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roonster09

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I disagree that Kante's attacking game is poor. Obviously it's outweighed by his defensive game, but it's certainly good enough that he can join attacks and contribute positively whilst scoring the odd goal. Pogba's defensive game is so inexistent it makes him a liability defensively. Pogba is better going forward, but he's still not exactly good enough to compensate for the inadequacies in other aspects of his game. He's not the kind of player to whom you say "you just stay up top and don't worry about getting back because you provide so much magic and so many goals and assists."

He's a central midfielder. In my opinion his all around game is nowhere near good enough to put him amongst the world's best in that position. He's a bit of an anomaly. He isn't quite good enough at his main strength to justify the team carrying him, and his inability to do other sides of the game that a central midfielder generally does stop him from being incredibly influential in games. He should be developing the other sides of his game to make himself more complete. He doesn't seem to be doing this. It appears to me that his attitude is "this is what I'm good at, if you ask me to do the other stuff I'll do it but I'll do it badly as I'm not good at it."

I don't think he'll ever be the star player of a top club, nor be indispensable. If we're happy to say we overpaid and expected too much for him and therefor lower expectations, then fine. But I'm not willing to accept that he's some misused superstar who would be starring in a different team.
Team carrying him? Or he is carrying his midfield partner as they can't pass the ball for more than 10 yards.

He was star player of a top club before he moved to ManUtd. Yes, at Juventus he was star player. Their most important? Don't think any midfielder was the most important player of any team, usually it's the attackers.
 

Jeppers7

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While I find his attitude questionable at times, especially when the game isn’t going his way, how he’s being used this season is wrong.

Great player, but he needs two better central midfielders around him so he can do things he’s good at, rather than having to do a lot of things he’s not so great at.
Bingo
 

roonster09

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Pretty much and if people don't want that type of midfielders it should be totally fine, they just don't need to make up some nonsense argument. Pogba has never been a complete midfielder, he has never been a game manager that plays it simple and make things tick. He is a player that can provide a spark at any moment and he does it often enough, I said it before and I will always say it, Pogba is the definition of a luxury player. I don't say it as a criticism because I like these players but they are not the backbone of your team, they are the difference between a good and a great team while having little effect on a poor team.

The issue with that type of players is that they rely a lot on their teammates to exploit what they create which requires a certain level of ability. And sometimes it simply doesn't work, just look at Veron or a better playmaker like Riquelme.
Exactly. What I don't understand is, how can anyone watch him play and don't see his strengths and what kind of player he is.

People think "pogba thinks he is too good to do defensive work", the way I see it, he just lacks the awareness and always few steps late. It doesn't come naturally for him as he is attack oriented player.

Like I said, people expect him to be the player he isn't and never will be and then use that as a baseline to criticize him.
 

Jeppers7

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[QUOTE="Jimmy_Bond, post: 24663648, member: 118332"]I disagree that Kante's attacking game is poor. Obviously it's outweighed by his defensive game, but it's certainly good enough that he can join attacks and contribute positively whilst scoring the odd goal. Pogba's defensive game is so inexistent it makes him a liability defensively. Pogba is better going forward, but he's still not exactly good enough to compensate for the inadequacies in other aspects of his game. He's not the kind of player to whom you say "you just stay up top and don't worry about getting back because you provide so much magic and so many goals and assists."

He's a central midfielder. In my opinion his all around game is nowhere near good enough to put him amongst the world's best in that position. He's a bit of an anomaly. He isn't quite good enough at his main strength to justify the team carrying him, and his inability to do other sides of the game that a central midfielder generally does stop him from being incredibly influential in games. He should be developing the other sides of his game to make himself more complete. He doesn't seem to be doing this. It appears to me that his attitude is "this is what I'm good at, if you ask me to do the other stuff I'll do it but I'll do it badly as I'm not good at it."

I don't think he'll ever be the star player of a top club, nor be indispensable. If we're happy to say we overpaid and expected too much for him and therefor lower expectations, then fine. But I'm not willing to accept that he's some misused superstar who would be starring in a different team.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

His attacking game is no better than Pogba's defensive game, because as much as you won't like to see it, Pogba does contribute defensively.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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Team carrying him? Or he is carrying his midfield partner as they can't pass the ball for more than 10 yards.

