Bump for this one.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 27
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 9
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I thought he was class today. If he keeps up this level, then good things should continue to happen on the attack-side of things.
If only players played 50% of his level today, we easily win that.
Despite his brilliant performances we will have to put him back into the midfield two sooner or later.
We cannot go on playing Midfield pairs that cannot pass the fecking ball.
We cannot go on playing Midfield pairs that cannot pass the fecking ball.
Pogba imperious again today. Head and shoulders above the others. Shame he couldn’t hit the net with at least one of his chances.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Impressive as 95% of that time is spent in a Midfield 2.
Over criticised and under appreciated in my book.
Not saying he has been perfect or anything just always thought he was one of the least of our worries so the focusing on him to blame always baffled me.
Also no other player in a Midfield 2 is ever EXPECTED to get goals and assists really. That's seemingly reserved for Pogba.
Last edited:
I never look at the criticism as a bad thing, if anything it's more of a sign of respect for the talent everybody knows he has. The problem is things often go over the line with him, in the media and from fans where it's not just about his performances, but his professionalism, his intelligence, his agent, his family, his attitude, things that are portraying him as someone completely different than who he is, a nice, professional, locker room guy that's got more class than most. People can say whatever they want about his faults as a football player, but when it gets to the person that's where I always have a problem with how he's portrayed in some media.
But that all comes from competent midfielders feeding them the ball, and we don’t have any, so getting the ball forward succinctly, or even slowly between the lines is a real struggle - a struggle that shouldn't be in any side genuinely expecting to challenge for the league.
I don't know how you circumvent or address the issue with McTominay, Fred and/or Matic as your men tasked with the job of controlling your midfield and metronomically feeding those ahead of them with next to no fuss.
To think some, albeit a minority, suggested we should leave him to train with the reserves if he doesn't sign a new contract 
Ole needs to find a way to make Bruno-Pogba work in midfield with a holding midfielder behind them. I still think that's the team's biggest ceiling, but with Pogba's really good form on the free role from the left, it doesn't look likely we'll experiment.
We need to get them on the ball more either way. I agree with @JPRouve
The issue of Pogba's defensive work in a deeper role would be alleviated if we committed to pressing more.
We need to get them on the ball more either way. I agree with @JPRouve
The issue of Pogba's defensive work in a deeper role would be alleviated if we committed to pressing more.
Only way is to probably do a Pep and have a fullback sit in midfield.
Wouldn't be the worst idea, mind you.
I don't think it would be that hard personally.
When you compare David silva & De Bryune to Pogba and Bruno Fernandes- our 2 are much more the CM type with the ability and experience to play there if they were protected with our own version of Fernandinho.
We just need that CDM to let them do their work and be creative together - the way they interchange is great to watch. However, Pogba right now is a left winger taking up one of our extra Forwards spot - whilst playing two defensive type midfielders like Matic and Fred is taking up a spot unnecessarily of a creative CM like Pogba.
Not is he expected to get goals and assists in a midfield 2, but he's criticised if he isn't a workhorse that runs all over the pitch & puts in top class defensive abilities.
Meanwhile our other midfielders can barely pass the ball, run with the ball, avoid a press, or provide any worthwhile contribution to our attacking play.
You may be right, but I think the two of them are just as hopeless defensively.
Again, I have to think back that Pep used Delph and Zinchenko as midfield/fullback hybrids to shore it up even more.
But, this would also beg the question if Ole can adapt his style to a more movement focused one, which also relies on just about every player having supreme technical ability, which, we don't have in all departments.
Pep is a master of it, and his spending says it all about how he's acquired those players.
Whether we can do the same is debatable.
I feel like first, we need to address the Fred/Mctominay issue then determine Wan-Bissaka's longevity as a first team player.
Once we're secure and have the structure, can we then think about putting them both in midfield.
Right now, I have no doubt we'd be ripped to shreds doing it.
Are we even in contract talks with him?
Yesterday was a better performance than last week for me. Unplayable, and I still see him as our best player. Just watching a video of his performance from yesterday alone, you can see that even at their best, nobody else is simply capable of doing most of those things.
I think he will stay
People really thought our best team is without him in it….
Sign a fecking DM please. Just do it. I’m tired of repeating myself but it’s been the most important position since Matic began to decline years ago. Being able to advance the ball under pressure from deep has been our biggest issue as a side (not breaking teams down as many think), and it’s the single biggest reason we struggle to impose our will in possession on top pressing teams.
Sign a fecking DM please. Just do it. I’m tired of repeating myself but it’s been the most important position since Matic began to decline years ago. Being able to advance the ball under pressure from deep has been our biggest issue as a side (not breaking teams down as many think), and it’s the single biggest reason we struggle to impose our will in possession on top pressing teams.
For the rest of this season, I agree. But beyond that, it's looking increasingly unlikely.
It completely depends which position he's playing. Pogba in your own half and Pogba in the oppositions half are two different players.
In our own half, in a midfield two, he's a problem for us. In the opposition half he's a problem for them.
Let's not suggest the last two games are typical of Pogba's time here. These aren't the type of performances that have been criticised in the past.
