[kouroux]

Now that I have seen it mentioned twice at least, who are those fanbois who say Pogba can do no wrong and that he's the best thing since sliced bread ?

 

[Jeppers7]

The over reaction to Pogba here will always amaze me.

As a fan base, we just cannot be objective with Pogba at all. people either think he's world class or total garbage.

This Pogba debate is just a shambles and not productive whatsoever.

I knew before I read half of the comments here it would be people over hyping him and stating he cant do wrong and he's the best player ever etc. usual tripe.

So Pogba against Fulham - top class goal - absolutely cannot argue with that, but bar that he was pretty much 5/10. Wasn't horrendous, wasn't great. The goal made his performance seem better than it was, which probably means he probably kicked his performance to a 7/10.

So why dont I rate him a 10/10 v Fulham? Easy - he wasn't that good. Fred had a better game in the middle of the park. Pogba done some nice things, he also gave the ball away cheaply, tried way to many long balls that didnt come off and played with no tempo whatsoever. He's so slow on the ball it's unreal.

He didnt control the midfield or set us up or play with tempo or anything. He can never be considered world class playing central midfield because he cannot dictate games. He relies on others too much to be considered an elite level player.

The pain you are feeling is real

 

[Rozay]

Finally looks to have shaken off his injury/Covid issues from the past year or so, and looks every bit the player we hoped for. Joy to watch, and can cover all aspects of the game.

With Spain being a non-starter money wise for him, it's really only Juve or PSG who could be in for him. I'm sort of hoping that, with a strong second half of the season, we can convince him to commit to another deal.

A few months ago I wouldn't have been too sore over the idea of him leaving. Now it would really push as back on the progress Ole has made. Especially as replacements like Grealish/Rice/Maddison would probably cost more than what we'd get for Pogba!

He seems to have an affinity for Juve but my guess is that he always wanted to go to Spain. Not for some particular love for Spain, but I think having won Serie A, he came back here and wanted to win the PL, before hopefully trying to go and win La Liga. Which is fair enough tbh.

I do think there’s probably a little extra motivation at the moment as he’s determined to win a PL title with us. I get the impression that it would make all the years here a bit of a waste to him if he were to leave here without a title.

 

[groovyalbert]

He seems to have an affinity for Juve but my guess is that he always wanted to go to Spain. Not for some particular love for Spain, but I think having won Serie A, he came back here and wanted to win the PL, before hopefully trying to go and win La Liga. Which is fair enough tbh.

I do think there’s probably a little extra motivation at the moment as he’s determined to win a PL title with us. I get the impression that it would make all the years here a bit of a waste to him if he were to leave here without a title.

His issue here will be the fact both Real and Barca are totally skint.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

He doesn’t earn £350k a week.

And he is amongst the best midfielders in the league anyway.

I must have misread , when you said he is among the best midfielders in the league, I thought you meant he performed as well as the best midfielders in the league. Did you mean performance aside, just raw talent and ignoring his 4 or 5 seasons of performance he is among the best midfielders in the league, or did you mean something different again.

It is confusing but based on performances I simply don't think he has been one of the best midfielders in the league. I could accept it maybe based on something that isn't performances , like talent, tallness, frenchness

 

[Oldyella]

Hopefully Pogba is hitting the peak at his age and we can agree a new contract with him.

The last thing we want is after signing the contract he will revert back to his old self. And year in year out his agent will run his mouth that Pogba want to go RM or Juve.

It's why I would be very cautious about agreeing a new contract now. Everything's going well so dont change it. Still leaves us a year and aside from him holding tight and leaving on a free not sure many clubs would be looking to spend big.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

A lot of high emotion in here. I have a pogba jersey and am a big fan. I think saying to build a team around him is ridiculous though, and will just lead to poorly thought out critisicm of the club down the line. He is expensive , inconsistent and wants to leave, that is beyond doubt. My belief is that for a double pivot system we could upgrade, there are better double pivot players in the world. Calls to build the team around him seem silly with this in mind

 

[kouroux]

It's why I would be very cautious about agreeing a new contract now. Everything's going well so dont change it. Still leaves us a year and aside from him holding tight and leaving on a free not sure many clubs would be looking to spend big.

