They should have spent all pre season training him as an attacking left back. Work on his defensive positional play and crossing.Should've moved him to LB and Shaw to CB. Shaw hasn't got the legs to get up and down anymore.
I think G/A per minutes doesn’t always equate to the quality of a player.And yet last season he was more productive than a bunch of them. Despite playing WB for half the season.
G/A per minutes played in the league last year (I've only bothered with the PL players so the comparison is more like for like):
Martinelli 215
Gakpo 229
Ngumoha 184
Harvey Barnes 245
Tel 268
Odebert 490
Garnacho 254
Dorgu 181
Sure, lots of those players listed are better than Dorgu. But some of this is just classic fan confirmation bias. When you watch one team week in week out, but don't watch other teams the same amount, you notice the flaws in your players much more, making it much easier to shit on your own. You see it across different club fan forums. For example, there's been plenty of Chelsea fans out there complaining that Garnacho can't control a ball and interchange consistently with their teammates in the final third, and that no club would swap their wingers out for him. Dorgu can be a very useful squad player. Doesn't mean he should be starting matches all the time, but he can be quite effective when he's on form.
I think G/A per minutes doesn’t always equate to the quality of a player.
Will Osula had the second best minutes per goal record in the league last season. I wouldn’t want to see him leading the line for Utd.
Dorgu will never be an effective, top level wide forward. He just doesn’t pass the eye test. More than happy to be proven wrong, but I can’t see it.
I think he could be good at full back, and ideally played as a wing back in a 3ATB.
Left wingers in famous front threes such as Rooney, Ronaldo Tevez, Bale, Benzema, Cristiano, Messi, Suarez Neymar. Dorgu will never hit the heights to be included in a functioning forward line.
Rashford came on yesterday, and just in moments, showed us what a standard left winger does. Dorgu is not it.
I know it’s not a stats driven opinion but I just can’t comprehend what people see in Dorgu as a left winger. Look at Tzolis against Coventry on Friday. Thats a proper left winger, productive and passes the eye test instantly. Dorgu couldn’t dream to produce that level of in game performance.
I’m usually a glass half full man on here, and I love sticking up for our players. But this here is too far. Dorgu starting as our left winger makes my soul bleed.
We should ideally be selling him to a team that exclusively play 3ATB, where he’d eventually thrive.
I do wonder whether we should just look to cash in sooner rather than later. I know he's popular with a lot of our fans but he would be one of our more saleable assets, and we could probably use that money to genuinely improve the team if the club only intend to use him as a winger. Amorim would probably want him at Milan and they've already spent a pretty penny on Goncalo Ramos this summer, maybe we'd be able to do a deal with them.
I think Dorgu's ceiling is always going to be that Ji-Sung Park type of player in the bigger games, and that's when it goes well. He's consistently struggled on the wing when we've played against low blocks. If we can't find another role for him in the team, there's little point in persisting with him. Even a half baked version of Rashford looked so much better than him yesterday.
I’m not saying Dorgu can never be effective from the left. He obviously can. In an open game, where there’s space to attack, his pace, power and movement can cause teams problems, that’s fair enough, I can admit that. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, a Denzel Dumfries type of player.Sure. But some of the payers you’ve listed don’t pass the eye test either. I was criticising Garnacho for years here for being a poor dribbler, poor passer, selfish, predictable, low IQ, weak.
The same sort of comments we’re seeing now we saw last season, and then for a patch Dorgu became one of our most effective players, winning us important games in the process. Not in a pretty way but in a direct, physical, busting to get into the box type runner - something we needed, something which added balance, and something we benefited from. Even after he came back from his injury he was the difference maker in that Brighton game - disrupting the opposition, linking play and getting a goal and an assist. He’s not a regular starter, but he’s still young and raw and he has proven he can be very effective in certain games.
I’ve been wanting to see what he can do at LB, and I’d have loved for us to have brought a winger like Tzolis in. But that hasn’t happened and in the wake of it the criticism of Dorgu after one single league game at the very start of the season where everyone looked shit is just way over the top in my opinion. And comparing him to some of the best forward lines we’ve ever seen is asinine - we know we’re miles off that, and it doesn’t mean he can’t be a useful player for us, as he was last season during a period when we got more points than any other team.
I also don’t understand your 3ATB claim - we’ve seen that with our own eyes and he was much worse there.
I agree really. If it was Chelsea they'd probably have been shopping him around a few clubs to extract maximum value before the window shuts. We lack that ruthlessness sometimes.For me, yes. If we add the left back that we are seeking, what exactly is his role in the squad? The option of him being seen as a LB will then be gone, and he’ll simply be exclusively seen as a player to compete with both Cunha and Rashford. While he can ‘do a job’ there - he’d have worked himself into a very expendable position for me. I don’t see the benefit of having a £40m asset in the squad to be either an emergency left back or an emergency winger. In our current situation, it makes little sense when we need to raise money.
