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2020-21 Performances


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Hugh Jass

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I said last season will we still be arguing in two years time about Pogba. Some love him, some hate him. I think it is a good bet that come next season if he is still here, the arguments will still be here.

If Pogba was what he is supposed to be, we would not be arguing over him.
 

Hugh Jass

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Was he like this at Juventus, week in week out? Seemed like he had an incredible highlight compilation every week there, but those performances are rare at Man Utd.
Youtube videos can be deceptive. They just pick out the best bits of multiple games and put a montage together.

To really judge a player you have to watch the full 90 minutes.
 

zenith

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He might still be suffering from the after effects of the coronavirus. Even though one might be fit as such, the fatigue and tiredness takes a while to go away.
 

Falcow

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Pogba wasn't great today but, as I'm not in training with him, I've no idea how badly he was hit by COVID19.

All that aside, as much as it hurts me to admit it, I sympathise with Pogba not wanting to sign a new deal. His prime years will be up in two or three seasons. Why stay at a club that seems to have no ambition other than to scrape Champions League qualification to keep the finances looking happy?
His options will be limited to either PSG or Juve. No team who has actual competition for the league will be signing him.
 

JPRouve

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Was he like this at Juventus, week in week out? Seemed like he had an incredible highlight compilation every week there, but those performances are rare at Man Utd.
No, Pogba is more consistent now than he was before 2016.
 

Falcow

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It seems we have aged Rooney mk 2.

When he's fit and performs badly he's not fit and the manager shouldn't have selected him. When he's fit and he is fit but performs poorly he's been positioned 9 metres from his ideal position and therefore can't play effectively. When he's fit and performs adaquatly offensively but completely reneges on his responsibilities defensively it's his partners fault for not being a peak hybrid of Makelele and Keane. When he just about scrapes by defensively but does nothing offensively he's having to cover defensively for mediocrity (or see 9 metre positional problem), despite stats showing he did little of the sort.

Truly good players are good players regardless. They don't play for 4 full years and not stand out in either good, decent or mediocre teams. They don't get overlooked in award ceremonies year after year when the likes of Shaw, Herrera and a goalkeeper; or a bloke that literally signed a dozen games before the end of the season get recognised.

Great players are great players and Pogba ain't one I'm afraid.
This.....a million times this, sums it up exactly with Pogba. I'd be willing to bet every penny I have that once again this season, for all of the reasons you have outlined above, he will not be in the running for any of the club player of the year awards, never mind the overall league awards.

I said it in another thread, or maybe it was this one, but we will nothing bar the odd cup so long as he stays in the team. You cant have somebody in midfield who has no passion, fight, work rate or discipline. I really thought he was off when we signed DVB but unfortunately it appears not.

I'm sure he will have a good game again in a few weeks against Brighton or somebody and everyone will think he is great again.
 

Shark

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He's not nearly as good as he's made out to be. His United career is littered with performances like yesterday.
 

red4ever 79

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Do you think Ole will play DVB at DM?
I dont know where Ole will fit DVB in, but he will be starting games make no mistake of that. You find room for your best players, when he came on yesterday he looked a different level to me. His touch, his control, his movement. Looks a good player

Did you watch the game? What did you think?
 

Withnail

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I dont know where Ole will fit DVB in, but he will be starting games make no mistake of that. You find room for your best players, when he came on yesterday he looked a different level to me. His touch, his control, his movement. Looks a good player

Did you watch the game? What did you think?
I think he did well and looked sharp but he looks like another one we need closer to the box though so I'd see him more as a rotation player for Fernandes.
 

Hugh Jass

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This.....a million times this, sums it up exactly with Pogba. I'd be willing to bet every penny I have that once again this season, for all of the reasons you have outlined above, he will not be in the running for any of the club player of the year awards, never mind the overall league awards.

