[Isotope]

He's never shown anything here to give you optimism 'there's a player' there.

Analysis from our Caf SME when we're linked with Dorgu on winter:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/patrick-dorgu-signed-for-£25-2m-£4-2m-in-potential-add-ons-until-2030.485485/post-32864380

Bummer!

The player has some encouraging qualities but is too hit-and-miss as a creative outlet (arguably the foremost consideration for wingers and wingbacks) and a real work in progress from a positional standpoint at this point in time. Surely we could recruit someone who's more polished or more talented at that price range (or a bit higher, perhaps, if push comes to shove and we have to pay a slight premium for crème de la crème options?)

That being said, would love to be proven wrong (in the near term, and especially in the years to come). Hope spring eternal, as always; maybe Dorgu is primed for the next step in his development and there's more to him than meets the eye (which has captured the imagination of our scouting department).

 

[Lash]

I'm not really of the mind to break down the game of younger players as they should be allowed room for growth and mistakes in and of themselves should be expected from them. What you can do, however, is look at the base level, the tools they're working with and the potential you think you see in them by extrapolating upon what you see.

I watched the vid you put up and it's problematic because it's underwhelming. Great for Serie A, but not much in there I would expect to translate to the PL. A lot more space against players who aren't athletic and the technique on display is, as you say, decent, which isn't a good sign given he's going up levels coming to this league and will face opponents for which his threat isn't so much of a threat.

Contrast any vid of him you can find (I'm pretty sure) with something like this, from an even younger player:



And there'll be a sizeable contrast. This is the kind of player you want to endure the growing pains and mistakes of, and most likely very little of the time it'll be his technical level and competency under the microscope. We paid a lot of money for Dorgu and honestly you expect a higher level of technical ability for the outlay - a Manchester United player, or so the saying used to go. Now Quenda may be called an outlier and he cost Chelsea a lot more to acquire, but should the contrast be so extreme? Is the fee paid the going rate for a Dorgu with the technique he has? I don't think it is.

I think the question you should ask when it comes to the likes of Brighton and a player like Dorgu is whether he'd register as a desirable buy according to their data models, and then, how much they'd pay for him. I don't know what we were looking at when scouting him or what we saw in him to spend that kind of money, but I highly doubt the kind of teams you're referring to in the PL would have done the same. Your point about them developing unpolished gems is a valid one. I don't think this is the kind of gem they'd actively seek in the first place.

Don't want this post misconstrued because I'm replying directly to your post so it has to be objective and not filled with leaps or faith and hope. I didn't know anything about the player before we were linked and since he was, the deeper dive has been underwhelming to me, especially for what we paid. That's not a punt amount.

I sincerely wish him the best and it would be fantastic if he can kick on, but him being such a key component in our attack is far from ideal for him and us.

It's a fair comparison, £25m is a lot considering where he came from and we should be expecting better from him. The only point on Quenda is he is doing that in a far worse league than Dorgu was, albeit the difference is stark in terms of his style of play.

On the Brighton point, I think they would you know. They don't pay peanuts for players £25m is right on the nose for what they pay. Kadioglu for example and he's much older.

I agree he is probably too integral to our attack to give him the space to grow and probably why Leon won't be thrown in any time soon. It probably was a bit too much to expect him to come in and solve our problems, but long term it's a cheap signing - he's on a very low wage too.

 

[Rasmus_9]

I think there is definitely potential with Dorgu. Our problem though is one that we keep repeating over and over again. Buying young players and throwing them straight into the deep end. Dorgu should be back up to an experienced pro. Just like Hojland should have been as well as Yoro to a lesser extent. We are ruining these players confidence and then the wheels fall off from there on in unfortunately

 

[Ayoba]

I do not think anybody is bashing him for having too many touches in their box. What everybody is questioning is, why are we playing and insisting on a system where the player who is getting the most space, chances and opportunities in opposition box is a fullback. No wonder we are unable to score goals, because the crunch moments are falling to a player with poor technical ability and inexperience. The spare man in this system is always a fullback or a CB, which is not ideal from attacking perspective. You want the spare man to be number 9, 10 or LW or RW players, that's where the system fails, exposes the weaknesses of poor players rather than protecting them and amplifying the strengths.

