I like the idea but Shaw would genuinely break down after half a game in that position. It's a total non starter.
13
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 28
- Clean sheets
- 5
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 4
Definitely. Shaw is a LCB in this system, and only that. I'm not even sure I'd put him at LB if we were to play a back four again.
We seem to be seeing a change in tactics this season in particular, but that's not the same as seeing a sudden huge change in the athleticism of the average player.
Since returning from his loan to Milan, Dalot didn't have any injures in 21/22, one small injury in that 22/23 season that you're talking about which put him out for eight games, no injury in 23/24 (despite playing 90 minutes in almost every single game of the season), one injury that cost him six games in 24/25 and now two games this season so far. So three relatively small injuries in four and a bit years (actually five and a bit seeing as he didn't get injured at Milan either). Other than Bruno, what other player in the squad comes even close to that injury record?
Our difference seems to be that you like to talk in extremes, with there being huge changes and humongous differences to things that actually aren't 'that' big.
I could potentially see Shaw being a very good impact player off the bench at LWB, bringing him on for the final 20-30 minutes to add some real quality. But yeah I agree he wouldn't be able to handle it as a starter.
We need to be patient with Dorgu. I do think once Martinez is back, we absolutely have to try Shaw at LWB. It could potentially be transformative.
Let’s be honest here, Dorgu has some good attributes, physically he’s strong and he’s quick enough but technically he’s so far off being good enough for a starting spot right now. Unfortunately it’s slim pickings for United on the left side. I think 30 million was crazy for a player with so many technical limitations.
Small gripe, but it was £25 million guaranteed. If we sell him, you'd hope we'll get at least £15 million of that back...so less crazy than deals like Antony, Sancho, De Beek..etc.
The increase in athleticism has been rapid, but it's been over several years, not just this season. It's a big reason why we were so poor in the league, while comparatively decent in Europe, last season, because we couldn't match the physicality of PL teams. The difference between now and a few years ago is really stark, the athleticism in the league has exploded.
As for an injury record comparable, how about Dorgu himself, he hasn't been out injured at all, or has missed a single game, in his career, depending on the source.
Regarding your accusation that I talk in extremes, and by calling it the difference between us making yourself out to be neutral, for me it's laughable. You've underplayed the obvious increase in athleticism in the league, and you've exaggerated Dalot's physical capabilities across the board, some mild, some strong (the most egregious of which is probably claiming he "never looked tired", given the volume of errors he's been making for years now, which is at least partly due to fatigue).
I stand by my original sentiment, that Dorgu is much more physically capable than Dalot. He's quicker, stronger, taller, and fitter, with the gaps ranging from significant to large.
Using those 3 examples is hardly a good barometer, Sancho and Antony are arguably 2 of the worst signings in premier league history. De Beek was a ridiculous last minute punt to appease fans. My point still stands though, how ever many millions Dorgu cost, he’s woefully deficient technically, we should be staying away from those players.
Probably that he was the fittest and most match ready in preseason.
Where is it coming from? If there is one attribute in which Dalot is very good, that’s his fitness. Unfortunately, it doesn’t help with decision making, but fitness is not in question
Nottingham Forest 2:2 Man Utd
Thought he did well when he came on.
Got a haircut.
Did well when he came on, to be fair.
One of his better performances this season, really shut down that flank effectively. If he can play to his potential he's a better option than Dalot, but his technique is still so inconsistent.
He has got a 5.6 rating in the post match thread, so he must have been at least a bit awful. I thought it was a solid cameo, and that he came on way too late. Did not see any notable mistakes, but they must obviously have been there. Else someone is biased, and that is simply not possible.
I think Amorim is managing him well how, probably could have done with this sort of protection last season. Hopefully he kicks on for it.
I want to see him start over Dalot please. Neither is a prolific contributor from a creative sense bht Dorgu works hard and wins battles against his markers. He is also good at progression and stretching that left side.
Good cameo, I think he can come good, bear in mind he is still only 20!
I'd be starting him ahead of Dalot for sure.
Edit, turned 21 a few days ago apparently, so he's old and shit now
I'd be starting him ahead of Dalot for sure.
Edit, turned 21 a few days ago apparently, so he's old and shit now
Yeah Dorgu is so much better at just being quick off the mark and reacting to danger. I’ve not seen a player like Dalot in years who just stands there and watches shit happen. If he’s out wide, just lets crosses in. If he’s in the box, doesn’t have the ability to win the second ball. Dorgu at least gets about, presses the wide player wanting to cross, and wins tackles.
He had some good moments yesterday. Inconsistency is to be expected at this age but for a club our size, we can’t afford to have inconsistent players. We should have an experienced LWB ahead of Dorgu. He’s got the tools though, needs to put them all together.
Chronic lack of investment in those areas too.
Chronic lack of investment in those areas too.
If this is the level of technical ability he shows for the rest of the season I wouldn't mind seeing him being sold.