But he often did well there last year? That’s why we’re doing it. It’s not just been made upPlaying Dorgu on the wing is like playing Dumfries in a front three. It’s madness.
He scored a couple of bangers but generally played poorly there.But he often did well there last year? That’s why we’re doing it. It’s not just been made up
I think people often forget just how young our squad is, Dorgu is 21He scored a couple of bangers but generally played poorly there.
Honestly, bearing in mind that a similarly aged top talent in Barcola is going for over £100m, what do you think we’d get if we sold Dorgu now? If the answer to that is less than £80m, then we should be asking ourselves why we think that is.
Sure. But some of the payers you’ve listed don’t pass the eye test either. I was criticising Garnacho for years here for being a poor dribbler, poor passer, selfish, predictable, low IQ, weak.
The same sort of comments we’re seeing now we saw last season, and then for a patch Dorgu became one of our most effective players, winning us important games in the process. Not in a pretty way but in a direct, physical, busting to get into the box type runner - something we needed, something which added balance, and something we benefited from. Even after he came back from his injury he was the difference maker in that Brighton game - disrupting the opposition, linking play and getting a goal and an assist. He’s not a regular starter, but he’s still young and raw and he has proven he can be very effective in certain games.
I’ve been wanting to see what he can do at LB, and I’d have loved for us to have brought a winger like Tzolis in. But that hasn’t happened and in the wake of it the criticism of Dorgu after one single league game at the very start of the season where everyone looked shit is just way over the top in my opinion. And comparing him to some of the best forward lines we’ve ever seen is asinine - we know we’re miles off that, and it doesn’t mean he can’t be a useful player for us, as he was last season during a period when we got more points than any other team.
I also don’t understand your 3ATB claim - we’ve seen that with our own eyes and he was much worse there.
It was the same with Rasmus. Fans extrapolate purple patches and use that as the players level, using 20% of games rather than the other 80%United fans love to cling to short patches of form and continually bring it up as evidence that the player/coach should be trusted. That 4 game run under LVG, Mason Mount's pre-season fitness, Dorgu's brief spell of attacking quality. That magical 0-1 loss to Arsenal at OT. Amorim's 3 match win streak. Rashford's purple patch under Ten Hag.
Consistency is king, most pros can have patches of incredible form, even in unfamiliar positions.
He’s 22 very soon. Think about Giggs in the 1995-96 season and that’s the same age as Dorgu is now. How about Ronaldo in 06-07? Even Rashford in 19/20? That’s the type of level I’d expect a 21/22 year old winger at United to be at.I think people often forget just how young our squad is, Dorgu is 21
Dorgu isn’t Barcola, but it doesn’t mean he’s not a threat. I agree he shouldn’t be our starting left mid but I think he could end up being quality. Let’s just chill
United fans love to cling to short patches of form and continually bring it up as evidence that the player/coach should be trusted. That 4 game run under LVG, Mason Mount's pre-season fitness, Dorgu's brief spell of attacking quality. That magical 0-1 loss to Arsenal at OT. Amorim's 3 match win streak. Rashford's purple patch under Ten Hag.
Consistency is king, most pros can have patches of incredible form, even in unfamiliar positions. We saw Alan Smith and Rooney look decent in CM for small patches but never were they good enough to play there permanently. I have always felt that Dorgu lacks the consistency of technique and cuteness to be a top level winger and that he should be moulded into a Hakimi type FB. He gets into good positions and has a lot of physical endeavour but I think he just looks so much more like an attacking FB than a quality winger. If we had Hakimi or Mendes we would probably put them as forwards as it seems that both the club and fans don't believe in FBs being of much use in attacking phases.
Dan James, is more apt. Eager and willing runner, fast, very loose with the ball but scores an occasional goal. James scored 4 in his first 4 starts ( I think).Models his game after Gareth Bale probably. At least that's his best bet for making it here, and he showed flickers of being able to until his injury. Seems to be a student of the game and paired with his physical attributes and positive, hardworking attitude, I hope to see him flourish with us, and if he maintains the rate of improvement we saw last season, he'll be borderline world class as a kick-and-rush winger.
We have some form of PTSD. Only in recent years have we been playing wingers who half the fans on here doubt can even play the position at all, let alone play it well. Top wingers were one of the hallmarks of United. He seems like a West Ham level player. To have a winger that we know wouldn't start for any other PL club is really saying something.I'm sorry but he wouldn't start for any of the other Premier League teams. A lot of collective copium rather than admit he's not good enough. He's the kind of player that would be backup at a Brentford or Palace.