Great summary and exactly why I detest this system.

 

[Big Ron’s Coat]

It’s a baffling signing. I knew nothing of him before he arrived, but assumed he’d have all the qualities you need or expect from a potentially elite wingback. It’s an incredibly demanding role even for those with the perquisite ability let alone for those who don’t. It’s mental to me we paid so much for so little.

It’s also mad that his club and international coaches have played him as a winger. Not a wingback but an out-and-out bloody winger. I mean what the actual feck are these people seeing that we’re all not seeing.

Meanwhile Chelsea got Hato for pretty much the same price. That puts this signing in context. Wilcox is out of his depth. He and Berrada need to go.

 

[Skills]

I mean this is his entire united career, receiving the ball in a very promising position, but crosses like an amateur, not once seen him beat the first defender with his cross.

He should've done better with the cross but Mainoo went wide way too early there. That pass should've gone to Bruno first, and Dorgu should/would've continued his run but inside the box to deliver a cut back rather than a cross.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

It was a silly buy. We are not a CL club, we are a midtable club. We should be prioritizing players like Mbeumo and Cunha who are already doing well in clubs historically below us. Whether Dorgu would be the wingback missing puzzle piece or not should not even have been discussed because it was a gamble we should not have taken.

I mean, we should not have hired Amorim if these specific players were crucial to the system, and we have seen thi system lives or dies on the wingback.

We don’t have them. Dorgu ain’t it.

 

[TwoSheds]

He should've done better with the cross but Mainoo went wide way too early there. That pass should've gone to Bruno first, and Dorgu should/would've continued his run but inside the box to deliver a cut back rather than a cross.

Come off it. Look at the cutback that Dorgu doesn't see and instead taps it to City's fullback. It didn't matter which order the passes were played but Dorgu chose the worse option when he got the ball and executed the cross poorly too. It's not like Dorgu has shown any shooting boots while he's been here so Bruno laying him in on goal wouldn't be a better scoring chance than him cutting it back to Bruno.

And again, I don't want to jump on Dorgu here, I like a lot of things about him and he certainly wouldn't be the first young full back or winger to have poor decision making, but he's clearly not ready to be the guy in space that this system seems to create.

 

[Hughes35]

Dorgu seems like a great athlete and has some decent qualities, just don't think he's a great footballer.

One of those players that I think could ge good in the right system. Don't think wing back suits him as it highlights his limitations on the ball

 

[Stickz]

Analysis from our Caf SME when we're linked with Dorgu on winter:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/patrick-dorgu-signed-for-£25-2m-£4-2m-in-potential-add-ons-until-2030.485485/post-32864380

Looks like a good call from Invictus.

 

[Skills]

Come off it. Look at the cutback that Dorgu doesn't see and instead taps it to City's fullback. It didn't matter which order the passes were played but Dorgu chose the worse option when he got the ball and executed the cross poorly too. It's not like Dorgu has shown any shooting boots while he's been here so Bruno laying him in on goal wouldn't be a better scoring chance than him cutting it back to Bruno.

And again, I don't want to jump on Dorgu here, I like a lot of things about him and he certainly wouldn't be the first young full back or winger to have poor decision making, but he's clearly not ready to be the guy in space that this system seems to create.

There is no cutback there. He could pass it back to Bruno, but the quality of chance is is automatically quite low from that point onwards because that's a pass back to the edge of the box with all of City's defenders blocking his path on goal.

The order of the passes actually does matter. The ball if it goes to Bruno, should commit a City defender out. Then Bruno should be laying it off for Dorgu to run onto it around the 8 yard line - so he can actually cut it back to the penalty spot or hit it across goal. That's why a cutback is so effective - there has to be a dual threat of the ball going back across to the penalty spot or across cross the 8 yard line.

