Patrick Dorgu | 2024/25 Performances

His technical ceiling is so low that I can't really see what the long term future is for him at the club (if we want to get back challenging for titles, that is).

He seems to be at his most effective if we're defending deeper and he's an offensive outlet with his pace and power, which we saw quite a lot in the first half. But then the corollary of that is that his crossing, passing and shooting is so poor that I never feel remotely confident when he gets himself into good attacking positions. I don't think he's gotten any goals or assists since he joined the club. (Yes, I know he put a sitter on a plate for Garnacho last night but that was a rare exception!)

And as for using him when playing out from the back, yeesh.... disaster waiting to happen.
 
Most hot and cold performance I've seen this season. Fred levels. Looks good though, and hopefully keeps improving.
 
I feel the amount he’s seemingly involved in everything has me cautiously optimistic that these tactics can work, but also sadly means I have quite a thorough appreciation of just how average he is by now.
 
He has enough in his locker to be great for us if we can perfect this system.

The better the system, the more simplified his role will become.
 
Mockney said:
I feel the amount he’s seemingly involved in everything has me cautiously optimistic that these tactics can work, but also sadly means I have quite a thorough appreciation of just how average he is by now.
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It just highlights the responsibility he has. It’s clear that it’s not enough for him to just eventually become an ‘okay’ player. Everything offensively is on him, it helps for this player to have real talent. We cannot set up to isolate Patrick Dorgu again and again as our main mode of attack, he is nowhere near the level to justify such a responsibility yet that seems to be how out game goes. The role is so heavily weighted that he is holding back the potential of the team. We cannot have this role as one of our ‘not everyone needs to be world class’ when he’s the one who has to always put the final ball in, lead the transition and the player isolated in the final third.

If Dorgu was amongst our most talented players we’d be two levels up as a team. The fact that he’s amongst our least means that there will be games we need to try and win in spite of him fecking a lot up.
 
Rozay said:
It just highlights the responsibility he has. It’s clear that it’s not enough for him to just eventually become an ‘okay’ player. Everything offensively is on him, it helps for this player to have real talent. We cannot set up to isolate Patrick Dorgu again and again as our main mode of attack, he is nowhere near the level to justify such a responsibility yet that seems to be how out game goes. The role is so heavily weighted that he is holding back the potential of the team. We cannot have this role as one of our ‘not everyone needs to be world class’ when he’s the one who has to always put the final ball in, lead the transition and the player isolated in the final third.

If Dorgu was amongst our most talented players we’d be two levels up as a team. The fact that he’s amongst our least means that there will be games we need to try and win in spite of him fecking a lot up.
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That's just bollocks he should have had an assist yesterday and that's been the case in most games he's played. There's no doubting he's sloppy with his passing and he needs to improve his decision making but it's the attackers he's playing into holding us back because he's doing his job in creating chances. I can forgive a bit of sloppy play if he's creating chances, wingers do occasionally lose the ball.

I've said the same about our other fullbacks as well, they get so much shit but it's because we barely have a striker. Add in let's say Osimhen to this team and they'd all have several more assists and that would heavily weigh opinions.

I've no concern with Dorgu he seems a smart enough lad as he's taken to what Amorim wants him to do. He'll tidy up his play in time, it's what we get for signing young again.
 
If De Ligt is back fit for the Spurs game (to have De Ligt, Maguire, Yoro), I would't mind playing Luke Shaw in the LWB position against Spurs and Johnson.

Dorgu istiring and he probably doesn't have 90mins in his legs anymore.
 
I thought he was good yesterday to be fair , he has been blowing hot & cold but he was a threat yesterday. Perfect pass to Garnacho as well so should have had an assist.
 
Saw things to be enthused by as well as things that make you worry. Generally just looked his age and also like someone who has been flung into a level of football he’s never experienced in his life. Looks more like a random academy graduate than someone who you spend a small fortune on (relative to his position). If you asked me if we paid money for him or promoted him and I knew nothing about him, I’d think either he was a cheap punt or a graduate we see come through early because of their size and stature.

Hopefully those glimpses on the good side can become more of the whole, and really, he needs time to settle. I can’t imagine the whirlwind his life has become since 2025 began; in August, he was expecting to see out a survival campaign with Lecce with not many eyes on him. Now? He’s got a global audience of billions and an elevated profile that must have been beyond his scope.
 
Smores said:
That's just bollocks he should have had an assist yesterday and that's been the case in most games he's played. There's no doubting he's sloppy with his passing and he needs to improve his decision making but it's the attackers he's playing into holding us back because he's doing his job in creating chances. I can forgive a bit of sloppy play if he's creating chances, wingers do occasionally lose the ball.

