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2020-21 Performances


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Idxomer

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what period was that analysis over? We had a great run post lockdown, a great run since December. McFred wasn’t really a thing until Pogba got injured last year and we were shocking when Pogba was injured until we signed Bruno, so like six weeks before lockdown.

Sounds iffy to me, like the stats suited a particular narrative. Would be happy to be proved wrong over a reasonable timescale though.
I'm not sure if he means this one but I remember a very dubious table made after about 5 league games and 2 league cup ties.

The conclusion was we have no problems with creativity when we start both Fred and McTominay and putting Pogba in place of one of them would usually cause a negative effect.
 

gza the genius

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I think he's basically been told "earn yourself a transfer out" - he knows we won't get an acceptable offer for him if he kept playing the way he had been and clearly Ole wasn't afraid of benching him. That coupled with our good form in general has been sort've the perfect storm for his form right now. I like Pogba a lot but I do think it's fairly obvious he's only playing like this right now because he's got extra motivation and a move riding on it, though I'm sure the prospect of finally winning something with us is helping too. I think if he somehow does stay longer than this summer we'll see the same unmotivated Pogba sooner than later.

I think the best move for all parties is Pogba continues this run of form until the end of the season and fetches a good fee that we can then invest in players who have a little more motivation to be here.

This may sound damning or a criticism of Pogba but honestly he's spent a large portion of the prime of his career with us floundering around with no real plans for success in sight. I don't blame him at all for wanting out even if things do finally look to be getting better.
 

mancan92

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So you maintain that there has been absolutely zero difference in the way he played yesterday, in comparison to how he's played his whole career at Utd, from a defensive standpoint? Be it how he handles the ball in our half, what he does when he clears the ball, the effort he puts in when tracking back? Have you just wiped your mind of all of the instances of him jogging back with opposition players flying past him, or of him rolling the ball around with his foot only to be dispossessed in a dangerous area? We should probably just agree to disagree, if you think there are essentially no negatives to his game, throughout his time at Utd.
There are clearly times in pogbas career here when he has been up to scatch. 18 months recently. Other than that he has shown similar level of performances only difference is he had no one offering much creatively so he would over do it and make mistakes. But the facts are clearly there for you to see and you can even go back and watch any match from 2016/17 and 2017/18 you will see the same paul pogba as now. 2018/19 the team first half was a mess and in the second half he played number 10 so obviously his defensive numbers dropped. Then hes been injured, out of fitness and sick with covid for the last couple years.

In fact all the things you mentioned he has done in the last 2 months. Yesterday he lost the ball 2 times in dangerous areas. That why I say do yourself a favour a watch back a match from before the last 18 months you'll be surprised.
 

lex talionis

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If Pogba is committed to United, let’s commit to him. But not now. Whether it’s Woody or whoever, the tone for them to cross this bridge is in June.
 

Conor

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There are clearly times in pogbas career here when he has been up to scatch. 18 months recently. Other than that he has shown similar level of performances only difference is he had no one offering much creatively so he would over do it and make mistakes. But the facts are clearly there for you to see and you can even go back and watch any match from 2016/17 and 2017/18 you will see the same paul pogba as now. 2018/19 the team first half was a mess and in the second half he played number 10 so obviously his defensive numbers dropped. Then hes been injured, out of fitness and sick with covid for the last couple years.

In fact all the things you mentioned he has done in the last 2 months. Yesterday he lost the ball 2 times in dangerous areas. That why I say do yourself a favour a watch back a match from before the last 18 months you'll be surprised.
As I mentioned in my initial comment about yesterday's game(and my previous posts in the thread), he definitely still does these things, and will most likely never stop. However, I think there has been a marked difference in the regularity of them(for the most part) in some recent games, and yesterday in particular, he made one mistake very early on, and then had the bad tackle very late, which can partly be excused for how wrecked he must have been. Aside from that, he was very basic in how he dealt with things when in areas of danger, and his clearances etc. were excellent.
 

