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2019-20 Performances


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Amar__

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The trophies that Gerrard for Liverpool, each time he also had some great teammates. He was their star without a doubt but there wasn't a humongous gulf between him and some of his better teammates that it could be considered as him carrying them.
Pogba is a very very much different type of player anyway. Like @JPRouve implied, up until this day people don't know how to evalute his limits as a football and end up expectating way too much.
Probably because he is our most expensive player of all times and because his fans keep saying shit like this:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pogba-is-the-best-midfielder-in-the-world.445201/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-player-of-the-year-2019-2020.450031/

Not to mention constant comment when he is injured, away from the team, etc., saying that we will lose every game without him, that we wouldn't be able to string two passes together, etc., despite playing same shite with or without him on the pitch.
 

kouroux

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Probably because he is our most expensive player of all times and because his fans keep saying shit like this:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pogba-is-the-best-midfielder-in-the-world.445201/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-player-of-the-year-2019-2020.450031/

Not to mention constant comment when he is injured, away from the team, etc., saying that we will lose every game without him, that we wouldn't be able to string two passes together, etc., despite playing same shite with or without him on the pitch.
So what ? Fans overrating (or underrating) him strongly in certain periods should never affect our assessment of the player as a whole. Same logic with his price, if the club was fleeced by Juventus, it doesn't mean he'll suddenly become a player he's never been and never will be. The price tag of a footballer doesn't just depend anymore on his ability only sadly, we live in a time where the age and marketability of a player can drive his price up or down.
 

Lee565

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Does anyone see a second striker in pogba like a cantona or bergkamp The guy is so gifted to create things out of nothing, he is not bad around the penalty and he has shown he can shield the ball well when in possession.

I'm sure this opinion will be shoot down but great midfielders like Scholes and Gerrard have played that same role really well in the past.
 

Majima

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Regarding the "lazy" bit, I was impersonating the "fans" and what they always say.
Oh I've just read it back and my intentions were a bit hazy I think. I was addressing the other fans too. I know, I never thought you believed that at all. My apologies if that wasn't totally clear in the message.
 

MikeKing

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Whatever way you look at it hes has been a flop at this club. Cant wait until he is gone, hopefully in January.
He is a great player on his day, even untouchable at times but you are right. It sucks that he has been, but considering the fact he wants out too it is time to give up on the idea that Pogba will be part of a comeback with this club. It wont happen, he will soon leave as a highly rated flop which means we might get a lot of money back on the deal so that is good. Nobody questions his talent, but I find it hard to understand how people can feel attached to a player like him right now, especially when it is known he wants out.
 

Eli Zee

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Whatever way you look at it hes has been a flop at this club. Cant wait until he is gone, hopefully in January.
Any midfielder would be a flop playing with the midfield we have around him + the striking options.

Isnt it true this season that pogba has created the same amount of goal scoring opportunities as all our other midfielders combined, in like a 3rd of the time playing.
 

Frank Grimes

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He is a great player on his day, even untouchable at times but you are right. It sucks that he has been, but considering the fact he wants out too it is time to give up on the idea that Pogba will be part of a comeback with this club. It wont happen, he will soon leave as a highly rated flop which means we might get a lot of money back on the deal so that is good. Nobody questions his talent, but I find it hard to understand how people can feel attached to a player like him right now, especially when it is known he wants out.
Agree with everything you said here.
 

Frank Grimes

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He certainly hasn't been a flop. A bit disappointing, yes, but 'flop' is going way too far. He's regularly been our best player.
He has also regularly been poor. He has regularly look disinterested and has regularly been dropping hints that he wants off. He also actually admitted he wants off.

He's been a white elephant and a player who can't be trusted either on or off the field. Mourinho didn't call him a virus for nothing.
 

MadDogg

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He has also regularly been poor. He has regularly look disinterested and has regularly been dropping hints that he wants off. He also actually admitted he wants off.

He's been a white elephant and a player who can't be trusted either on or off the field. Mourinho didn't call him a virus for nothing.
A player who has been loved by pretty much every other manager and every player he's ever played with, but yes he is the virus. Mourinho, the manager who has fallen out with the majority of the players in his last three teams and even before then was widely disliked throughout the business sure is the one to listen to there. Worth remembering that Pogba (along with Martial) was the player who kept Mourinho in the job as long as he was.

I just hate unfair over-the-top criticism. Pogba absolutely can be criticised for some things, but there are some people who seem to always go significantly overboard or who only focus on the bad without mentioning the good.