I've said the same about our other fullbacks as well, they get so much shit but it's because we barely have a striker. Add in let's say Osimhen to this team and they'd all have several more assists and that would heavily weigh opinions.

I've no concern with Dorgu he seems a smart enough lad as he's taken to what Amorim wants him to do. He'll tidy up his play in time, it's what we get for signing young again.
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I guess there’s nothing else to discuss then.
 
A couple of observations.

1. If you disregard physical stature, do you know who he reminds me of the most? Tyrell Malacia. Fast, combative, spirited, shows for the ball, not a great reader of the defensive game, deficient on the ball. Which kind of makes me wonder if the scouting department is looking for the right attributes.

2. I think this is a little bit a similar situation to Garnacho: A young player with obvious potential and significant strengths, who still have areas that need improvement if he's going to be an effective player overall: Passing, shooting, first touch, technique generally. This is a kind of player you want to have in the squad, but I question if they should be regular first XI starters. They are not really developed enough to fill that role, and the things they need to work on are things that are primarily improved on the training field, not through match exposure. So, keep them, but use them sparingly. The trouble with Garnacho is that he's already an established big name starter, so pushing him to part time duty will inevitably look like demotion, which will affect his confidence, etc etc.
 
Much better than Amass for me.

Dorgu makes alot of mistakes but you can feel him on the pitch whenever he does something negative or positive.

Whenever Amass is on the pitch I only really feel him when he is hugging the touch line.

Reckon Amass will be gone.

Amorim clearly values inverted wingbacks (not inverted fullbacks which is different & easier to find) more so than observing fans - so sees a value in someone like Dorgu improving over time for one of his significant tactics.

I really don't see Frimpong coming in and playing LWB for example - fans don't care because they don't want it, but Amorim does.
 
Quagmaguire said:
Much better than Amass for me.

Dorgu makes alot of mistakes but you can feel him on the pitch whenever he does something negative or positive.

Whenever Amass is on the pitch I only really feel him when he is hugging the touch line.

Reckon Amass will be gone.

Amorim clearly values inverted wingbacks (not inverted fullbacks which is different & easier to find) more so than observing fans - so sees a value in someone like Dorgu improving over time for one of his significant tactics.

I really don't see Frimpong coming in and playing LWB for example - fans don't care because they don't want it, but Amorim does.
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There are some obvious differences between the circumstances if both Amass and Dorgu.

For me, Amass is a clearly more talented footballer. He is also clearly less physically developed. Whether he will ever develop the physical attributes remains to be seen, but it’s certainly no cause for concern that a player who has just turned 18 is not yet physically developed enough.
 
justsomebloke said:
A couple of observations.

1. If you disregard physical stature, do you know who he reminds me of the most? Tyrell Malacia. Fast, combative, spirited, shows for the ball, not a great reader of the defensive game, deficient on the ball. Which kind of makes me wonder if the scouting department is looking for the right attributes.

2. I think this is a little bit a similar situation to Garnacho: A young player with obvious potential and significant strengths, who still have areas that need improvement if he's going to be an effective player overall: Passing, shooting, first touch, technique generally. This is a kind of player you want to have in the squad, but I question if they should be regular first XI starters. They are not really developed enough to fill that role, and the things they need to work on are things that are primarily improved on the training field, not through match exposure. So, keep them, but use them sparingly. The trouble with Garnacho is that he's already an established big name starter, so pushing him to part time duty will inevitably look like demotion, which will affect his confidence, etc etc.
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I think the physical/athletic attributes of Dorgu are being overstated. Not that he is not physically capable enough, but I don’t see him as exceptionally athletic to the point where it needs to be mentioned as often as I see it mentioned. I don’t see him as having the ridiculous combination of speed and strength as Shaw or Valencia in their primes (or Dalot now). He’s not Rashford fast. A young player like Fosu-Mensah when he broke through is a player whose athleticism deserved constant mention. Dorgu doesn’t have an athletic advantage over most of his opponents to me. It’s clearly not a weakness or anything, but it’s just okay, and at a level where he cannot rely upon it to be a top player (like someone like Kyle Walker did) and still needs a lot more work to be good enough.
 
Dorgu had a classic 'Garnacho-style' game, in the sense that most of what he did on the ball was quite poor quality but his movement and willingness to keep going meant he was still our biggest threat and most likely source of a goal. Garnacho has those games regularly and it makes it hard to rate him properly (as seen by how many people are disagreeing in this thread about whether Dorgu had a good or bad game).

