[Classical Mechanic]

Some of the stats in that article is just brilliant,

It's just levels of clickbait bullcrap.

Mentions the top 5 leagues this season when Italy have only played 2 games, Germany and Spain 3 as opposed to England's 4. Kind of explains why all these ;amazing ball winners; play in England.

Frames him as a 'ball winner' when half of the players that are supposed 'ball winners' are DLPs, I'm assuming what they mean is 'ball recoveries' where other players let the playmaker pick up the loose balls for obvious reasons.

Compares his possession losses with attacking players when he's been playing at the base of midfield where not losing the ball is crucially important!

Like Ole, Pogba had an amazing record straight after Mourinho left. The time for dining out on that is quite over I'm sure we'll all agree.

Quite a piece of work.

 

[roonster09]

It's just levels of clickbait bullcrap.

Mentions the top 5 leagues this season when Italy have only played 2 games, Germany and Spain 3 as opposed to England's 4. Kind of explains why all these ;amazing ball winners; play in England.

Frames him as a 'ball winner' when half of the players that are supposed 'ball winners' are DLPs, I'm assuming what they mean is 'ball recoveries' where other players let the playmaker pick up the loose balls for obvious reasons.

Compares his possession losses with attacking players when he's been playing at the base of midfield where not losing the ball is crucially important!

Like Ole, Pogba had an amazing record straight after Mourinho left. The time for dining out on that is quite over I'm sure we'll all agree.

Quite a piece of work.

It works both ways. Even though he plays in deeper positions, he is always compared with more attacking players, who plays in a team who are camped in opposition final third.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It works both ways. Even though he plays in deeper positions, he is always compared with more attacking players, who plays in a team who are camped in opposition final third.

It doesn't work both ways in that article, its hyperbolic clickbait nonsense because Pogba and United drive traffic.

 

[roonster09]

It doesn't work both ways in that article, its hyperbolic clickbait nonsense because Pogba and United drive traffic.

I said it work both ways in general when Pogba is always compared to attacking players when he plays deeper role.

Also article didn't say anything like ball winner, it says he won possession, which he did. It didn't say anything like he won xyz tackles, it clearly stated he won possession.

Pogba has won possession in the midfield third for Manchester United more times (27) than any other player in Europe's top five leagues season, with Jorginho (26) and Jefferson Lerma (23) the next best.

And it's not just the middle of the park where Pogba is dominant. In the Premier League, only Lerma has won possession back more times (41) all over the field than Pogba (40), who is also ahead of players such as Jorginho, Lewis Dunk (both 39), Ruben Neves (33) and Victor Lindelof (32).

So it's fine to compare his attacking contribution with attacking players even though he plays in deeper role but it's clickbait and hyperbole when he is compared with attackers when it comes to possession loss.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I said it work both ways in general when Pogba is always compared to attacking players when he plays deeper role.

Also article didn't say anything like ball winner, it says he won possession, which he did. It didn't say anything like he won xyz tackles, it clearly stated he won possession.

So it's fine to compare his attacking contribution with attacking players even though he plays in deeper role but it's clickbait and hyperbole when he is compared with attackers when it comes to possession loss.

The tweet for the article proclaims him as the 'best ball winner in Europe' and it mentions the top 5 leagues when all but the weakest of those leagues have played less games than England. His numbers are higher by playing significantly more minutes than the vast majority of all the players he's supposed to be a better 'ball winner' than.

How is this possession won stat measured? I'm guessing it's ball recoveries which is just picking up loose balls, notice how two of his peers are DLPs and none are players you would understand as 'ball winners'. I don't feel this is the profound stat you seemed to feel it was in your original post.

Its comparing his attacking output from when Ole took over though, you and I both know that's a pretty disingenuous measure given how the team and Pogba have fallen off a cliff since. Ole is still has the third best win rate in the league if you apply the same measure.

What does the article tell us about Pogba right now, expect that he's made the most ball recoveries in the league over a span of 4 games?!

 

[roonster09]

The tweet for the article proclaims him as the 'best ball winner in Europe' and it mentions the top 5 leagues when all but the weakest of those leagues have played less games than England. His numbers are higher by playing significantly more minutes than the vast majority of all the players he's supposed to be a better 'ball winner' than.