The fact of the matter is that he has been very inconsistent for us. 50% of the time he has been good (regularly our best player), 50% of the time he has been disappointing (occasionally terrible). Is that good enough? No. Criticise him for that by all means. But while you are doing that make sure you point out how many players in our squad have managed to be more consistent and better than 50/50 ratio of good/bad over the last three years. Acknowledge that the majority of his midfield partners have focused purely on defensive contributions (often not well) and provide nothing in terms of offence or general control, but Pogba is expected to handle all of that while providing quite a decent amount defensively (nothing amazing, but certainly more than his partners provide offensively) and gets far more negativity directed towards him. Show just as much criticism towards all the other players who have been worse than him (unfortunately that's almost every single one of them).

Pogba deserves criticism, but Pogba also gets significantly more than his fair share of criticism. The amount of people who are going on about the injuries being fake and him just not wanting to play, him being a virus, etc, it's just ridiculous.
 

fergiesarmy1

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A player who has been loved by pretty much every other manager and every player he's ever played with, but yes he is the virus. Mourinho, the manager who has fallen out with the majority of the players in his last three teams and even before then was widely disliked throughout the business sure is the one to listen to there. Worth remembering that Pogba (along with Martial) was the player who kept Mourinho in the job as long as he was.

I just hate unfair over-the-top criticism. Pogba absolutely can be criticised for some things, but there are some people who seem to always go significantly overboard or who only focus on the bad without mentioning the good.

The fact of the matter is that he has been very inconsistent for us. 50% of the time he has been good (regularly our best player), 50% of the time he has been disappointing (occasionally terrible). Is that good enough? No. Criticise him for that by all means. But while you are doing that make sure you point out how many players in our squad have managed to be more consistent and better than 50/50 ratio of good/bad over the last three years. Acknowledge that the majority of his midfield partners have focused purely on defensive contributions (often not well) and provide nothing in terms of offence or general control, but Pogba is expected to handle all of that while providing quite a decent amount defensively (nothing amazing, but certainly more than his partners provide offensively) and gets far more negativity directed towards him. Show just as much criticism towards all the other players who have been worse than him (unfortunately that's almost every single one of them).

Pogba deserves criticism, but Pogba also gets significantly more than his fair share of criticism. The amount of people who are going on about the injuries being fake and him just not wanting to play, him being a virus, etc, it's just ridiculous.
Don’t think Fergie is a fan either.
 

He'sRaldo

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A player who has been loved by pretty much every other manager and every player he's ever played with, but yes he is the virus. Mourinho, the manager who has fallen out with the majority of the players in his last three teams and even before then was widely disliked throughout the business sure is the one to listen to there. Worth remembering that Pogba (along with Martial) was the player who kept Mourinho in the job as long as he was.

I just hate unfair over-the-top criticism. Pogba absolutely can be criticised for some things, but there are some people who seem to always go significantly overboard or who only focus on the bad without mentioning the good.

The fact of the matter is that he has been very inconsistent for us. 50% of the time he has been good (regularly our best player), 50% of the time he has been disappointing (occasionally terrible). Is that good enough? No. Criticise him for that by all means. But while you are doing that make sure you point out how many players in our squad have managed to be more consistent and better than 50/50 ratio of good/bad over the last three years. Acknowledge that the majority of his midfield partners have focused purely on defensive contributions (often not well) and provide nothing in terms of offence or general control, but Pogba is expected to handle all of that while providing quite a decent amount defensively (nothing amazing, but certainly more than his partners provide offensively) and gets far more negativity directed towards him. Show just as much criticism towards all the other players who have been worse than him (unfortunately that's almost every single one of them).

Pogba deserves criticism, but Pogba also gets significantly more than his fair share of criticism. The amount of people who are going on about the injuries being fake and him just not wanting to play, him being a virus, etc, it's just ridiculous.
Players like Nani, Di Maria, Zaha, Memphis, Pogba, Martial, early Ronaldo, etc. just naturally attract a lot of criticism from our fans.

Quite a lot would prefer a McTominay or Herrera type of player, but we need both types in the team.
 

OL29

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Players like Nani, Di Maria, Zaha, Memphis, Pogba, Martial, early Ronaldo, etc. just naturally attract a lot of criticism from our fans.

Quite a lot would prefer a McTominay or Herrera type of player, but we need both types in the team.
Spot on, players with flair are generally under appreciated by our fan base.
 