He did show signs of a good combination with Amad once the latter came on, which is something both players need. With that in mind it'll be interesting to see if Dorgu starts playing on the right more often again in the last few weeks of the season.
 
Quagmaguire said:
Much better than Amass for me.

Dorgu makes alot of mistakes but you can feel him on the pitch whenever he does something negative or positive.

Whenever Amass is on the pitch I only really feel him when he is hugging the touch line.

Reckon Amass will be gone.

Amorim clearly values inverted wingbacks (not inverted fullbacks which is different & easier to find) more so than observing fans - so sees a value in someone like Dorgu improving over time for one of his significant tactics.

I really don't see Frimpong coming in and playing LWB for example - fans don't care because they don't want it, but Amorim does.
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Are you writing off an 18 year old just after his first few games at top level? I'm glad I don't have your impatience.
 
Quagmaguire said:
Much better than Amass for me.

Dorgu makes alot of mistakes but you can feel him on the pitch whenever he does something negative or positive.

Whenever Amass is on the pitch I only really feel him when he is hugging the touch line.

Reckon Amass will be gone.

Amorim clearly values inverted wingbacks (not inverted fullbacks which is different & easier to find) more so than observing fans - so sees a value in someone like Dorgu improving over time for one of his significant tactics.

I really don't see Frimpong coming in and playing LWB for example - fans don't care because they don't want it, but Amorim does.
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Amass is barely 18, he's clearly highly rated. What do you expect a kid like him to do ffs
 
Watching Dumfries this week, I was reminded of a lot of the criticism he was receiving a few years ago.

Derided for being technically limited, bad in possession, bad in combination play, dubious crossing, etc. But what he had was good attacking runs, box threat, physicality, and a presence at set-pieces as a result of that physicality. All of which meant his value when played as a wingback was the threat he brought as part of the attacking line rather than in deeper positions. And then over time, he has worked hard and improved.

They're quite different players, but I see some similarities with Dorgu in this system. He's clearly very raw and that comes with issues in possession, but (as seen in the first half yesterday) there are also signs of the threat he can provide in advanced positions.

I can't imagine him ever becoming particularly polished technically. But I can imagine him becoming more and more dangerous in terms of off the ball runs, crashing into the box and his final ball, while (hopefully) working to ameliorate his other weaknesses somewhat.
 
Dorgu has pretty much only arrived to Heathrow for 3 months and it's okay to not see it in him but not see it in Amass?

Collyer had made 6 appearances and I know he isn't going to be here in the next 2 transfer windows.

Hopefully Amass proves me wrong and I'd be glad if he does, but I don't see what's so different about not having patience with someone who just turned 20 in October in a completely new country and a new club, training with new team mates arguably to a new role (wingback from fullback).

Amass has been first team training since February 2024. He has only had 3 appearances and has led to goals against us just as much as Dorgu. I have seen more matches of Dorgu but I have even been more impressed in Dorgu's tame ass crosses than Amass's which is supposed to be one of his best assets.

Both defensively and offensively ive seen more of Dorgu than Amass but Dorgu has had plenty more games to show it (which may or may not be also to Amorim seeing something we don't see either)

Hopefully Amass has the rest of the Premier league just for himself to now really get himself known as a good prospect to football rather than just to United fans. I really hope he does it but I'm not sure I'd gamble my money on it just yet.
 
Plenty to work on but plenty to work with.

Like a lot of the others he finds the Europa games easier than Prem. (For obvious reasons)
 
next_number_seven said:
I prefer Amass to Dorgu already.
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I don't understand how people watch the same thing and come to this conclusion

Lots of things for Dorgu to work on mainly his confidence to be honest. But often delivers a bit of class only for team mates to feck up the finish or no attackers getting into the dangerous spots.
 
Weird that he's getting criticism yesterday, thought he was very good apart from the one short pass to Garnacho he underhit. He's only 20, the final ball will improve inevitably both in the quality of delivery and decision making. If anything, I felt yesterday was probably his best performance for us so far in terms of the range of qualities that he showed.
 
JJ12 said:
I don't understand how people watch the same thing and come to this conclusion

Lots of things for Dorgu to work on mainly his confidence to be honest. But often delivers a bit of class only for team mates to feck up the finish or no attackers getting into the dangerous spots.
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Yeah, that's a very weird take. Dorgu has shown some concerning awareness and concentration levels, but also some very good physical ability. With Amass I'm really not sure what he is supposed to be good at.
 
