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2020-21 Performances


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tjb

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I wish we get to see Pogba, Rashford and Greenwood as the front three in our next game as I believe it’s our best forward line at the moment. If not best then definitely most watchable.

I believe it is what we will see also, if Ole goes for Pogba in the middle again it’s risky against Liverpool, he must go wide.
I agree. I think Pogba being on the left, gives us a bit more balance. Rashford, Martial and Greenwood tend to stay to high, so when Bruno is also high up the pitch trying to find spaces to pick up the ball, our central midfielders are given the responsibility of getting the ball to one of those 4 players, which requires some off the ball sharpness and good touches ( to keep the ball) and good consistent dribbling ability/passing ability, to move the ball forward quickly or accurately, none of which any of our midfield options can consistently provide, even Pogba.

Pogba playing on that flank gives us a player with the propensity to come into midfield...this is perfect when Bruno is trying to find space higher up the pitch, and provides our defence and center midfielder and easier passing option coming deeper.
 

Alemar

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It’s pretty clear that for Pogba it’s more interesting to play when we are top of the league or thereabouts. Hopefully, he will continue to contribute the way he does recently - and it’s obvious he is not dropped for Liverpool
 

tjb

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I have no ill feelings towards Pogba now. If he can play well till the end of the season, he would have helped us. We can still provide his move elsewhere while remaining cordial with all parties happy with the move. What I wouldn't want to happen however, is for Pogba to stay. I am of the belief that our midfield partnership, with or without him, is deficient, and is the sole reason why are not looking as dominant as we could. Defensively, we don't win possession enough, and in attack, our passes from deep are not quick enough.
 

zenith

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I really don't like pogba, but if we can get a mutually beneficial relationship out of his last few months here, they who the hell cares.

He knows that he needs a club to pay up for him in a pandemic year and what better way to achieve that than being a talisman in a title charge.
 

Rozay

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It’s pretty clear that for Pogba it’s more interesting to play when we are top of the league or thereabouts. Hopefully, he will continue to contribute the way he does recently - and it’s obvious he is not dropped for Liverpool
I’d leave him out on Sunday personally. Playing him on the left would let Liverpool off the hook. Of course, he’s by far and away our best player in possession, but this won’t be a fame of possession. Trent would live to face Pogba instead of Rashford. Rashford would pin him back, and have the pace to worry him in behind. In the middle, the speed of the game will mean it will likely be a series of transitions and not much in between.
 

Himannv

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Immense in the second half against Burnley. I do feel that he's maybe on his way, but he's really put in some good performances on the pitch recently. I feel he doesn't track back enough, but it's not such a big deal against a team like Burnley and his attacking contribution is excellent in these sort of games.
 

Mainoldo

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Thanks, I will keep enjoying being top of league in January.

Strange post from you. I described Pogba as being lethal when he is focused and you have a hissy fit.

You may have some comprehension issues. Maybe read back on the posts, take a deep breath and have a think about what you have done.
I’m happy your happy we are top. I’m happy to!! Let’s love it together. But your comment on Pogba was a bunch of bull... That’s all I’m highlighting. I even had a deep breath and a moment of silence before responding.

But we move.
 
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I’m aware of that. He’s also had a lot of games where he has played well. But the fact that, as is often repeated, he has ‘the ability to not play well and still contribute’ is in no small part down to the fact that he takes our pens, which offers him a direct opportunity to ‘contribute’ in games that he doesn’t play well.
An opportunity Pogba also had, but fecked up.

So the point stands, although I’m not quite sure what yours was/is?
 
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F’d? Wasn’t he too scorer when he did. Can we please stop telling lies.
Eh? Why did he get taken off pens? It’s because he missed a third of them.

Is that a lie?

I’m not slagging Pogba here, I’m a huge Pogba fan, but making out the reason Bruno contributes more than anyone in our side when not playing well is because “pens”, isn’t telling the whole truth. Far from it.
 

united for life

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Your use of the word ‘still’ in relation to Raiola’s comments leads me to believe you are referring to the games since then. And your conclusion of those games is that Pogba has been moody, inconsistent and requiring of ‘pampering’ (whatever that actually means) in order to play well. Which is of course, all nonsense and not reflective of the games within that period.

As for him not pushing the team and playing well when the team is on top - within the same period he’s come off the bench at Leipzig and dragged us back into contention, scored an equaliser in a game at West Ham where we were losing and being outplayed, and scored the winner and generally led the team’s impetus in a key game last night.

