave it there anyway, I’ve commented on this much more than my interest in the subject deserves.

Park has asked us to stop singing the song, the song doesn’t benefit us, we like Park so makes sense to just drop the chant anyway.
Another example of the typical weirdo who trots into threads like this playing innocent with the "genuinely confused here, can someone please explain why this is considered offensive? I'm curious" act, and takes roughly five posts to switch over to blabbering about over-politicization of the game, "faux-outrage", and how "if Park is so bothered by this factually accurate chant he should talk to his country's leaders instead of being offended by fans that love him".

Please leave it here before you make an even bigger prat of yourself.

Damn those people pointing out racism who are getting in the way of us considering even worse racism. PC gone mad I tell you.
Haha, just saw they did the "we waste time focusing on this overly-PC nonsense instead of REAL RACISM" routine too. What a waster.
 

redMundo

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Another example of the typical weirdo who trots into threads like this playing innocent with the "genuinely confused here, can someone please explain why this is considered offensive? I'm curious" act, and takes roughly five posts to switch over to blabbering about over-politicization of the game, "faux-outrage", and how "if Park is so bothered by this factually accurate chant he should talk to his country's leaders instead of being offended by fans that love him".

Please leave it here before you make an even bigger prat of yourself.
Who the hell do you think you’re calling a weirdo you little keyboard warrior. Don’t start mouthing off acting tough hiding behind your fake internet name.

I’m the prat am I?

Or am I the one giving my genuine opinion on something and being open to discussion while you start spouting off abuse and getting mad because someone doesn’t abide by the rules set out in your tiny mind doesn’t.

Do one you muppet.

And don’t stereotype weirdos like that….we all behave differently. Please stop for I am offended by you saying that.
 

redMundo

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You're not giving your "genuine opinions" on anything, lad.

There are thousands out there like you, and you all act the same.
Thousands out there like me? Believe me pal, anyone with half a brain cell can see by your post what a small minded little bigot you are.

As you go through life and have experiences outside of your little bedroom you’ll realise that it’s ok for people to be different from you and to have different opinions, kiddo.

You don’t know me in any way, my feelings, my tastes, my interests, morals, gender, sexuality, height, intelligence or race so you don’t even know what constitutes “me” let alone others “like me”.

Open your mind, build something tangible and worthwhile in your life and you won’t have time for your faux outrage and misguided moral crusades.

I will not be replying to you from this moment as I deem it below someone of my intellect and social skills.

I hope you can learn to grow and become a better person from this valuable lesson.

PS. You can’t quote someone, change nearly every word of their quote, then have an issue with that made up quote you absolute moron.

xxx
 

Tarrou

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I love that the guy who keeps bleating on about faux outrage is getting so outraged by everything people say to him
 

NotThatSoph

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I love that the guy who keeps bleating on about faux outrage is getting so outraged by everything people say to him
Yeah, but it's real outrage. None of this new, modern and inauthentic outrage. Pure distilled essence.
 

DOTA

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The herons are long-legged, long-necked, freshwater and coastal birds in the family Ardeidae, with 64 recognised species, some of which are referred to as egrets or bitterns rather than herons. Members of the genera Botaurus and Ixobrychus are referred to as bitterns, and, together with the zigzag heron, or zigzag bittern, in the monotypic genus Zebrilus, form a monophyletic group within the Ardeidae. Egrets do not form a biologically distinct group from herons, and tend to be named differently because they are mainly white or have decorative plumes in breeding plumage. Herons, by evolutionary adaptation, have long beaks.

The classification of the individual heron/egret species is fraught with difficulty, and no clear consensus exists about the correct placement of many species into either of the two major genera, Ardea and Egretta. Similarly, the relationships of the genera in the family are not completely resolved. However, one species formerly considered to constitute a separate monotypic family, the Cochlearidae or the boat-billed heron, is now regarded as a member of the Ardeidae.


PS. You can’t quote someone, change nearly every word of their quote, then have an issue with that made up quote you absolute moron.

xxx
Come again?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Park is right. It’s an insult to South Korean because there are people in different countries like China, Switzerland, Nigeria and etc also eat dog. Beside, Korean food is one of the best one I had so it’s also an insult to their food culture not just the people.

The world has also changed now so Park is also right that in nowadays environment, stuffs like this can be considered as racist in certain society/community, take a look at Cavani as an example, it’s not racist but he is still banned.
 

JPRouve

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Right or Wrong is not decided by who is on the receiving end. It doesn’t work like that, otherwise guilty/not guilty verdicts would be given by the victims in court cases. All sorts of bias or ulterior motives can affect someone’s perception.

I could choose to be offended by your tone towards me and ask you to be friendlier instead of showing your disdain for my opinion, doesn’t mean my issue is warranted…it means I have an issue (warranted or otherwise).

I’m going to leave it there anyway, I’ve commented on this much more than my interest in the subject deserves.