How is this possession won stat measured? I'm guessing it's ball recoveries which is just picking up loose balls, notice how two of his peers are DLPs and none are players you would understand as 'ball winners'. I don't feel this is the profound stat you seemed to feel it was in your original post.

Its comparing his attacking output from when Ole took over though, you and I both know that's a pretty disingenuous measure given how the team and Pogba have fallen off a cliff since. Ole is still has the third best win rate in the league if you apply the same measure.

What does the article tell us about Pogba right now, expect that he's made the most ball recoveries in the league over a span of 4 games?!

How is the stat measured? Have to check that with Opta, it was opta stats they have published. Even if other leagues have played less games, how does it change anything, at least it shows he is among the top in England. No one is saying he is the best ball winner, it's that he is criticized for his defensive work when stats show he is going his share of work.

I don't know why people care about headlines when it's to catch the attention, you can just read the article.

Regarding attacking output, the fact that it is even in discussion shows how good Pogba is. He is compared with strikers, wingers and some of them play for the best/second best teams in the league and Pogba played most games in deeper role. Ole even said he is moving Pogba to deeper role, to have better control on the games which has been a failure for both team and player. Also shows how much we rely on him.

That stat is not even to prove he is some amazing defensive player, it shows how good Pogba is and how he contributes to attack, defense and midfield play.

So he made most or second most ball recoveries in the league, yeah after just 4 games. Isn't that a good stat?

Edit: I don't understand how anyone can find negatives in that article. That article shows how Pogba is good in everything.

Since Ole Gunnar Solskjaer took over the United coaching role from Jose Mourinho, Pogba has made 18 goal contributions (10 goals, eight assists), which puts him fourth in the Premier League behind Sergio Aguero (24), Mohamed Salah (21) and Jamie Vardy (20).

Liverpool attacker Sadio Mane is level with Pogba on 18 goal contributions in the period, while Raheem Sterling and Pierre Emerick Aubameyang (both 17) have recorded fewer than the French playmaker

Unreal that he is alongside Mane, Salah, Auba, Sterling when he played most games in deeper midfield.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

How’s he looking from the PSG game onwards?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

How is the stat measured? Have to check that with Opta, it was opta stats they have published. Even if other leagues have played less games, how does it change anything, at least it shows he is among the top in England. No one is saying he is the best ball winner, it's that he is criticized for his defensive work when stats show he is going his share of work.

I don't know why people care about headlines when it's to catch the attention, when you can just read the article.

Regarding attacking output, the fact that it is even in discussion shows how good Pogba is. He is compared with strikers, wingers and some of them play for the best/second best teams in the league and Pogba played most games in deeper role. Ole even said he is moving Pogba to deeper role, to have better control on the games which has been a failure for both team and player. Also shows how much we rely on him.

That stat is not even to prove he is some amazing defensive player, it shows how good Pogba is and how he contributes to attack, defense and midfield play.

So he made most or second most ball recoveries in the league, yeah after just 4 games. Isn't that a good stat?

I want to know how it is measured because Ndidi has made 28 tackles and interceptions in 3 (one less than Pogba) games so far this season. I'm curious as to how he can be be framed as a better 'ball winner' than him. I'm curious as to how profound this recoveries stat is. I get the feeling it is about as profound as the most passes stat i.e. not very.

If the other leagues have played less games over such a short span then it makes a massive difference, for example, he's played twice as many minutes as any player in Italy so when you measuring totals no player in Italy has any chance of matching him If it was per 90 it would at least be a little more honest.

The attacking output comparison is from when Ole took over! He went on a purple patch and scored and assisted (including an unusual amount of penalties) a lot and he was playing a more attacking role. Since then he's fallen off a cliff and put in some absolutely rancid displays.

To cap it all off, even lauding him for being the top of anything after 4 games is weak af.

Imagine an article lauding Lewandowski as the best striker in Europe because he has 6 goals in his first 3 games. It's an absolute nonsense.

 

[Jeppers7]

I said it work both ways in general when Pogba is always compared to attacking players when he plays deeper role.

Also article didn't say anything like ball winner, it says he won possession, which he did. It didn't say anything like he won xyz tackles, it clearly stated he won possession.