Good point.

 

[Rozay]

I must have misread , when you said he is among the best midfielders in the league, I thought you meant he performed as well as the best midfielders in the league. Did you mean performance aside, just raw talent and ignoring his 4 or 5 seasons of performance he is among the best midfielders in the league, or did you mean something different again.

It is confusing but based on performances I simply don't think he has been one of the best midfielders in the league. I could accept it maybe based on something that isn't performances , like talent, tallness, frenchness

Interesting.

He’s looking on course to make his second team of the season this year of he keeps it up, out of 5, of which one he spent absent for most of it. Although that will be based on his Frenchness, of course.

In Pogba’s 150 games for us, he’s been bad in about 140 if you listen to the caf. If of course, we are talking ‘performances’ alone.

 

[Mcking]

fecking this, haha. But you can't do with reason and stats around here.

Thought Raiola said he was done with the club too. How does he still play for us, and why do we still start him ahead of other players who actually want to be at the club?

 

[Drogon27]

What people here need to know is that you aint going to win the title without Paul Pogba, regardless you wont believe he is world class or not.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Thought Raiola said he was done with the club too. How does he still play for us, and why do we still start him ahead of other players who actually want to be at the club?

Yeah, he should have been kicked in the street, naked.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

Extremely talented player... sign him up on a 4+1 deal! (I think wages will be a problem thou. Seems we are trying to reduce our high wages)

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Interesting.

He’s looking on course to make his second team of the season this year of he keeps it up, out of 5, of which one he spent absent for most of it. Although that will be based on his Frenchness, of course.

In Pogba’s 150 games for us, he’s been bad in about 140 if you listen to the caf. If of course, we are talking ‘performances’ alone.

I don't think you can credibly argue he has been on the same level as kdb over long period of time. You can make new straw men but that is the bench mark to be among the best midfielders in the league

 

[TsuWave]

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[dwd]

Interesting stat, he has now scored the exact same number of league goals (28) in 124 appearances for both Juve & United.

 

[Jeppers7]

Just looking through his form and typically of him, he’s on a long spell of generally good performances. The benefit he’s having this time is that the team is getting better results. So the odd game he wins for us is great. When he’s MOTM it’s great. But now those games when he plays well but doesn’t win us the game, or isn’t absolutely outstanding aren’t costing us like they have in the past. An awful lot of good individual performances in the past have been swept under the carpet when the team haven’t got the result. Times when the whole team have been awful and he’s been the best of a bad bunch...he’s actually been criticised for.

Here’s my take on his form over the past two months -


Fulham scored winner world class goal. Excellent performance.
Burnley scored winner MOTM
Villa involved in first goal, won penalty for second, played very well.
Sheff Utd great assist to put us in front. Involved in build up for third goal. Excellent.
West Ham scored worldie to get us back level. Best player in first half also. Great game.

Liverpool 0-0 along with Luke shaw our best players
Wolves 0-0 played well, one of the only decent players
City 0-2 played well, one of the only decent players
City 0-0 same again.
Leipzig outstanding when he came on, nearly dragged us through.
Everton 2-0 best player on the pitch
Leicester sub poor when he came on.

So this is a twelve game run and people are still talking like he’s just started playing well. At this point it’s fair to ask....where would we be without him? Certainly we wouldn’t be top of the league and our form since December would look worse. We’d be anything from 6-10 points worse off.
But this is the thing for Pogba, if he isn’t outstanding or scoring winners it’s generally accepted that he’s been poor and it’s swept under the carpet. I wonder looking at other players in the squad how many have had a run of form as good as Pogba has over a 12 game period?

 

[glazed]

I wish his improved performance was a sign that he wants to make a success of being in Manchester. But my hunch is that he wants to use the rest of the season as a shop window.

