Passing - Players or bad coaching

[tjb]

There's absolutely no way on this Earth you can coach players to 'pass better' once they get into their 20s as professional footballers.

What most posters will never appreciate is that it's all about levels. They don't understand just how fast the game is played at League Two level.....let alone Premier League level. It's all about the speed at which the player can receive the ball, turn and play a forward pass. ANY professional footballer can play raking 60 yard passes if given the time to do so and most PL standard players could hold their own in a top team solely by passing the ball backwards and sideways

The really good players who stand out at any level are the one's who receive the ball on the half-turn and move it forward at pace between the lines. When you're 'treading water' at the level you're playing, whatever it might be, you're mainly going to be passing the ball sideways, backwards or hoofing it clear....because your technique, vision, balance, speed of thought....isn't up to the speed that the game is being played at

I was never close to becoming a professional footballer but I was probably one of the best in my age group at school, I trained with a PL team for about 3/4 months when I was about 12, have dabbled with semi-pro football as I've got older etc....point is, I've played with some really, really technically good players who can knock the ball around for fun and seemingly put a pass on a sixpence/pick out the top corner every time at a decent level. A few lads I've played with have turned out the odd time for football league clubs/conference teams but the reason they never really made it as pro's is because they can't do all of that at the SPEED required. Give them time and they look untouchable, you wonder how they never made it. Put them into the hurly burly of an elite football match and they flounder like most of us mere mortals playing with our mates in Sunday League!!

Best post of the thread. It would be one thing if ole were the first manager to have this group of players but I do not understand how some of our fans can look at this team play and think that the manager is the cause of their inability to pass the ball. We just have a situation where the players starting in our central positions are not that great at the technical side of the game. Most teams can afford to have that one players be their ball winner, yet at utd, we have a situation where both our 8 and no. 10 also have poor anticipation, poor first touch, poor off the ball movement, lack balance and average passing technique.

 

[The Red Thinker]

Since we’re on the topic of passing. I think our passing from the back has improved remarkably. We hoof it far less and our players are trying More often than not to pass it from the back.

Our midfield to attack link uphas been poor. Why? Because we don’t have elite ball players. Or even efficient forward thinking ball players.

Fred - recovers and recycles well. But that’s it.

Matic - same

McTominay - can make the forward pass often but has been injured too often

Perriera- inconsistent and drifts wide too often or is deployed as such.

we need more players simple as to link defence and attack. When that happens. We will look very good more often than not.

 

[Van Piorsing]

You let Herrera go then Pogba is about to leave while you give Lingard and Pereira chances almost every match.

It's just asking for overall quality of football to sink below acceptable levels, not just passing aspect.

 

[tjb]

Since we’re on the topic of passing. I think our passing from the back has improved remarkably. We hoof it far less and our players are trying More often than not to pass it from the back.

Our midfield to attack link uphas been poor. Why? Because we don’t have elite ball players. Or even efficient forward thinking ball players.

Fred - recovers and recycles well. But that’s it.

Matic - same

McTominay - can make the forward pass often but has been injured too often

Perriera- inconsistent and drifts wide too often or is deployed as such.

we need more players simple as to link defence and attack. When that happens. We will look very good more often than not.

The way our team is set up with Martial Rashford and James/Greenwood exclusively being attackers, we need our midfield to step up and provide the link between the midfield and attack, particularly the attacking midfielder. As you mentioned, none of our midfielders have proven or have even proven to have the capacity to do this consistently aside from Pogba, who also comes with his own deficiencies. We need to have better passers in midfield.

 

[Maticmaker]

We often hear TV pundits/commentators talk about players having 'a picture in their mind' in other words they see what they are going to do before they do it, especially in terms of passing. I am not sure how valid this statement is, but it does seem as though the better/more consistent passers of the ball do have some 'early warning' system, like a built in radar. Maybe its all about positioning, i.e. putting themselves in a position to take action. We all remember how Paul Scholes was famous for creating space for himself, sometimes by just standing still. This ability was surely something involving the foresight to see the pictures in his mind.

If all this is true, then its must be down to players themselves, initially, if they can do this sort of thing naturally then coaching could help them excel at it, but if you don't have the ability in the first place, its debatable whether it can be coached.

