Patrick Dorgu | 2024/25 Performances

FrankWhite said:
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Whilst that is nothing to write home about at all we can tell that he’s strong, reasonably quick, gets up and down the pitch and has good basics like touch and passing ability. That is a big improvement on previous recruitment where we’ve actively seemed to find players with these deficiencies
 
You must rotate him Rubén. One game at right wing back, the next game LWB, the 3rd game as LCB, an so on. Just try and completely mess with the lads head.

1. Try Amad as RWB in one game. He is sensational.
2. Stop playing Amad as RWB, put ill-suited Maz there.
3. Have 2 left footed defenders crocked, let your last leftie to go on loan
4. Buy a leftie, play him on the right and let Dalots struggle on the wrong side to continue.

Are you deliberately trying to get sacked, mr. Amorim?
 
DJ_21 said:
It was probably planned. Give him an half to get use to the tempo and stuff.
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Yeah also think it was planned. Like the look of him. Difficult game to be introduced to English football. Leicester were very aggressive and pressed well. Outside of a few wobbly moments he did good. Good profile, athletic, strong, fast with some good ball control. Looks promising. Type of player we should target, young with a lot of upside potential physically suited to the league and not on crazy wages.
 
SonOfFergie said:
Yeah also think it was planned. Like the look of him. Difficult game to be introduced to English football. Leicester were very aggressive and pressed well. Outside of a few wobbly moments he did good. Good profile, athletic, strong, fast with some good ball control. Looks promising. Type of player we should target, young with a lot of upside potential physically suited to the league and not on crazy wages.
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If playing at home to Leicester is a difficult game to be introduced to English football, there are no easy games
 
hellhunter said:
If playing at home to Leicester is a difficult game to be introduced to English football, there are no easy games
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Not in a regular game but being a cup game they were well up for it. As seen multiple times team names mean little in cup games.
 
From what I saw, he´d be perfectly servisable as a LWB, and more going forward. Ton of aggression, drives forward, just let him do his things.
Saw that clip of the first training session, streaming live. It was all in full pelt, players doing cut backs from outside with their strong foot. And they scored from it, everyone enjoying it, even Johny Evans said its the best training session since Busby.

What the feck is this, asking a new guy Dorgu commin´ straith into disjointed team, playing on wrong side? I like you Ruben but this is, sorry for my word, stupid.
 
Brand Nubian said:
From what I saw, he´d be perfectly servisable as a LWB, and more going forward. Ton of aggression, drives forward, just let him do his things.
Saw that clip of the first training session, streaming live. It was all in full pelt, players doing cut backs from outside with their strong foot. And they scored from it, everyone enjoying it, even Johny Evans said its the best training session since Busby.

What the feck is this, asking a new guy Dorgu commin´ straith into disjointed team, playing on wrong side? I like you Ruben but this is, sorry for my word, stupid.
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I think I read on previous posts that Amorim did that for supervision purpose. He can guide him as he is on the coach side. Although this is the first time i heard a coach using such tactic.
 
He's just going to keep playing him on the right. Managers do this weird shit all the time. Like having Shaw and Bruno take out swinging corners that never beat the first man instead of letting them get better at in swingers on their good side. Master stroke from ETH
 
meninred said:
I think I read on previous posts that Amorim did that for supervision purpose. He can guide him as he is on the coach side. Although this is the first time i heard a coach using such tactic.
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Then bring him on in the second. But playing him on the wrong side aside, I thought he looked pretty decent. I’m looking forward to seeing more of him.
 
As the great Brian Clough once said "football is a simple game".
 
@Ayoba exactyl.

Just play him LWB, Dalow RWB - give them attacking license and live with the fact our 3 CBs will have to scramble a lot. When they have the ball, put it into the mixer, Hojlund is fast and big, Zirzkee is big and good at flick ons/control, Bruno is good at arriving in the box. If you don't put the ball into the box you'll never threaten anything. If we still see Hojlund/Zirkzee struggling with lots of deliveries we know there's an issue, as it stands they get scraps to try and make magic from (or just no passes at all).

Guess which team is 18th in the league for number of crosses?
 
Nothing exciting ability wise but at least he has the speed and power for the league. Easier to coach and develop this kind of players, I'm tires of having a weak slow squad, out paced and out run each week.
 
