System demands the wingbacks are good at 1v1s which Dorgu is absolutely terrible at
Patrick Dorgu | 2024/25 Performances
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Joined in middle of the season. He’s been doing ok. Considering the situation, it’s more than likely that he will come very good next season.
I’ve said this before in this thread but he’s not the guy we need.
Numerous times first 20 mins he’s one on one vs right back and he’s got nothing. No skills to go round someone.
Yes his engine is good but the talent isn’t there. And never will be
Numerous times first 20 mins he’s one on one vs right back and he’s got nothing. No skills to go round someone.
Yes his engine is good but the talent isn’t there. And never will be
You dont think its because hes about as frustrating as Dalot was at leftback with his passing and crossing, despite getting into good positions?
I’m sorry but how are people thinking he’s a good athlete? He has bang average athleticism for the PL. He’s not particularly quick or agile. He gets up and down the touchline but his pace is not threatening at all. It’s the main reason I think this is an awful signing because we desperately needed a fast and dynamic player at left WB to give us an outlet in attacking positions.
Dalot is still the best athlete at fullback and by a clear distance.
Dalot is still the best athlete at fullback and by a clear distance.
Which is why the system is stupid. Your best dribblers or progressive players are rarely played at fullback!! However based on the profile required; me with zero database access and scouting qualifications.
Get Ait Nouri.
Because in attacking situations where he is having to deliver the ball, as a FB he would more often than not be receiving the ball whilst breaking the line as an overlap.
He will therefore have no one to beat in terms of 1 on 1. And his deliveries would predominantly be byline cut backs, as opposed to crosses from deeper positions that require far greater technical ability and precision, which he lacks.
It's the exact same argument for Dalot and Maz. The only FB we have in the squad who maybe has the technical ability to play the Amorim WB role is Shaw, but he now has neither the legs or stamina to play the role, and can't be relied on from an injury perspective.
He hasn't set the world on fire so far, but I can't help but feel that he's a cooler and more experienced head on his shoulders away from being a very solid player.
As a left back in a back 4 maybe.
As a wing back in a back 5. Not for me Geoff
He seems a solid LB but not a great WB since his weakness is his attacking play.
Ok. You make that sound so absolute but I doN't really see it. Since when shouldn't fullbacks be dangerous in 1on1? And since when are fullbacks or winbacks to one type of delivery?
Don't get me wrong, I am not here to boast up Dorgu but the notion that he would be better as a fullback does seem fabricated to me. I mean, sure, if he could share the challenge of wingplay with another player obviously he'd have an easier life. But thats where the AMs and even the striker comes in - to create those situational overloads. But I guess, we may have very different ideas on how wingbacks should be since I certainly don't think Shaw when this topic comes up. Shaw was a very rounded (no pun intended) fb in the seasons he was good. But I think, he looked at his best when he could push in and not work the wing. He was never really a threat going forward, something the opponents were worried about or for whom they would adjust their defensive order. With that, he falls into the exact same category as Dalot and Maz probably as well - good fullbacks in total (on their good days) but you miss out when you have two of those on the pitch when it comes to creating a threat.
There is a lot to like, and also plenty he can do better, but one thing that is kind of weird is his crosses have progressively gotten worse? In his first few games, he was whipping in some great crosses into very good areas and with a lot of pace. Now it’s a ton of floating crosses that are either too deep or easy for the keeper or don’t have the pace on them to be threatening even if one of our attackers manages to connect.
I think it's an agree to disagree situation...
One of Shaws best seasons for me was ETHs first year, where he predominantly played as a traditional overlapping FB, when he contributed creatively, without being prolific in that regard.
But most importantly he was integral in creating overloads and getting the the best form out of the most dangerous goal getter this squad has. A certain 30 goal Rashford.
Rashford is a player with massive limitations for sure, but without a doubt the biggest contributor to his complete decline was ETHs decision to go 4141, with Rashford glued to the touchline Pep style, with either a none existing or underlapping FB.
In my eyes there is no coincidence that the worst United have ever played in the PL era has been two complete systematic changes that don't suit the profile of the squad.
He represents everything that is wrong with this team and this completely incompetent manager. We are toothless upfront, and the success of at least 60% of our attacking moves is dependent on just how much quality an average left back can continually produce in the final third.
