[The holy trinity 68]

We need wingers like Kvara, Olise, Diaz, Yamal, Vini, Doue, etc etc. Wingers who have actual creative talent when they get the ball to make something happen.

You mean players that play in leagues that give you all the time in the world on the bal, with terrible teams except the top 4 or 5?

 

[bosnian_red]

What makes people thing he'd be a good LB for us?

He looked rather poor as a LWB, hasn't really ever played as LB for us and had his best matches as LW

Why can't winger be his real position?

You can learn defensive positioning. His skillset suits it. He isn't talented enough to be a high level winger. To be a top club, your wingers need to be ridiculously talented. None of ours are talented enough for it IMO, but he's obviously behind Cunha, Amad and Mbeumo when it comes to natural talent & creativity. Those 3 are at least fine enough to be a top 5 level. Dorgu on the wing is just like a defensive hard worker option you put there when you want to shut something down and be more defensive, but that's not a long term solution for any success. Your 2 wingers in your front 3 should generally be your biggest threats.

 

[bosnian_red]

You mean players that play in leagues that give you all the time in the world on the bal, with terrible teams except the top 4 or 5?

I mean world class wingers who light it up in the CL?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I mean world class wingers who light it up in the CL?

Helps to be surrounded by other world class players, we only have one of them in the entire squad.

 

[Rozay]

Helps to be surrounded by other world class players, we only have one of them in the entire squad.

What exactly is the point that you are trying to make here? You’ve been shifting goalposts. Is it that Doue, Kvara, Vini, Olise are not significantly better forwards than Dorgu, they just have better teammates?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

What exactly is the point that you are trying to make here? You’ve been shifting goalposts. Is it that Doue, Kvara, Vini, Olise are not significantly better forwards than Dorgu, they just have better teammates?

Of course they are better but expecting any player to produce a similar level to them, in a tougher league and a worse team is unrealistic.

Olise was not exactly showing to be the best winger in the PL was he, as soon as he moves to the best team in an inferior league, he looks like a completely different player.

Shows that moving to a better team/best team in an inferior league can work wonders for players.

 

[MadMike]

None of ours are talented enough for it IMO, but he's obviously behind Cunha, Amad and Mbeumo when it comes to natural talent & creativity. Those 3 are at least fine enough to be a top 5 level.

Cunha and Mbeumo have had for more goals and more goal contributions this EPL season than Saka and Trossard for Arsenal. Arsenal are 1 game away from the EPL title and they are in the UCL final.

My point: I think those (and IMO Amad, but not based on this season) are good enough not just for top 5, but also for a title and UCL pusj. But the whole team has to be good enough and some players need to be exceptional. Those don't have to be the wingers. For Arsenal, their exceptional players are their CBs and their DM (Rice). Their wingers and their striker, are nothing special.

For us our special player is Bruno but we need at least 1, ideally 2 more.

 

[lex talionis]

At first I was skeptical of Dorgu, perhaps more than anything else disgust with Amorim's buffoonish wingback tactics, but once Carrick undid the damage Amorim left behind he unleashed Dorgu's power as a potential LW solution. Forget about the goal of the season candidate against Arsenal -- it was Dorgu's goal against City that blew me away. He beat the City to the ball and placed with shot with power and precision so much so that Donnarumma had no chance whatsoever. But beyond that his wing play was ridiculous for a player who really isn't silky or gifted with flair and although he has decent pace he's not a speed monster.

As for his rustiness in his two outings since his return from injury, it's to be expected. Yes, he should have scored yesterday but it was an understandable miss, not evidence of a structural weakness in his game.

Summer comes at a good time for him -- Denmark is out of the World Cup -- and I have no doubt he will be in beast mode in summer training with a little more time to put the hamstring problem in the rear view mirror.

 

[criticalanalysis]

His skillset.

