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sammsky1

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Many "closeted" Islamophobe around here. I had suspected it but Stupid me, it took me that long to make the full connection . All the hate towards him has never made sense. Just "fans' and pundits like Souness, hiding their true feelings(islamophobia).
This is not a HATE-FREE Zone. For example there are Trump supporters around here (Mr Muslim ban himself - ). There are plenty of Manchester United fans that support Trump around here.
We can still pretend that it is all about his performances.That there is nothing deeper than that. Sure. Cheers.
I'm probably one of Pogba's earliest and biggest critics on this forum. There are so many reasons Pogba can be critiqued and I've made every one. But I've yet to ever see Pogba's religion negatively implied on this forum, only ever comes up as a factual or positive reference. I’d be all over it if it was ever even vaguely Islamaphobic.

I don't know if some of the negativity towards him is because he is black, but nowadays, I'd guess close to 50% of first team squad is black or non-white. So I also dont think this is an issue, else other black players would also be targeted. This is where allegations against Souness or Neville fall flat as stupid.

Pogba is criticised by a wide range of people for 3 key reasons:

1) Wildly inconsistent so hasn’t delivered against the hype, his transfer fee or previous form at Juve.
2) Regularly phones in with half assed performances. Lacks concentration and can be a defensive liability.
3) Disloyal and lacks commitment to the club. ie: constant flirting with Madrid, and regular shit talk from his agent and brother.

That's not to say Islamaphobia isn't a real thing: its massive in Western Europe. But I've never seen Manchester United fans use that as a reason to poke Pogba.

Basically, in my opinion, you're talking a load of crap.
 
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giggs-beckham

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I love Pogba, hes a graceful skillful player who is a red through and through. We should get behind him in my opinion, he's not perfect but he's our best player.
I love his recent stance also.
 

Khalif_20

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Excellent comments @K_Ash, it takes bravery to tell people what they're uncomfortable hearing.

The agenda against Paul reveals something sinister still lurking in certain portion of the western society and it needs to be exposed, then eradicated.
 

Steven7290

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For the record, do you think Souness would ever go after Mane and Salah? Doubt it. He sees them as the role model pros he admires. Play the game brilliantly, work hard, deliver and go home to their families while staying off social media
Don't think it's relevant to the point I'm trying to make but just for the record, I do agree he would never for the reason you stated.

This is not a HATE-FREE Zone. For example there are Trump supporters around here (Mr Muslim ban himself - ). There are plenty of Manchester United fans that support Trump around here.
We can still pretend that it is all about his performances.That there is nothing deeper than that. Sure. Cheers.
Umm okay, I tried my best.
 

rollingstoned1

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Many "closeted" Islamophobe around here. I had suspected it but Stupid me, it took me that long to make the full connection . All the hate towards him has never made sense. Just "fans' and pundits like Souness, hiding their true feelings(islamophobia).
this is kind of nonsense is a sign of how the general discourse has degenerated these days.
 

CG1010

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Many "closeted" Islamophobe around here. I had suspected it but Stupid me, it took me that long to make the full connection . All the hate towards him has never made sense. Just "fans' and pundits like Souness, hiding their true feelings(islamophobia).
I have criticised Pogba several times and honestly I didn't even know that he is a muslim until now. Also have never got the impression of the sort you are suggesting around here atleast
 

Adam-Utd

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He says we look better without him, but we won the match against PSG with him giving the assist, and he gave us much more possession against Chelsea. hmmm.

The press as usual just go with whatever is stylish at this time.
 

Foxbatt

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This is utter madness. The criticism of Pogba has nothing to do with his religion. Also The Sun was on an anti islam rant on the Pogba issue.
I as a fan don't think much of him as a team player. Pogba is not the only Muslim football player in PL. There are many with Arabic names.
 

Artorias

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Hate to say it, but i'm with Carrager in this one. Four years here and we still trying to find his "best" position.
 

Idxomer

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Wonder why there wasn't a problem finding his best position with Juve and France.
 