 

[momo83]

Apart from the first half vs City, every game I watch of United I end up complaining about how bad we are at passing the ball. Generally speaking these symptoms happen nearly every game;

• Too many touches .- Players taking 3/4/5 touches only to make a pass they should have made with their second touch. Maguire is one of the biggest culprits of this.
• Momentum Killing - This happens when we put together 3 or 4 passes and then on he 5th, the ball goes all the way back so we have to start again. What makes this bad is theres usually an open pass forward that gets ignored. A Jesse Lingard special.
• Lacking Direction/Power - This is when a player who is on the ball makes a pass to a teammate that forces them to either change direction or wait for the ball because it's not in their path. I feel our players don't care how the receiver gets the ball as long as it gets there. This ties to the momentum killing point above. Luke Shaw loves this.

Now the question I have is, is this because the players are not good enough or because they are badly coached. Im leaning towards the coach because I have seen teams worse than us pass and move with much more purpose than us. Whats the Cafe opinion?

To be fair United have been crap at passing even under SAF but was only obvious when we played top European teams. Only time we stood out for great passing even against elite teams was 99

 

[Bobcat]

You don't need to teach them to pass better. You can create a system and coach players to move into spaces so that they always have available passing options. Coaching at United is simply terrible in doing anything that covers for the deficiencies of the players ever since Fergie retired. There are teams with far less quality that looks to keep the ball and pass between each other better. Yes we have deficiencies, but coaching isn't helping improving them either.

Come on. Players are not idiots/robots. Anyone who has ever kicked a ball knows that you have a better chance of reviving the ball if you are in space. Ole was never the fastest or most technical proficient player , but his movement was incredibly good. Carrick was a world class CM in his day and a world class passer of the ball. If it was just a case of communicating how players should move/pass, dont you think these two would know how to? Jose has several league tittles under his belt, same with LvG. I am pretty sure they know a thing or two about coaching as well.

Do you think midfield sloggers like Mark Noble and Mark Duffy could suddenly turn into Iniesta/Xavi/Scholes if they had the right coach to teach them how? Or donkeys like Anichebe or Benteke suddenly turn into Del Piero if someone told them to just move better? Of course coaching matters and of course a good coach can make a big impact on how a team passes and moves, but its not a simple as "just move into space". If it was that easy to break down defenses then football matches would have handball scores

I (fondly) remember the "Slow motion Zombie passing" thread we had during 2012/2013. Take a look at the squad we had then and compare it to the one we have today. If you combined Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Jose, Cuyff, Sacchi, Michels and Trappatoni into one manager they still would not be able to coach Oldham into CL champions, because player quality matters

 

[el3mel]

Come on. Players are not idiots/robots. Anyone who has ever kicked a ball knows that you have a better chance of reviving the ball if you are in space. Ole was never the fastest or most technical proficient player , but his movement was incredibly good. Carrick was a world class CM in his day and a world class passer of the ball. If it was just a case of communicating how players should move/pass, dont you think these two would know how to? Jose has several league tittles under his belt, same with LvG. I am pretty sure they know a thing or two about coaching as well.

Do you think midfield sloggers like Mark Noble and Mark Duffy could suddenly turn into Iniesta/Xavi/Scholes if they had the right coach to teach them how? Or donkeys like Anichebe or Benteke suddenly turn into Del Piero if someone told them to just move better? Of course coaching matters and of course a good coach can make a big impact on how a team passes and moves, but its not a simple as "just move into space". If it was that easy to break down defenses then football matches would have handball scores

I (fondly) remember the "Slow motion Zombie passing" thread we had during 2012/2013. Take a look at the squad we had then and compare it to the one we have today. If you combined Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Jose, Cuyff, Sacchi, Michels and Trappatoni into one manager they still would not be able to coach Oldham into CL champions, because player quality matters

Someone said if you are good at something you don't necessarily mean you can learn it. Of course, Fred and Pereira won't turn to Xavi and Inesita by coaching, but several managers can do tactical tweaks that cover the deficiencies of their team to make it look bigger than the sum of its parts. Mourinho doesn't really care about passing accuracy as he's fine setting back and depending on counters and long balls while not caring about possession, while LvG cared more about keeping the ball in between defenders to decrease number of shots.