So it's fine to compare his attacking contribution with attacking players even though he plays in deeper role but it's clickbait and hyperbole when he is compared with attackers when it comes to possession loss.

Exactly. Guy wants his cake and eat it. You can't have it cut both ways and winge when the stats are against your argument. Plenty of stats and myths used against Pogba when in truth his attacking contributions are up their with any attacking player in the league and his defensive contribution is massively understated

 

[roonster09]

I want to know how it is measured because Ndidi has made 28 tackles and interceptions in 3 (one less than Pogba) games so far this season. I'm curious as to how he can be be framed as a better 'ball winner' than him. I'm curious as to how profound this recoveries stat is. I get the feeling it is about as profound as the most passes stat i.e. not very.

If the other leagues have played less games over such a short span then it makes a massive difference, for example, he's played twice as many minutes as any player in Italy so when you measuring totals no player in Italy has any chance of matching him If it was per 90 it would at least be a little more honest.

The attacking output comparison is from when Ole took over! He went on a purple patch and scored and assisted (including an unusual amount of penalties) a lot and he was playing a more attacking role. Since then he's fallen off a cliff and put in some absolutely rancid displays.

To cap it all off, even lauding him for being the top of anything after 4 games is weak af.

Imagine an article lauding Lewandowski as the best striker in Europe because he has 6 goals in his first 3 games. It's an absolute nonsense.

It wasnt purple patch. He was moved deeper, he didn't even play same role which was weird considering how good he was in attacking role.

So you don't know how it is measured but somehow you downplayed it just because some stats are not available for public. Statman Dave also posted it few days back that Pogba won possession most times and he uses statszone.

No one is saying Pogba is the best defensive player, it shows he is doing defensive work which is not showed in stats available for free to public.

Weird that people have something negative about the article which says Pogba recovered possession more than any PL player, he contributed as many goals as best attackers in the league since December.

 

[roonster09]

Exactly. Guy wants his cake and eat it. You can't have it cut both ways and winge when the stats are against your argument. Plenty of stats and myths used against Pogba when in truth his attacking contributions are up their with any attacking player in the league and his defensive contribution is massively understated

I don't understand why any ManUtd fans wants to pick negatives in be article which shows so many good things about Pogba. Won possession more than any player, since December contributed nearly as many goals as Mane, Salah, Auba and he is playing deeper role.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I don't understand why any ManUtd fans wants to pick negatives in be article which shows so many good things about Pogba. Won possession more than any player, since December contributed nearly as many goals as Mane, Salah, Auba and he is playing deeper role.

Also took a lot more penalties than most of those you mention so not exactly like for like.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It wasnt purple patch. He was moved deeper, he didn't even play same role which was weird considering how good he was in attacking role.

So you don't know how it is measured but somehow you downplayed it just because some stats are not available for public. Statman Dave also posted it few days back that Pogba won possession most times and he uses statszone.

No one is saying Pogba is the best defensive player, it shows he is doing defensive work which is not showed in stats available for free to public.

Weird that people have something negative about the article which says Pogba recovered possession more than any PL player, he contributed as many goals as best attackers in the league since December.

The Opta definition of a recovery is

Recovery

This is where a player recovers the ball in a situation where neither team has possession or where the ball has been played directly to him by an opponent, thus securing possession for their team.

I don't think thee is anything weird about picking apart a nonsense article that claims him as the best ball winner in Europe after playing only 4 games of a season when most of the players he has been measured against have played significantly less minutes than him. It's complete bollocks frankly.

I don't understand why any ManUtd fans wants to pick negatives in be article which shows so many good things about Pogba. Won possession more than any player, since December contributed nearly as many goals as Mane, Salah, Auba and he is playing deeper role.

I'm not the only one tired of the circus around Pogba and this article is just indicative of it, throwing a bone for all the Pogchester United brigade to wank themselves into a lather over when in reality the information is completely disingenuous and irrelevant.

 

[Posh Red]

Also took a lot more penalties than most of those you mention so not exactly like for like.

Regardless of the penalties his numbers are excellent. Why United fans find this so hard to admit is mental to be honest.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Regardless of the penalties his numbers are excellent. Why United fans find this so hard to admit is mental to be honest.