Darius_MUFC1991

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Don’t think Fergie is a fan either.
The 73-year-old retired manager claims in his new book, Leading, that he was eager for Pogba to sign a one-year contract extension with the club, but his strained relationship with Raiola hindered this from happening.
“There are one or two football agents I simply do not like, and Mino Raiola, Paul Pogba’s agent is one of them. I distrusted him from the moment I met him."

“We had Paul under a three-year contract, and it had a one-year renewal option which we were eager to sign."

“Raiola suddenly appeared on the scene and our first meeting was a fiasco. He and I were like oil and water."

Ferguson then pretty much came out and said that Raiola convinced the French midfielder that Manchester United wasn't the right place for him.



“From then our goose was cooked because Raiola had been able to integrate himself with Paul and his family and the player signed with Juventus.“

Sounded like a fan to me.
 

OL29

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The 73-year-old retired manager claims in his new book, Leading, that he was eager for Pogba to sign a one-year contract extension with the club, but his strained relationship with Raiola hindered this from happening.
“There are one or two football agents I simply do not like, and Mino Raiola, Paul Pogba’s agent is one of them. I distrusted him from the moment I met him."

“We had Paul under a three-year contract, and it had a one-year renewal option which we were eager to sign."

“Raiola suddenly appeared on the scene and our first meeting was a fiasco. He and I were like oil and water."

Ferguson then pretty much came out and said that Raiola convinced the French midfielder that Manchester United wasn't the right place for him.



“From then our goose was cooked because Raiola had been able to integrate himself with Paul and his family and the player signed with Juventus.“

Sounded like a fan to me.
I wouldn’t even bother with that guy, I don’t think he’s said one thing correct about Pogba in either of his threads, which is especially weird as I think he’s the most active poster in Pogba threads.
 

fergiesarmy1

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The 73-year-old retired manager claims in his new book, Leading, that he was eager for Pogba to sign a one-year contract extension with the club, but his strained relationship with Raiola hindered this from happening.
“There are one or two football agents I simply do not like, and Mino Raiola, Paul Pogba’s agent is one of them. I distrusted him from the moment I met him."

“We had Paul under a three-year contract, and it had a one-year renewal option which we were eager to sign."

“Raiola suddenly appeared on the scene and our first meeting was a fiasco. He and I were like oil and water."

Ferguson then pretty much came out and said that Raiola convinced the French midfielder that Manchester United wasn't the right place for him.



“From then our goose was cooked because Raiola had been able to integrate himself with Paul and his family and the player signed with Juventus.“

Sounded like a fan to me.
I’d guarantee he wouldn’t have resigned him for that price with the same agent even more invested.
 

fergiesarmy1

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I wouldn’t even bother with that guy, I don’t think he’s said one thing correct about Pogba in either of his threads, which is especially weird as I think he’s the most active poster in Pogba threads.
:lol:

I said he wouldn’t win the balloon door this year so there’s at least one thing we can take to the bank.
 

Frank Grimes

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A player who has been loved by pretty much every other manager and every player he's ever played with, but yes he is the virus. Mourinho, the manager who has fallen out with the majority of the players in his last three teams and even before then was widely disliked throughout the business sure is the one to listen to there. Worth remembering that Pogba (along with Martial) was the player who kept Mourinho in the job as long as he was.

I just hate unfair over-the-top criticism. Pogba absolutely can be criticised for some things, but there are some people who seem to always go significantly overboard or who only focus on the bad without mentioning the good.

The fact of the matter is that he has been very inconsistent for us. 50% of the time he has been good (regularly our best player), 50% of the time he has been disappointing (occasionally terrible). Is that good enough? No. Criticise him for that by all means. But while you are doing that make sure you point out how many players in our squad have managed to be more consistent and better than 50/50 ratio of good/bad over the last three years. Acknowledge that the majority of his midfield partners have focused purely on defensive contributions (often not well) and provide nothing in terms of offence or general control, but Pogba is expected to handle all of that while providing quite a decent amount defensively (nothing amazing, but certainly more than his partners provide offensively) and gets far more negativity directed towards him. Show just as much criticism towards all the other players who have been worse than him (unfortunately that's almost every single one of them).

Pogba deserves criticism, but Pogba also gets significantly more than his fair share of criticism. The amount of people who are going on about the injuries being fake and him just not wanting to play, him being a virus, etc, it's just ridiculous.
Pogba was supposed to be our linchpin, he has failed to be and has been a disruptive player. Not sure why he has so many defending him tbh. Since March his performances have been terrible. Also his goalscoring record has been poor if you take away penalties. He is clearly a very talented player and United's ills are far from all down to him. However, if you look at the full picture and judge it rationally you still come to the conclusion he has been a flop.
 