Bobski

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Wonder why there wasn't a problem finding his best position with Juve and France.
There was, or do people just ignore the exact same debate that was taking place around his role in the French team in the lead up to the last WC?

What changed to make that debate recede? Pogba changed, to fit the needs of the team.
 

Hugh Jass

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Wonder why there wasn't a problem finding his best position with Juve and France.
With Juve they dominate the league so it easier for Pogba to look good. Same to a lesser extent with France in that he is surrounded by quality.

I still think he is a decent player, but Juve robbed us for 90 million. He is a 40 million pound player.
 

3KDré

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I saw this earlier. I don't understand the complaint that we still don't know what his best position is. We all know it is the left hand side of a midfield 3. His best perfomances for us over 10+ games have all been there (Mou's 1st season, Ole's initial run).
 

Bobski

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I saw this earlier. I don't understand the complaint that we still don't know what his best position is. We all know it is the left hand side of a midfield 3. His best perfomances for us over 10+ games have all been there (Mou's 1st season, Ole's initial run).
It is not as simple as what his best position is.

The job is not just about getting the best out of Pogba. Finding the best system for the team is the challenge and what suits Pogba may not suit the players around him.
 

scudetto_boy

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I wish he would just shut up & turn up instead of his relentless tantrums; it's all incredibly predictable these days & has been for over a year.
 

Borys

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It's been 3 games. Two of which we won after he was subbed on. Quite a ridiculous claim.

Regardless, 3 games is far too small a sample size.
3 games where we conceded 2 goals (own goals), you can't ignore that.

As Harris said, when Pogba plays you can always expect him to do something good. But he lacks the intesivity and dynamism (for whatever reasons) to play in midfield for us. Which is a good summary of him, but nothing new.
I was more surprised with how he said that midfield with Bruno and van de Beek, with someone with legs behind them, will be our best midfield.

EDIT:
Carragher vs Neville is a typical Redcafe discussion about Pogba. Jamie is on the side of "he's a great talent but not that great footballer", while Gary goes with "he's had only 6 months to play with Bruno".
 

Idxomer

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It is not as simple as what his best position is.

The job is not just about getting the best out of Pogba. Finding the best system for the team is the challenge and what suits Pogba may not suit the players around him.
But neither France nor Juve built their system around him, and he had different roles in both teams.
 

Focusmate

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Some mad stuff on here altogether. Criticism of Pogba is islamaphobia?
nothing to do with his half hearted performances and long running desire to leave the club?
To be honest I doubt that many people even know he is muslim - funnily enough it doesnt really figure when youre watching a footballer play football
 

tjb

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Some mad stuff on here altogether. Criticism of Pogba is islamaphobia?
nothing to do with his half hearted performances and long running desire to leave the club?
To be honest I doubt that many people even know he is muslim - funnily enough it doesnt really figure when youre watching a footballer play football
Exactly...what this does expose is how terrible newspapers and the media can be. This proves that lies can be told to suit their agenda.
 

brzez

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Unfortunately there is a narrative that Paul was an amazing 10 out of 10 player when he played in Italy. It is not true. He played great one game, and in the next one he was shit. And that’s pretty him nowadays as well.

But his glaring weakness is his positional play. I don’t think he understands football in terms of knowing and sniffing areas that he needs to pick up on to either hinder goals conceded, but also him scoring goals. His runs, where he went on that goal run, I can’t fathom why he doesn’t do that anymore. I don’t understand why he’s not shooting anymore. Its really disappointing because I truly believe that Paul Pogbas abilities are probably the best in the league. I don’t think anyone can beat him 1v1, but when he’s out there on the pitch. I don’t know what the problem is.
 

Irwin99

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Utterly stupid to bring race or Islam into this as to why some people don't rate his contribution. The fact is he was signed for a world record fee and has only once put in a sustained period of good form which is Ole's first ten or eleven games which got him a rather charitable inclusion in the PFA team of the year that season. He now looks to be in the role of super sub and I can't help but feel a bit underwhelmed, not by his impact from the bench which has been ok, but the fact that he's there in the first place.