Wasn’t it 5 goals from open play (one being a rebound from another missed penalty) and 9 assists all last season? Hardly exceeding my expectations of a £100m superstar.

 

[romufc]

Regardless of the penalties his numbers are excellent. Why United fans find this so hard to admit is mental to be honest.

I don't get it, yes we are performing terribly.

Fans - We need to sign world class players

Also fans - I got an idea lets drive our most talented player out this club be criticising him so we can moan at the board when he let go.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I don't get it, yes we are performing terribly.

Fans - We need to sign world class players

Also fans - I got an idea lets drive our most talented player out this club be criticising him so we can moan at the board when he let go.

Don’t need to drive him out, he already wants out which is a major reason I don’t like him.

 

[roonster09]

Also took a lot more penalties than most of those you mention so not exactly like for like.

Penalty goals since Ole took over.
Aguero - 3
Vardy - 1
Auba - 3
salah - 4
Pogba - 5

Hardly changes much and it puts Pogba in even higher position considering he played most games in deeper midfield and other 4 players are leading goal scorers for their teams.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Penalty goals since Ole took over.
Aguero - 3
Vardy - 1
Auba - 3
salah - 4
Pogba - 5

Hardly changes much and it puts Pogba in even higher position considering he played most games in deeper midfield and other 4 players are leading goal scorers for their teams.

Mane slipped off that list?

 

[El Zoido]

I don't get it, yes we are performing terribly.

Fans - We need to sign world class players

Also fans - I got an idea lets drive our most talented player out this club be criticising him so we can moan at the board when he let go.

Also fans:

“Pogba is overrated, he doesn’t even try most of the time and he keeps costing us goals by losing possession”

Pogba is out injured.

“We’re screwed and have no chance of winning.”

 

[Posh Red]

Wasn’t it 5 goals from open play (one being a rebound from another missed penalty) and 9 assists all last season? Hardly exceeding my expectations of a £100m superstar.

£89m*

So how many goals and assists should a top midfielder get in a dysfunctional team that sacked the manager halfway through the season? Curious to know.

 

[Treble]

Unreal that he is alongside Mane, Salah, Auba, Sterling when he played most games in deeper midfield.

It's unreal indeed. But partly because he scored many pens. Take out the pens and he doesn't make top 10. The likes of Mane and Sterling have not taken any pens. When Toure was taking pens for City his stats were unreal too. He contributed 30 league goals from midfield in one season.

 

[roonster09]

The Opta definition of a recovery is

Recovery

This is where a player recovers the ball in a situation where neither team has possession or where the ball has been played directly to him by an opponent, thus securing possession for their team.

I don't think thee is anything weird about picking apart a nonsense article that claims him as the best ball winner in Europe after playing only 4 games of a season when most of the players he has been measured against have played significantly less minutes than him. It's complete bollocks frankly.



I'm not the only one tired of the circus around Pogba and this article is just indicative of it, throwing a bone for all the Pogchester United brigade to wank themselves into a lather over when in reality the information is completely disingenuous and irrelevant.

So he is recovering possession. Also you are not picking apart article, you are picking apart clickbait headline.

It's not mine or their problem if you can't look past headline. Article mentioned about possession won, nothing on tackles or interceptions.

So you are tired of circus around Pogba, which means we have to downplay his ability? Odd thing to do when the discussion is not even whether we have to sell or retain Pogba, it's about Pogba the player.

I don't mind ManUtd fans wanking themselves over Pogba, it's so much better than wanking themselves over players just because they are English. It's not irrelevant, just because you don't appreciate something doesn't mean it's irrelevant. The fact that you can't even understand that Pogba's numbers are comparable with best attackers in the league speaks about your ignorance.

 

[roonster09]

It's unreal indeed. But partly because he scored many pens. Take out the pens and he doesn't make top 10. The likes of Mane and Sterling have not taken any pens. When Toure was taking pens for City his stats were unreal too. He contributed 30 league goals from midfield in one season.

Penalties scored since Ole took over.
Penalty goals since Ole took over.
Aguero - 3
Vardy - 1
Auba - 3
salah - 4
Pogba - 5

It won't change much. The fact that he is even close to these players is unreal, considering he played in advanced role in only few games and then Ole changed his role to deeper position

 

[roonster09]

Mane slipped off that list?

