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2020-21 Performances


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AltiUn

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Another thing, and maybe it’s just me - but I also feel when watching him as one of the most skilful players in the game, a great sense of pride in that ‘this came from our academy’. I remember watching Pogba on MUTV every week as a kid. And I think, personally, that it makes me even more proud to have a player of his profile come from our academy. Over the last few decades the insinuation is always that English clubs produce homegrown hardworking future captain runners and supplement them with supreme gifted signings from abroad. I’m proud that this kind of quality was in our youth set up, albeit not from the age of 8.
I always find it hilarious when rival fans try to claim he's not from our academy. As United fans we're almost spoiled rotten having produced Pogba, Rashford and Greenwood and have them all playing in the same team.
 

Rozay

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I think this is where a lot of the Pogba hatred stems from actually. He was one of our own, left the club rather doing it the "United way" (for betterment of his career) and then the club paid a huge fee to bring him back. They've never been able to get over that he left the club.
Yes that’s probably true. He certainly doesn’t get academy product privileges anyway. We’ve produced far worse players like McTominay, Tuanzebe and Williams who many people have far more time for, as you said, because we didn’t have to spend big money to buy them back.

I wonder if it is like that at Barcelona. They make a point to buy back any academy player who becomes good enough, but I felt their fans didn’t connect with Fabregas in the same way. Pique and Alba have been heroes though.
 

roonster09

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Yes that’s probably true. He certainly doesn’t get academy product privileges anyway. We’ve produced far worse players like McTominay, Tuanzebe and Williams who many people have far more time for, as you said, because we didn’t have to spend big money to buy them back.

I wonder if it is like that at Barcelona. They make a point to buy back any academy player who becomes good enough, but I felt their fans didn’t connect with Fabregas in the same way. Pique and Alba have been heroes though.
Tbf McTominay gets lot of shit too, it's just that since you don't rate that player, you just skim past thee posts without even realizing it (maybe). Just like any other player, there are few posters who rate him highly but his thread is full of criticism too.
 

Canagel

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What on earth is going on with his contract situation? Is he staying or going? Understandable if he wants a change of scenery given it has been an up-and-down experience for Pogba since coming back, but it'd be a damn shame if he were to leave now. It's the first time we've been a resolute and functional side since he joined, really. This team definitely has a few more levels it can reach too, and Pogba could be a big part of that. Please don't go big pauly p
He will leave.
United have not challenged for the league for almost 10 years and are not close to winning the Champions League in the near future. Despite the claims of progress by our fans we are still a Europa League team. there is no guarantee we will not be playing Europa again next year too.

It is more risky for Pogba to stay.
He is getting older and time is running out to win the Champions League, which is the probably the main target for Pogba.

And epecially because we are talking about a proven gamechanger. This isn't a player that will go on the bench but will start for any of the contending teams and make them favourites whether it's Madrid, PSG or whoever. A gamechanger.

United need about 5 pieces and a new manager to win the Champions League. It makes no sense for Pogba to stay when Pogba himself can be the final piece for someone to win the Champions League.

And Domestically while Pep is still in the league the Premier League is not a realistic target.

For the club it is important because the future without Pogba looks very bad but for his point of view and his career I think it is the right time to change teams. Winning a European trophy is the perfect way to leave
 

Shimo

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I know he it a bit of tongue in cheek his comments about learning to tackle but, wonder if actually realizes that it's a part of his game he needs to at least do better in terms of thinking. Often gives away needless fouls near our box trying some of his tackles. Ole had to have said something at half time because he said both goals were school boy errors.

Missed the game and only caught the videos of the goals. For the 1st goal, that has been him in a lot of ways recently. The size married with the skill/ability is on another level. When you see what happens when Bruno either is having an off game or gets marked out like against Leeds, having Pogba makes such a huge difference in our ability to still create in the middle of the park.
 