A LWB is of course a halfway point between a left back and a left winger. In a system that has abolished wing backs - he’d need to try and find a home in one of the two roles. As a wing back - he showed very poor attacking quality for a year, and constantly found himself receiving the ball in dangerous positions and not demonstrating the quality to do anything with it. I think naturally, the observation would not be that he should be given greater attacking responsibility.

Regarding playing left back, it’s just simply easier to learn. It’s not that he’d necessarily shown himself to be a brilliant defender, however - he has attributes that could make him an effective left back in the modern game. He can run all day, he’s fairly quick, and has a good physique. Playing as a forward for a club of United’s level requires a high level of God-given talent, which to me - he clearly doesn’t have. He has not shown the footballing ability to say he can be relied upon to make a consistent attacking difference at the highest level of football.

Full back is simply somewhere players like him typically end up. More talented wingers like Young and Valencia ended up there eventually because they were simply not, or no longer, good enough to make regular attacking difference. Aaron Wan-Bissaka made the move earlier, as have several others, like Ashley Cole and Patrice Evra. The tools Dorgu DOES have offensively are good supplementary tools from an attacking perspective, but not enough to be the primary threat.

I don’t know why people have chosen to write off his year at wing back, which evidenced poor attacking quality in dangerous positions and explain it as him being ‘out of position’ or something, and then advocate for him to be in those same positions he continually fecked up. We’re asking him to do what top teams are asking of Doue, Kvara, Vini etc. I see him as a player like Frimpong at Liverpool, who is clearly never in a million years going to be good enough to simply be a Liverpool forward, despite him being a ‘can play there’. I’d be overjoyed if Liverpool genuinely considered him a key forward. Frimpong was bought as a right back, having played at wing back. He also played as a winger for Leverkusen at times. But he’s a long way from being a Liverpool winger, and they’d have never signed him to play as a winger. He’s very similar to Dorgu.

Good post, pretty much what I wanted to say.

I've long said he has the potential as a LB as far as last year when he was a WB for Amorim. He may develop further up the field and if he does, it would be incredible work from him and Carrick but the chances of him turning into Bale is less likely than him turning into a Mendes i.e a player profile that our squad desperately needs.

His role and development should be fairly 'straightforward' if we have a competent coach/plan. When defending, ask him to be positionally disciplined 15-20 yards to left of his LCB, stay goalside, keep his opposition player in front of him and then over/underlap with aplomb when we have the ball in controlled areas on the left flank. His base athleticism and dynamism off the ball can be a lethal weapon in these secondary phases. If we do indeed bring in some good midfielders this summer, then next season we would likely be controlling the ball more, which would result in more set defences, something that Dorgu doesn't really have experience or consistent results against. That's without mentioning that we already have Cunha, a player whilst trying his best to stay out wide, is naturally drifting infield a lot. It just makes too sense to help him with an outside threat on his shoulder.

 

[roseguy64]

His skillset.

A LWB is of course a halfway point between a left back and a left winger. In a system that has abolished wing backs - he’d need to try and find a home in one of the two roles. As a wing back - he showed very poor attacking quality for a year, and constantly found himself receiving the ball in dangerous positions and not demonstrating the quality to do anything with it. I think naturally, the observation would not be that he should be given greater attacking responsibility.

Regarding playing left back, it’s just simply easier to learn. It’s not that he’d necessarily shown himself to be a brilliant defender, however - he has attributes that could make him an effective left back in the modern game. He can run all day, he’s fairly quick, and has a good physique. Playing as a forward for a club of United’s level requires a high level of God-given talent, which to me - he clearly doesn’t have. He has not shown the footballing ability to say he can be relied upon to make a consistent attacking difference at the highest level of football.

Full back is simply somewhere players like him typically end up. More talented wingers like Young and Valencia ended up there eventually because they were simply not, or no longer, good enough to make regular attacking difference. Aaron Wan-Bissaka made the move earlier, as have several others, like Ashley Cole and Patrice Evra. The tools Dorgu DOES have offensively are good supplementary tools from an attacking perspective, but not enough to be the primary threat.