He was star player of a top club before he moved to ManUtd. Yes, at Juventus he was star player. Their most important? Don't think any midfielder was the most important player of any team, usually it's the attackers.
No he wasn't.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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[QUOTE="Jimmy_Bond, post: 24663648, member: 118332"]

His attacking game is no better than Pogba's defensive game, because as much as you won't like to see it, Pogba does contribute defensively.
Thanks for the input!
 

Cassidy

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:rolleyes:

His attacking game is no better than Pogba's defensive game, because as much as you won't like to see it, Pogba does contribute defensively.
This is quite true, his defensive stats are better than our so called defensive midfielder :lol:
They are not great though but we would look much better with an actual DM
 

Jimmy_Bond

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He was, along with Dybala.
I'd say Pirlo personally, but again, game of opinions. I'm a bit bored of going around in circles now. We have different opinions on the player. That's fine. I'm sure we both share the hope that his performances improve, and if he does leave in the summer, he leaves on a high.
 

izzydiggler

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So he isn't scoring as many as goal scoring wide forwards/attacking mids.

Since Pogba moved to PL, he played 96 games, same as KdB. Pogba contributed to 49 goals, KdB contributed to 58 goals. One played for by far the best team in the league and other played for defensive managers.

KdB played for a team with so many players making runs all the game and Pogba played in a static team. Also KdB played as attacking midfielder, Pogba played as deeper midfielder.

He isn't midfield general, he is creative mid who creates chances. Not as good as KdB but there aren't many better than him.
The only thing you need to do is watch De Bruyne and Pogba play. One is clearly world class...the other I and many others would say absolutely not.

Pogba doesn't even stand out against Wolves, Southampton, Palace, Huddersfield and Cardiff...to compare him in any way to De Bruyne is just wrong.

But it's his team mates, he needs several world class players around him to look good, he tries too hard, it's the manager...now it's another manager...blah, blah, blah.
 

roonster09

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I'd say Pirlo personally, but again, game of opinions. I'm a bit bored of going around in circles now. We have different opinions on the player. That's fine. I'm sure we both share the hope that his performances improve, and if he does leave in the summer, he leaves on a high.
Pirlo wasn't even playing for Juventus in 2015-16 season. Pogba and Dybala made Serie A team of the season among their midfielders and attackers.
 

roonster09

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The only thing you need to do is watch De Bruyne and Pogba play. One is clearly world class...the other I and many others would say absolutely not.

Pogba doesn't even stand out against Wolves, Southampton, Palace, Huddersfield and Cardiff...to compare him in any way to De Bruyne is just wrong.

But it's his team mates, he needs several world class players around him to look good, he tries too hard, it's the manager...now it's another manager...blah, blah, blah.
Sure, for the first time I will watch Pogba and KdB play :lol:
 

abdo99

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The only thing you need to do is watch De Bruyne and Pogba play. One is clearly world class...the other I and many others would say absolutely not.

Pogba doesn't even stand out against Wolves, Southampton, Palace, Huddersfield and Cardiff...to compare him in any way to De Bruyne is just wrong.

But it's his team mates, he needs several world class players around him to look good, he tries too hard, it's the manager...now it's another manager...blah, blah, blah.
That's not what world class means. World Class are all players that can play for any team in the world. If Pogba wants to leave he will have the pick of the biggest clubs to choose from. After Eden Hazard left Pogba is the only World Class player left in a mediocre team and in the whole world.
 
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Adam-Utd

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Ugh, it's enough to bang your head against the wall.


The only thing you need to do is watch De Bruyne and Pogba play. One is clearly world class...the other I and many others would say absolutely not.

Pogba doesn't even stand out against Wolves, Southampton, Palace, Huddersfield and Cardiff...to compare him in any way to De Bruyne is just wrong.

But it's his team mates, he needs several world class players around him to look good, he tries too hard, it's the manager...now it's another manager...blah, blah, blah.
:boring: stupid statements like this are what completely ruin your arguement.
 

fergiesarmy1

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So he isn't scoring as many as goal scoring wide forwards/attacking mids.

Since Pogba moved to PL, he played 96 games, same as KdB. Pogba contributed to 49 goals, KdB contributed to 58 goals. One played for by far the best team in the league and other played for defensive managers.

KdB played for a team with so many players making runs all the game and Pogba played in a static team. Also KdB played as attacking midfielder, Pogba played as deeper midfielder.