Park has asked us to stop singing the song, the song doesn’t benefit us, we like Park so makes sense to just drop the chant anyway.
As you clearly stated you could choose to be offended which puts you firmly on the faux-outrage box, you are not offended, you may choose to be and in this case you seemingly chose to be offended by people thinking that a pejorative remark is not good for a song. Also I would like you to clearly point at the part of my post that shows disdain or a none neutral tone.

Right or wrong is different from guilty/not guilty and not guilty doesn't mean innocent either. If you live your life thinking that anything that isn't clearly illegal or punishable by a court of justice is right then you probably has anti-social behaviorss but I suspect that you are full of it and already knows that.

PS: The last sentence of this post is full of disdain.
 

Halftrack

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Right or Wrong is not decided by who is on the receiving end. It doesn’t work like that, otherwise guilty/not guilty verdicts would be given by the victims in court cases. All sorts of bias or ulterior motives can affect someone’s perception.

I could choose to be offended by your tone towards me and ask you to be friendlier instead of showing your disdain for my opinion, doesn’t mean my issue is warranted…it means I have an issue (warranted or otherwise).

I’m going to leave it there anyway, I’ve commented on this much more than my interest in the subject deserves.

Park has asked us to stop singing the song, the song doesn’t benefit us, we like Park so makes sense to just drop the chant anyway.
You're having a mare, and this is a fecking car-crash of a post.

There are of course exceptions (mostly bigots, insulting them is cool and good), but by and large, people decide themselves what they're willing to put up with. If you refer to someone in a way that they find offensive, then it's wrong, and it's wrong because they don't want to be referred to in that manner. So yes, the one on the receiving end is, in fact, the one who decides what is right and what is wrong.
 

redMundo

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You're having a mare, and this is a fecking car-crash of a post.

There are of course exceptions (mostly bigots, insulting them is cool and good), but by and large, people decide themselves what they're willing to put up with. If you refer to someone in a way that they find offensive, then it's wrong, and it's wrong because they don't want to be referred to in that manner. So yes, the one on the receiving end is, in fact, the one who decides what is right and what is wrong.
Mate, what are you going on about? Haha.

You’ve got an issue about something I haven’t even said.

Park was not referred to as anything and I didn’t refer to anyone as anything.
I was referred to as a prat and a weirdo by ironically, an online weirdo prat.
By your reasoning, as the victim I’m right to claim he was wrong.
By your reasoning I was also within my rights to refer to that bigot as a “muppet”.
Do I fit your criteria or do I not deserve the same level of respect because we have a different opinion?

Your post is the car crash, educate yourself on understanding literature and invest in a dictionary before attacking someone.

It’s not my fault that you’re incapable of mature independent thinking. Discuss what I’ve said, no problem with that. But you’re outraged at what you want me to be in your imagination.

I don’t know who’s hurt you but it wasn’t me.
I hope you are ok but it’s in your mind that I’m associated with whoever made you this way.

Take your pack mentality blood-thirsting somewhere else big man.

I don’t have the post privileges to fully reply to you or the rest of the lynch mob.
I lack the desire sit in your kangaroo court.
Therefore I’m not engaging any more in this discussion.

You lot need to calm down and take a deep breath.

Enjoy yelling into the void everybody.
 
Last edited:

MUFC OK

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South Korea is massively pushing the "Korean Wave" with the aim of becoming a global exporter of culture, particularly in the west. K-pop, arts and film - see the hugely popular "Parasite" and very recently "Squid Game", the Oxford Dictionary literally added 20 Korean words 3 days ago. Make no mistake the wheels of the Korean Wave are firmly in motion.

So imo it's not hard to see why this has been raised now - a widely held but extremely negative stereotype in the west and definitely doesn't help the cutural image they are trying to push. How prevalent it actually is in the modern day is hard to say - I think I read a study that the majority of young people are against/dont consume dog meat at least.

My point is that I see this as a little more political than first meets the eye, but again, just my opinion.
 

redMundo

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South Korea is massively pushing the "Korean Wave" with the aim of becoming a global exporter of culture, particularly in the west. K-pop, arts and film - see the hugely popular "Parasite" and very recently "Squid Game", the Oxford Dictionary literally added 20 Korean words 3 days ago. Make no mistake the wheels of the Korean Wave are firmly in motion.

So imo it's not hard to see why this has been raised now - a widely held but extremely negative stereotype in the west and definitely doesn't help the cutural image they are trying to push. How prevalent it actually is in the modern day is hard to say - I think I read a study that the majority of young people are against/dont consume dog meat at least.

My point is that I see this as a little more political than first meets the eye, but again, just my opinion.
Good post.

Thanks for explaining a few things I didn’t know/understand about Korean culture and political movements.

So do Parks views fit in with the younger generations standpoint on consuming dog meat?

Or

Is Park now out of touch with “regular” Koreans due to being a celeb and Westernised after living here so long?

I wouldn’t eat dog meat myself but always found it confusing in the western world how we just decide that eating some animals is terribly evil while eating others is perfectly fine