Dorgu is fine (as a full back). Amorim needs to be sacked, however, as his grand plan is a load of absolute rubbish and that has been clear from the beginning.
Dorgu is fine (as a full back). Amorim needs to be sacked, however, as his grand plan is a load of absolute rubbish and that has been clear from the beginning.
For the record, I agree on the things with Rashford, even though I'd personally put the weighting a little more in Rashford having an absolute purple patch regardless of his team mates than on Shaw particularly but thats surely subjective.
I think, what Dorgu could have over Shaw is his willingness to go into 1on1s and his eagerness to contribute in attack. I was a Shaw fan for a long time, but I always thought he got way way too comfortable for us, seemingly being fine with not being at fault for a bad result instead of trying to force the issue. Obviously, not a small feat to achieve but still, as you say, he was one of our better players, of the rather modern ones combining decent physicality with good technique. I am happy if Dorgu delivers only 60-80% of the defensive security that inform Shaw could bring as long as he improves the the wing play on his side considerably, and from what I see, it isn't the willingness he struggles with.
True. Despite Dorgus flaws, I struggle to think of a fullback that can beat his man consistently while also being able to defend
Yeh I agree. As I said, Dorgus biggest current strengths are his physical attributes and his attitude (willingness).
However, as stated by others, in this system the technical and creative demands on the WB are far greater and more challenging than a traditional FB role. So much of his attacking play is receiving the ball in wide open spaces through switches of play, where he is typically 1v1 against a defender, and able to rely only on his own skill and guile to translate the opportunity into creating a chance.
I have no doubts he'll give it a good go. But I am yet to see he possesses the necessary talent required.
Looks to be more suited to a back 4, makes it even more baffling we bought him.
That’s the start of it, yes. If that troubles you, then you can take your own advice too. The system or Amorim has hardly been a roaring success.
What spaces do people think attacking fullbacks utilise exactly? Dorgu would get into the same spaces whether we played 3 at the back or not 
Amorim is clueless is why. Of course a left-back would be more suited to a back four. So long as we continue with Amorim’s nonsense, he and all the others we play there will be more suited to another role. Which is a bit of a problem.
What spaces do people think attacking fullbacks utilise exactly? Dorgu would get into the same spaces whether we played 3 at the back or not
Well he’d have a more capable player in front of him who would be primarily expected to make something out of the situations we now expect Dorgu to make something out of. He has almost no chance at ever being good enough to play this role for Manchester United, which isn’t his fault. Solely on Amorim.
This is a concern as I was expecting us to buy a very good wingback in the summer and we’d let Dorgu hopefully improve and get used to the league more. He can play either side too so he’d be great cover.
He’s significantly better than Dalot on the left, and he’s 6 years younger.
Feels like he has no attacking threat.
There was a point in the game when he had the ball with a lot of space, bearing down on Chelsea's goal where he could have gotten into the box but chose to just chip the ball in the area that the keeper just plucked out the air.
There was a point in the game when he had the ball with a lot of space, bearing down on Chelsea's goal where he could have gotten into the box but chose to just chip the ball in the area that the keeper just plucked out the air.
In an ocean of shit, he has been just okay. However, once again the obvious was made... obvious: Dorgu is not a wingback. Far too poor on the ball, very weak technically. Whoever greenlit this transfer under the assumption he will be playing wingback should be immediately dismissed.
It begs the question of ‘who is?’ Especially to a good enough level where they can consistently make an impact on a team like ours. How many players to such level are even available, or exist? We have put ourselves in a position where we were always going to be more likely to play a player who is not up to it, than the other way around. And that’s on both fecking wings!
It's still early days, but I don't see a wing back there. He's nowhere near threatening enough, and simply lacks quality. But I guess he's young, but we can't afford to have projects in those crucial positions.
What spaces do people think attacking fullbacks utilise exactly? Dorgu would get into the same spaces whether we played 3 at the back or not
Ask that question but then replace fullback, with Right back/Left back.
I mean imagine us wanting G.Neville and Irwin to do what Giggs and Beckham can do.
There is quite a few. Ait Nouri, Frimpong, Davies, Grimaldo, Kerkez, Angelino, Mendes...