Our players are pretty static and barely move into space or creating passing options for each other. Each one I standing there waiting for the ball to reach. It adds more problems in addition to our players being poor in general. I'm sure coaching stuff can do regarding improving the overall movement and link in between players so that each one has more passing options, which will ultimately soften the lack of quality problem a little bit. Our players are of poor quality but they aren't garbage as well. I will say most of them are about average, so coaching can do things to improve the problem imo.

 

[Bobcat]

Someone said if you are good at something you don't necessarily mean you can learn it. Of course, Fred and Pereira won't turn to Xavi and Inesita by coaching, but several managers can do tactical tweaks that cover the deficiencies of their team to make it look bigger than the sum of its parts. Mourinho doesn't really care about passing accuracy as he's fine setting back and depending on counters and long balls while not caring about possession, while LvG cared more about keeping the ball in between defenders to decrease number of shots.

Our players are pretty static and barely move into space or creating passing options for each other. Each one I standing there waiting for the ball to reach. It adds more problems in addition to our players being poor in general. I'm sure coaching stuff can do regarding improving the overall movement and link in between players so that each one has more passing options, which will ultimately soften the lack of quality problem a little bit. Our players are of poor quality but they aren't garbage as well. I will say most of them are about average, so coaching can do things to improve the problem imo.

Right, but i guess you have just as much coaching experience as (almost) everyone else on the Caf which is zero. We have(had) coaches that have played football on the highest level and have done their coaching badges.

And this is not specified at you, but i just find it incredibly arrogant that laymen on here can stamp someone as clueless when they dont know a thing about the actual job they are doing. Its a bit like anti-vaxxers who argue with doctors because they read some shit on alienrectum.com and saw a youtube video and then conclude that every doctor in the world is clueless.

Fergie did not get booked as a speaker by Harvard, Stanford, PWC, Ernst & Young and Accenture to talk about offside traps and 1-2 passes. Pep and Klopp are not the best managers in the game because they have figured out some magic football formula that no one else can see. They are the best because they are the best leaders and have the best squads. They have playing staff that work their fecking arses off, but also are the best at their jobs. Combine those two and you see incredible passing and incredible football

Our passing (or our general play) did not suddenly turn to shit this year. It went to shit 6,5 years ago. But Lindgard, Fred and Pereira have not been pulling up trees under another manager so we dont really have any grounds of comparison. And no. Ole et.al is probably not a world class coaching team. Believing so is wishful thinking imo.

Still though, if all the "experts" on Redcafe was in charge of the sessions on Carrington or was sat in the dugout at OT they would look a lot more clueless than our current coaching team

 

[el3mel]

Right, but i guess you have just as much coaching experience as (almost) everyone else on the Caf which is zero. We have(had) coaches that have played football on the highest level and have done their coaching badges.

And this is not specified at you, but i just find it incredibly arrogant that laymen on here can stamp someone as clueless when they dont know a thing about the actual job they are doing. Its a bit like anti-vaxxers who argue with doctors because they read some shit on alienrectum.com and saw a youtube video and then conclude that every doctor in the world is clueless.

Fergie did not get booked as a speaker by Harvard, Stanford, PWC, Ernst & Young and Accenture to talk about offside traps and 1-2 passes. Pep and Klopp are not the best managers in the game because they have figured out some magic football formula that no one else can see. They are the best because they are the best leaders and have the best squads. They have playing staff that work their fecking arses off, but also are the best at their jobs. Combine those two and you see incredible passing and incredible football

Our passing (or our general play) did not suddenly turn to shit this year. It went to shit 6,5 years ago. But Lindgard, Fred and Pereira have not been pulling up trees under another manager so we dont really have any grounds of comparison. And no. Ole et.al is probably not a world class coaching team. Believing so is wishful thinking imo.

Still though, if all the "experts" on Redcafe was in charge of the sessions on Carrington or was sat in the dugout at OT they would look a lot more clueless than our current coaching team

Well I didn't go deep into analysis or said what or how training sessions should be done to improve such things because you're right, I have zero experience in this field, however what I know is there are many teams who don't have much quality but tend to do well and pass well in midfield, which indicates that proper coaching can cover for deficiencies. We see many teams that have loads of quality but underperform massively and others who aren't that great but tend to punch above their weight which indicates coaching has a big effect in making the team looking bigger or smaller then the sum of its parts. That's without going into any details or deep analysis as we're not coaches for sure, no one said or claimed otherwise.