Rozay

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Tbf McTominay gets lot of shit too, it's just that since you don't rate that player, you just skim past thee posts without even realizing it (maybe). Just like any other player, there are few posters who rate him highly but his thread is full of criticism too.
He does get shit, just as Pogba gets praise by some. But I’ve always said, his performance thread is a contradiction to wherever he is mentioned in any other thread on this forum. He isn’t that good, and if you read his performance thread, many people cannot help but say that. However, when you move across the forums to another thread, you see all sorts of hyperbole written about him. This is because, in my view, the conversation has moved around being centred on raw performance data, and becomes more general and to me, more sentimentally driven. People like him, and when not linking comments to how he played in any given game, there’s always an extra 15% added to the player he is. Oddly, there’s less of that in his actual performance thread! He is often criticised after almost ever game, then in a different thread, often referenced as a symbol of consistency and reliability. I think that is more because people have ‘more time’ for him, as I put it. I think, if the general narrative amongst our fans towards PP was a little more fond, to where you start adding a little ‘own player’ bias - there’s more than enough there for the consensus to be that he’s brilliant.

And even the performance thread talk is perhaps more recent. I remember being something of a lone voice going back in McTominay threads from seasons gone by, but I’ve largely stopped all that for fear of coming across as a crusader! Similar with Tuanzebe. I think opinion is changing on Scott now to us needing an upgrade, as opposed to the ‘build the team around him’ talk from not too long ago.
 

Rossa

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In the interview, he was joking that he can't tackle because he's given away so many penalties this year and that obviously he needs to improve as he doesn't want to give away penalties.

After joking that he probably just shouldn't tackle at all, he then said he needs to practice tackling without using his arms but he seemed a bit perplexed and relieved as it didn't affect the result. This was all quite light-hearted as we'd won well and didn't seem like serious analysis at all. It was quite a funny interview.

Was there another interview, where he said he was clumsy in that instance with the handball?
I just read the Norwegian translation, where both he and Solskjær said it was clumsy, as it was. Looking at Carvajal sliding to block a cross, he put his hands on his back. Pogba waves his arms around like a maniac, and even if it is natural, a footballer needs to think about those things. Solskjær called it amateurish.
 

meamth

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He will leave.
United have not challenged for the league for almost 10 years and are not close to winning the Champions League in the near future. Despite the claims of progress by our fans we are still a Europa League team. there is no guarantee we will not be playing Europa again next year too.

It is more risky for Pogba to stay.
He is getting older and time is running out to win the Champions League, which is the probably the main target for Pogba.

And epecially because we are talking about a proven gamechanger. This isn't a player that will go on the bench but will start for any of the contending teams and make them favourites whether it's Madrid, PSG or whoever. A gamechanger.

United need about 5 pieces and a new manager to win the Champions League. It makes no sense for Pogba to stay when Pogba himself can be the final piece for someone to win the Champions League.

And Domestically while Pep is still in the league the Premier League is not a realistic target.

For the club it is important because the future without Pogba looks very bad but for his point of view and his career I think it is the right time to change teams. Winning a European trophy is the perfect way to leave
No.
 

Raven

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You do realize that management techniques are applicable across many fields, right? For example, if you're a drug-kingpin, and there's this talented but dangerous uppity low-level dealer who thinks he should be in charge of more than he is, and you test his loyalty out by giving more product to someone who everyone knows is inferior to him and he flips out, then you know where his priorities lie.

If you can't grasp that, don't worry about it.

@Solius, keep in mind, this is exactly the type of cringey stuff that you have to realize isn't nou_camp vacillating and 'avoiding'. There's no way anyone can consistenly respond to non-sequiturs/strawmen like this. I gave the iniesta thing as an example of specifically how like nou_camp can't possibly respond and someone just takes it literally and comes in with maximum derpage thinking I was arguing that, too. Totally understand moderating isn't easy. Just saying that across the past few pages, nou_camp was being very consistent and not avoiding/ignoring. I understand I may not have seen long-term abusive behavior on his/her part.
Try reading back what you just wrote. You're comparing Fergie to drug-kingpins to make your point. Do you not see how ridiculous you're being?
 

hungrywing

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Try reading back what you just wrote. You're comparing Fergie to drug-kingpins to make your point. Do you not see how ridiculous you're being?