I'm astounded by how bad he continues to be nearly every match. We should've left him in the Serie A relegation battle.
I think that list is smaller than you think. Grimaldo and Frimpong not for me at this level, personally. Kerkez is a very good left back, it would be interesting to see how he copes with being the primary attacking outlet, but I do like him. Nouri and Davies are class though, and Mendes for me is also a left-back, not a winger. Davies was always the obvious standout wing-back as soon as we got Amorim. I knew that outside him, we’d struggle to get a natural for that role.
Half of these players play with very capable wingers in front of them, and the difference between what those players do in the final third and what they can do is huge. Dorgu is basically playing Kvaratshkelia’s role here. Which is a joke. I think he’d be far better if playing in Mendes’.
I think he will improve if the team improves. Needs to work on his final pass and cross as they let him down a lot.
I also want to see him just bombing forward when he has the ball. Too many times the ball is just pointlessly passed back to a CB- but this has been a problem at the club for much longer than the last 6 months. And our centre backs just aren't good enough on the wall to make it work in any way
I also want to see him just bombing forward when he has the ball. Too many times the ball is just pointlessly passed back to a CB- but this has been a problem at the club for much longer than the last 6 months. And our centre backs just aren't good enough on the wall to make it work in any way
Frimpong is amazing. Also both are head and shoulders above Dorgu. But I agree there aren't that many options but enough and better ones than Dorgu.
I’m not convinced. We’ll see when he gets to England I suppose.
I do think that even for a good fullback, the task of carrying what Dorgu has been asked to carry for us would be too much for most. Anyone who watches our games will see the large percentage of our attacks that end with him. I can’t imagine many players who played defence for most of their careers could just slot in and take that on for a club of this size. Even players like Trent have had outstanding primary attacking threats playing in front of him on the wing. The picture would be very different if you just removed Salah and gave it to Trent, leaving him 1v1 with opposing fullbacks, giving him far less time and soace to pick his passes etc.
I’ve said before, but watching Dorgu I think his potential as a left back is huge. As a supplementary left wing threat, he has enough attacking qualities. He can overlap well, and will be there to create overloads really and help his winger.
Thank god I'm not the only one who can see this.
I've been quite impressed with him.
I can feel his presence on the pitch, at the age of 20 he already feels part of the first team.
He is always involved, always find himself in the right place at the right time. I don't even think his crossing is that bad but definitely needs to become more accurate at them. They are not particularly fast and powerful crosses, but soft and high ones to the back post. Add more accuracy and they become very useful.
The guy is physically a beast aswell to the point I'm doubting his birth certificate.
I'm hoping a bit like Zirkzee he is capable of adapting to the tempo and fight of the PL after a few months of experience.
I really can't see the comparison to Malacia. Malacia did nothing on the pitch, would go forward with the ball, never cross and just pass back to the central defenders every time.
What was the purpose of signing him? If it was to increase the physicality in the team then I guess you could say he’s done that a bit. If it was to provide an attacking threat as a LWB then it’s been an absolute disaster of a signing. Think I’ve seen him put 2 decent ball in since he joined, Malacia levels of bad from an attacking point of view. I really don’t want to write the kid off yet at his age but I just don’t see him dramatically improving in that area.
It’s such a hyper specific role. So far under this manager the wingbacks must: Have the engine to get up and down the pitch all game; defend in a back five as a conventional fullback; have the ball carrying ability to progress the ball; and then hardest of all, be the player who the ball lands at to do final third stuff and beat a one v one isolation. It’s like you need to be two players in one to truly excel in it the way we set up. As you say, there’s probably a small handful of players up for that role and they all play for much better sides than us. I think it’s made even harder with how Amorim’s idealised “inside no.10’s” aren’t anything close to a wide attacker to offer support out there — see his gushing praises of someone like Mason Mount.
Again, he's just as frustrating with his passing and crossing as Dalot was. That doesnt mean he isnt better, given hes left footed and probably better running the ball out of the back. But like Dalot, once that part is done his passing and crossing from the left is too poor to find teammates. Just as frustrating
I actually think his performances are improving. Seems solid, more physical and more adventurous. Plenty to work on but could be a good option in a variety of positions going forward
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