He is up there with the best attackers and only thing you are asking about is the player who isn't there.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

£89m*

So how many goals and assists should a top midfielder get in a dysfunctional team that sacked the manager halfway through the season? Curious to know.

More than what he did as supposedly by far the best player in the team

£89m* plus add onns and valued at lot more by some people on here.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He is up there with the best attackers and only thing you are asking about is the player who isn't there.

He was on your original list but you took him out next message because he didn’t help your argument about penalty goals.

 

[OL29]

Weird how the most vocal posters in this thread are the ones who dislike him most. They admit that they don’t like him then criticise others for not being objective. Hypocrites.

 

[romufc]

Also fans:

“Pogba is overrated, he doesn’t even try most of the time and he keeps costing us goals by losing possession”

Pogba is out injured.

“We’re screwed and have no chance of winning.”

Yep the state of the fans. In my opinion this team without Pogba will struggle.

I know he is not the perfect player BUT he is so vital.

 

[roonster09]

He was on your original list but you took him out next message because he didn’t help your argument about penalty goals.

If only you knew what you are posting. So are we ignoring that he has numbers that is near Auba, Salah and few others?

Mane is not on the list as he didn't take penalties. So when you check penalty goals his name won't pop up.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

So he is recovering possession. Also you are not picking apart article, you are picking apart clickbait headline.

It's not mine or their problem if you can't look past headline. Article mentioned about possession won, nothing on tackles or interceptions.

So you are tired of circus around Pogba, which means we have to downplay his ability? Odd thing to do when the discussion is not even whether we have to sell or retain Pogba, it's about Pogba the player.

I don't mind ManUtd fans wanking themselves over Pogba, it's so much better than wanking themselves over players just because they are English. It's not irrelevant, just because you don't appreciate something doesn't mean it's irrelevant. The fact that you can't even understand that Pogba's numbers are comparable with best attackers in the league speaks about your ignorance.

Pogba has won possession in the midfield third for Manchester United more times (27) than any other player in Europe's top five leagues season, with Jorginho (26) and Jefferson Lerma (23) the next best.

Disingenous bollocks because he's played significant more minutes than the majority of those players in the top 5 leagues.

Pogba has been widely criticised because he has given the ball away on 90 occasions so far this season, but the fact he has touched the ball 380 times puts the previous statistic in perspective.

The 26-year-old has only lost the ball on 23.7 per cent of his touches, which is lower than Kevin De Bruyne (26%), Roberto Firmino (27%) and Mohamed Salah (34%).

Disingenuous bollocks because he's played in a position where ball retention is crucially important this season whereas the other player have opposite responsibilities, they are risk takers.

Since Ole Gunnar Solskjaer took over the United coaching role from Jose Mourinho, Pogba has made 18 goal contributions (10 goals, eight assists), which puts him fourth in the Premier League behind Sergio Aguero (24), Mohamed Salah (21) and Jamie Vardy (20).

Disingenous bollocks because in this case they've decided to use stats from half way through last season as opposed to stats for this season in the other cases.

Their broadest conclusion is made using a 4 game sample which is a complete nonsense.

The whole article is garbage.

 

[romufc]

If only you knew what you are posting. So are we ignoring that he has numbers that is near Auba, Salah and few others?

Mane is not on the list as he didn't take penalties. So when you check penalty goals his name won't pop up.

Look at the players you are comparing him with. Aguero, Salah, Mane are all playing for a team Miles ahead of everyone creating / scoring buckets of goals.

Auba and Vardy who have been terrific in the PL.

This shows how good Pogba is. Fans are having a go at him, but then compare him to the leagues best players and his numbers stack up to those. He then now has been also chipping in defensively.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Unreal that he is alongside Mane, Salah, Auba, Sterling when he played most games in deeper midfield.

This was your original list?