I don’t know why people have chosen to write off his year at wing back, which evidenced poor attacking quality in dangerous positions and explain it as him being ‘out of position’ or something, and then advocate for him to be in those same positions he continually fecked up. We’re asking him to do what top teams are asking of Doue, Kvara, Vini etc. I see him as a player like Frimpong at Liverpool, who is clearly never in a million years going to be good enough to simply be a Liverpool forward, despite him being a ‘can play there’. I’d be overjoyed if Liverpool genuinely considered him a key forward. Frimpong was bought as a right back, having played at wing back. He also played as a winger for Leverkusen at times. But he’s a long way from being a Liverpool winger, and they’d have never signed him to play as a winger. He’s very similar to Dorgu.

Exactly this. He doesn't have the talent levels offensively to play there consistently. You either have it or you don't.

My memory of Bale is clouded by his many injuries young to determine if he was showing this when he was a LB.

 

[roseguy64]

Of course they are better but expecting any player to produce a similar level to them, in a tougher league and a worse team is unrealistic.

Olise was not exactly showing to be the best winger in the PL was he, as soon as he moves to the best team in an inferior league, he looks like a completely different player.

Shows that moving to a better team/best team in an inferior league can work wonders for players.

Olise's technical skills were great in the Prem. He was balling along with Eze and Zaha.

 

[jem]

Olise's technical skills were great in the Prem. He was balling along with Eze and Zaha.

Yeah he always looked quality whenever I saw him. I do seem to remember him having fitness issues during his time at Crystal Palace (not that I trust my memory...)

 

[roseguy64]

Yeah he always looked quality whenever I saw him. I do seem to remember him having fitness issues during his time at Crystal Palace (not that I trust my memory...)

Yep. The Casemiro ref cam when Olise waltzed past him is a terrible memory for me.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Exactly this. He doesn't have the talent levels offensively to play there consistently. You either have it or you don't.

My memory of Bale is clouded by his many injuries young to determine if he was showing this when he was a LB.

I remember thinking he was very impressive when he first started for Spurs at LB before the injuries. IIRC he had a really good run of form with goals, assists and performances in his first 3-4 months. Great technique, ball carrying, crossing and game maturity for a young player.

Perhaps not 'oh he's a dead cert winger' but then I don't think anybody could have projected his development at that time.

 

[DRJosh]

He is a grafter in the guise of a Gary Neville type player (albeit in a different position) and that is what we need. Hope he regains his form next season after that injury

 

[Trigestis]

How are people putting him as good enough as a LW, but not as a LB? His skill set is perfectly suited for a marauding LB. Not even remotely close to the level of attacking quality we need from a LW.

 

[Offside]

Another one people have been bizarrely critical of. At this point it feels like some are just going through the motions. It’s been a long time since we’ve had a player with this kind of engine and physical ability. Before the injury he was showing real quality too, and he’s still incredibly young. The potential is massive.

 

[philippexyz]

How are people putting him as good enough as a LW, but not as a LB? His skill set is perfectly suited for a marauding LB. Not even remotely close to the level of attacking quality we need from a LW.

I'm confused about that as well(people considering him a winger). He's a LB for me, not a LW.

 

[SirScholes]

Another one people have been bizarrely critical of. At this point it feels like some are just going through the motions. It’s been a long time since we’ve had a player with this kind of engine and physical ability. Before the injury he was showing real quality too, and he’s still incredibly young. The potential is massive.

I mean he’s not very good on the ball which you should be if you’re a Man Utd winger

 

[Jotun]

I'm confused about that as well(people considering him a winger). He's a LB for me, not a LW.

I'm confused about that as well(people considering him a winger). He's a LB for me, not a LW.

Simple reason would be, he was pretty mid as a wingback and had a few good games as a winger.