mancan92

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As I mentioned in my initial comment about yesterday's game(and my previous posts in the thread), he definitely still does these things, and will most likely never stop. However, I think there has been a marked difference in the regularity of them(for the most part) in some recent games, and yesterday in particular, he made one mistake very early on, and then had the bad tackle very late, which can partly be excused for how wrecked he must have been. Aside from that, he was very basic in how he dealt with things when in areas of danger, and his clearances etc. were excellent.
As I said do yourself the service of rewatching matches from his first 3 seasons the stats prove it the eye will also showcase it. Only difference now is he can focus on just one area of the game rather than having to do everything.
 

lost7

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Hoping he doesn't play tomorrow, needs a rest before Arsenal. Also would love to see VdB playing tomorrow in his position, as he might be the one to inherit his place next year
 

kafta

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Excellent yesterday. If we continue to challenge for trophies this season, we need him at his best. I hope he stays, but if he doesnt, we can now get a good fee for him. Replacing him is a whole other issue though.

credit to ole for managing the situation expertly. Joy to watch when he plays like this.
 

Polar

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I think he's basically been told "earn yourself a transfer out" - he knows we won't get an acceptable offer for him if he kept playing the way he had been and clearly Ole wasn't afraid of benching him. That coupled with our good form in general has been sort've the perfect storm for his form right now. I like Pogba a lot but I do think it's fairly obvious he's only playing like this right now because he's got extra motivation and a move riding on it, though I'm sure the prospect of finally winning something with us is helping too. I think if he somehow does stay longer than this summer we'll see the same unmotivated Pogba sooner than later.

I think the best move for all parties is Pogba continues this run of form until the end of the season and fetches a good fee that we can then invest in players who have a little more motivation to be here.

This may sound damning or a criticism of Pogba but honestly he's spent a large portion of the prime of his career with us floundering around with no real plans for success in sight. I don't blame him at all for wanting out even if things do finally look to be getting better.
Very good reflections. Totally agree. Pogba out is a very likely scenario. Even though I want him to stay (when he plays like now), I’m very excited to see what the plan is. It’s an good opportunity to fine calibre or tune our system.
 

berbatrick

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Still think he's more influential as an orthodox 8 than deep two. Imagine if he was playing in VDB's place and we had Matic on.

I thought he played well today. Still got caught a few times in his own half but overall a composed performance.
Yes.
In a Pep system, one of the two forward midfielders in a 4-3-3 (xavi/iniesta ahead of busquets or silva/kdb ahead of fernandinho), and within that, he can be the more attacking one or the more controlling one. That was his role in 18/19 (as the more attacking one). Compared to his position now, it would mean Bruno moves a little back, Pogba moves a little forward, and there's a more coherent midfield, but the problem is nobody natural at the lone defensive midfielder position behind them. A younger version of Matic maybe.
 

Rozay

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I think he's basically been told "earn yourself a transfer out" - he knows we won't get an acceptable offer for him if he kept playing the way he had been and clearly Ole wasn't afraid of benching him. That coupled with our good form in general has been sort've the perfect storm for his form right now. I like Pogba a lot but I do think it's fairly obvious he's only playing like this right now because he's got extra motivation and a move riding on it, though I'm sure the prospect of finally winning something with us is helping too. I think if he somehow does stay longer than this summer we'll see the same unmotivated Pogba sooner than later.

I think the best move for all parties is Pogba continues this run of form until the end of the season and fetches a good fee that we can then invest in players who have a little more motivation to be here.

This may sound damning or a criticism of Pogba but honestly he's spent a large portion of the prime of his career with us floundering around with no real plans for success in sight. I don't blame him at all for wanting out even if things do finally look to be getting better.
Out of curiosity, what will your views be (or anyone else who is of the opinion that he has decided to play well because he wants a transfer) if/when he next has a couple of poor games? Would you take that to mean that he no longer wishes to leave and wants to stay at United? Because given how often this has been repeated of late - I’m not sure how any subsequent poor performance fits in with your narrative of it being ‘fairly obvious’ that he has ‘chosen’ to play well because he wants to leave. Perhaps you will then have checkmated yourselves, and simply see it as a part of football that players play well sometimes, and poorly sometimes.
 