 

[Treble]

Penalties scored since Ole took over.
Penalty goals since Ole took over.
Aguero - 3
Vardy - 1
Auba - 3
salah - 4
Pogba - 5

It won't change much. The fact that he is even close to these players is unreal, considering he played in advanced role in only few games and then Ole changed his role to deeper position

5 goals from open play in say 25 games. If you add 5 goals from pens to Bernardo, Firmino, Sane, Lacazette, Son, Eriksen, Mane and Sterling, Pogba wouldn't be near to top 10. 50% of his goals have been from pens, how it doesn't change much?

The thing with Pogba and pens is that he isn't very good at them and shouldn't have taken pens in the first place.

 

[roonster09]

Pogba has won possession in the midfield third for Manchester United more times (27) than any other player in Europe's top five leagues season, with Jorginho (26) and Jefferson Lerma (23) the next best.

Disingenous bollocks because he's played significant more minutes than the majority of those players in the top 5 leagues.

Pogba has been widely criticised because he has given the ball away on 90 occasions so far this season, but the fact he has touched the ball 380 times puts the previous statistic in perspective.

The 26-year-old has only lost the ball on 23.7 per cent of his touches, which is lower than Kevin De Bruyne (26%), Roberto Firmino (27%) and Mohamed Salah (34%).

Disingenuous bollocks because he's played in a position where ball retention is crucially important this season whereas those have opposite responsibilities.

Since Ole Gunnar Solskjaer took over the United coaching role from Jose Mourinho, Pogba has made 18 goal contributions (10 goals, eight assists), which puts him fourth in the Premier League behind Sergio Aguero (24), Mohamed Salah (21) and Jamie Vardy (20).

Disingenous bollocks because in this case they've decided to use stats from half way through last season as opposed to stats for this season in the other cases.

Their broadest conclusion is made using a 4 game sample which is a nonsense.

The whole article is garbage.

fecking hell, what a pile of nonsense. They didn't set random date, they counted goals and assists since Ole took over. He is a midfielder who played in deeper role (and few games as advanced midfielder) but his numbers is close to strikers and wingers. And somehow it's bollocks because they counted from the time Ole took over.

So in PL he won possession more than anyone, funny how that is ignored just because they mentioned Europe. Also he didnt play same role all the time last season, what's the point of counting the stats when he was playing as advanced midfielder in first few games?

If it was about some English player, you would be using tissues to wipe the creamy white thing on your screen.

I don't like the player, so lets downplay whatever he has done.

 

[Adam-Utd]

5 goals from open play in say 25 games. If you add 5 goals from pens to Bernardo, Firmino, Sane, Lacazette, Son, Eriksen, Mane and Sterling, Pogba wouldn't be near to top 10. 50% of his goals have been from pens, how it doesn't change much?

The thing with Pogba and pens is that he isn't very good at them and shouldn't have taken pens in the first place.

All playing for better teams, 2 of them CL winners and premier league record goalscorers.

Put Pogba in their teams and he'd have similar if not better figures. Anybody doubting this has issues.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

All playing for better teams, 2 of them CL winners and premier league record goalscorers.

Put Pogba in their teams and he'd have similar if not better figures. Anybody doubting this has issues.

We will find out next season, be 10% less posters here though as they will be on some madrista forum.

 

[roonster09]

5 goals from open play in say 25 games. If you add 5 goals from pens to Bernardo, Firmino, Sane, Lacazette, Son, Eriksen, Mane and Sterling, Pogba wouldn't be near to top 10. 50% of his goals have been from pens, how it doesn't change much?

The thing with Pogba and pens is that he isn't very good at them and shouldn't have taken pens in the first place.

It's about goals and assists since December (Ole took over).

So Pogba contributed to 13 goals without penalties. Auba 14 goals, Salah - 17, Vardy - 19 and there are few more players. How does it change much when the article was Pogba's contribution which is comparable to best attackers and he played deeper role. Again you are using wingers, attacking mids, CFs to CM who played deeper role. Shows how good Pogba was.

 

[Treble]

All playing for better teams, 2 of them CL winners and premier league record goalscorers.

Put Pogba in their teams and he'd have similar if not better figures. Anybody doubting this has issues.

Pogba wouldn't be the sole source of creativity there and would be just one of many other good performers. And wouldn't take pens too. Everything goes trough him at United which helps his stats.

He is an excellent player but a big goal threat he isn't.

 

[roonster09]

This was your original list?

ok.