But the place he received the ball now, meant there was only one legitimate goalscoring threat which was a ball across the 8 yard line. It's a shit ball, but City should be clearing that all day long anyway.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Most of the criticism is fair and there's nothing more to add to that. However, just to give a fresher take which I've already said previously but I honestly believe he could be a very interesting prospect (emphasis on this because it's a combination of potential and current ability) at LB in a back four. His best qualities like making runs off the ball, overlapping, being an outlet (for the secondary phase) and staying goalside when defending would be highlighted and his weaknesses (lack of end product) would be massively reduced. It wouldn't be a sure thing because I would worry about his positioning off the ball and at the back post but a better manager would make something out of him.

Right now this manager is making everyone look shit and putting them on a platform to fail.

Another thing is his lack of basic technique. I reckon he’d be a liability in build up just like AWB was before him.

Playing as a wing back helps disguise this somewhat because he’s more often receiving the ball faceing the opposition goal and in plenty of space.

 

[VP89]

His crossing is far too inconsistent. And his ability to navigate tight corners or congested areas is very poor.

Some of us knew this and could point to it from a mile away from his Lecce days.

 

[TwoSheds]

There is no cutback there. He could pass it back to Bruno, but the quality of chance is is automatically quite low from that point onwards because that's a pass back to the edge of the box with all of City's defenders blocking his path on goal.

The order of the passes actually does matter. The ball if it goes to Bruno, should commit a City defender out. Then Bruno should be laying it off for Dorgu to run onto it around the 8 yard line - so he can actually cut it back to the penalty spot or hit it across goal. That's why a cutback is so effective - there has to be a dual threat of the ball going back across to the penalty spot or across cross the 8 yard line.

But the place he received the ball now, meant there was only one legitimate goalscoring threat which was a ball across the 8 yard line. It's a shit ball, but City should be clearing that all day long anyway.

So Bruno's chances of scoring or creating for somebody else are low when unmarked at the edge of the box? Just nonsense. Admittedly Bruno looked a little bit on his heels there but no, choosing a one striker Vs five City players option is not the right one.

 

[Fortitude]

It's a fair comparison, £25m is a lot considering where he came from and we should be expecting better from him. The only point on Quenda is he is doing that in a far worse league than Dorgu was, albeit the difference is stark in terms of his style of play.

On the Brighton point, I think they would you know. They don't pay peanuts for players £25m is right on the nose for what they pay. Kadioglu for example and he's much older.

I agree he is probably too integral to our attack to give him the space to grow and probably why Leon won't be thrown in any time soon. It probably was a bit too much to expect him to come in and solve our problems, but long term it's a cheap signing - he's on a very low wage too.

Well honestly, you want high levels of observable technical acumen from anyone we’re looking to bring in and from that angle, he comes up short from the outset. Evra at Monaco, Valencia at Wigan, Blind at Ajax and so and so forth were all clear and apparent that they had the technical ability to make the step up and not be found wanting. Going back some, before our signings mostly became tragic, but the gist is clear. I remember reading his transfer thread and being underwhelmed by the feedback and those who pointed out what he was short on have proven to be spot on. My concern is that the departments in charge were tasked with bringing in an optimal wingback and thought Dorgu for a substantial amount, was the guy. That’s crazy to me.

I should also point out the reason why Dorgu is a hot topic is because the system tasks him with one of the most crucial roles in the team. This won’t change whilst Amorim is here and I’d expect him to be under even more pressure to perform as our situation worsens. I think long-term he’ll either get a go at fullback or will be moved on, personally.

 

[Fortitude]

It’s also mad that his club and international coaches have played him as a winger. Not a wingback but an out-and-out bloody winger. I mean what the actual feck are these people seeing that we’re all not seeing.