You don’t seem to be speaking of what is actually occurring on the pitch here. He’s played consistently well over the last 6 weeks and has stepped up at moments the team needed him. All in direct contradiction to everything you have just said. If you wish to remain cautious, it is your right, but I suspect you will ultimately prove yourself right as you have a differing version of events to reality anyway.
so the word “still” bothered you that much?
What I meant is that he is moody (still means that this fact didnt change - at least for me. It takes more than 4-5 good games to change my opinion which I made through watching him since he joined).

what i said is not nonsense. It is my opinion. You can’t just go around saying things like this. You have your opinion, it doesn’t make others’ opinions are nonsense.
 

Mainoldo

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Eh? Why did he get taken off pens? It’s because he missed a third of them.

Is that a lie?

I’m not slagging Pogba here, I’m a huge Pogba fan, but making out the reason Bruno contributes more than anyone in our side when not playing well is because “pens”, isn’t telling the whole truth. Far from it.
Your right it’s not. He also plays as a 10. Pogba plays as a 6. Would he get more numbers than Bruno.. maybe not. Bruno’s an amazing stat padder. But to simple say Bruno contributes more when he literally stacks GA’s through penalties and playing the pass before the goal is pretty harsh.
 
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Your right it’s not. He also plays as a 10. Pogba plays as a 6. Would he get more numbers than Bruno.. maybe not. Bruno’s an amazing stat padder. But to simple say Bruno contributes more when he literally stacks GA’s through penalties and playing the pass before the goal is pretty harsh.
Come on man? Are you honestly saying an off form Pogba contributes as much as an off form Bruno?
Is this even a debate?

His biggest fan wouldn’t argue he puts the shift in that Bruno does when playing poorly, even without the incredible stats.
 

Mainoldo

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Come on man? Are you honestly saying an off form Pogba contributes as much as an off form Bruno?
Is this even a debate?

His biggest fan wouldn’t argue he puts the shift in that Bruno does when playing poorly, even without the incredible stats.
Yes. If he plays as a number 10 and is our penalty taker. He would too contribute the same thing. Are you saying he is incapable of providing a killer pass or scoring a penalty on an off day? I take it this is the debate.

I’m not doubting you might be a Pogba fan I like what Bruno offers so it’s not personal. I just don’t believe anyone can think a player as talented as Pogba cannot do the same thing.

What a lot of people forget is They play different positions. Pogba except for a few game under Ole has not played as advance as Bruno and you know I’m not lying. Even when fully fit we have never seen a Pogba supported by McTominay and Fred, like we have Bruno.
 
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Yes. If he plays as a number 10 and is our penalty taker. He would too contribute the same thing. Are you saying he is incapable of providing a killer pass or scoring a penalty on an off day? I take it this is the debate.
He was our penalty taker but missed a third of them, so that’s nonsense for a start.

No, the debate is their entire game on an off day, when one is working his ass off and scoring or assisting no matter how poorly he plays. When the other, on off days has been a liability and actually cost his team points. The other was even messing up the easy penalty contribution you mentioned 33.3% of the time.

Bizarre debate.

Pogba is top class, but on an off day he’s often been a liability.
 

Rozay

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An opportunity Pogba also had, but fecked up.

So the point stands, although I’m not quite sure what yours was/is?
The point was hardly confusing. You said Bruno has the ability to contribute when he has an off day, and I said that this is because he takes our pens.

If you often get the opportunity to take a free shot at goal from 12 yards then it is a lot easier to contribute regardless of how you are playing. Especially given the amount of pens we have gotten.

Given that a third of Bruno’s ‘contributions’ are from the spot makes it a little unfair to use off form contributions in comparison I feel.

This is no means a criticism of Bruno, but the particular fact is a little misleading is all. Bruno is a great penalty taker, credit to him.
 

Mainoldo

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He was our penalty taker but missed a third of them, so that’s nonsense for a start.

No, the debate is their entire game on an off day, when one is working his ass off and scoring or assisting no matter how poorly he plays. When the other, on off days has been a liability and actually cost his team points. The other was even messing up the easy penalty contribution you mentioned 33.3% of the time.

Bizarre debate.

Pogba is top class, but on an off day he’s often been a liability.
He took 12 scored 9 missed 3. How dare he. Do you know how silly you sound. So basically if we have a penalty. Pogba is likely to score 2 of 3 attempts? Sack him now!