I said it in another thread, or maybe it was this one, but we will nothing bar the odd cup so long as he stays in the team. You cant have somebody in midfield who has no passion, fight, work rate or discipline. I really thought he was off when we signed DVB but unfortunately it appears not.

I'm sure he will have a good game again in a few weeks against Brighton or somebody and everyone will think he is great again.
This is it really. It is GOOD GOOD BAD BAD BAD GOOD BAD GOOD BAD BAD BAD and so on.

I will admit that when Pogba delivers he is really good. The pass in last years opener for Rashford against Chelsea for example. But he is not consistent.

I think either he has to go or else Ole will be going and i think Ole knows this. Pogba threw Mourinho under the bus publically. Now i am not saying we should have kept Mourinho, but Pogba will do the same to Ole.

I think if we sign Sancho, we have a front four that can rotate that is extremely potent (not sure why Greenwood was not starting yesterday). So what we should do is build the MF around that front three. Like Liverpool do.

Personally i think we should sell Pogba. You just dont know which Pogba will turn up.
 

Clermontois

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If he has always been two footed then can you tell me how many goals he has scored with his left foot apart from the WC goal as that is how I judge a two footed attacking player.
Your comment about it not being his best game I agree with as I think it is his average game in a Utd shirt but his passing was piss poor and belongs with the sewage outfall well off Bondi Beach.
Your last posts that I have seen belong in the Bondi sewage. Paul was not match fit yesterday evidenced by his heavy breathing at 50mins, maybe giflord could post that so that was in no way a typical performance but nevertheless they were others who were worst.

Since you have doubled down the silly left foot post if I understand correctly a player is not two footed unless he scores with his weaker foot?! Even if those were the metrics he has already scored for us with his left in more emphatic fashion than for France.

Weren't 8 of those penalties?
Arent all of Fernandes's..

His reputation is much higher than his performances ever are. I have a pattern of discussion with my Liverpool supporting brother where I give the same opinion for Firmino. At least, Firmino has the luxury of having others who are significantly better than him. Pogba will never be the leader or the player who takes the game by the scruff of the neck.
Nonsense.

Didn't posters like you say Fernandes was that player and not Paul? Why revisit it.

Thought he was very poor yesterday, he is incapable of keeping it simple and has a bizarre obsession with trying to switch play with his wrong foot, and it meant he gave it away a number of times.

He's a problem for Ole, difficult player to drop but shouldn't be in the side at the moment, Fred looks a better option.
He switched the play twice with his left, once it went astray and the other went to Shaw which opened up Palace. There is nothing bizarre about that but cannot say the same for your post.

He should not be in the side until he fully recovers and gets match fit but nothing to do with anyone being a better option. As often as he gave the ball away yesterday 5 or 6 times he was our most incisive passer yet again, always is.
 

Kurton

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I don't know what his best position is in the midfield. He's not a 10 as he cannot score enough goals or dynamic enough to occupy spaces and create some panic in opposition defence, he's not mobile enough to be an 8 to do a box to box and slows down the moves, now if he had good positioning sense and defensive nous as his passing is very good but unfortunately the former is his weekness to be 6. I don't know what he is. DvdB should replace him for now.
 

Nickelodeon

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Nonsense.

Didn't posters like you say Fernandes was that player and not Paul? Why revisit it.
When you’re replying to an individual post, I would suggest keeping terms like “posters like you” to a minimum. It makes you sound like an entitled idiot and your entire point redundant for the simple reason because I have never commented what you’ve pointed to. If you want to address a wider audience, then don’t quote my post you stupid troll.
 

M Bison

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Your last posts that I have seen belong in the Bondi sewage. Paul was not match fit yesterday evidenced by his heavy breathing at 50mins, maybe giflord could post that so that was in no way a typical performance but nevertheless they were others who were worst.

Since you have doubled down the silly left foot post if I understand correctly a player is not two footed unless he scores with his weaker foot?! Even if those were the metrics he has already scored for us with his left in more emphatic fashion than for France.