Time to develop but I could see the difference between a traditional full back playing the role and Dorgu's brief 45 minutes. He looked to join the attack at every opportunity where Maz would have been hesitant due to his urge to defend first in mindset.
 
united for life said:
But not sure why he’d start on the right and continue playing Dalot out of position on the left. Probably Amad on the right and Dorgu left would make more sense
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I said it based on what Sporting fans has been telling us about his preference for a left footer as a RWB. Dalot can play both sides and played on the left a lot when he was on loan to Milan. Ruben also seems to prefer inverted WB's.

Amad on the right and Dorgu on the left would be my preference too. I have been calling for us to go more attacking and stop with playing five defenders on the pitch.
 
He certainly bumps up the physicality base of the team!

Lots of things to like within that 45 mins period.
 
Insanity said:
I said it based on what Sporting fans has been telling us about his preference for a left footer as a RWB. Dalot can play both sides and played on the left a lot when he was on loan to Milan. Ruben also seems to prefer inverted WB's.

Amad on the right and Dorgu on the left would be my preference too. I have been calling for us to go more attacking and stop with playing five defenders on the pitch.
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Exactly. a championship team facing the likes of Liverpool might want to play with 2 full backs in this system to get 5 defenders. But as the club we are, this formation should not be a solely defensive one. Wingbacks should play like wingbacks. They are very important to making or breaking the system. Hope he does the sensible thing which we both agree on
 
Ali Dia said:
He's just going to keep playing him on the right. Managers do this weird shit all the time. Like having Shaw and Bruno take out swinging corners that never beat the first man instead of letting them get better at in swingers on their good side. Master stroke from ETH
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They double down more when fans and the media question them about it. It's an ego thing.
 
Haven't seen much of him but the athleticism gap already makes our recent transfers seem even more criminal.
 
SonOfFergie said:
Not in a regular game but being a cup game they were well up for it. As seen multiple times team names mean little in cup games.
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Oh please. Leicester is a stinky bad team. They're relegation level. We're just bad too
 
Maybe I've only just noticed it since the signing of Dorgu, but it feels like there's a surprising amount of fresh annoyance at a tactic that we've already been adopting at times throughout the season and which we knew was used regularly by the manager at previous clubs.

I don't remember seeing too much outrage when we often used Amad, or Antony, on the right and continued with Dalot on the left. So double inverted FB's when we could have switched them and had the right footer on the right and left footer on the left.

Then we sign Dorgu - another player who, as in modern times, has played just as much on the opposite side to his stronger foot. So spent as much time on the right as he has on the left. Comes in and continues our existing policy of playing our left footed wnger / WB on the right, and suddenly there seems a far higher outrage at the concept of double inverted WB's - something we'd already done a number of times.

For the record, I'm fine with either. There's a lot definitely wrong with our team. This isn't something that's 'wrong', just down to personal preference and can work either way depending on many of those other factors.

A perfect example of that is this very game being discussed - we were much better in the second half, despite still playing two inverted WB's in Amad and Dalot on their opposite sides. And the improvement was down to taking off Mainoo for Garnacho higher up the pitch, and Alejandro providing width on the left that way. So the double inverted FB's worked fine second half - when the balance of the team higher up the pitch worked better.

There's also the continual issues of our Old Trafford form, and the fact that that we are mostly very poor in the first half, and never score, home or away. Regardless of the many different combination we try. And that tends to improve in the second half. All of which happened again here. So another factor that needs taking into account is the mentality of the players at the start of games - we've tried all different combinations, so it's not specific personnel or formation that's the issue, it's seemingly a collective mental issue.
 
finally caught the highlights, I thought he looked good

physically he's exactly what we needed in the team, if nothing else
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Then we sign Dorgu - another player who, as in modern times, has played just as much on the opposite side to his stronger foot. So spent as much time on the right as he has on the left.
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Agree with you post, but to be fair he spent all his time on the right as a winger, not wingback, at Lecce whereas on the left he mostly played wb.

That said it is baffling how many posters who think they’re experts on everything and assume a highly regarded professional like Amorim must be totally incompetent. Guess the Dunning Kruger effect is strong in here.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
Agree with you post, but to be fair he spent all his time on the right as a winger, not wingback, at Lecce whereas on the left he mostly played wb.