 

[Andersonson]

This is what happens when you got a midfield containg Andreas and Fred.
Fred never passes infront of players, he plays it directly on to the feet of his teammates. Bit awkward to watch really.

Hopefully Bruno will make us a bit better in terms of passing. It also helps alot when Scott is playing instead of either Fred or Andreas.

 

[UnitedChampionsAgain]

It's down to the players in my opinion. It's a struggle for any of them to hit an accurate forward pass in the final third, leading to endless safe sideways passes going nowhere. Not even talking about intricate passes, just basic five/ten yard stuff which should lead to a lot more goals and points. Its been a frustrating watch to say the least over the last few years.

 

[Amerifan]

There's absolutely no way on this Earth you can coach players to 'pass better' once they get into their 20s as professional footballers.

What most posters will never appreciate is that it's all about levels. They don't understand just how fast the game is played at League Two level.....let alone Premier League level. It's all about the speed at which the player can receive the ball, turn and play a forward pass. ANY professional footballer can play raking 60 yard passes if given the time to do so and most PL standard players could hold their own in a top team solely by passing the ball backwards and sideways

The really good players who stand out at any level are the one's who receive the ball on the half-turn and move it forward at pace between the lines. When you're 'treading water' at the level you're playing, whatever it might be, you're mainly going to be passing the ball sideways, backwards or hoofing it clear....because your technique, vision, balance, speed of thought....isn't up to the speed that the game is being played at

I was never close to becoming a professional footballer but I was probably one of the best in my age group at school, I trained with a PL team for about 3/4 months when I was about 12, have dabbled with semi-pro football as I've got older etc....point is, I've played with some really, really technically good players who can knock the ball around for fun and seemingly put a pass on a sixpence/pick out the top corner every time at a decent level. A few lads I've played with have turned out the odd time for football league clubs/conference teams but the reason they never really made it as pro's is because they can't do all of that at the SPEED required. Give them time and they look untouchable, you wonder how they never made it. Put them into the hurly burly of an elite football match and they flounder like most of us mere mortals playing with our mates in Sunday League!!

Oh boy. Someone injecting relevant experience and useful knowledge into a thread. This won’t end well.

 

[VictoriaRed]

Wasn’t Phelan running the sessions under Ferguson? Let’s be honest, the quality just isn’t what we had before.

 

[Bobcat]

Well I didn't go deep into analysis or said what or how training sessions should be done to improve such things because you're right, I have zero experience in this field, however what I know is there are many teams who don't have much quality but tend to do well and pass well in midfield, which indicates that proper coaching can cover for deficiencies. We see many teams that have loads of quality but underperform massively and others who aren't that great but tend to punch above their weight which indicates coaching has a big effect in making the team looking bigger or smaller then the sum of its parts. That's without going into any details or deep analysis as we're not coaches for sure, no one said or claimed otherwise.

Of course. But i to that i would say three things
1. Our passing is not that bad. We are 6th in passes completed and 5th in goals scored in the league. We have been utterly rotten at times this year, but those problems go well beyond just poor passing and movement
2. Our midfield without Pogba is painfully mediocre and even more so when considering the other injuries. Credit to Fred who went from a pub player to a competent PL midfielder this year and Scott who has passion in abundance but neither of those two are top class CM's
3. The formation we play is very dependent on a quality #10 to link the midfield with the attack, and we have none. We cant really play 433 either with Pogba/McTommniay out.

When you see the best passing teams they always have loads of technically proficient players in every area. Take Pep teams as an example. Its pretty well known what type of coaching Pep favors, but you also have to keep in mind what type of players that are in those teams. Also i dont really know who these lower teams are who supposedly are playing such brilliant football? Those matches i've seen this year between midtable/lower table sides have been pretty rough affairs usually.

 

[R'hllor]

Quality can be discussed when you try to do something and not when you look clueless at playing football as a team.

