Pau Torres

Adam-Utd

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As far as I'm aware the main reason for having a left footed LCB and a right footed RCB is how it changes how you can play from the when the CBs split in possession. So if we were to sign someone like Torres whose primary strength seems to be ability on the ball anyway, I would imagine that's the driving benefit they have in mind.
Yeah usually you'd prefer a Left on the left and a right on the right like Stones/Dias.

Maguire though seems to be more comfortable on the left side and then dribbling inside with his right foot, or turning out and hitting a cross field pass to the right.

Whether he'd be able to do this as effectively from the right side? hard to tell without seeing him play there. I don't ever remember him on the RCB slot though.
 

Adam-Utd

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Both of them are right footed actually.
Ah i'm thinking of Laporte.

That sort of proves that it's not so important anyway, Chelsea also have 2 right footers in defence. While having a left footer is nice it isn't worth using a worse defender for it.
 

dinostar77

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Apparently botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season. Pau Torres isnt the most physical of defenders which immediately makes me think he will be a Spainish lindelof which is exactly what we dont need.
 

Scholsey2004

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Apparently botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season. Pau Torres isnt the most physical of defenders which immediately makes me think he will be a Spainish lindelof which is exactly what we dont need.
Botman is just 21 as well. Ive definitely swung towards him over any of the others we've been linked with. We're obviously putting together a young team for longevity and Botman would certainly add to that. Hes a good height as well and is already decent in the air. Plus hes left footed.
 

theklr

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Apparently botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season. Pau Torres isnt the most physical of defenders which immediately makes me think he will be a Spainish lindelof which is exactly what we dont need.

Well, he does play in a less competative league .
 

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A very reliable source for Villarreal apparently
 

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Apparently botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season. Pau Torres isnt the most physical of defenders which immediately makes me think he will be a Spainish lindelof which is exactly what we dont need.
Because there is only two types of centre backs? Lindelof and not Lindelof?
 

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If he is our first choice and has a release clause we're willing to meet then presumably this would be a fairly quick transfer to get done.
 

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Ah i'm thinking of Laporte.

That sort of proves that it's not so important anyway, Chelsea also have 2 right footers in defence. While having a left footer is nice it isn't worth using a worse defender for it.
Especially when Maguire has played on the left all his career pretty much
 

sullydnl

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Apparently botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season. Pau Torres isnt the most physical of defenders which immediately makes me think he will be a Spainish lindelof which is exactly what we dont need.
Side note but I was reading a series of blog posts the other day on how not to use stats in football. This is what they said on defensive stats:

You often see defenders’ individual stats bandied about like badges of honour after games, but in truth, they don’t really mean much. Defensive stats such as tackles or interceptions made are often a better indicator of a defender’s style rather than their actually quality. Mark (@ETNAR_uk) has done a tonne of work on evaluating defenders using statistics and he hasn’t really been able to find defensive statistics that correlate well with how good he thinks defenders are at preventing shots.

This leads on to another point about individual statistics, which is that they’re often more a description of style than anything else. Take dribbling for example. If a player X dribbles twice as much as a player Y, does that make him a better player? Not really. Maybe he’s a better dribbler? Maybe the other player has a style of play that revolves more around passing than moving with the ball? Even then, you should still try to break these statistics down to percentage success rates to try to work out which player is a better dribbler. Does player X or player Y bypass more players on average when dribbling? You can almost always go into more detail and context, and it’s important to do so.

For individual defensive stats such as tackles made and interceptions, it’s also helpful to try and adjust them based on the player’s side’s possession, as Ted Knutson explains in this piece:

“If your team has possession of the ball, you can’t rack up defensive rate stats. Teams that have a ton of possession don’t give their opponent the ball very often, and thus can’t accumulate defensive stats. What do you do when you know the basic rate stats are meaningless? You adjust them.”

I think there's a lot of truth in that. I would be deeply sceptical of any direct statistical comparisons between defenders unless the person making the comparison is able to adjust for those teams' styles of play or provide context with deeper analysis. Yet I see people posting raw stats comparisons all the time, as if higher numbers automatically mean a player is better.
 