He's better than Dalot. Keep Dorgu, sell Dalot and sign a starter for the left.
I keep forgetting how young he is, so patience is required.
His defensive stats are pretty good. And he is really strong in the air which has become an important part of the game in the PL.
He is also good at progression. Just needs that little bit of composure in the attacking areas. Seems to choke when he is taking shots or playing the last ball.
He is also good at progression. Just needs that little bit of composure in the attacking areas. Seems to choke when he is taking shots or playing the last ball.
Yes, this kind of gamble is exactly what we need to be doing more of as our squad solidifies. Liverpool have shown this year the folly in chasing massively expensive 'Sure things'. The potential downside is huge. Wheras with clever punts on players like Dorgu you have huge upside and little down.
Agreed. The raw materials are there and he's still so young, plus adjusting to all the things that come with this club. I've liked what I've seen of him and as said above, think he's exactly the kind of gamble we need to take on ~£20-30m players. That so rarely buys you a guaranteed thing these days.
I find this take odd. He looks like a youth prospect that should have cost 5-10m and is really lacking on most fronts beyond the physical ones. Claiming it is a clever punt is completely deluded.
If we had found an extra 5-10m from somewhere we could have got ait nouri who is miles better suited. Instead we have someone that can't be trusted over dalot at lwb
The claim isn't that the specific signing of Dorgu is clever.
The strategy of going after several young players who are relatively inexpensive, on reasonable wages and who we can easily move on is a lot more 'clever' than massively overpaying on players like Antony, who still aren't a sure thing and are a nightmare to get rid of.
Ait-Nouri was £31.8 million guaranteed with £5.2 million in add ons, with a 5 year contract of £120,000 per week...6million a year. £37 million + £30million in wages.
Dorgu was £25.2 million guaranteed with £4.2 million in add ons, with a 5.5 year contract of £40,000 per week....2million a year. £29.4 million + £11million in wages.
United would have had to pay more (certainly in wages, probably on transfer) to get Ait-Nouri to join us over City, he's 3 years older than Dorgu and would expect to start every week...so while right now yeah...clearly Ait-Nouri would contribute more, it's not 'completely deluded' to invest in potential as part of a strategy that still includes transfers like Mbuemo and Cunha.
The nature of potential is that some make it, some don't. Dorgu may well not, but writing him off 3 months into his first full season is premature, and respectfully...quite thick.
Yeah thats been the issue mostly. He gets into great positions, either through his strengths of being able to get up and down a lot, or cos the opposition are happy for him to have it. but he just doesnt have the composure to do anything with it. Its usually hit against the first man or misplaced. You would hope that improves, but in terms of technical ability, I dont see it improving.
Would love to be proven wrong, but I dont see it with him long term.
I must be very biased against Dorgu. I just see a terrible, low skill, footballer. I must be wrong as people here are seeing more positives than I am. I'm not actually seeing a single positive. I will begin to look for more positive things in his play from now on, as I can't be right and everyone else on here wrong
Maybe we should have sold Evra and Vidic less than a year into their United careers, because trust me they were worse than Dorgu.
Listen I’m not saying he’s going to be really good, but maybe its too early to decide that he definitely is not? He was a 20 year old kid coming into a team that was massively struggling. Give him a chance at least.
Listen I’m not saying he’s going to be really good, but maybe its too early to decide that he definitely is not? He was a 20 year old kid coming into a team that was massively struggling. Give him a chance at least.
I think a lot of the positive comments are pretty delusional to be honest
Jesus wept, I am being called thick by someone who suggests a strategy that involves paying massively inflated prices for raw youngsters who have a high chance of not being upto Premier league standard is clever
I haven't said Dorgu couldn't come good but I just don't see that he will anytime soon
The positives are the fact that he is young, new to the league, country and this amount of pressure so he will either fail to improve or show some improvement (Usually in the 2nd season we find out). He is rapid, strong and is very physical, he get's into great positions, he progresses the ball with runs and wins a lot of aerial balls, this can all be backed up with stats, where he needs to improve is final ball, his technical ability and his passing range which I have faith he can improve on.
Marking and tackling are areas he needs to work on too. Looks a bit gangly at times and easy to beat.
He actually ranks very high on tackles completed for a full back, his movement is good but I'll correct myself and say his positioning is poor, his defensive positioning is poor but his attacking movement is very good I think.
I don't think it helps that the wingback in this system requires such athleticism to get up and down constantly, it's a hard role to play.
Not a fecking chance.
It’s wishcasting.
Those Vidic and Evra starts of their careers are the worst things that could have happened to this club, this will be repeated for the next 50 years.
I'm sure he wins plenty of the ball, particularly high up the pitch, but I think most wingers one on one with him out wide would fancy their chances of being able to run off him or beat him to get a cross/shot off at the moment. I think it's normal that he can improve that at his age though, particularly given he's played a fair bit as a winger in his career rather than a full back or wing back.