Sorry, Original actually tried to present some thoughts. Your last two posts (including this one) don't at all. There's no way to respond to your level of non-thought.
 

roonster09

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He does get shit, just as Pogba gets praise by some. But I’ve always said, his performance thread is a contradiction to wherever he is mentioned in any other thread on this forum. He isn’t that good, and if you read his performance thread, many people cannot help but say that. However, when you move across the forums to another thread, you see all sorts of hyperbole written about him. This is because, in my view, the conversation has moved around being centred on raw performance data, and becomes more general and to me, more sentimentally driven. People like him, and when not linking comments to how he played in any given game, there’s always an extra 15% added to the player he is. Oddly, there’s less of that in his actual performance thread! He is often criticised after almost ever game, then in a different thread, often referenced as a symbol of consistency and reliability.

And even the performance thread is perhaps more recent. I remember being something of a lone voice going back in McTominay threads from seasons gone by, but I’ve largely stopped all that for fear of coming across as a crusader! Similar with Tuanzebe.
Or maybe they rate McTominay higher than you do. They see a future player in him which others might not.

Also timing is always the key. When you see "What's our best midfield", form and timing is very key. I think one of the thread started when Pogba was in poor run of form, where he was completely exhausted due to Covid and then the talk about him leaving. Whether we agree or not, timing always plays the part along with few external factors.

We have Pogba appreciation thread, plenty of posters praise him. Then you have threads like Fred and McTominay are worst CM in top half of the league. There are people who think McTominay should be our future captain and then there are few who think McTominay wouldn't make our previous squad when Gibson was getting lot of mins.

IMO lot of our players are unfairly rated especially when compared to inferior players.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
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Bailly done
Cavani done?
Pogba next?

Lets get it done....
 

Rozay

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Or maybe they rate McTominay higher than you do. They see a future player in him which others might not.

Also timing is always the key. When you see "What's our best midfield", form and timing is very key. I think one of the thread started when Pogba was in poor run of form, where he was completely exhausted due to Covid and then the talk about him leaving. Whether we agree or not, timing always plays the part along with few external factors.

We have Pogba appreciation thread, plenty of posters praise him. Then you have threads like Fred and McTominay are worst CM in top half of the league. There are people who think McTominay should be our future captain and then there are few who think McTominay wouldn't make our previous squad when Gibson was getting lot of mins.

IMO lot of our players are unfairly rated especially when compared to inferior players.
Yea, guess so.
 

Lemansky

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Not Pogbas biggest fan mainly because of Raiolas actions who is a mouthpiece for his client.

That being said he is in great form atm, concentrated, committed and showing very good attitude.

Not going into discussing his talent as he obviously is one of the best players in the world on form. I just hope he can show it more often and more consistent if he signs a new contract. And I do hope he signs a new contract
 

Raven

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Sorry, Original actually tried to present some thoughts. Your last two posts (including this one) don't at all. There's no way to respond to your level of non-thought.
You don't see how ridiculous you're being then. Best of luck.
 

Harry Harries

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He will leave.
United have not challenged for the league for almost 10 years and are not close to winning the Champions League in the near future. Despite the claims of progress by our fans we are still a Europa League team. there is no guarantee we will not be playing Europa again next year too.

It is more risky for Pogba to stay.
He is getting older and time is running out to win the Champions League, which is the probably the main target for Pogba.

And epecially because we are talking about a proven gamechanger. This isn't a player that will go on the bench but will start for any of the contending teams and make them favourites whether it's Madrid, PSG or whoever. A gamechanger.

United need about 5 pieces and a new manager to win the Champions League. It makes no sense for Pogba to stay when Pogba himself can be the final piece for someone to win the Champions League.