It's been almost 5 years of mostly nothingness or negativity and a waste of our time (and a waste of his in some ways). Unless he goes onto have a fantastic season this year I'd say hes been a very disappointing signing. Not a mega flop but just nothing like a world class player and nothing like the player we all wanted.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Wonder why there wasn't a problem finding his best position with Juve and France.
I agree. He played under different coaches in Juventus and was phenomenal when he played a key part in them winning 4 consecutive titles.

He was one of the best players in the French team when they won the world cup, and put up one world class performance after another.

Having said that, formations and positions do play a role. He doesn't play the same role at United that he played with Juventus. He played in a deep 2 in a 4-2-3-2 under Mourinho, and plays deep under Solskjaer.

Under Conte, Allegri, and Deschamps, he had some freedom. Pirlo was a deep lying midfielder and Vidal was their destroyer, which freed up Pogba to do what he does best. Express himself on the pitch. A player that talented shouldn't be shackled.

We don't really have the players that Juventus had, in terms of balance. Our other midfielders don't provide what Pirlo and Vidal did.

As good as Fred is, he isn't what Vidal was for Juventus or what Kante is for France. Pogba is asked to carry more defensive duties here than he was at Juve (under multiple managers) and at France.
 

R'hllor

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Thats whats all about being United fan, support a manager and players, team on a whole but the moment Pogba and some other players in the past enter the room, masks fall off and show they are just full of shit. Similar it was with Martial under JM, things being said in here during that summer, content.
 

MadDogg

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Hate to say it, but i'm with Carrager in this one. Four years here and we still trying to find his "best" position.
What have we actually done differently in those four years though?

We have pretty much always just played 4231 with him as one of the two deeper midfielders. The few times we've played 433 with him as the most attacking of the midfielders he (and generally the team as a whole) has looked quite a bit better, but then for some reason we go back to 4231 again. Things have changed now that we've got Bruno, but before that it simply didn't make sense.

It is not as simple as what his best position is.

The job is not just about getting the best out of Pogba. Finding the best system for the team is the challenge and what suits Pogba may not suit the players around him.
The strange thing is that until we bought Bruno, that would have been the best system for the team. We had the right midfielders to play with three and make a fairly good combination (Matic-Herrera-Pogba) and we didn't have any good #10's. It never made any sense why we didn't use that formation consistently. That combination had a fantastic record whenever we did play it. We did lose and drew the first two league games we used it for, but then played it another 13 times for 12 wins and a draw.
 
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MadDogg

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It would be naive to pretend that this is a HATE FREE zone in here....got to be a reason why we get reminded everyday about the fight against Racism.
So yeah, Keep pretending that it is just about his performances.
I do believe there is an element of racism in some of the criticism, but I don't think there's anything about his religion. Obviously there are random idiots here and there that hate everything to do with islam, but I don't see that having any influence on the criticism Pogba gets.

The racism I touch on above isn't so much a direct 'dislike him because he's black' (once again there are random idiots but it doesn't influence the larger picture), but more that he's 'flashy'. Middle aged and older white guys (the group that is almost exclusively in charge of the media narrative) finding it hard to understand someone getting flashy haircuts, dancing and joking around on social media (things which tend to be more prevalent in black culture than white), so when the team isn't playing well it makes him a target because they think he doesn't really care. Combine that with the price tag and the (unfair) expectation that he could single-handedly turn the team around, and it's a perfect situation for them to degrade him.
 
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MikeKing

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The agenda against Paul reveals something sinister still lurking in certain portion of the western society and it needs to be exposed, then eradicated.
Damn. Who knew Paul was such a martyr. It really is pretty crazy what your saying if you really believe that. There is a boat load of evidence pointing to why Pogba gets critiqued and disliked. The biggest is that he is a footballer. The fact you pretty much managed to ignore that is, well yeah. We're on a football forum after all, where opinions on a footballer is discussed. I very much doubt if some skilled investigative journalist starts hanging around shitty tabloid football papers and do some digging he'll find enough evidence on some dark hidden truths of western society to finally be able to exonerate the centrepiece of this conspiracy from it all, so Pogba will once again be written about in glory. If you eradicate the problems then the real important and relevant issues will get solved and a football player can once again stand in the wall, throw his hands in the air and give away a penalty a day without fear because religion is no longer an issue.
 