From what I've seen, I think the reason why he was so effective as a winger was his physicality. We played mostly defensively in those games and he was used as an out ball, with his physicality he could dominate against opposing fullbacks. On the other hand, when he plays as a full back, his inconsistent technical ability can make him a liability, as full backs are now so important in beating the press.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Despite his lengthy lay off with the hamstring injury and much less playing time, the fact remains that he has actually produced more end product than Amad has all season.

3 goals vs 2 goals with the same pair of assists.

Hardly world scorching by either of them but Dorgu has shown he has the drive and importantly - the guts - to try and have a go, something that seems alarmingly lacking from Amad & Mbeumo in recent times.

Patrick Dorgu is a valuable squad player with some versatility. He should not be pigeon holed into the LB role when he has not even played there for United. The lad offers something further up the pitch, we have all seen it already, albeit in a relatively small sample size.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Olise's technical skills were great in the Prem. He was balling along with Eze and Zaha.

Not best in the world level though. Bundesliga and La Liga allow for more freedom and space. Most players look better over there.

 

[Rozay]

Simple reason would be, he was pretty mid as a wingback and had a few good games as a winger.

From what I've seen, I think the reason why he was so effective as a winger was his physicality. We played mostly defensively in those games and he was used as an out ball, with his physicality he could dominate against opposing fullbacks. On the other hand, when he plays as a full back, his inconsistent technical ability can make him a liability, as full backs are now so important in beating the press.

Do you think there is any valid reason why he is seemingly unable to contribute effectively in offensive areas when told ‘you are a wing back today’, but can do in the same areas if told ‘you are a winger today’?

I think the likelihood is that his 2 games as a left winger are being assessed with premature conclusivity.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Of course they are better but expecting any player to produce a similar level to them, in a tougher league and a worse team is unrealistic.

Olise was not exactly showing to be the best winger in the PL was he, as soon as he moves to the best team in an inferior league, he looks like a completely different player.

Shows that moving to a better team/best team in an inferior league can work wonders for players.

The conversation was about Dorgu not being good enough to be United's primary LW though. Olise in the PL showed way more than Dorgu in his technical ability going forward to the extent people on here wanted to sign him. Theres a reason why a team like Bayern signed him for an attacking role. The same would not happen with Dorgu, as much as I like him. He's better suited as an attacking LB for games against teams who are going to sit back. Everyone knows that having better players around you and playing in less competitive leagues can improve your play, but that doesn't mean a player like Dorgu is going to light things up if he was signed instead of Olise by Bayern.

 

[Mingus]

Do you think there is any valid reason why he is seemingly unable to contribute effectively in offensive areas when told ‘you are a wing back today’, but can do in the same areas if told ‘you are a winger today’?

I think the likelihood is that his 2 games as a left winger are being assessed with premature conclusivity.

He was incredible in pre-season at LWB but as soon as he got back to Old Trafford that all disappeared.

His 2 games at LW were against the best 2 teams in the league and it wasn't just his offensive abilities that were excellent but his workrate and defensive discipline was an integral part of the team's shape.

Losing him after the Arsenal game changed our shape and contributed to why we have looked less secure and less potent.

 

[Jotun]

Do you think there is any valid reason why he is seemingly unable to contribute effectively in offensive areas when told ‘you are a wing back today’, but can do in the same areas if told ‘you are a winger today’?

I think the likelihood is that his 2 games as a left winger are being assessed with premature conclusivity.

Maybe a bit of both? Maybe it's also the types of games we played. But it's very different playing as a wingback than as a winger. If we are defending deep and win the ball, if he is winger he is high on the pitch and can be used as an out ball, if he is tightly marked he can use his superior strength to win the physical duel and drive forward, if he is loosely marked than he can again use his pace to drive forward. As a wingback in those same situations he is very deep, almost in a backline and he would have to help the team progress forward by beating the press. Which is particularly difficult for a wingback as he is 1 vs 2. I don't think he's press resistant enough to do that consistently. He is capable of nice technical moments, like the combination with Bruno for his goal against Arsenal, I also remember his goal for Denmark NT (against low level opposition in a friendly) where he had a Zlatanesque run through the defence.