And Domestically while Pep is still in the league the Premier League is not a realistic target.

For the club it is important because the future without Pogba looks very bad but for his point of view and his career I think it is the right time to change teams. Winning a European trophy is the perfect way to leave
I disagree with a lot of this. We aren't Spurs and we aren't far off being genuine challengers. We are just a few pieces of the puzzle away. I don't think any sides in Europe is a million miles away to be honest, Man City are probably the most consistently able side and they are further along in their development as a team than we are. It doesn't feel insurmountable, though, assuming we do the right sort of business this summer.
 

Grande

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For people who still don't understand, SAF had him pegged from the get go. The Rafael/Park-in-midfield game for example was a very specific test for narcissistic traits, and he failed it. The derp-derp-but-SAF-offered-him-a-contract-obviously-he-wanted-him-to-stay-derp-derp people don't understand that SAF knew that contract would be turned down.
Is this personal speculation or do you have some sources on this? It’s quite a specific theory. Has Ferguson gone on record saying this? Or is it rumours?
 

Adam-Utd

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People like to conviently ignore he was our best player in his first season under Mourinho when things were all good.

2nd season they fell out and he was publically alienated, and had his character assassinated. Mourinho made the fans turn against him and he even got booed against Cardiff.

No wonder his performances took a dip, the guy was clearly very unhappy being here at that point. He felt no support from his manager or the fans, the press and every pundit took Mourinho's side, so why would he be giving 110%?. Whether we like it or not this is a guy that was deemed world class coming back to a club he loved, he'd just won 3/4 league titles in a row. Of course he had a bit of an attitude.

We filled him in a team with dross and expected him to win games by himself from the 6 position.

Fast forward a few years, he's now got a manager that loves him and supports him 100%, and a team that can back him up and take the game on themselves if he's having an off day. The improvement is no coincidence.

I suspect he's waiting to see the fans reaction to him before he signs a new deal, if he gets the support he deserves, he stays. He looks very happy here, he's working very hard and most importantly enjoying himself. The team is on the up and I think we have a great chance of big success.
 

MattofManchester

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For people who still don't understand, SAF had him pegged from the get go. The Rafael/Park-in-midfield game for example was a very specific test for narcissistic traits, and he failed it. The derp-derp-but-SAF-offered-him-a-contract-obviously-he-wanted-him-to-stay-derp-derp people don't understand that SAF knew that contract would be turned down.
You realize the big dude himself said he had wanted him to stay, but the sticking point became the agent in his ear.

Never did he blame Pogba. Only the agent.

Any wonder who that was?
 

hungrywing

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You realize the big dude himself said he had wanted him to stay, but the sticking point became the agent in his ear.

Never did he blame Pogba. Only the agent.

Any wonder who that was?
Go back and read where all that is covered. If you can't/don't understand where everything you've brought up here is addressed, don't worry about ti.
 

Craig Ward

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I've always, always said we need to play Pogba further up the pitch to see the best out of him.

We've tried and tried to make it work at CM/DM for him - and it hasnt worked which has led to this insane debate among fans on whether Pogba is actually any good.

It's simple - Pogba is a talented player. Sadly, he has not performed to the best of his ability for us. Not even close. But we are still divided as a fan base - i;ve never seen such debate over one player before.

Simply put, we signed him for an insane fee to be the driving force of our midfield, someone we could build a team around. He was supposed to run games from the middle of the park and be an influencer - someone who dictated games for us. So in a nutshell - that hasn't worked at all. He's not improved as a player - he's not become the player we would have hoped. From that viewpoint - I understand why he's not loved or over hyped by our fans. From that viewpoint - he hasn't been a good signing at all.

Given that and his agent/brother and the media drama he causes - I completely get why he is criticised.