Stadjer

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Pogba was supposed to be our linchpin, he has failed to be and has been a disruptive player. Not sure why he has so many defending him tbh. Since March his performances have been terrible. Also his goalscoring record has been poor if you take away penalties. He is clearly a very talented player and United's ills are far from all down to him. However, if you look at the full picture and judge it rationally you still come to the conclusion he has been a flop.
How has he been a disruptive player? :houllier:
 

edcunited1878

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When your most expensive player is looking to leave every window that’s disruptive, you cannot plan long term, medium term and even short term is problematic.
That is exactly why continuity of system and understanding how you want to play is more important than any other player. But you can't do that if you sack managers every two years or go from one different manager to an entirely different manager. Players and managers come and go, with managers more frequent. Developing a proper spine of the team will also alleviate some of the issues if players leave but then proper recruitment is key too.

Just look a Dortmund, Ajax, etc. It's not rocket science. Pogba can leave and how United develop play without him and how they fill out the squad with the funds (if they do) directly shows the competence/incompetence of Woodward, his football structure/staff and Ole and his coaches.
 

fergiesarmy1

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That is exactly why continuity of system and understanding how you want to play is more important than any other player. But you can't do that if you sack managers every two years or go from one different manager to an entirely different manager. Players and managers come and go, with managers more frequent. Developing a proper spine of the team will also alleviate some of the issues if players leave but then proper recruitment is key too.

Just look a Dortmund, Ajax, etc. It's not rocket science. Pogba can leave and how United develop play without him and how they fill out the squad with the funds (if they do) directly shows the competence/incompetence of Woodward, his football structure/staff and Ole and his coaches.
Exactly, I’m in the not for sacking our manager camp for most of those reasons. Fact is Ole ain’t trying to leave every window through his own choice, this charlatan is yet so many people believe he is our saviour.
 

edcunited1878

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Exactly, I’m in the not for sacking our manager camp for most of those reasons. Fact is Ole ain’t trying to leave every window through his own choice, this charlatan is yet so many people believe he is our saviour.
Yep yep. Would rather have Captain Marvel over Pogba in this situation any day and every day. A player of that ilk would drive the team forward, solidify the team around him and set the tone for the team pretty much every week from the midfield. The midfield is the heart of your team. If it's not functioning for the greater good of the team, no matter the name on the back, you're going to struggle more times than not.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Yep yep. Would rather have Captain Marvel over Pogba in this situation any day and every day. A player of that ilk would drive the team forward, solidify the team around him and set the tone for the team pretty much every week from the midfield. The midfield is the heart of your team. If it's not functioning for the greater good of the team, no matter the name on the back, you're going to struggle more times than not.
Well according to his fans Pogba isn’t a leader, he isn’t a defender, he isn’t an attacker, he isn’t a goal scorer. At this stage apart from the odd Hollywood ball I’m not sure what he is exactly supposed to be anymore.

I did want him at first but moving into his fourth year now after watching united for 40 years I know if someone doesn’t make it by now it’s time to move on, reminds me of Veron in so many ways.
 

Amar__

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So what ? Fans overrating (or underrating) him strongly in certain periods should never affect our assessment of the player as a whole. Same logic with his price, if the club was fleeced by Juventus, it doesn't mean he'll suddenly become a player he's never been and never will be. The price tag of a footballer doesn't just depend anymore on his ability only sadly, we live in a time where the age and marketability of a player can drive his price up or down.
So basically what you are saying he is nowhere near worth what we paid for him, we paid that money only because of the marketing value, etc? Then yes, you are right, if he is just another midfielder who is worth 50 millions then we are definitely expecting too much of him.
 

DWelbz19

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For me that's where everything starts and ends, Pogba is overrated by a lot of his supporters and critics. The latter thinks that he should be able to play like an all time great when he isn't close to that level, I said it when we bought him, he is around Rakitic's level.
Mentalist.
 

FerociousCorgis

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yes i for one cant wait til we sell pogba and Ole blows all that money bringing in Longstaff to replace him/
 

fergiesarmy1

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yes i for one cant wait til we sell pogba and Ole blows all that money bringing in Longstaff to replace him/
If he was more productive it’s not as absurd as it sounds.

You realise this superstar hasn’t scored from open play since February and assisted 2 goals in about 6 months?
 
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