15% of those assists have come in the last two games. I'm guessing open play only assists are used to chop out the two Liverpool fullbacks?
Brilliant player. I always say we are lucky to have a player like him and that this fanbase do not appreciate him enough. Little wonder he hasn’t commit yet because he’s indeed wasting his best years here
Be great to see him in a side with Varane and Sancho also. As others have said I’d love an upgrade on McFred but doesn’t look likely.
I think if we have Pogba with only one other player who can progress the ball from deep we are always going to fall into pressing traps, stand off too much and generally left opposition play come through the middle too easily . Our midfield and attack totally fell apart yesterday when he went back there. He’s clearly a much better attacker than defender. Keep using him on the left and as Bruno rotation and we will reap the benefits. Push him back into midfield 2 with partner number 5 I think it would be and watch the argument rage on about why we still aren’t getting the best out of him.
Would be the fact that they only had one great season actually.
It's on both coaching and personnel but the reality is that, with our squad quality, it's more on the former. All the common criticisms of Ole still rings true, 'no patterns of play', 'lack of press', 'lack of counter press', 'lack of build up play' etc.
For all the faults of your Matics, Fred, McT and AWBs, our system and game plan is generally about being fitter, fresher and having the best individual players. Every player benefits from having an organised and recognised method of play when it comes to progressing the ball and when without the ball. Play a 4-3-3, ask Bruno to drop deeper, play a false nine (Martial and Greenwood to stay out wide, on the channels for the outlet ball), have our full backs stretch high and wide to provide space but also in line with the midfield. Flood the middle and press up so that we control the territory of the pitch.
It's true what @JPRouve says, it's unacceptable for our best players to not have more touches and that's on the manager. I don't think our midfield is an issue really in terms of 'quality'; it's not elite but there's enough tangible attritubutes for each of them to shine..providing the platform is there. Right now after 3 years, it's still 'we need to get up to speed' or 'this player shouldn't play against this type of team' etc.
Nah, i genuinely think if we are in the title mix and still in the cl by January he will sign.
He never played as a deep midfielder before he got here, but has always been a bit of a victim of our coaches inability to resist his passing and general ability to control a football from deep. Which you can’t even blame them for, there is an obvious temptation to try and put a strong passer deep, but the reality is - he doesn’t have the other facets of the game for the role. Also, his strengths are simply better utilised going forward.
Another price I think that has been paid for him not playing in advanced areas for years is his ability in front of goal hasn’t developed as it could/should have. Pogba is simply not a natural goalscoring midfielder to me, scoring goals is a mental thing above anything else - and I don’t think he is cold and collected enough in front of goal. That said, if he had played 200 games in the final third, he could maybe have added that to his game. The role he is playing now is and has always been his best. It is where he played for Juventus, and it is where he would like to operate if we played a midfield 3 - advanced left of centre. He has always played his best football here I feel, and it is suited to his strengths and limits exposure to his weaknesses. However, in a 4231 - there still remains the question of, while it suits HIM, is it the best for the team? Either way, he operates in the same zone, but in a midfield 3, he wouldn’t have a 10 inside him, and he’d have 3 forwards ahead of him in a 7,9 and 11. As it stands, we have a 9 and a 7 ahead of him, without a 9 who is a reliable goalscorer at the moment, and unproven options in the 7 role.
To me, we still end up back in the same dilemma of Pogba or Bruno personally. The two of them simply don’t belong in the same midfield 3 on any regular basis, and while they personally work in the midfield 4 we currently have them in, the team doesn’t have the appropriate front 2 to make it worthwhile in the long run for me.
Another price I think that has been paid for him not playing in advanced areas for years is his ability in front of goal hasn’t developed as it could/should have. Pogba is simply not a natural goalscoring midfielder to me, scoring goals is a mental thing above anything else - and I don’t think he is cold and collected enough in front of goal. That said, if he had played 200 games in the final third, he could maybe have added that to his game. The role he is playing now is and has always been his best. It is where he played for Juventus, and it is where he would like to operate if we played a midfield 3 - advanced left of centre. He has always played his best football here I feel, and it is suited to his strengths and limits exposure to his weaknesses. However, in a 4231 - there still remains the question of, while it suits HIM, is it the best for the team? Either way, he operates in the same zone, but in a midfield 3, he wouldn’t have a 10 inside him, and he’d have 3 forwards ahead of him in a 7,9 and 11. As it stands, we have a 9 and a 7 ahead of him, without a 9 who is a reliable goalscorer at the moment, and unproven options in the 7 role.
To me, we still end up back in the same dilemma of Pogba or Bruno personally. The two of them simply don’t belong in the same midfield 3 on any regular basis, and while they personally work in the midfield 4 we currently have them in, the team doesn’t have the appropriate front 2 to make it worthwhile in the long run for me.
Well, it his current role suits him but it would suit him more in a 3 as he'd not be wide as much as he is now, he'd be centrally most of the time. However that is a big no no as a 3 wont include Bruno in the line up and he's a key player in our side. We're okay in attack imo if the Sancho move works out that is, we however wont be taken seriously if we keep trotting out our current midfield.