Karel Podolsky

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Many "closeted" Islamophobe around here. I had suspected it but Stupid me, it took me that long to make the full connection . All the hate towards him has never made sense. Just "fans' and pundits like Souness, hiding their true feelings(islamophobia).
While you are at it, You may add, Dzeko, Yaya, Nasri, Gundogan, Mahrez, who are/were also criticised a lot by City fans..

And Özil ......

And it wouldn't be long until Salah performance dropping...
 
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Black Adder

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Him being criticised has nothing to do with religion or race, people banging that shit should've been banned for trolling.

Him jogging around the pitch, taking 5 touches when 2 would do the trick, trying hollywood passes instead of simpler ones, and overall just dissapearing in matches for prolonged time, being inconsistent while not being young player anymore is what people make criticise him.

Ha has all ability in the world and he uses it so rarely, no wonder it makes fans angry with him, and rightfully so.
 

Posh Red

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Damn. Who knew Paul was such a martyr. It really is pretty crazy what your saying if you really believe that. There is a boat load of evidence pointing to why Pogba gets critiqued and disliked. The biggest is that he is a footballer. The fact you pretty much managed to ignore that is, well yeah. We're on a football forum after all, where opinions on a footballer is discussed. I very much doubt if some skilled investigative journalist starts hanging around shitty tabloid football papers and do some digging he'll find enough evidence on some dark hidden truths of western society to finally be able to exonerate the centrepiece of this conspiracy from it all, so Pogba will once again be written about in glory. If you eradicate the problems then the real important and relevant issues will get solved and a football player can once again stand in the wall, throw his hands in the air and give away a penalty a day without fear because religion is no longer an issue.
I’m not agreeing with everything that’s been said, but there is definitely a nasty tone when people criticise certain players and Pogba is one of them. It is absolutely okay to criticise players, but there is something about the way many people criticise certain players that makes me feel uncomfortable. Almost like a personal hatred, which doesn’t make sense given most of us have never met these guys.

I’m sorry I can’t give you specific examples or offer a better explanation, but it is certainly something I have noticed on this forum.

Also, just to add, why do people get so offended at the mere concept that there may be some racial undertones to some of the criticisms? It’s not like they are being called out individually, and to say with such certainty that there is nothing like this going on is daft.
 

kouroux

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I’m not agreeing with everything that’s been said, but there is definitely a nasty tone when people criticise certain players and Pogba is one of them. It is absolutely okay to criticise players, but there is something about the way many people criticise certain players that makes me feel uncomfortable. Almost like a personal hatred, which doesn’t make sense given most of us have never met these guys.

I’m sorry I can’t give you specific examples or offer a better explanation, but it is certainly something I have noticed on this forum.

Also, just to add, why do people get so offended at the mere concept that there may be some racial undertones to some of the criticisms? It’s not like they are being called out individually, and to say with such certainty that there is nothing like this going on is daft.
Very well said.
 

yumtum

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I can only imagine the outcry for Daniel James if he was black and Muslim - the vitriol aimed towards him match days (and pretty much any other day) would cause chaos.

People don't like Pogba because he was brought in as our saviour, check out the thread of his when he was signed, full of these racists wondering why we signed our first black player...

I still remember that "I'm back" reveal video and I'd wager a fair few who now criticise him felt the same feeling as I did, aka, he's going to dominate here, but it's just not materialised, even worse is that it didn't take long for his brother to start pining for Madrid, then Mino, and then Pogba himself - even Ronaldo had people here hate him for his flirtation with Madrid, and he'll go down as one of the best players ever (maybe the hate was because he was tanned?).

Are there people who dislike him because he's black? That I have no doubt, but to make it taboo for people to be critical of a black player (or Muslim - i actually had no idea the faith of any player before this, maybe some of the brazilians who love God etc) is also wrong - I've personally not seen any racist remarks towards Pogba on this forum, just those upset by his failure to live up to expectations.