David Batty worked his arse off. I could still tell the quality difference between him and Paul Scholes. Let’s not make this an ‘effort’ arguement. Bruno working his arse off does nothing for me if he’s not contributing to us winning. But back to my point which you’ll probably fail to answer.... are you telling me that Pogba cannot contribute for us even when having a poor game if he played the same position as Bruno and took our penalties?
 

He'sRaldo

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He was our penalty taker but missed a third of them, so that’s nonsense for a start.

No, the debate is their entire game on an off day, when one is working his ass off and scoring or assisting no matter how poorly he plays. When the other, on off days has been a liability and actually cost his team points. The other was even messing up the easy penalty contribution you mentioned 33.3% of the time.

Bizarre debate.

Pogba is top class, but on an off day he’s often been a liability.
The special thing with Bruno has always been his ability to score or assist without playing well. Most of the time he isn't playing top class, but he makes his presence known. That's why the difference between a regular game and an off day for Bruno is often whether or not he gets on the goals/ assists sheet. Very similar to Rashford this season.

Players like Pogba (or Martial f.e) often play well but don't affect the game as aggressively. Neat technique and touches, but end product not as consistent.

I'd say on an off day the latter are better due to their generally high base of football ability, but on a good day it's a toss up between the two types of players as the former type can really be devastating.
 

Rozay

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I must say that it does frustrate me that Pogba just doesn’t have the mind of a goalscorer. Technically, he is superb, and you imagine that in training, he is devastating. But on the pitch, I wish he’d be more aggressive and purposeful when it comes to scoring.

I don’t think Bruno is as good at shooting. He doesn’t have a particularly good shot from range, and his time here has highlighted that the goalkeepers in Portugal are clowns because they were flying in from 30-40 yards - but they seem to lack the power for me. That said - when Bruno is in and around the box, he shoots as if he means it. To use a Gary Neville expression - he is ‘cold’ in front of goal. Pogba, I feel he almost closes his eyes and shoots. The closer he gets to the goal, the more likely he is to snatch at it. The further away, and lower the percentage of scoring (and therefore, the responsibility of scoring) - his shooting is better. He just doesn’t have the mindset and purpose to score goals. Bruno has this in abundance. Pogba has two good feet, height and power. He should score a lot more I think, but he’s more comfortable passing than shooting I reckon. Even when in position - he’ll take the shot only if he absolutely has to. If there is a pass on, he will pass first. With Bruno, if he feels he fan score, he will shoot.
 

Rozay

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Take them away then, and his contributions are still superb.
Better than most players in Europe.
Yes, because he’s a good player, and also plays well, not just badly, and the other two thirds of his contributions are not pens! Nobody is disputing that Bruno is also a good player.
 

mattsville

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He is playing well now, big improvement, is that because he sees we are challenging and has decided this is good enough for me now or given the agent's comments and he wants out that he made peace and agreed to put in a shift if he is allowed to leave in the Summer, I don't mind either scenario as long as he continues like this for the rest of the campaign.
 

Rozay

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He is playing well now, big improvement, is that because he sees we are challenging and has decided this is good enough for me now or given the agent's comments and he wants out that he made peace and agreed to put in a shift if he is allowed to leave in the Summer, I don't mind either scenario as long as he continues like this for the rest of the campaign.
He’s playing well because he’s a good footballer. Good footballers will often play well. I’m not sure why there needs to be some sort of conspiracy behind it. Why is Martial not playing well at the moment? And why did he play well last season? This is football.

A player can never win if they perform well and we start getting insinuation of some sort of selfishness behind it. Players play well sometimes, and I think the coincidence of our good players looking like good players when our team looks to be heading in the right direction is hardly unusual. Majority of our players are playing well at the moment, and as a result, we are top of the league. Is Pogba supposed to be doing otherwise under normal circumstances?
 

lex talionis

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I'm still in the "when he's up for it" camp when it comes to Pogba. Brilliant? Of course he is. You can't be a key player for a WC winning side and not be class. But he's up for it now and we're seeing substantially better performances from him. Long may his interest last.
 

criticalanalysis

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The special thing with Bruno has always been his ability to score or assist without playing well. Most of the time he isn't playing top class, but he makes his presence known. That's why the difference between a regular game and an off day for Bruno is often whether or not he gets on the goals/ assists sheet. Very similar to Rashford this season.

Players like Pogba (or Martial f.e) often play well but don't affect the game as aggressively. Neat technique and touches, but end product not as consistent.