 

[HoustonRed]

It appears to be bit of both. Bottom line is the passing-play is crap. The players look at the coach for blame, while the manager looks to the players to blame (while quite not stating as such). This is apparent by the amount of lifeline given to either of them. If it was one way or the other, the issue would have been fixed long before. Currently the board seems to have taken the side of the manager so as to fix the other issue, while keeping in mind that the coaching shall be fixed when we have a core group of players that can pass a bit.

 

[Pughnichi]

I think the problem is with the formation. We play 4231 when we don’t have a good number 10 and our midfield is at its weakest it’s been for a long time.

we simply aren’t good enough currently to have two midfielders being pressed when for eg Matic takes 3 touches to control the ball and make a decision where he’s going to pass next. We struggle then to move the ball forward and bring the No10 into play so it invariably goes out to the sides and back to the CBS.

Our best football in recent times has been played using 433 with one designated DMC, one box to box and one midfielder licensed to get forward.

For me, and to get the best out of him a’la Juventus days, Pogba should be used as the more attacking midfielder, Fred box to box because he’s great on the turn and has the stamina to do so with McT sitting deep and keeping it simple.

Only a slight tinker really but imo would make such a huge difference to our ability to move the ball forward and pass through the lines into more dangerous area and subsequently bring our three attackers into play more affording them more space/opportunities

Be gone with you 4231!

 

[Stig]

People have been saying coaching, but at 7 you learn "pass and go" or "run off the ball" and yet Mata seems to be one of the only ones who actually does this. They are professional footballers in the Premier League - they know what to do. I think it is apathy, which prevents them from doing what is in reality, the absolute basics, which is lack of motivation which unfortunately comes from the manager.

 

[dove]

Depends. For example Fred, I think he is a really bad passer. But in general a lot depends on coaching/tactical setup. We never create advantages, we are very static, generally look clueless so finding a good option to pass is very difficult.

 

[Greck]

People have been saying coaching, but at 7 you learn "pass and go" or "run off the ball" and yet Mata seems to be one of the only ones who actually does this. They are professional footballers in the Premier League - they know what to do. I think it is apathy, which prevents them from doing what is in reality, the absolute basics, which is lack of motivation which unfortunately comes from the manager.

Although players know these concepts they don't have a telepathic connection with each other and need to have it drilled in training to have it translate on match day. In the absence of a consciously coordinated coaching many attacks will suffer. Just take a look at how Spurs now play under Jose. The plan they once played with under Poch has totally evaporated and they play more and more like strangers every week.

 

[Foxbatt]

I know this is about passing but let's look at the Palace goal. It's well practiced and well worked out. Why can't we try something like that?

 

[MikeKing]

One thing that plays a part, which is something I've always liked about Dortmund is the unselfishness instilled in their players. A good example of this is seen in how they always seem to prefer the easy assist for the tap in instead of trying to score for themselves. It helps them to be more effective in front of goal. It is something I believe is learned in training, those decisions get hammered in to them by training specific patterns of play around the box. It is something we should look to emulate, especially because we have a similar style of football with our quick counter attacks.

As for our general lack of tempo in passing, we've had problems with personnel under Van Gaal too which made us lethargic. That continued under Mourinho, and it became clear his primary focus wasn't to change it but rather force the team to win games deploying every other tactic.

Under Ole we're not exactly lethargic anymore but still risk averse and uncertain on the ball. I do think we're seeing an improvement and I doubt these coaches except complacency, lack of speed and effort anymore. That's why culprits such as Shaw and Matic doesn't seem to be in our plans. We need better passers and more technical players to really evolve with this style, there is no doubt about that. The best way to judge improvement here is on the players like Fred and McTominay who both have developed to now contribute to a much quicker midfield. They aren't perfect and they have their issues but these two guys weren't even playing at the start of the season before this, and yet we have better tempo in midfield than last year.

 

[Im red2]

our coaching is amateur

 

[Bwuk]

There's absolutely no way on this Earth you can coach players to 'pass better' once they get into their 20s as professional footballers.