He isn't midfield general, he is creative mid who creates chances. Not as good as KdB but there aren't many better than him.
So we are in agreement Pogba isn’t suited playing here.
 

Yagami

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It’s you guys that brought in comparison to other midfielders (that apparently have to play the exact same position which is ridiculous as Pogba has played many positions and most of them not very well)

My argument is simple 5 goals from open play (4 1/2 if we are counting rebounding a shit penalty) and 9 assists in a season for a £100 million pound player is not impressive in the slightest to me. To carry off the circus he brings to town he needs to be doing a lot more than that to justify it all.

He doesn't bring a circus, though.

The weirdos who have a problem with his lifestyle are their own problem.
 

Hawks2008

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Going by some comments it seems some would rather a limited clogger than Paul Pogba.

As long as they do the headless chicken act and have some pashun eh?
 

Coops73

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Looking forward to his next interview while on international duty.
 

Twingatz

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Pretty much and if people don't want that type of midfielders it should be totally fine, they just don't need to make up some nonsense argument. Pogba has never been a complete midfielder, he has never been a game manager that plays it simple and make things tick. He is a player that can provide a spark at any moment and he does it often enough, I said it before and I will always say it, Pogba is the definition of a luxury player. I don't say it as a criticism because I like these players but they are not the backbone of your team, they are the difference between a good and a great team while having little effect on a poor team.

The issue with that type of players is that they rely a lot on their teammates to exploit what they create which requires a certain level of ability. And sometimes it simply doesn't work, just look at Veron or a better playmaker like Riquelme.

This. I feel that people don't realize his role with France and with Juventus and the reason why Real want him. He adds quality to a team that already has quality. He is not a player that is going to fix problems in a struggling team like ours.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Looking forward to his next interview while on international duty.
He’s pulled a sicky so his brother has already stepped up with some more crap saying he is going to have put some effort in or something now....
 

fergiesarmy1

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He doesn't bring a circus, though.

The weirdos who have a problem with his lifestyle are their own problem.
Just his brother in the press last couple of days, I’m sure his agent is priming something up to destabilise things for the next window.

If he wasn’t injured I’m sure we would have got some misinterpreted crap out of him.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Well you say that, but he was one of our 3 best players last season.
I would expect the worlds most expensive midfielder to be at least in that bracket as he is so good and the rest are crap according to Pogba’s army of admirers.
 

GM K

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Like I said before, four seasons after, we are still here debating where Pogba should play, which tactics will best fit him and who should play or not play with him. That says it all.
 

Posh Red

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Like I said before, four seasons after, we are still here debating where Pogba should play, which tactics will best fit him and who should play or not play with him. That says it all.
We have the same debate about a few of our players though. Rashford, Martial, Lingard etc. I’d say it says more about the way the team has been managed rather than individual players.
 

In Rainbows

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Or someone that can help the team more than Pogba does especially as they are just dragging him down to their level apparently.
Nah, I would rather not have a 1 man midfield, and instead build up an entire midfield worth of class players. I don't want 1 midfielder to carry the midfield, it's such an odd view. Who does that?
 

fergiesarmy1

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Nah, I would rather not have a 1 man midfield, and instead build up an entire midfield worth of class players. I don't want 1 midfielder to carry the midfield, it's such an odd view. Who does that?
Just people that don’t believe Pogba is the solution and also what’s the point in building around him when he is 99% going to leave in the summer.
 

In Rainbows

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Just people that don’t believe Pogba is the solution and also what’s the point in building around him when he is 99% going to leave in the summer.
Except it's not building around him, just like for example buying a RW isn't building around AWB, or buying Maguire isn't building around Lindelof.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Except it's not building around him, just like for example buying a RW isn't building around AWB, or buying Maguire isn't building around Lindelof.
You’ve lost me? The arguments I keep seeing is we need to strengthen around Pogba but what is the point of planning on that. It’s like planning the wedding for the bird you already know is cheating on you.
 

romufc

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You’ve lost me? The arguments I keep seeing is we need to strengthen around Pogba but what is the point of planning on that. It’s like planning the wedding for the bird you already know is cheating on you.
This. Why would you sign someone to unleash Pogba when he will most likely leave next summer.

We need to build a midfield that compliments our attack and defence. Ole needs to figure out a style of Midfield.

We cannot compare to City and Pool because they play 4-3-3 and we play 4-2-3-1.

Ideally we would sign a CM and CAM next summer with McT