Offsideagain

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I would never claim to be an expert when it comes to football players, but I can’t see how some pundits gave Pogba the MOTM last night. He lost the ball a lot, yes he made some good passes and tackles but is that what he’s paid to do to paraphrase Roy Keane? Nothing against Pogba who I think is controlled by his agent who is a greedy git, but I can’t see him as a stand out. He is putting in a decent shift this last month or so and if we win the PL I reckon he would stay. Just so much crap surrounding him.
 

Jeppers7

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I would never claim to be an expert when it comes to football players, but I can’t see how some pundits gave Pogba the MOTM last night. He lost the ball a lot, yes he made some good passes and tackles but is that what he’s paid to do to paraphrase Roy Keane? Nothing against Pogba who I think is controlled by his agent who is a greedy git, but I can’t see him as a stand out. He is putting in a decent shift this last month or so and if we win the PL I reckon he would stay. Just so much crap surrounding him.
:lol:
 

gza the genius

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Out of curiosity, what will your views be (or anyone else who is of the opinion that he has decided to play well because he wants a transfer) if/when he next has a couple of poor games? Would you take that to mean that he no longer wishes to leave and wants to stay at United? Because given how often this has been repeated of late - I’m not sure how any subsequent poor performance fits in with your narrative of it being ‘fairly obvious’ that he has ‘chosen’ to play well because he wants to leave. Perhaps you will then have checkmated yourselves, and simply see it as a part of football that players play well sometimes, and poorly sometimes.
I mentioned in my post that I thought it was a perfect storm of events that lead us here. I'm not really of the belief that's he's been world class in every game since Raiola made his statement either so I'm already accounting for dips in form in his performances. The difference for me is that he seems motivated again. I think that has to do with the team playing better as a whole, the fact that we're now top of the league, and him knowing he's trying to force a move and needs a substantial offer in order to get that move away. If he has a bad game this week I don't think it will mean anything other than he had a bad game this week.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that his form improved so dramatically immediately after Raiola's statement and I don't think a couple of months of United being in good form has changed his mind about leaving either. Raiola said what he said at the direction of Pogba, or at the very least with Pogba knowing it was coming, I just don't think we should try to force him to stay if he doesn't want to be here. It won't work out well for either party.
 

Rozay

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I mentioned in my post that I thought it was a perfect storm of events that lead us here. I'm not really of the belief that's he's been world class in every game since Raiola made his statement either so I'm already accounting for dips in form in his performances. The difference for me is that he seems motivated again. I think that has to do with the team playing better as a whole, the fact that we're now top of the league, and him knowing he's trying to force a move and needs a substantial offer in order to get that move away. If he has a bad game this week I don't think it will mean anything other than he had a bad game this week.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that his form improved so dramatically immediately after Raiola's statement and I don't think a couple of months of United being in good form has changed his mind about leaving either. Raiola said what he said at the direction of Pogba, or at the very least with Pogba knowing it was coming, I just don't think we should try to force him to stay if he doesn't want to be here. It won't work out well for either party.
I agree with much of that tbh. All except the playing well for a transfer part. Firstly, I think many of his detractors are deceiving themselves if they are of the view that he would struggle to gain interest from another top club anyway - and secondly - he’s played well many times over the years that he’s been here.

Other than that, I do feel that, naturally, there is an extra motivation in fighting for 1st place and fighting to maybe make the CL for a top player, and I agree that Pogba is likely incentivised further by the possibility of winning the league. But I don’t like the implication of ‘because we’re now top of the league’ either, unless that’s just semantics. Pogba has twice scored the goals that has put us top of the league himself - it isn’t like he has not played his part this season in us being where we are, he absolutely has been a key reason as to why we are top. But players will feel it for sure, it will give them a lift when chasing a title.

Also, we were nowhere near top of the league when he started this run of good form.

And I agree with you also that he hasn’t necessarily been world class in every game since Raiola either. In fact, I’m still of the personal opinion that I prefer him 10 yards further forward anyway, and I don’t think this is the best he’s ever played for us. What I do think though, as I’ve said on this topic for years - that the narrative is always different when your team is winning. You just become more appreciated when you contribute to success. Take the World Cup, where Pogba was lauded and everyone loved how he ‘kept it simple’ or whatever. A large part of the opinion was because France won. If they went out in the quarters - I think he would have been seen to have not done enough. Why didn’t he score goals and win the games for them would be the question. There is room to appreciate the good in his game in a winning team. Pogba has always had plenty of positives in his game for those who preferred to look at them. If City finished 6th, it will be almost like magic how people would start noticing the flaws in KDBs game. In a team, typically the players all need each other to help them look good. Right now, I think that is happening with us. Not necessarily Pogba being amazing, but him being part of a winning team. If we had lost some of these tight games over the last two months, his performances wouldn’t look so good.