 

[Conor]

I'm not one to constantly refer to stats to back up arguments, but the assertion that he has been amazing for a long time is just patently untrue. He doesn't come close to the best players in the league this year in any metric whatsoever. He simply isn't better as a complete midfielder than other players in the top teams, he doesn't defend well enough for how deep he is playing, and he doesn't produce the performances he should consistently.

How was he 'the best player against Liverpool after Shaw,' when he was consistently rated one of the worst on the pitch on various sites? Do people just not care about all of the mistakes he makes defensively, or the stupid long balls that go nowhere, or his pace of play? He was dropped at a point this season like, and seems to have only started being properly arsed since we got to the top of the league(and his agent announcing he was leaving). He is a good player, and has played well in spells recently, but some of the stuff in here is a bit much.

 

[Bobski]

You can't expect constant quality from footballers, what you can and should expect is consistent application. Bruno is the poster boy for this, his execution fluctuates wildly but his work-rate, effort and application rarely drops, it is why he has been so productive, he just keeps going, doesn't matter how he is playing, keeps makings runs, trying difficult passes and often ends up rewarded in an otherwise mediocre performance.

Pogba has long been guilty of inconsistent application, he is more talented than Bruno but he has been prone to drifting out of games if he starts poorly, going passive and static for long spells. Pogba playing with a little bit of tempo and heart is an elite player.

 

[Jeppers7]

I'm not one to constantly refer to stats to back up arguments, but the assertion that he has been amazing for a long time is just patently untrue. He doesn't come close to the best players in the league this year in any metric whatsoever. He simply isn't better as a complete midfielder than other players in the top teams, he doesn't defend well enough for how deep he is playing, and he doesn't produce the performances he should consistently.

How was he 'the best player against Liverpool after Shaw,' when he was consistently rated one of the worst on the pitch on various sites? Do people just not care about all of the mistakes he makes defensively, or the stupid long balls that go nowhere, or his pace of play? He was dropped at a point this season like, and seems to have only started being properly arsed since we got to the top of the league(and his agent announcing he was leaving). He is a good player, and has played well in spells recently, but some of the stuff in here is a bit much.

Can you just confirm that you think Pogba was one of the worst players on the pitch against Liverpool?

 

[Canadianred17]

I'm not one to constantly refer to stats to back up arguments, but the assertion that he has been amazing for a long time is just patently untrue. He doesn't come close to the best players in the league this year in any metric whatsoever. He simply isn't better as a complete midfielder than other players in the top teams, he doesn't defend well enough for how deep he is playing, and he doesn't produce the performances he should consistently.

How was he 'the best player against Liverpool after Shaw,' when he was consistently rated one of the worst on the pitch on various sites? Do people just not care about all of the mistakes he makes defensively, or the stupid long balls that go nowhere, or his pace of play? He was dropped at a point this season like, and seems to have only started being properly arsed since we got to the top of the league(and his agent announcing he was leaving). He is a good player, and has played well in spells recently, but some of the stuff in here is a bit much.

I'm curious, could you name all of the "complete midfielder(s) than other players in the top teams" that you think is better? I just want to see who you rate at that level.

 

[Conor]

You can't expect constant quality from footballers, what you can and should expect is consistent application. Bruno is the poster boy for this, his execution fluctuates wildly but his work-rate, effort and application rarely drops, it is why he has been so productive, he just keeps going, doesn't matter how he is playing, keeps makings runs, trying difficult passes and often ends up rewarded in an otherwise mediocre performance.

Pogba has long been guilty of inconsistent application, he is more talented than Bruno but he has been prone to drifting out of games if he starts poorly, going passive and static for long spells. Pogba playing with a little bit of tempo and heart is an elite player.

I agree to some extent, but when you pay a record fee for a player, a pretty high baseline is to be expected, and 100% commitment and application(as you've mentioned). Our great midfielders of the past had all of these, I don't think Pogba should be held to any less of a standard than them.