So to summarize, it could be that he had a good patch of form as a winger, above his level, it could be that those games suited him, it could also be that he might be effective but unorthodox winger (just like Park Ji-Sung was as an attacking midfielder). Also worth mentioning that he played as a (right) winger for Lecce a lot, but wasn't that great. I don't think he is a great permanent solution for a left winger spot, but I do think he is worth trying out as an option.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

The conversation was about Dorgu not being good enough to be United's primary LW though. Olise in the PL showed way more than Dorgu in his technical ability going forward to the extent people on here wanted to sign him. Theres a reason why a team like Bayern signed him for an attacking role. The same would not happen with Dorgu, as much as I like him. He's better suited as an attacking LB for games against teams who are going to sit back. Everyone knows that having better players around you and playing in less competitive leagues can improve your play, but that doesn't mean a player like Dorgu is going to light things up if he was signed instead of Olise by Bayern.

I know what the conversation was about, I was debating the guy that started using Vini, Kvara, Olise etc as the yardstick to be beat Dorgu with.

 

[Ali Dia]

Simple reason would be, he was pretty mid as a wingback and had a few good games as a winger.

From what I've seen, I think the reason why he was so effective as a winger was his physicality. We played mostly defensively in those games and he was used as an out ball, with his physicality he could dominate against opposing fullbacks. On the other hand, when he plays as a full back, his inconsistent technical ability can make him a liability, as full backs are now so important in beating the press.

He's very useful as a winger in a counterattacking setup. Against rest defences he could be a good option as a LB with a license to bomb on as much as he can. Both things can be right at the same time. I don't think he's good enough on the ball as LB in a counterattacking setup as he isn't technically nearly as good as Shaw who makes keeping the ball look like a stroll in the park but is quite poor getting forward beyond midfield and influencing the game

 

[Bright_Eyes]

I know what the conversation was about, I was debating the guy that started using Vini, Kvara, Olise etc as the yardstick to be beat Dorgu with.

His point was we need players of a higher calibre than Dorgu for the forward positions. All of those players are of a higher calibre, regardless of which league or team they play for. When he first mentioned those players, and responded with the league and teams they play for, it looked like you missed the point. It's not dissing Dorgu to say he's not in that tier of attacking players. League and team is mostly irrelevant in this discussion, unless you think they'd perform at a similar level to Dorgu in attack should they come to the PL. They're just better attacking players. That's the point. Bringing league/team into it made it sound like you're arguing that's what matters most.

 

[Zoo]

Positive display again. He makes things happen. The criticism this kid gets is baffling

 

[Godfather]

Looked a different player in the second half

 

[Borys]

Patrick Thorgu strikes again.

Not the most polished diamond out there but he's pure brute force and I love it.

 

[RedSky]

Is he ok again?

 

[Fortitude]

Exceptional today. Had Brighton on toast.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Positive display again. He makes things happen. The criticism this kid gets is baffling

Yeah, may never be the best technically or have the most composure but he has something in him that makes things happen with his pace, power and tenacity.

Always great to have in the squad.

 

[Shinjch]

He will be a problem for teams in that position.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Exceptional today. Had Brighton on toast.

Reminds me of Nunez at Liverpool.

Agent of chaos. He’s a different type of player to anything else we have. Good squad player.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Prime Bale in that second half.

 

[Isotope]

Finishing the game very strong. He just bring so much balance to the team.

 

[Ekeke]

Didnt take him long to get back into end product form as a winger. Its clear from the flicks and the assist that its his position. Dorgu and Cunha on the left are stronger options than Amad and Mbeumo on the right.