That said it is baffling how many posters who think they’re experts on everything and assume a highly regarded professional like Amorim must be totally incompetent. Guess the Dunning Kruger effect is strong in here.
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I think most people were looking forward to seeing Dalot on the right (or on the bench) because he hasn't been very good on the left in general.
 
Maagge said:
I think most people were looking forward to seeing Dalot on the right (or on the bench) because he hasn't been very good on the left in general.
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And that's fine. Stick to that point about one specific player and his form / ability in the role.

I've also said that our best combination at this point is probably Amad on the right and Dorgu on the left - but that's nothing to do with which foot they are, or against inverted WB's. I just think the other options we have - Dalot and Mazraoui - aren't as good in that role.

But Amad is also needed - and at his best - in the #10 role, so there's going to be plenty of times when we do have to go with someone like Dalot. And then I don't mind whether we continue sticking with inverted WB's or putting them on the side of their stronger foot.

We don't really have any attacking players who are good in the air and will thrive off crosses into the box. So I can see why going with inverted wing backs cutting inside to link up in attacks is a valid option compared to getting players to the byline and putting aerial crosses in. Obviously they can also do cut backs along the ground from the byline which will work - but the need to keep it more on the ground rather than putting aerial crosses in is why inverted wing backs seems a valid option as well.
 
We are all guilty of over reacting, especially during games.

Dorgu has played regularly on both sides as a winger and a full back. So nobody should be surprised if we see him continue in any of those positions.

But any excuse to bash the team/club is hard to resist during these hard times.
 
RuudTom83 said:
We are all guilty of over reacting, especially during games.

Dorgu has played regularly on both sides as a winger and a full back. So nobody should be surprised if we see him continue in any of those positions.

But any excuse to bash the team/club is hard to resist during these hard times.
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Don't think the issue most people have is with Dorgu or his ability to play on the right though, but rather the impact him doing so has on Dalot.

Because whatever about inverted wingbacks generally, most people think Dalot specifically is better on the right than on the left.

Including, at least previously, the actual manager:

 
Bertie Wooster said:
And that's fine. Stick to that point about one specific player and his form / ability in the role.

I've also said that our best combination at this point is probably Amad on the right and Dorgu on the left - but that's nothing to do with which foot they are, or against inverted WB's. I just think the other options we have - Dalot and Mazraoui - aren't as good in that role.

But Amad is also needed - and at his best - in the #10 role, so there's going to be plenty of times when we do have to go with someone like Dalot. And then I don't mind whether we continue sticking with inverted WB's or putting them on the side of their stronger foot.

We don't really have any attacking players who are good in the air and will thrive off crosses into the box. So I can see why going with inverted wing backs cutting inside to link up in attacks is a valid option compared to getting players to the byline and putting aerial crosses in. Obviously they can also do cut backs along the ground from the byline which will work - but the need to keep it more on the ground rather than putting aerial crosses in is why inverted wing backs seems a valid option as well.
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I actually think Amad has been best for us playing RWB. It allows him to pick the ball up and carry it from out wide.

In any case, this was just one game, but I completely understand the frustration of people who just wants to see us play with a proper left sided player for once.
Maybe Amorim just thought it would be good to give Dorgu his debut on the same side as our most industrious AM.
 
Maagge said:
I actually think Amad has been best for us playing RWB. It allows him to pick the ball up and carry it from out wide.

In any case, this was just one game, but I completely understand the frustration of people who just wants to see us play with a proper left sided player for once.
Maybe Amorim just thought it would be good to give Dorgu his debut on the same side as our most industrious AM.
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That's fair.

But I think that's the point of why we've been playing double inverted wing backs - because it suited Amad - and Antony when used - to be on that side. So Dalot, as a lesser effective one on either side, was more used on the left by default as he couldn't be on the right and we had no other fit / good enough options.

Now that we've got Dorgu, I agree that our best combination from attacking WB's point of view would be Amad and Dorgu. The problem is we haven't got a plethora of competent #10's either, and so also need Amad there at times instead.