Arent all of Fernandes's..


Nonsense.

Didn't posters like you say Fernandes was that player and not Paul? Why revisit it.


He switched the play twice with his left, once it went astray and the other went to Shaw which opened up Palace. There is nothing bizarre about that but cannot say the same for your post.

He should not be in the side until he fully recovers and gets match fit but nothing to do with anyone being a better option. As often as he gave the ball away yesterday 5 or 6 times he was our most incisive passer yet again, always is.
You’re incredibly defensive of Pogba. He was awful yesterday, and was incredibly wasteful. We all know he’s got ability but very rarely shows it and certainly isn’t a player who ever dominates a game, he goes missing when he’s needed.
 

TrustInOle

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When you’re replying to an individual post, I would suggest keeping terms like “posters like you” to a minimum. It makes you sound like an entitled idiot and your entire point redundant for the simple reason because I have never commented what you’ve pointed to. If you want to address a wider audience, then don’t quote my post you stupid troll.
Resorting to name calling makes you come across worse in all honesty.
 

Clermontois

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When you’re replying to an individual post, I would suggest keeping terms like “posters like you” to a minimum. It makes you sound like an entitled idiot and your entire point redundant for the simple reason because I have never commented what you’ve pointed to. If you want to address a wider audience, then don’t quote my post you stupid troll.
No greater troll than the one who keeps spreading untruths about any player especially one that plays in this team.

As to if you are stupid as well, ask your brother.
 

Nickelodeon

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Resorting to name calling makes you come across worse in all honesty.
You can refer to any post I’ve made and the language I’ve used in the past. I don’t appreciate quotes being attributed to me which I have never said.
 

Nickelodeon

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No greater troll than the one who keeps spreading untruths about any player especially one that plays in this team.

As to if you are stupid as well, ask your brother.
What untruths? That he’s not a leader or his reputation being higher than his performances. It’s called having an opinion.

Great insult btw.
 

Dante

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He lacks press resistance.

100% long passing accuracy with 7 out of 7

71.7% short passing accuracy with 33 out of 46

Basically, if you give him space he can use his brilliant technique and vision to switch the play and hurt you. But if you press him quickly, he's the weakest link in the midfield. Palace did it yesterday, but it's happened time and again in the last few months.

The best way to get out of this conundrum is to change the way we play out of the back in order to skip over Pogba during defence-to-attack transistions. But then, if you consistently skip over Pogba, there's not much point in having him in the side. I'm not sure what the solution is short of building the team around making him a passenger.
 

TrustInOle

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You can refer to any post I’ve made and the language I’ve used in the past. I don’t appreciate quotes being attributed to me which I have never said.
Then why not just say that? Name calling comes across as childish and is not needed in a mature person having opinion based discussions.
 

Bobski

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He hasn't been properly fit since before his injury last year, and when you have a frame like Pogba that becomes an even greater problem. Not as sharp in his movement with the ball compared to a couple of years ago, leading to him losing the ball more often in 1 v 1 situations, limits the runs he can make as well, both offensively and recovering going the other way. Utd were wide open through midfield yesterday, partly on McTominay struggling in the role, but also because Pogba can't cover the ground necessary. Even fully fit it is not a strong area in his game.

They guys is a true talent, but we need too many things to go right to get the best out of him.
 

Cassidy

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He lacks press resistance.

100% long passing accuracy with 7 out of 7

71.7% short passing accuracy with 33 out of 46

Basically, if you give him space he can use his brilliant technique and vision to switch the play and hurt you. But if you press him quickly, he's the weakest link in the midfield. Palace did it yesterday, but it's happened time and again in the last few months.

The best way to get out of this conundrum is to change the way we play out of the back in order to skip over Pogba during defence-to-attack transistions. But then, if you consistently skip over Pogba, there's not much point in having him in the side. I'm not sure what the solution is short of building the team around making him a passenger.
He wasn't in our transition from defence to attack much yesterday. That was McTominay which is the main reason we couldn't build a thing
 

TrustInOle

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He lacks press resistance.