Meanwhile Chelsea got Hato for pretty much the same price. That puts this signing in context. Wilcox is out of his depth. He and Berrada need to go.

It is a confusing signing for me, I must say. You’d like to trust those in charge to apply their professional judgment and insight, but it’s been quite some time since that could be trusted and taken at face value.

 

[Lash]

Well honestly, you want high levels of observable technical acumen from anyone we’re looking to bring in and from that angle, he comes up short from the outset. Evra at Monaco, Valencia at Wigan, Blind at Ajax and so and so forth were all clear and apparent that they had the technical ability to make the step up and not be found wanting. Going back some, before our signings mostly became tragic, but the gist is clear. I remember reading his transfer thread and being underwhelmed by the feedback and those who pointed out what he was short on have proven to be spot on. My concern is that the departments in charge were tasked with bringing in an optimal wingback and thought Dorgu for a substantial amount, was the guy. That’s crazy to me.

I should also point out the reason why Dorgu is a hot topic is because the system tasks him with one of the most crucial roles in the team. This won’t change whilst Amorim is here and I’d expect him to be under even more pressure to perform as our situation worsens. I think long-term he’ll either get a go at fullback or will be moved on, personally.

It's a fair point an criticism and I was very much on the Quenda train when we got Amorim in, it made the most sense to get one of the biggest prospects in a key position for him. Maybe I'm naive and hoped the recruitment team can see he's got more to give and the potential to fill the role we need him to. He's not really shown it yet, but I'll always go back to my experience of watching Kane at the Den and never thinking he'd come anywhere close to the level of technique he possesses now.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

It sucks we can’t loan him out. He needs to go play wingback for 2 years in a league that will give him more time on the ball and let him develop this part of his game. I don’t think he can stay and have his confidence /reputation survive the inevitable (Amorim’s getting the ax). If we go 4 at the back under the next coach , Dorgu will be a squad player but won’t improve.

 

[Red the Bear]

I suppose they saw potential there but some of fundamentals are too lacking for him to be a mainstay of a high class team.

 

[red_de_pologne]

I said it in another thread, he's another victim of the setup, he's expected to be the main creative outlet almost, all the balls go through him, shouldn't be his role

 

[Hammondo]

I think there is definitely potential with Dorgu. Our problem though is one that we keep repeating over and over again. Buying young players and throwing them straight into the deep end. Dorgu should be back up to an experienced pro. Just like Hojland should have been as well as Yoro to a lesser extent. We are ruining these players confidence and then the wheels fall off from there on in unfortunately

It's funny because some people then complain we don't give our youngsters enough chances like other teams.

 

[Hammondo]

I said it in another thread, he's another victim of the setup, he's expected to be the main creative outlet almost, all the balls go through him, shouldn't be his role

It's no shock our 2 most creative players with passes provide for someone else.

 

[Big Ron’s Coat]

It is a confusing signing for me, I must say. You’d like to trust those in charge to apply their professional judgment and insight, but it’s been quite some time since that could be trusted and taken at face value.

Paired with the conspiracy to play Bruno in a midfield two the outlook is pretty bleak at the moment unless Jim makes some wholesale changes.

 

[Atheist]

Even Bebe could run, doesn’t mean that in itself makes someone a good footballer. And that’s equally true for Dorgu. He’s another one of Amorim’s favorites. No matter how shit he can play, he’ll never be dropped or subbed.

 

[Doracle]

Even Bebe could run, doesn’t mean that in itself makes someone a good footballer. And that’s equally true for Dorgu. He’s another one of Amorim’s favorites. No matter how shit he can play, he’ll never be dropped or subbed.

He’s been dropped. The Grimsby match when he was hauled off has put him behind Dalot. He’s now the back up who played on Sunday because Dalot is injured.