What most posters will never appreciate is that it's all about levels. They don't understand just how fast the game is played at League Two level.....let alone Premier League level. It's all about the speed at which the player can receive the ball, turn and play a forward pass. ANY professional footballer can play raking 60 yard passes if given the time to do so and most PL standard players could hold their own in a top team solely by passing the ball backwards and sideways

The really good players who stand out at any level are the one's who receive the ball on the half-turn and move it forward at pace between the lines. When you're 'treading water' at the level you're playing, whatever it might be, you're mainly going to be passing the ball sideways, backwards or hoofing it clear....because your technique, vision, balance, speed of thought....isn't up to the speed that the game is being played at

I was never close to becoming a professional footballer but I was probably one of the best in my age group at school, I trained with a PL team for about 3/4 months when I was about 12, have dabbled with semi-pro football as I've got older etc....point is, I've played with some really, really technically good players who can knock the ball around for fun and seemingly put a pass on a sixpence/pick out the top corner every time at a decent level. A few lads I've played with have turned out the odd time for football league clubs/conference teams but the reason they never really made it as pro's is because they can't do all of that at the SPEED required. Give them time and they look untouchable, you wonder how they never made it. Put them into the hurly burly of an elite football match and they flounder like most of us mere mortals playing with our mates in Sunday League!!

Spot on. Great post.

 

[Wolfmother]

Spot on. Great post.

Not at all. It should be the least you would expect as a fan about football. He is dead right, and having what seams a majority not getting this just show how low we have dropped standards. Fans used to seek knowledge. But if you dont understand this!? I dont know what to say.. Better not being one of the loudest on a football forum me thinks.

 

[bondsname]

Passing ability doesn't come naturally. Obviously you need to spend hours practicing your precision, also the amount of weight of the ball you need to successfully pass the ball consistently. A good passer must also be confident in his ability. Vision and awarness is also two very important traits in a world class passer. That is purely down to the player.

However the coaching is equally important because the system that is applied is what gives you passing options in the first place. Imagine if you are a fantastic passer, but none of your teammates show eagerness to get the ball, and there is absolutely no movement, your passing ability is then pretty much useless.


I think Ole has a pretty decent system in place, we just lack quality to play like he wants. The players either lack the ability to pass the ball, or they doubt themselves too much to pick out a player running behind the opposition defensive line.

When Pogba came back before injuring himself again, he instantly starting pulling of amazing passes. Same thing with Mata. That leads me to believe that Ole has a good system in place but just lacks the quality.

 

[reds_fan_aus]

A good passing team is down to tactics. It is very simple. If you are in possession - you need options to pass to. Which basically means your teammates should be working off the ball to provide an option. Clearly this isn't happening at the moment. For all the criticism Matic receives on this site he is very good on the ball and when provided with options whether short or long he is very good at disposal. This current squad seems to lack imagination as to what to do in transition particularily after the second or third pass. This lack of penetration is unfortunarely down to lack of tactic or strategy - which should be practised drilled and rehearsed. That comes from the Coaching team. Either the message is too confusing or you have a bunch of players who are not good enough.
or to lazy to do the required work off the ball. Sadly I feel its the latter.

 

[NewGlory]

There's absolutely no way on this Earth you can coach players to 'pass better' once they get into their 20s as professional footballers.

What most posters will never appreciate is that it's all about levels. They don't understand just how fast the game is played at League Two level.....let alone Premier League level. It's all about the speed at which the player can receive the ball, turn and play a forward pass. ANY professional footballer can play raking 60 yard passes if given the time to do so and most PL standard players could hold their own in a top team solely by passing the ball backwards and sideways

The really good players who stand out at any level are the one's who receive the ball on the half-turn and move it forward at pace between the lines. When you're 'treading water' at the level you're playing, whatever it might be, you're mainly going to be passing the ball sideways, backwards or hoofing it clear....because your technique, vision, balance, speed of thought....isn't up to the speed that the game is being played at

I was never close to becoming a professional footballer but I was probably one of the best in my age group at school, I trained with a PL team for about 3/4 months when I was about 12, have dabbled with semi-pro football as I've got older etc....point is, I've played with some really, really technically good players who can knock the ball around for fun and seemingly put a pass on a sixpence/pick out the top corner every time at a decent level. A few lads I've played with have turned out the odd time for football league clubs/conference teams but the reason they never really made it as pro's is because they can't do all of that at the SPEED required. Give them time and they look untouchable, you wonder how they never made it. Put them into the hurly burly of an elite football match and they flounder like most of us mere mortals playing with our mates in Sunday League!!