He has the talent - he just never lives up to it. He's never played consistently well for us at the position we played him. He's an unreliable central midfield player, way too many flaws in his game. We've played him in multiple positions, with multiple different players and he still hasn't performed well as a CM/DM for us.

What frustrates me is he has the talent - but he still makes mistakes. So either it's a concentration issue, or commitment issue. Either way - he's a flop as a central midfield player.

Now he's had a few good games on the LW for us - he looks a bit of a better option to have around the squad. When your "main man" in central midfield is showing good form on the LW, you have to question why we have persisted for so long with him playing so deep?

I cant see him playing LW long term for us, seeing as we've always played him centrally. So all this good form will mean nothing when he keeps letting his runners go from DM and having mare after mare like usual.

I'm personally done with Pogba here. Sick of the debate, sick of the media drama around him. Hope he goes. Our club will survive, he's not all that. Dont get me wrong I enjoy the good things he does - his link up and close control was great against Roma and he fully deserved his goal but season after season he's left me wondering when he's going to become an elite player. He's not. A parting of the ways will be better for club and player
 

Jeppers7

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I see.

For whatever it's worth, bolded part I'd understand. The other points, I don't see it at least in the past few pages. He/she's been very consistent across them. It's actually the other posters who are 'twisting and turning' and putting words in his/her mouth i.e. he/she argues that for the money Pogba should be scoring/assisting more; other posters: derp-derp-well-did-INieSta-score-lots-huh.

It's important to remember this is a player who's behaved horrendously towards the club, and worst of all, did so in a cowardly fashion via his agent. This tells you loads about the player's personality.

For people who still don't understand, SAF had him pegged from the get go. The Rafael/Park-in-midfield game for example was a very specific test for narcissistic traits, and he failed it. The derp-derp-but-SAF-offered-him-a-contract-obviously-he-wanted-him-to-stay-derp-derp people don't understand that SAF knew that contract would be turned down.
.

Sending Rio and Evra to talk to him was particularly genius then briefing that the club expected Pogba was going to stay (SAF was like Mr Miaggi in his genius mindgame testing ways)
 

DickDastardly

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I had my fair share of sticks and stones thrown at him, but, he's really growing on me.

He looks calm, untroubled, like he has accepted the fact that he's a Manchester United player and he's going nowhere.
Maybe it's Ole doing a really good man managment on him, maybe it's Bruno who's really shined as a good team leader and maybe taken the burden of Paul's back.

But to be fair, he's been outstanding lately. He's shown grit and determination, no more lazy strutting along the center line, he's using his abilities to the best, no more constantly searching for the Hollywood pass, he glides past players with the ball at his feet, smart movement....it's all coming together.

I have a feeling he will stay. Maybe it's corona, you know, a lot of people just realizing what is really important, and a sense of belonging.
 

MattofManchester

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Go back and read where all that is covered. If you can't/don't understand where everything you've brought up here is addressed, don't worry about ti.
I was distracted by the derping.

Nevertheless, it's a long stretch to call him unprofessional to the club. Unprofessional to Mourinho? Yes. Vice versa? Yes.
To the club? He's always behaved professionally and respected his role here.
He seems like a genuinely professional guy, but that is at odds with his agent.
Raiola, while being a massive cnut, is ultimately still doing what he deems best for his client. And if Pogba has decided to leave, Mino has sounded that out in his usual shitty ways.
While I have always hated Raiola, I do understand that him telling Raiola to tone it down would defeat the purpose of that guy being his agent. His mercenary like behavior is precisely why he picks up clients in the first place.

Long story short, I don't think the behavior of the individual should be associated with the behavior of his agent. Saying Pogba has treated the club horrendously during his time here is a bit much.
 

Bilbo

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With his form on the left hand side and Greenwood emerging into the player that he is and playing better on the right, we might actually be seeing Rashford having to fight for a first team spot on occasion, which will do him a lot of good I think
 

Jeppers7

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You do realize that management techniques are applicable across many fields, right? For example, if you're a drug-kingpin, and there's this talented but dangerous uppity low-level dealer who thinks he should be in charge of more than he is, and you test his loyalty out by giving more product to someone who everyone knows is inferior to him and he flips out, then you know where his priorities lie.