100% long passing accuracy with 7 out of 7

71.7% short passing accuracy with 33 out of 46

Basically, if you give him space he can use his brilliant technique and vision to switch the play and hurt you. But if you press him quickly, he's the weakest link in the midfield. Palace did it yesterday, but it's happened time and again in the last few months.

The best way to get out of this conundrum is to change the way we play out of the back in order to skip over Pogba during defence-to-attack transistions. But then, if you consistently skip over Pogba, there's not much point in having him in the side. I'm not sure what the solution is short of building the team around making him a passenger.
I just don't think he is suited in recieving the ball so deep. He has the technical skill for it, but to me, his biggest issue has always been positioning. I would like to see him in a 2 man midfield with say Matic as the sole DM or closer to the box as a 10 where he is most dangerous. The only solutions I can think of is play a Diamond which we lack the attacking width from fullback for, or switch to a 433 where Matic is our only DM.

I have always been an admirer of his, but I feel if we go another full season and questions still remain, I'd probably lean towards building a team around Martial, Greenwood and Sancho (pending) and allowing him to move on. Which I will be devastated with, because I had such high hopes for him.
 

finneh

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Arent all of Fernandes's..
Two-thirds are and likewise if anyone used Fernandes' goalscoring ability in a Utd shirt as a selling point I'd point out his penalties similarly.

Just for the record though:

Pogba 16/17 G+A ex penalties - 14
Pogba 17/18 G+A ex penalities - 18
Pogba 18/19 G+A ex penalties - 19
Pogba 19/20 G+A ex penalties - 5

56 in 158. Numerically creative he is not.
 

pseudo_canadian

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Bang-average footballer.

Did an incredible job at marketing himself after that one phenomenal season at Juve.

He’s lacking the basic competencies you would expect out of a central midfielder. Completely useless and soft.
 

bosnian_red

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Was he like this at Juventus, week in week out? Seemed like he had an incredible highlight compilation every week there, but those performances are rare at Man Utd.
Because all he is is a highlights player. At Juve he was a cherry on top of a really good cake. Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal did all the midfielding. Pogba offered some quality moments and star dust. That's what he is. He isnt and has never been a player to run the game, he's not a player for a key role in there to perform over the 90 minutes. Its moments within those 90 minutes that are his biggest qualities. His reputation/perception is so far removed from his actual level and playing style, never seen anything like it with any other player before.

Part of it is definitely race related. People see a big strong black midfielder and they assume he can be an all action box to box player and run all day and expect him to be that. People see him spray long passes on occasion and expect him to be a perfect passer all around and know how to dictate games like Thiago, Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo etc. Pogba doesn't have the mentality or intelligence of a controlling midfielder. He's the 3rd midfielder of a midfield trio, one where the other 2 midfielders will handle the main part of the defensive positioning and responsibility, and where the other 2 will handle the build up play and share the creative responsibility.

Basically he has to be in a midfield 3 where the other 2 can be a midfield 2 on their own, so he has to be good enough and offer enough to offset the value another attacker would bring.
 

Nickelodeon

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Then why not just say that? Name calling comes across as childish and is not needed in a mature person having opinion based discussions.
Best to put him on ignore. He’s on my list. He never posts anything of sense.
Sure. Didn’t mean to be so uncouth. Also, don’t mean to come across as a Pogba hater as well. I think he’s one of our most talented players who just doesn’t justify his potential. Hence, remains the most frustrating one.
 

TrustInOle

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Sure. Didn’t mean to be so uncouth. Also, don’t mean to come across as a Pogba hater as well. I think he’s one of our most talented players who just doesn’t justify his potential. Hence, remains the most frustrating one.
Bang on the head with what you said though. As I have already mentioned, I have a soft spot for Pogba but he seems a player who needs a specific system to get the best out of him and without a competent ball winner next to him, don't think he suits the 2 man midfield.
 