As for you not thinking it a coincidence that his form improved so much after Raiola’s comments - neither do I, but I think the reason for that is different to what most seem to think. I remember the narrative surrounding him at the time - all the ‘he’s a disgrace’ and the rest of it, people questioning his attitude and the like, to the point where he felt compelled to issue a statement. To me, the most obvious reason that nobody seems to mention (maybe as it is on the positive side) is that he was extra determined around that time to show people that he is someone who actually cares about United, and not some unprofessional waster who is a disgrace to the club. For me, the determination and specifically, the fight he has shown on the pitch, is largely down to him being called into question as a man as much as as a footballer. I’ve always been someone who has never subscribed to the view that Pogba is some sort of Bond villain who plays for United under duress and really hates us. I don’t think that to be the case, and I think the loud chorus of that sort of view lit a fire under him, so I think it was closer to being the comments from the likes of Gary Neville and Carragher that have driven him more than those from Mino Raiola.
 

Polar

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Out of curiosity, what will your views be (or anyone else who is of the opinion that he has decided to play well because he wants a transfer) if/when he next has a couple of poor games? Would you take that to mean that he no longer wishes to leave and wants to stay at United? Because given how often this has been repeated of late - I’m not sure how any subsequent poor performance fits in with your narrative of it being ‘fairly obvious’ that he has ‘chosen’ to play well because he wants to leave. Perhaps you will then have checkmated yourselves, and simply see it as a part of football that players play well sometimes, and poorly sometimes.
Off course the answer on Pogba’s progress is more compound. “Earn your way out and leave with a smile” is one motivation, I think. Another motivation is that we are in the title race and the team plays better (his standard :D). The second, perhaps most important, explanation is that COVID recovery took more time; COVID set him back more than we thought. He is now finally fit enough and in form.
 

giggs-beckham

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Rather than enjoying his form many people are asking hmm why is he playing well? It must be for a transfer, it must be to prove Neville and Souness wrong for example. Why not that he's a top class player who's reaching his prime and is maturing in the process. Also that he's now fully recovered from covid.
 

Rozay

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Rather than enjoying his form many people are asking hmm why is he playing well? It must be for a transfer, it must be to prove Neville and Souness wrong for example. Why not that he's a top class player who's reaching his prime and is maturing in the process. Also that he's now fully recovered from covid.
This is of course the most likely, and obvious rationale.

Also, in the history of football, players don’t typically improve their form to try and force their way out of a club, usually the opposite!
 

Raven

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He sounds kinda alright here .
I think Ole and Pogba probably have an agreement to not talk about any move until the end of the season. I think he's probably said he'll allow him move if he still wants to but to think of nothing but football until then. He looks fit and focused now and we're reaping the benefits, let's hope he can maintain(/improve on) this till the end of the season.
 

CG1010

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Rather than enjoying his form many people are asking hmm why is he playing well? It must be for a transfer, it must be to prove Neville and Souness wrong for example. Why not that he's a top class player who's reaching his prime and is maturing in the process. Also that he's now fully recovered from covid.
I personally feel that motivation is also a big factor. Sometimes the team's challenges like struggling for top 4 have been far too low to motivate him but the current title race also gives him motivation. In that sense, this is a downside about him that he downs tools when the team is down and vice-versa.
 

Rozay

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It’s just a regular footballer interview. I don’t see any need to hypothesise and try to establish theories or motivations here or there. When it is all said and done, he is just a football player, and he answered some questions about some football matches.
 

90 + 5min

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I think Ole and Pogba probably have an agreement to not talk about any move until the end of the season. I think he's probably said he'll allow him move if he still wants to but to think of nothing but football until then. He looks fit and focused now and we're reaping the benefits, let's hope he can maintain(/improve on) this till the end of the season.
You are correct. Little bit like Ferguson and Ronaldo. Give your best for the shirt and we will let you go.