Can you just confirm that you think Pogba was one of the worst players on the pitch against Liverpool?

I could name 4/5 players that were better than him, and we didn't exactly set the world on fire in that match.

 

[lost7]

Just looking through his form and typically of him, he’s on a long spell of generally good performances. The benefit he’s having this time is that the team is getting better results. So the odd game he wins for us is great. When he’s MOTM it’s great. But now those games when he plays well but doesn’t win us the game, or isn’t absolutely outstanding aren’t costing us like they have in the past. An awful lot of good individual performances in the past have been swept under the carpet when the team haven’t got the result. Times when the whole team have been awful and he’s been the best of a bad bunch...he’s actually been criticised for.

Here’s my take on his form over the past two months -


Fulham scored winner world class goal. Excellent performance.
Burnley scored winner MOTM
Villa involved in first goal, won penalty for second, played very well.
Sheff Utd great assist to put us in front. Involved in build up for third goal. Excellent.
West Ham scored worldie to get us back level. Best player in first half also. Great game.

Liverpool 0-0 along with Luke shaw our best players
Wolves 0-0 played well, one of the only decent players
City 0-2 played well, one of the only decent players
City 0-0 same again.
Leipzig outstanding when he came on, nearly dragged us through.
Everton 2-0 best player on the pitch
Leicester sub poor when he came on.

So this is a twelve game run and people are still talking like he’s just started playing well. At this point it’s fair to ask....where would we be without him? Certainly we wouldn’t be top of the league and our form since December would look worse. We’d be anything from 6-10 points worse off.
But this is the thing for Pogba, if he isn’t outstanding or scoring winners it’s generally accepted that he’s been poor and it’s swept under the carpet. I wonder looking at other players in the squad how many have had a run of form as good as Pogba has over a 12 game period?

Yep, I think this is a good analysis. The only thing I disagree with is the West Ham game. I thought he was as bad as everyone else in that first half, but of course he did score a screamer in the second half and started playing well once Bruno and Rashford came on.

Overall, though, yes I think most would agree he's been among our best players since December and he's been our best player with Shaw in January. And the best thing is that this has been the case no matter what position he's played in. Against Aston Villa he played on the left and was great, against Burnley and Fulham he had great output from the middle of the park and he even performed decently (or at least better than all our other attackers that day) on the right.

Honestly, where else can you find such a versatile midfielder that has all the attributes to play in any position in midfield? If only he was more consistent... but for as long as he's in this form, he's a pleasure to watch

 

[Conor]

I'm curious, could you name all of the "complete midfielder(s) than other players in the top teams" that you think is better? I just want to see who you rate at that level.

I personally think Liverpool and City's midfielders do a more comprehensive job for their team on a regular basis than Pogba does for us. I do not think they are more talented than him, but I think the effort and overall job they do contributes more to their teams. I am talking about the last couple of years, not in this recent period of good form that Pogba is having(how many times have we seen this before?). I think we could lose Pogba, and replace him with a slightly less talented, more consistent midfielder and end up a better team. That's just my opinion, it is worth very little!

 

[Murray3007]

Some players get beaten with the most ridiculous sticks Why would he follow a man behind our defensive line while we play an offside trap?

Anyway, good performance from him. We'll need at least one of him and Bruno stepping up at a time for us to keep this consistency going. Would love to see them both hit form at the same time though.

you follow him so that when the offside fails like it did, you have a chance to put a tackle in, rather then have no challenge at all like what happened. its the very basics of football, you think roy keane just stops there and thinks no its fine we are playing offside?

 

[Jeppers7]

I agree to some extent, but when you pay a record fee for a player, a pretty high baseline is to be expected, and 100% commitment and application(as you've mentioned). Our great midfielders of the past had all of these, I don't think Pogba should be held to any less of a standard than them.




I could name 4/5 players that were better than him, and we didn't exactly set the world on fire in that match.

Give us five then...that’d be great. Thanks.

 

[Harry190]

Don't think he'll leave anymore. Fully expect a new mildly improved contract to be signed within 2 months.