I get mad seeing some of the decisions (maybe decision is not the right word, as he just fecks up basic passes) that he makes but I think I can understand the club’s thinking in going for Dorgu. I think he is raw and makes some very basic errors at times but he should be able to improve in these areas as he becomes used to the pace of the game. Let’s also not forget that he’s just 20 too.
 
Bestie07 said:
I get mad seeing some of the decisions (maybe decision is not the right word, as he just fecks up basic passes) that he makes but I think I can understand the club’s thinking in going for Dorgu. I think he is raw and makes some very basic errors at times but he should be able to improve in these areas as he becomes used to the pace of the game. Let’s also not forget that he’s just 20 too.
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Also, we paid £25m and not £60m or whatever, which is crucial. It's not nothing of course, but it won't ever be a disaster transfer like Antony or Højlund.
 
sullydnl said:
Watching Dumfries this week, I was reminded of a lot of the criticism he was receiving a few years ago.

Derided for being technically limited, bad in possession, bad in combination play, dubious crossing, etc. But what he had was good attacking runs, box threat, physicality, and a presence at set-pieces as a result of that physicality. All of which meant his value when played as a wingback was the threat he brought as part of the attacking line rather than in deeper positions. And then over time, he has worked hard and improved.

They're quite different players, but I see some similarities with Dorgu in this system. He's clearly very raw and that comes with issues in possession, but (as seen in the first half yesterday) there are also signs of the threat he can provide in advanced positions.

I can't imagine him ever becoming particularly polished technically. But I can imagine him becoming more and more dangerous in terms of off the ball runs, crashing into the box and his final ball, while (hopefully) working to ameliorate his other weaknesses somewhat.
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Good post. I think people need to appreciate the situation Dorgu has been thrown into; 20 year old, transferred into a huge club in turmoil mid season, asked to be a consistent starter pretty much from the jump. He's been thrown into the deep end and he's shown signs for me he'll be a good player for us. His ability to find space and his movement are positives and the attacking side can hopefully improve with time.
 
bosnian_red said:
Weird that he's getting criticism yesterday, thought he was very good apart from the one short pass to Garnacho he underhit. He's only 20, the final ball will improve inevitably both in the quality of delivery and decision making. If anything, I felt yesterday was probably his best performance for us so far in terms of the range of qualities that he showed.
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He was good. He's young and raw and will make mistakes, but he's a threat and has great physical attributes and a good sense for attacking, even if his end product isn't there yet.

People need to have a little patience.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, that's a very weird take. Dorgu has shown some concerning awareness and concentration levels, but also some very good physical ability. With Amass I'm really not sure what he is supposed to be good at.
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Football. As opposed to the athletics you listed for Dorgu. If your issue with Amass is his lack of this athleticism, then it’s reasonable to chart development in this area as a boy ages and becomes a full man (or woman, these days).

I think even by the early signs, Amass looks more secure with the ball. If he cannot improve his physicality to a good enough level then it may still be a problem in a fee years, but if he can, the actual footballing foundation is there.
 
He would be a great conventional attacking LB. But as an attacking WB in Amorins system where the WBs are the attacking outlet, not sure. Very good physically but don't think he has the technique or footballing intelligence to really flourish in that system.

Could be useful squad player going forward though and for 25million, nothing wrong with that. But our wingbacks in this system have it be world class going forward for it to really work how we want it and he definitely isn't that.
 
If he can keep making those runs beyond the defensive line it opens up so much space for us

Reminds me of evra in that regard, but poor end product

His touch and technique is off but it doesn’t need to be Roberto Carlos level to be very effective, so let’s see how he settles
 
Rozay said:
Football. As opposed to the athletics you listed for Dorgu. If your issue with Amass is his lack of this athleticism, then it’s reasonable to chart development in this area as a boy ages and becomes a full man (or woman, these days).

I think even by the early signs, Amass looks more secure with the ball. If he cannot improve his physicality to a good enough level then it may still be a problem in a fee years, but if he can, the actual footballing foundation is there.
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I've not seen any standout football qualities from Amass either. He's reasonably secure on the ball, yes, but that's about it. And I'm not sure an 18 year old will develop the sort of speed over the first few yards that is needed to compete at this level - he seems to be lacking that. The point was whether it makes sense to rate Amass higher than Dorgu as they are right now - for me it doesn't.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I've not seen any standout football qualities from Amass either. He's reasonably secure on the ball, yes, but that's about it. And I'm not sure an 18 year old will develop the sort of speed over the first few yards that is needed to compete at this level - he seems to be lacking that. The point was whether it makes sense to rate Amass higher than Dorgu as they are right now - for me it doesn't.
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I think you are understating his assurance on the ball. For one so small and young, he has shown that he can still handle the ball well at PL level against big strong men pressing him. While he will not become a speed demon, he will get stronger and better equipped with resisting pressure from grown men, which will then help the obvious football qualities that you can already identify at this stage when he is physically out of his depth, to become more prominent.