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Side note but I was reading a series of blog posts the other day on how not to use stats in football. This is what they said on defensive stats:


I think there's a lot of truth in that. I would be deeply sceptical of any direct statistical comparisons between defenders unless the person making the comparison is able to adjust for those teams' styles of play or provide context with deeper analysis. Yet I see people posting raw stats comparisons all the time, as if higher numbers automatically mean a player is better.
That goes with what he's saying though. He doesnt like Lindelof's style and Torres' stats suggest he is similar. Of course it tells you what their style is
 

bond19821982

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We aren't paying for Sancho and Torres. Think it's just a ploy to make him nervous before the final.
 

sullydnl

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That goes with what he's saying though. He doesnt like Lindelof's style and Torres' stats suggest he is similar. Of course it tells you what their style is
Oh I was responding to the "Botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season" part rather than the rest. As in I'm not sure what having the best stats even means in this context and even if he did have them, I'm not sure what that would tell us about his quality as a defender.

The stylistic comparison between Lindelof and Torres I agree with just from the bit I've actually seen of the latter.
 

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Oh I was responding to the "Botman has the best stats of any CB in europe this season" part rather than the rest. As in I'm not sure what having the best stats even means in this context and even if he did have them, I'm not sure what that would tell us about his quality as a defender.

The stylistic comparison between Lindelof and Torres I agree with just from the bit I've actually seen of the latter.
Ah I see what you mean now
 

charlenefan

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Feels like this is one of those where we have a few irons in the fire, Varane, Kounde, Torres and if we can't get our first choice from them we'll move onto the second choice and so on
 

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Feels like this is one of those where we have a few irons in the fire, Varane, Kounde, Torres and if we can't get our first choice from them we'll move onto the second choice and so on
Whats interesting about that list is that they are 3 very different CB’s but they all complement Maguire in different aspects.
 

sullydnl

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Feels like this is one of those where we have a few irons in the fire, Varane, Kounde, Torres and if we can't get our first choice from them we'll move onto the second choice and so on
Makes me wonder if despite someone like Torres having a release clause, this is an area that will be on the back-burner until other positions (most notably attack) have been dealt with. I'm assuming the likes of Varane, Kounde and Torres will all be available at slightly different prices, so it may be that we don't move until we know what we can afford in relation to other signings this summer.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Dunno if its another part of the pod or what, but here is a slightly different translation:


Not from that one, but the RC is around £50M I think
He strikes me as someone that likes where he is and wouldn't jump at the slightest opportunity for a big move.
 

theklr

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Makes me wonder if despite someone like Torres having a release clause, this is an area that will be on the back-burner until other positions (most notably attack) have been dealt with. I'm assuming the likes of Varane, Kounde and Torres will all be available at slightly different prices, so it may be that we don't move until we know what we can afford in relation to other signings this summer.
Fabrizio said the same thing on united stand, we know Pau’s and Kounde’s RC’s , but we need to know A) how much we are spending on Sancho and B) if Varane will be available and for what price , until we do a move.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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Botman is just 21 as well. Ive definitely swung towards him over any of the others we've been linked with. We're obviously putting together a young team for longevity and Botman would certainly add to that. Hes a good height as well and is already decent in the air. Plus hes left footed.
Botman plays in a low block with Lille. This really suits him but is not how we would expect to play. From what I've read up on him, he got really exposed for Dutch U21s when he had a lot more space to cover. He's not particularly fast by all accounts.

Personally, I'm back on the Benoit Badiashile bandwagon. He's an absolute unit but seems to also be quite elegant on the ball. Has great progressive passing and carrying and is very strong in the air to give Maguire a bit of help at set pieces. Maguire would be able to move over to that right side of CB where we're so aerially vulnerable with Lindelof and AWB and which opposition teams have been targeting.
 
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When people say he's the same "style" as Lindelof, do they mean he has the same physical weaknesses or do they just mean he's generally not that aggressive in his approach?