I have been very critical of him in the past and have said he should be sold wich would be best for everybody but playing like he have last two months he should get lot of praise. Let us hope that this can continue.
 

Stacks

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I mentioned in my post that I thought it was a perfect storm of events that lead us here. I'm not really of the belief that's he's been world class in every game since Raiola made his statement either so I'm already accounting for dips in form in his performances. The difference for me is that he seems motivated again. I think that has to do with the team playing better as a whole, the fact that we're now top of the league, and him knowing he's trying to force a move and needs a substantial offer in order to get that move away. If he has a bad game this week I don't think it will mean anything other than he had a bad game this week.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that his form improved so dramatically immediately after Raiola's statement and I don't think a couple of months of United being in good form has changed his mind about leaving either. Raiola said what he said at the direction of Pogba, or at the very least with Pogba knowing it was coming, I just don't think we should try to force him to stay if he doesn't want to be here. It won't work out well for either party.
EDIT: I agree whole except the playing for transfer part. I think he genuinely wants to win something with United before he leaves. I predicted (a bit tongue in cheek) a while back that he may help us win the league and I wouldn't mind if he left after that. Would be a great memory and the overall opinion of his time here would change
 
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Raven

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You are correct. Little bit like Ferguson and Ronaldo. Give your best for the shirt and we will let you go.

I have been very critical of him in the past and have said he should be sold wich would be best for everybody but playing like he have last two months he should get lot of praise. Let us hope that this can continue.
I'm not entirely sure he'll want out if we can sustain this league challenge.
 

Stacks

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Rather than enjoying his form many people are asking hmm why is he playing well? It must be for a transfer, it must be to prove Neville and Souness wrong for example. Why not that he's a top class player who's reaching his prime and is maturing in the process. Also that he's now fully recovered from covid.
Because he has played better than this before. Why would this be his prime level?
 

Raven

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He will man. He has been here for yonkers and has his heart set on playing in different countries/clubs. Very few people want to retire at United.
I'm not so sure. I think above all, he wants to win things, if here looks the most likely place to do so, I think he stays.
 

Bebestation

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We dont know how good or average Ole is.

Maybe Pogba sees that Ole is potentially a very good manager and it's best to stay managed by him for success. He might think he is average and also that being in the United limelight is too much of a waste of time and move clubs.
 

Danville vanheerden

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You are correct. Little bit like Ferguson and Ronaldo. Give your best for the shirt and we will let you go.

I have been very critical of him in the past and have said he should be sold wich would be best for everybody but playing like he have last two months he should get lot of praise. Let us hope that this can continue.
Do you think there is any chance of him staying especially of we the Premier League?
 

90 + 5min

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Do you think there is any chance of him staying especially of we the Premier League?
There is always chance. Big contract, change of mind, trophy and so on.

I can't understand how his form and his attitude changed dramaticly after Raiola made that statement. It is so wierd. Maybe he is just in form and Covid-19 had more impact on him then he want to admit.
 

Stacks

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I'm not so sure. I think above all, he wants to win things, if here looks the most likely place to do so, I think he stays.
There is always chance. Big contract, change of mind, trophy and so on.

I can't understand how his form and his attitude changed dramaticly after Raiola made that statement. It is so wierd. Maybe he is just in form and Covid-19 had more impact on him then he want to admit.
We got dumped out of the CL in the groups and I am sure he believes he deserves to play for a CL contender. He is entering his prime and we seem more of a Europa Semi team as opposed to CL challenger level.
 
Man Utd 1:2 Sheffield Utd

saivet

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Thought he was mediocre tonight then I thought about the rest of the team and he was arguably our best player on the pitch which is scary.
 

NinjaFletch

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Thought he was mediocre tonight then I thought about the rest of the team and he was arguably our best player on the pitch which is scary.
I think mediocre is kind, I thought he was absolutely fecking shite.

And yet possibly still our best player, too.
 

RedIan

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Been on fire of late, tonight a damp squib. Just didnt happen for him but he was far from the worst
 
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