He’s more secure and precise on the ball which is a great foundation for many functions of the role. It enables him to keep it better under pressure, enables him to pass it better, it will help him to cross it better and over time, his superior technical ability will enable him to take more chances (and half chances) himself as they fall to him, as they will in this role.

And despite all of this, he is also not guaranteed to become a top player. He still needs to mould his game in a way that his lack of elite physicality can be masked somewhat. Or he may just not make it due to not having that. But a player like Trent, for example, has made it to the top due to being a very good footballer, even if not a natural athlete.

I’m not even saying Amass is better than Dorgu right now. But I do think he has greater potential because I can at least point to one or two attributes that I think he has a rare gift with, which can then form the foundation of his long road to being a top player. With Dorgu, he has nothing, in my opinion. I keep hearing about his athleticism, he is no Kyle Walker, Alphonso Davies or even Fosu-Mensah when he first broke through. He is clearly more physically gifted than Amass, but not so physically gifted that I can watch him and feel that his road to being a top player can be built upon having elite physical attributes. He’s athletic how Ashley Young was athletic, as opposed to how Antonio Valencia was. If he were a bit faster/stronger - then in spite of his technical inferiority, I may still feel he has greater potential than Amass. But he’s not a player who I look at and feel, particularly in the PL, that he will physically best his winger 9 times out of 10 in the way Kyle Walker could, so his athleticism isn’t even worth discussing as much as I see it being discussed IMO. He’s just athletic enough to not be a PL liability, but beyond that, he doesn’t have the combination of speed and strength that Valencia or Shaw did in their prime that separates them. And then he still needs to get all the other footballing basics up a very long way for them to reach a level where you think ‘he should be at one of the top clubs’.
 
Rozay said:
I think you are understating his assurance on the ball. For one so small and young, he has shown that he can still handle the ball well at PL level against big strong men pressing him. While he will not become a speed demon, he will get stronger and better equipped with resisting pressure from grown men, which will then help the obvious football qualities that you can already identify at this stage when he is physically out of his depth, to become more prominent.

He’s more secure and precise on the ball which is a great foundation for many functions of the role. It enables him to keep it better under pressure, enables him to pass it better, it will help him to cross it better and over time, his superior technical ability will enable him to take more chances (and half chances) himself as they fall to him, as they will in this role.

And despite all of this, he is also not guaranteed to become a top player. He still needs to mould his game in a way that his lack of elite physicality can be masked somewhat. Or he may just not make it due to not having that. But a player like Trent, for example, has made it to the top due to being a very good footballer, even if not a natural athlete.

I’m not even saying Amass is better than Dorgu right now. But I do think he has greater potential because I can at least point to one or two attributes that I think he has a rare gift with, which can then form the foundation of his long road to being a top player. With Dorgu, he has nothing, in my opinion. I keep hearing about his athleticism, he is no Kyle Walker, Alphonso Davies or even Fosu-Mensah when he first broke through. He is clearly more physically gifted than Amass, but not so physically gifted that I can watch him and feel that his road to being a top player can be built upon having elite physical attributes. He’s athletic how Ashley Young was athletic, as opposed to how Antonio Valencia was. If he were a bit faster/stronger - then in spite of his technical inferiority, I may still feel he has greater potential than Amass. But he’s not a player who I look at and feel, particularly in the PL, that he will physically best his winger 9 times out of 10 in the way Kyle Walker could, so his athleticism isn’t even worth discussing as much as I see it being discussed IMO. He’s just athletic enough to not be a PL liability, but beyond that, he doesn’t have the combination of speed and strength that Valencia or Shaw did in their prime that separates them. And then he still needs to get all the other footballing basics up a very long way for them to reach a level where you think ‘he should be at one of the top clubs’.
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Why does he need to beat his winger or their back? Surely, you've seen him getting into dangerous positions and is heavily involved in a lot of our attacking play. Do you see Dumfries taking on players all the time? No, but he is very effective in the system because of Inter's system, and simple one-two's opens up plenty of space that sees him quite frequently on the edge of the opponents penalty box. Not everything has to be aesthetically pleasing to watch, and you're not gonna find a Hakimi or Nuno Mendes in Dorgu. That doesn't mean "he has nothing". He clearly does, or he wouldn't be so involved in our play, and someone Bruno himself uses to link up with often.
 
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