So when he was used there, I had no issue with us continuing to play the left footed winger / WB (Dorgu in this case) on the right and therefore leaving Dalot to be LWB. Of course Dalot would be a little better on his natural side, but he's not a great WB either side so we're trying to get the best out of our most attacking ones - which is Amad, and now Dorgu - and RWB seems to be deemed the best for these left footed inverted attacking players. Which is why we're prioritising that, and Dalot continues to fill in on the left. Not really fair on him, but he's not dominant enough either side to demand to be the one prioritised.
 
sullydnl said:
Don't think the issue most people have is with Dorgu or his ability to play on the right though, but rather the impact him doing so has on Dalot.

Because whatever about inverted wingbacks generally, most people think Dalot specifically is better on the right than on the left.

Including, at least previously, the actual manager:
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Interesting, but I always find within team selection you will always get disagreements.

In the last game if you limit the argument to Dalot vs Dorgu, then sure you can be annoyed that they were not playing on opposite sides.

But then you could say, losing Martinez maybe influenced the manager and he didn't want to start with a new LCB and LWB in one game, also Dalot scored in the last match (I believe) so keeping him in the same position and only changing Yoro at LCB was the right choice for that game.

Beauty of football innit!
 
Bertie Wooster said:
And that's fine. Stick to that point about one specific player and his form / ability in the role.

I've also said that our best combination at this point is probably Amad on the right and Dorgu on the left - but that's nothing to do with which foot they are, or against inverted WB's. I just think the other options we have - Dalot and Mazraoui - aren't as good in that role.

But Amad is also needed - and at his best - in the #10 role, so there's going to be plenty of times when we do have to go with someone like Dalot. And then I don't mind whether we continue sticking with inverted WB's or putting them on the side of their stronger foot.

We don't really have any attacking players who are good in the air and will thrive off crosses into the box. So I can see why going with inverted wing backs cutting inside to link up in attacks is a valid option compared to getting players to the byline and putting aerial crosses in. Obviously they can also do cut backs along the ground from the byline which will work - but the need to keep it more on the ground rather than putting aerial crosses in is why inverted wing backs seems a valid option as well.
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This is all absolutely fine, but assuming he has been signed to be a RWB, why did we do this when we clearly needed someone for the LWB position. Especially when we have such a limited budget. I find it hard to believe Amorim has watched Dalot at LWB and though that position was covered, or it was less urgent than finding a new RWB.
 
sullydnl said:
Don't think the issue most people have is with Dorgu or his ability to play on the right though, but rather the impact him doing so has on Dalot.

Because whatever about inverted wingbacks generally, most people think Dalot specifically is better on the right than on the left.

Including, at least previously, the actual manager:

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This is interesting that he didn't just move Dalot to the right once he had the opportunity.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
Agree with you post, but to be fair he spent all his time on the right as a winger, not wingback, at Lecce whereas on the left he mostly played wb.

That said it is baffling how many posters who think they’re experts on everything and assume a highly regarded professional like Amorim must be totally incompetent. Guess the Dunning Kruger effect is strong in here.
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Its funny how many couch managers we have that know better. Amorim explained why he played him there so he can communicate with him.

Its as simple as that really. Also, he played Quenda who is a left footed at RWB too. I dont see the big issue.
 
romufc said:
Its funny how many couch managers we have that know better. Amorim explained why he played him there so he can communicate with him.

Its as simple as that really. Also, he played Quenda who is a left footed at RWB too. I dont see the big issue.
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How is it a couch manager mentality? Playing a left footed wingback on the right and a right footed wingback on the left makes you cut in far more than you want to, and forces play into congested areas.

This is what happened in the game too by the way.

When Dorgu played full back on the right, or right wing for Lecce they at least had a left footed LB on the other side. This is not the case at Untied which made us look quite dogmatic in how we play, again.
 
VP89 said:
How is it a couch manager mentality? Playing a left footed wingback on the right and a right footed wingback on the left makes you cut in far more than you want to, and forces play into congested areas.

This is what happened in the game too by the way.

When Dorgu played full back on the right, or right wing for Lecce they at least had a left footed LB on the other side. This is not the case at Untied which made us look quite dogmatic in how we play, again.
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Why is it? Becuase it contradicts what the manager is saying /doing.

Various reasons actually, I will tell you them now:

1. If you research the manager, sporting played Quenda who is a left footed player on the right...
2. He wants to play Dorgu LWB, he came out saying its because he wanted to communicate with Dorgu during the game... he cant do that if the player is on the other side of the pitch..
 
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