A lot of what you are saying is spot on. I think there is, however more to it:

1. Once you are able to make precise passes at speed, you still need to maintain that ability, through continued training. An Olympic sharp shooter that doesn't train will lose form, same is true for footballers. I wonder if our players spend enough time on certain skills.

2. Players who have played for Pep and Klopp all say that they understand the system so well, and they are drilled so well that they don't need to guess what their partners are going to do or where they will be next – they know without looking. Even if it isn't literal "pass better" coaching - don't you think that improves passing?

Pep has said in many interviews this thing that seems to be your main point, as well – if a player isn't good enough there is nothing a coach can do. But I would add that with good players - there is still a lot a coach and manager can do. I think there is a lot our coaches and manager can do as well. I hope why it's inconsistent so far is that it is a matter of time. Things take more time than people realize.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is also our lack of movement that is the issue. Players need to practice on their movements on the training ground. Gary Neville describes how Quiroz planned the match against Barcelona in the CL semis. He said they practiced without the ball. Just the movements. I think once he left our technical abilities started going down. Why we won was just sheer will power of SAF and the players individually. I do not think Mike Phelan is capable of helping Ole. If he had someone like Quiroz it would have been different.

 

[::sonny::]

Lacking Direction/Power

this is the biggest issue

the problem is the lack of technical ability, there’s no United player with some skill in that sense (only pogba and mata)

the level is really low, and I truly think that the level of our passing is about a league one, league two

 

[thepolice123]

Need a gif of our passage of play before the Matic sending off.

We literally passed ourselves to death there.

@GifLord

 

[GifLord]

Need a gif of our passage of play before the Matic sending off.

We literally passed ourselves to death there.

@GifLord

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It is not the passing, it is the movement and positioning. We have a couple of players who are technically poor or at least inconsistent who will often play passes behind the intended target but they are outliers.

The issue we have is that our players are too static which results in passing options being very limited when we are on the ball, usually in any passage of play we will have one passing option (often a backwards pass) who isn't being covered which is a big part of why we are so predictable and struggle to break teams down. A lot of our play breaks down when we are forced to play the ball to a player who is being well covered, we actually have quite a lot of players who have a good first touch so we occasionally retain possession when we have no right to but the move rarely goes anywhere for obvious reasons.

This is a coaching issue, as is the fact that we regularly have 4 players pressing and the rest of the team dropping deep making it incredibly easy to bypass our midfield.

The quality of player in our team especially when at full strength is better than Wolves, Sheffield and I would say Leicester but they regularly perform better than us and I think the above two tactical issues are a major reason why.

 

[SAFMUTD]

This is the perfect example, of course for the quality pass you need quality players, if you had bad players you'll struggle to find that one pass that breaks the defence but thats only the last pass of the play before that most of the build up of the play is not succesfull due to quality passing but because of quality movements, and thats up to coaching.

A good managers coaches his players into movement so the spaces are open and the quality pass has more chance to be succesfull, in that video the lack of coaching is exposed. The movement is dreadful, every player is static they just pass the ball from side to side generating nothing, watch all our players when theyre not on the ball they just stand still.

Our main problem is lack of coaching, more than lack of quality in the final pass.

 

[thepolice123]

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Players terrified of receiving the ball in between the lines.

 

[DownRiver]

The first few games post-lockdown, we had great exchanges of swift and accurate passing. The contrast to the current standard of passing is extraordinary.

Nevermind how awful we are whilst being pressed in our own half, we are awful will simple passes. Somehow I am more frustrated in games now than the past 6 years of football after watching the past couple of matches.

Thinking about why I feel infuriated, it's not because of what the context of the game means, but the ball retention is so poor from Fernandes, Matic, AWB and now Rashford. Silly flicks and inaccurate passes in unpressurised situations seem the norm rather than the exception.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

So, does fans still think the coaching is good enough?
And the problems are the players?

Then again, there's the excuse 'fatigue' card, and poor 'squad depth' supporting card.

 

[Santoryo]

Meltdowns everywhere.

 

[He'sRaldo]

So, does fans still think the coaching is good enough?
And the problems are the players?

Then again, there's the excuse 'fatigue' card, and poor 'squad depth' supporting card.

There's no point, some just don't see it until the bitter end.