Dante

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He wasn't in our transition from defence to attack much yesterday. That was McTominay which is the main reason we couldn't build a thing
McTominay had 92% pass completion and 3 key passes.

Pogba had 75.5% pass completion and had 0 key passes.
 

Cassidy

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McTominay had 92% pass completion and 3 key passes.

Pogba had 75.5% pass completion and had 0 key passes.
Yes 92 percent not progressing the play. Pogba had a very bad game.

However our build up didnt work because of McTom and the position he played. Better we put VDB where McTom was and McTom where Pogba was yday.
 

Dante

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Yes 92 percent not progressing the play. Pogba had a very bad game.

However our build up didnt work because of McTom and the position he played. Better we put VDB where McTom was and McTom where Pogba was yday.
What point are you arguing? I'm talking about Pogba's lack of press resistance.
 

Cassidy

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What point are you arguing? I'm talking about Pogba's lack of press resistance.
The best way to get out of this conundrum is to change the way we play out of the back in order to skip over Pogba during defence-to-attack transistions.
I'm saying we did that yesterday but with totally the wrong player
 

arthurka

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He lacks press resistance.

100% long passing accuracy with 7 out of 7

71.7% short passing accuracy with 33 out of 46

Basically, if you give him space he can use his brilliant technique and vision to switch the play and hurt you. But if you press him quickly, he's the weakest link in the midfield. Palace did it yesterday, but it's happened time and again in the last few months.

The best way to get out of this conundrum is to change the way we play out of the back in order to skip over Pogba during defence-to-attack transistions. But then, if you consistently skip over Pogba, there's not much point in having him in the side. I'm not sure what the solution is short of building the team around making him a passenger.
It's really strange to invite pressure almost every time you receive the ball then. I am still waiting for Pogba to show me he is remotely close being worth his pricetag.
 

tomaldinho1

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The simple fact that I don't think you can argue now is that he's just not as good an all round player as we hoped he would be. The whole 'on his day' argument is pointless when you have a mature player because it's not like you will see their attitude change from the usual rash form of a promising teenager or player in their early twenties. Pogba should be at/near his peak at 27. I don't even think it's a matter of concentration, as always comes up in these conversations, but rather a question of footballing ability overall. I don't think he's close to being world class but he's still a very good player and, maybe somewhat counterintuitively, I still think he can be successful here.

Once we accept his limitations and learn to accommodate him & not expect him to dictate a game, we should be much stronger as a team. I think the solution is easy; he should never start as a lone DM or as part of a 2 where his primary role is defensive, he isn't good enough for the players we have to support him in that role (versus playing with Kante for France in front of an elite defensive 5 and with world class attackers ahead of him + Giroud as an out ball), his role with United HAS to be a creative, attacking one otherwise we're wasting our time and his. He has looked his best when linking up with Ibra and then Martial, when he understands an attacking player he forms a good link with them and he needs to be receiving the ball in vastly more advanced positions than he currently is - which for me means we should be transitioning to a more possession based, positional game and not the direct, front foot football Ole wants to play because we have bought the wrong players (AWB doesn't suit that style, Maguire is terrible for that style, James is not good enough, Bruno probably does in fairness) and everything points to a fundamental issue between our tactics and personnel. Until this changes we'll do ok given we have a really good team with some depth but I can't see us doing any better than scraping 4th with the more likely scenario being a return to the Europa.
 

VP89

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Does anyone else want to see VDB play instead going forward?

This isn't based from one game, but Pogba has been inconsistent forever and VDB has a big big asset of clever positioning and unlocking a defence through his movement. I believe Bruno is clever enough to drop deeper when these runs are made and it can be vital to unlocking sides going forward.

VDB also looks extremely neat in tight spaces, able to quickly release without taking too many touches. Pogba may have greater raw talent but VDB looks far far more suited to the double pivot.
 
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