I'd say on an off day the latter are better due to their generally high base of football ability, but on a good day it's a toss up between the two types of players as the former type can really be devastating.
I don't want to get into too much detail but I'd imagine if we had a team set up so Pogba was getting the ball in the middle of the pitch more often, he would be having plenty of end of product. When he was playing with Fellani/Lingard in front of him, he was still creating lots for your Zlatans and Lukakus.

I've said in this thread before but imagine if Pogba from deep was giving Pogba the ball in the opposition third?

Pogba is a elite chance creator and a very efficient/effective one. Whether he is a great midfielder in a two or as a 10, or how does he compare to Bruno are entirely different questions.
 
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Maths probably not your best subject.
hmmm....

I let your shit maths slip earlier as it actually backed up my point more, as I personally thought he’d only taken 9 pens for us, but after that last post... I gotta do it.

Sorry man :lol:

He took 12 scored 9 missed 3. How dare he. Do you know how silly you sound. So basically if we have a penalty. Pogba is likely to score 2 of 3 attempts?
 

Rozay

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Bailly looks devastated :( You can see why every player has only good things to say about him.
He genuinely seems like a good man, whatever anyone may think of him as a footballer. Even every opponent is glowing. Part of the reason why I find the personal slander quite disappointing. People have all sorts of theories about nasty games he’s trying to play, ‘when he comes back he’ll try because he wants to go to the Euros’, then ‘he’s only playing well for a move’ and the rest of the Pogba is the anti-Christ stuff just doesn’t fit to me.

The man has spent the bast majority of his career at United, including much of his formative years, yet some really try to convince themselves that he hates United so that they can mitigate hating him.
 

Mainoldo

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hmmm....

I let your shit maths slip earlier as it actually backed up my point more, as I personally thought he’d only taken 9 pens for us, but after that last post... I gotta do it.

Sorry man :lol:
You said he misses 1/3 of his penalties? That’s where the 2/3 came from. Come on man:)
 

Berbasbullet

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He genuinely seems like a good man, whatever anyone may think of him as a footballer. Even every opponent is glowing. Part of the reason why I find the personal slander quite disappointing. People have all sorts of theories about nasty games he’s trying to play, ‘when he comes back he’ll try because he wants to go to the Euros’, then ‘he’s only playing well for a move’ and the rest of the Pogba is the anti-Christ stuff just doesn’t fit to me.

The man has spent the bast majority of his career at United, including much of his formative years, yet some really try to convince themselves that he hates United so that they can mitigate hating him.
Innit, I feel like Pogba is a great example of how the media and narrative can make a difference in what people think about a person. I only ever see positivity from him and no one ever seems to say anything bad about the bloke.
 

Lewnited

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He genuinely seems like a good man, whatever anyone may think of him as a footballer. Even every opponent is glowing. Part of the reason why I find the personal slander quite disappointing. People have all sorts of theories about nasty games he’s trying to play, ‘when he comes back he’ll try because he wants to go to the Euros’, then ‘he’s only playing well for a move’ and the rest of the Pogba is the anti-Christ stuff just doesn’t fit to me.

The man has spent the bast majority of his career at United, including much of his formative years, yet some really try to convince themselves that he hates United so that they can mitigate hating him.
Yeah agree with this, footballers around the world regardless of their age and status seem to warm to him, and quite literally everyone aside from Jose and a bunch of pundits that don't know him have nothing but good things to say about him. His agent is an idiot, but Pogba seems like a very good guy.

I think the narrative about him turning up when he feels like it isn't accurate, in reality he's just been inconsistent in his time here which for me can be largely attributed to our team as a whole being inconsistent during Mourinho's tenure. If Pogba didn't turn up 3 years ago the only consistent match winner we had was Lukaku. Now, we have Bruno, Cavani, Greenwood and a much improved Martial/Rashford who have all proven they can win a match for us.
 
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You said he misses 1/3 of his penalties? That’s where the 2/3 came from. Come on man:)
I mean you wrote exactly this:

He took 12 scored 9 missed 3. How dare he. Do you know how silly you sound. So basically if we have a penalty. Pogba is likely to score 2 of 3 attempts?
Is was there for you to, in your typical tone, say, "no you dummy, he doesn't miss 1/3, he actually scores 3 of 4 attempts."

And then you had the gall to call out my Maths :lol: You'd actually written down the stats and one sentence later you fecked up the ratio and your chance for a big "win" in the debate. :drool:
 
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