Right now we'd be selling him "as is", instead of hoping he has some sort of run of form in a Cup or somehow finds his best position and raises his game.I do wonder whether we should just look to cash in sooner rather than later. I know he's popular with a lot of our fans but he would be one of our more saleable assets, and we could probably use that money to genuinely improve the team if the club only intend to use him as a winger. Amorim would probably want him at Milan and they've already spent a pretty penny on Goncalo Ramos this summer, maybe we'd be able to do a deal with them.
I think Dorgu's ceiling is always going to be that Ji-Sung Park type of player in the bigger games, and that's when it goes well. He's consistently struggled on the wing when we've played against low blocks. If we can't find another role for him in the team, there's little point in persisting with him. Even a half baked version of Rashford looked so much better than him yesterday.
I don't know what Carrick was thinking playing him centrally against Hull, either. He's nowhere near the level of a United winger of yore, and that does seem to be his best position. Not LB, and not whatever Carrick had him as yesterday. He kept switching side and central to flummox his markers, but they were not concerned at all. Carrick must see that desire/ability (?) to come play centrally as an asset. If this was at all in Carrick's plans why wasn't Dorgu played there in preseason?He’s 22 very soon. Think about Giggs in the 1995-96 season and that’s the same age as Dorgu is now. How about Ronaldo in 06-07? Even Rashford in 19/20? That’s the type of level I’d expect a 21/22 year old winger at United to be at.
Now you might say those were some of the best players in the world but we are Manchester United. That’s exactly the level of player we should have as “prospects” on the wings. No other top club would be making do with someone like Dorgu and no top club would be buying him if we decided to sell.
This pretty much sums it up for me.If Dorgu wasn’t already here and United were looking to sign a LW this summer, would you seriously want us targeting Patrick Dorgu for that role? Not a chance.
I’m not saying Dorgu can never be effective from the left. He obviously can. In an open game, where there’s space to attack, his pace, power and movement can cause teams problems, that’s fair enough, I can admit that. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, a Denzel Dumfries type of player.
My point is that I don’t think he has the technical level to be a genuine LW option for a team trying to become elite.
Against low blocks, when you actually need your winger to receive in tight areas, beat a man, combine, create and consistently use the ball well, I think his limitations are obvious.
If Dorgu wasn’t already here and United were looking to sign a LW this summer, would you seriously want us targeting Patrick Dorgu for that role? Not a chance.
Is he a useful player? I guess so, he is. Should he be one of our actual starting/back-up LW options if we’re trying to become a top team? Not for me. Not really, ever. We aren’t a serious club if he is a serious option in the front three.
Honestly I never saw him as much of a wing back either. A key attribute for a wing back is being able to carry the ball effectively, dorgu is pretty much incapable of running with the ball let alone dribbling past players. He's being used on the wing for now but I have 0 doubt that he will eventually be a left back. He just doesn't have it in him to regularly take up any creative position for a big club.Dorgu was brought in under Amorim as a LWB and he fits that role the best - not very solid defensively to be a LB in a back 4 and lacking the skills needed for an attacking forward. I can see him becoming a utility player for us but in all reality we need a replacement for Shaw and a replacement LW
He is not a Premier League standard winger. He never will be.
His technical level is on the floor. In a terrible first half from all, he stood out like a sore thumb in terms of not being at the level. First touch, interplay, close control, decision making. All shit.
His ceiling is Denzel Dumfries, a marauding full back/wing back. He should never play in the forward line ever again.
Should've moved him to LB and Shaw to CB. Shaw hasn't got the legs to get up and down anymore.
Whoever told him that he can become a Man Utd level winger was lying to him. He just hasn't got it and should focus on being a fullback.
Yes Yes Yes and yesI'm quite annoyed that Carrick hasn't tried him as a left back once throughout pre season, especially as we have options such as Cunha and Rashford out wide.
The fact that he's never played there under Carrick must say something though. Not even in pre-season.Yes Yes Yes and yes
Can we please stop this stupid experiment and turn this guy into the marauding full back he was born to be?
He very clearly is not a defender. That is the obvious reason. Lets not amorim him into a position because of our own needs.Yes Yes Yes and yes
Can we please stop this stupid experiment and turn this guy into the marauding full back he was born to be?
He’s not quite Adama Traore! He’s still a young player, don’t think he’s going to be a top player, but he has his uses."God, please create a footballer with bags of pace and power but literally feck all else"
God: "As you wish..."
Positioning and attitude is good too. Otherwise he wouldn’t have such a solid goal threat. Technically hit and miss for sure."God, please create a footballer with bags of pace and power but literally feck all else"
God: "As you wish..."
Snap! Just made the same point above.He's good, just play him at left back.
Valencia, Young, Milner + god knows the number of players Guardiola has converted to fullbacks, yet we don't think we can develop a 21yo with his attributes as one because he once had a fecking bad game against Brighton 2 years ago.