If you can't grasp that, don't worry about it.

@Solius, keep in mind, this is exactly the type of cringey stuff that you have to realize isn't nou_camp vacillating and 'avoiding'. There's no way anyone can consistenly respond to non-sequiturs/strawmen like this. I gave the iniesta thing as an example of specifically how like nou_camp can't possibly respond and someone just takes it literally and comes in with maximum derpage thinking I was arguing that, too. Totally understand moderating isn't easy. Just saying that across the past few pages, nou_camp was being very consistent and not avoiding/ignoring. I understand I may not have seen long-term abusive behavior on his/her part.
Watched Breaking Bad....Understands Sir Alex.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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He will leave.
United have not challenged for the league for almost 10 years and are not close to winning the Champions League in the near future. Despite the claims of progress by our fans we are still a Europa League team. there is no guarantee we will not be playing Europa again next year too.
2nd with 5 games to go and as good as in the europa final, we are in the CL next season
It is more risky for Pogba to stay.

He is getting older and time is running out to win the Champions League, which is the probably the main target for Pogba.

And epecially because we are talking about a proven gamechanger. This isn't a player that will go on the bench but will start for any of the contending teams and make them favourites whether it's Madrid, PSG or whoever. A gamechanger.

United need about 5 pieces and a new manager to win the Champions League. It makes no sense for Pogba to stay when Pogba himself can be the final piece for someone to win the Champions League.
What utter horse shit, GK is sorted, Ed likely staying on for another year, a CB and midfielder, and on our day we can beat anyone. CL is a cup competition, with the bounce in confidence winning the europa can bring, anything is possible next season
And Domestically while Pep is still in the league the Premier League is not a realistic target.
If we hadnt lost pogba through injury at the worst time, and had martial been able to kit a cows arse with a banjo we would have run them damn close this season.
For the club it is important because the future without Pogba looks very bad but for his point of view and his career I think it is the right time to change teams. Winning a European trophy is the perfect way to leave
 

Godfather

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With his form on the left hand side and Greenwood emerging into the player that he is and playing better on the right, we might actually be seeing Rashford having to fight for a first team spot on occasion, which will do him a lot of good I think
Fully agreed. Don't forget Martial who will hopefully find back to some form (if he stays). Some good competition.
 

Jeppers7

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Actually never watched that show but I know what it's about. Unless what you're trying to say is that you're not smart enough to understand the analogy. Is that what you're saying? It's okay if it is.
Maybe it was all a test?
 

OleBoiii

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He was fasting and all. Great performance yesterday.
Wait, really? So food was the problem all along! I knew that fat man Raiola was a bad influence :mad:

Also: obligatory 'Ole doesn't feed his players' joke.
 

lost7

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I think those who say he's not a LW option long term are right. That position is perfect for Rashford and the lad is good enough to say he's secured it. I do think Pogba's best role would be on the left of a midfield three in a 433, which we obviously don't use so that is a bit of a problem.

So there are two ideal options in my book: we either add a top CDM (like Fabinho) who would allow us to play with two attacking midfielders in Pogba and Bruno, or we sell him and get Grealish and a CDM for the same thing.

There is no way we're doing the latter, so I'm really hoping we go with the first option. But only if he decides to sign a contract. If he doesn't, we need to sell him this summer at all cost
 

ThreeCorners

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Pogba, Bruno and Cavani were sooooo good together. They were unplayable at times. Too bad we haven't been able to implement this sooner in the season to see whether it is flash in a pan or not.
I think Pogba should be given a run at left wing, he's certainly more creative than Rashford there. I even think he might be a better dribbler.


https://www.planetfootball.com/tren...draw-blueprints-for-rooney-tevez-ronaldo-2-0/
 
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