 

[Ekeke]

Posters mentioning Brighton... The thing is they have a revolving door. They dont make 1 speculative signing, they make loads of them. And yeah the ones who play each week and do well and get a big move are the ones we think of but there are loads of signings they make and then they go out on loan because they arent good enough yet. Some of them move on and they dont get the headlines that Caicedo or Joao Pedro got when leaving. If Dorgu had gone there he might be on loan getting experience somewhere else like Buononette, Beadle, Sarmiento, Igor Julio, Matt O'Riley and to some extent Evan Ferguson (Roma have the option to buy, if they do not he got experience and came back a better player) or he might have been sold on like Enciso and Barco who were both sold to Strasbourg, a club in Chelsea's group who might take them if they do very well in France

 

[Mike Smalling]

Even Bebe could run, doesn’t mean that in itself makes someone a good footballer. And that’s equally true for Dorgu. He’s another one of Amorim’s favorites. No matter how shit he can play, he’ll never be dropped or subbed.

The reality is, that he is the only left-footed player we have that can play the position. Shaw doesn't have the legs and Leon is completely untested. For that reason alone, we will probably see a lot of him this season - we just have to hope he improves.

Personally, I can't stand watching Dalot on the left. The runs he makes, the check-backs, drifting inside all the time, etc. I honestly don't think it's a better solution than Dorgu, all things taken into account. It's not like Dalot is a good defender either.

 

[Lash]

Posters mentioning Brighton... The thing is they have a revolving door. They dont make 1 speculative signing, they make loads of them. And yeah the ones who play each week and do well and get a big move are the ones we think of but there are loads of signings they make and then they go out on loan because they arent good enough yet. Some of them move on and they dont get the headlines that Caicedo or Joao Pedro got when leaving. If Dorgu had gone there he might be on loan getting experience somewhere else like Buononette, Beadle, Sarmiento, Igor Julio, Matt O'Riley and to some extent Evan Ferguson (Roma have the option to buy, if they do not he got experience and came back a better player) or he might have been sold on like Enciso and Barco who were both sold to Strasbourg, a club in Chelsea's group who might take them if they do very well in France

There's no real reason we can't do that though, I think our other speculative signing (Leon) is a bit too far away in maturity to offer a credible alternative, which could be the real issue. I think our squad building is generally crap, although I think all the attacking signings were good this summer, we replaced our front 3 completely for the long term. We have to do something similar with our midfield and wing backs next window.

 

[Telsim]

Athletic lad with an engine and virtually no end product.

 

[chris123]

Thought this was a very concerning performance. Arguably responsible for all of Chelsea's big chances. Just really poor positionally and Reece James toyed with him for the entire second half.

You go back a minute before their goal and it's basically two Dorgu mistakes which even lets them have the opportunity to create that chance in the first place.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Very athletic but poor final product.

 

[nmm85]

Thought this was a very concerning performance. Arguably responsible for all of Chelsea's big chances. Just really poor positionally and Reece James toyed with him for the entire second half.

You go back a minute before their goal and it's basically two Dorgu mistakes which even lets them have the opportunity to create that chance in the first place.

Bruno seemed to have a strong worth with him at full-time.

 

[Sylar]

Athletic lad with an engine and virtually no end product.

Pretty much this. Even his touch at times is infuriating. He's looking like a dud

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Athletic lad with an engine and virtually no end product.

Put in a couple of lovely balls and got an assist today.

 

[RedSky]

He looked very tired after 60/70mins. We don't have an alternative to switch it up.

 

[Hester_manc]

I think Dorgu was really good in the first half. His cross after 2-3 minutes was wonderful.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Very athletic but poor final product.

For me he's got a great engine, really good spring on his jumps but very one-paced.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He is so many times in good position to pass or cross but he just doesn't have ability to do it. What a shame.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Very athletic but poor final product.

Temu Adama Traore.

 

[Ekeke]

I honestly thought his crossing was better than Amad's today. Bit of a backwards compliment but I'd say Dorgu's was a bit better than normal and Amad's was worse than normal