I'm not too focused on finding someone who is ultra aggressive, we just need someone better. To me the major weakness of the Maguire/Lindelof partnership is Lindelof's lack of physical/aerial dominance and the lack of pace they both suffer from. A player with pace who can snuff out balls in behind and in the channels would be ideal to complement Maguire, and an upgrade on Lindelof in terms of aerial dominance would also be ideal. Torres does seem to have a signficant height and pace advantage over Lindelof it seems so in that case I can see why we'd be interested, whether that actually translates to the physical dominance we're looking for I'm not sure as I've not seen enough of him.
 

bond19821982

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Watched him today- yeah kind of just one match. And if someone asks me to tell about his performances

Was decent on the ball, calm and composed. Would be a huge upgrade on Bailly. But not exactly a physical defender. Basically not a huge upgrade on Lindelof. Seemed like he is bit taller than Lindelof.

Think for the price we can do better.
 

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Not commanding defender for sure, not the Vidic type (well who is), more excited about Varanae and Kounde
 

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Not commanding defender for sure, not the Vidic type (well who is), more excited about Varanae and Kounde
We're surely after a Ferdinand rather than a Vidic? I don't see 5ft 10 Kounde being a big physical upgrade on Lindelof to be honest..
 

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Not commanding defender for sure, not the Vidic type (well who is), more excited about Varanae and Kounde
Varane is actually quite passive too, by the way.
 

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We're surely after a Ferdinand rather than a Vidic? I don't see 5ft 10 Kounde being a big physical upgrade on Lindelof to be honest..
Yes his size may be an issue against the like of Burnley and 3 -4 others, however in C1, and against 2/3 of the Premier League it wont be much an issue. Also what i meant with "being aggressive" is to be strong on tackles, able and willing to anticipate, push up the pitch, being rapid. Those are attributes Victor doesn't have at all, from what i have seen Torres doesnt have either (he looks faster though).
 

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Yes his size may be an issue against the like of Burnley and 3 -4 others, however in C1, and against 2/3 of the Premier League it wont be much an issue. Also what i meant with "being aggressive" is to be strong on tackles, able and willing to anticipate, push up the pitch, being rapid. Those are attributes Victor doesn't have at all, from what i have seen Torres doesnt have either (he looks faster though).
If you want to compliment Maguire, you need someone who don’t push too much as that is Maguire’s strength. Varane is imo that style, just like Lindelof. Torres also seem to be that kind. On the other hand we need someone who can replace Maguire to rotate him and be backup when he’s injured. None of Torres or Varane is an upgrade aerially.

Even though Varane has declined a little I believe he would walk straight in to the starting xi, while Torres would have to work his way in but pass Bailly in picking order.
Getting a CB from la Liga is a risk, I would prefer one from the PL.
 

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Botman plays in a low block with Lille. This really suits him but is not how we would expect to play. From what I've read up on him, he got really exposed for Dutch U21s when he had a lot more space to cover. He's not particularly fast by all accounts.

Personally, I'm back on the Benoit Badiashile bandwagon. He's an absolute unit but seems to also be quite elegant on the ball. Has great progressive passing and carrying and is very strong in the air to give Maguire a bit of help at set pieces. Maguire would be able to move over to that right side of CB where we're so aerially vulnerable with Lindelof and AWB and which opposition teams have been targeting.
How has he progressed this season?
 

Bojan Djordjic

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How has he progressed this season?
He seems to have had a very good season after being criticised by his own fans early in the season. He beat out Saka to be the U21 player in the top five leagues with the most minutes and is pretty much an ever-present for Monaco. I know its not the most insightful stat but for a 19 year old to be playing week in week out for a title challenger says a lot. He's also been selected for the French U21s which is genuinely one of the most impressive under age squads I've ever seen and could probably challenge for a senior Euros themselves if they had a decent coach.
 

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He’s got about 6 midfielders defending 5 yards ahead of him. This is nothing the likes of Tarkowski or Dunk wouldn’t do against us in the league in tetchy away games
 

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Pretty damn good today. Particularly given most of his strengths don't lie in being parked in front of his goal absorbing pressure.

So much so that I absolutely won't be put off if he, say, smashes an own goal into the roof of his net.