 

[Rozay]

I don't think you can credibly argue he has been on the same level as kdb over long period of time. You can make new straw men but that is the bench mark to be among the best midfielders in the league

You say ‘straw man’, but your continued response to me saying that Pogba is amongst the best midfielders in the league is that ‘he hasn’t been as good as Kevin De Bruyne’. While I’ve tried hard not to come across rude, it has reached the point where I’m going to just have to come out and ask whether you know what ‘amongst the best’ means. Because you appear to have an unusual interpretation of it as ‘better than Kevin de Bruyne’.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Hopefully he has the proper motivation to continue with his current form, because when he's good he's incredible. So much talent and physicallity its hard to think about a more complete player in his position.

 

[Andersonson]

Bruno has made him a proper player again. If he slacks off he will get hammered now, because he aint the star anymore.

IF he continues to apply himself in the same way, I don't mind him staying. But its Pogba, you never know.

I think the safest option is to sell and invest in somebody new.

 

[reddev3]

A lot of high emotion in here. I have a pogba jersey and am a big fan. I think saying to build a team around him is ridiculous though, and will just lead to poorly thought out critisicm of the club down the line. He is expensive , inconsistent and wants to leave, that is beyond doubt. My belief is that for a double pivot system we could upgrade, there are better double pivot players in the world. Calls to build the team around him seem silly with this in mind

To be honest when people say that I think they just mean buy a dedicated DM, I mean what else can you really do that would consist of building the team around him? even dropping Bruno and playing him in the number 10 every week wouldn't consist of that seeing as though his best position is a little further back.

I would love nothing more than for us to buy a Rice/Ndidi type to play alongside him and Bruno and watch them flourish, throw in a striker that is constantly making smart runs a la Haaland and you have a recipe for success.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

I wish his improved performance was a sign that he wants to make a success of being in Manchester. But my hunch is that he wants to use the rest of the season as a shop window.

He seems pretty close with Martial, Rashy, Bailly, Lingard and a few others. I see him signing a new contract in March/April. He was talking about contracts only a few months ago. It could still happen.

 

[SambaBoy]

I still think he's regressed. Seems to have lost a lot of dynamism since he's joined and the ability to pull of them unreal passes.

He's still a top class player now, and I will happily sacrifice some of his now and again unreal ability for more consistency. Hopefully he can keep up this good form and become even better.

 

[kouroux]

Bruno has made him a proper player again. If he slacks off he will get hammered now, because he aint the star anymore.

IF he continues to apply himself in the same way, I don't mind him staying. But its Pogba, you never know.

I think the safest option is to sell and invest in somebody new.

Why don't just say that Bruno will put him on the bench while you're at it ?

 

[The_Midfielder]

I personally think Liverpool and City's midfielders do a more comprehensive job for their team on a regular basis than Pogba does for us. I do not think they are more talented than him, but I think the effort and overall job they do contributes more to their teams. I am talking about the last couple of years, not in this recent period of good form that Pogba is having(how many times have we seen this before?). I think we could lose Pogba, and replace him with a slightly less talented, more consistent midfielder and end up a better team. That's just my opinion, it is worth very little!

Pogba has been doing a lot of dirty work recently... Go back and rewatch the Burnley and Sheffield United games.. He has been there for defensive headers.. for the 2nd ball..

 

[roonster09]

Bruno has made him a proper player again. If he slacks off he will get hammered now, because he aint the star anymore.

Bruno will make sure everyone is vaccinated in real quick time, if anyone slacks off, Bruno will hammer them.

 

[1nil]

I know he has been doing/saying the right things for a couple of weeks now but he has been angling for a move for such a long time time now. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

That goal was the best for me this season though.

 

[jackal&hyde]

He has been fantastic as of late. Can't help but feel DVB is part of the reason why he is so much better; similar to Shaw and Telles. Players usually need competition to be at their best.

 

[GueRed]

the last 3 games he has stood up tall for the team.

need more of this please

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