I hope you’re right, but the lure of playing in Paris and lifting a CL trophy is hard to resist.
Management need to put together that one last piece to give us chance to win a major trophy this season.
I think he would operate in a largely similar area in a 3 personally. He’s hardly been a touchline winger, and has always favoured the left side.
The Pogba/Bruno thing works, but I’m not sure the upside is better than a 20 goal Rashford (not to mention the speed on the counter and in behind) on the left hand side. Which brings Pogba back into the middle 2.
Pogba in the middle 2 has proven to be a bombscare and has led to people calling for him to be sold for a packet of crisps. He simply struggles to defend in a 2 and loses the ball trying to do things he shouldn't with very little behind him.
Bruno wont fit a 4-3-3 and Rashford wont fit 4-2-3-1 so the question is whether we go the Bruno route or the Rashford one. While i believe its an interesting one, chances are no one would consider benching Bruno. It's partly the reason i dont believe Bruno is half as important to our success as some one here believe he is or will be. As you say, a 20 goal wide forward is a huge asset.
2 pieces you mean, we clearly need two midfielders.
People were saying Ndidi in a 2 to unlock Pogba in the middle. On what I’ve seen no thanks. If that’s the best people can come up with then it’s a non starter. Just let him attack and enjoy watching it. Use him to give Bruno 10-15 games less and keep him explosive and the same with Rasford, Greenwood and Sancho. There’s more than enough games to go around to just play him as an attacker and that’s without injuries.
We’re in agreement on the first paragraph. And more than him being a liability in a 2, which I think is ever so slightly overstated anyway, given the sheer number of games he has played there and the fact that the vast majority of those have passed without incident - but there is also the fact that even if he can do it, you have to ask why you would want him to. The role Pogba is playing now is the one that we bought.
With regards to your second paragraph, I’ll avoid getting into a Pogba vs Bruno debate as that topic is too much for a lot of people on here. All I’ll say is that I believe Pogba is our best player, which probably says enough. And I think Rashford is fine in a 4231 on the left. The choice is always between Bruno and Pogba. A team cannot play with two #10s ultimately.
Actually, I retract, I will go into the Bruno or Pogba question. While I think that Pogba is a better footballer than Bruno, Bruno is undoubtedly a better goalscorer. My personal view is that this is less important to me from a #10 as it is to some others, however, in a team where the front 3 are not the most prolific - Bruno is absolutely necessary. Should we find ourselves with a side where Rashford is getting 20 goals, a centre forward is getting 25 goals and a right winger is also putting up huge numbers, then it’s Pogba every day for me. I just feel that he’s a player who is anomalously gifted, something that another team cannot legislate for because he can just produce moments that nobody else can and that even if another team is in shape/position etc - they can be simply removed by sheer skill/strength in a way that Bruno isn’t capable of. Both have great vision, and Bruno gets more goals, which is needed when we have this scenario where we have goal shy forwards.
A lot of good points here, I'll address the bolded.
Firstly, I've stopped viewing Bruno as a midfielder. I used to think he should play in a 3 with Pogba and a DM, but his movement, anticipation, and vision in the final 3rd is too good to ignore; and besides, Ole himself also views him as a forward. He's a goalscoring 10, and that's where he should play.
Now the question becomes, has Pogba played with a goalscoring 10 and been successful? And the answer is yes, in 2 teams: in Juventus with Vidal, and in France with Griezmann. In Juve he played in a diamond with Vidal and 2 defensive mids, while in France he played in a 2 alongside Kante, but with a hardworking midfielder on the wing.
So we have the prototype. Pogba can play with a 10, if he has 2 defensively proficient mids alongside him. And the team can achieve success with it. So IMO it doesn't have to be Bruno or Pogba. We don't have to choose between two of our best players, especially as we've seen how well they dovetail each other in the attack. We can play both and still have a balanced setup; in fact, it's most likely that Pogba would struggle more without Bruno, and vice versa.
That is a very good point, and all true, although it also creates a new question regarding the attacking shape in the sense that we cannot have a traditional front 3. You could argue that Bruno himself makes it something of a front 3, but then you have to ask whether Bruno as a forward is a better trade off than Rashford as a forward, which will be the net loss from the XI if we persist with this line up. Personally, I’m not sure it is. Rashford is our fastest forward by far (discounting Dan James who is basically a defender) and gives us a penetrative threat in behind and on the counter. He also scores 20 goals a season, which is slightly less than Bruno, but he also doesn’t take our penalties. He has raw individual ability and unpredictability that Bruno doesn’t have, which I think you want in the final third where 1v1 situations decide matches.
I can’t see us having a first choice XI this season personally, and we will keep switching personnel and approaches largely because individuals are too good to be dropped more than because we know what kind of team we are trying to be. Rashford, Striker, Sancho with Pogba AND Bruno behind them doesn’t work, certainly not regularly. I personally don’t want Pogba to become a fixture in our front 3 at the expense of losing a more traditional forward player who offers a direct threat.
Against teams with a great press we have seen Pogba make errors so its safe to say it isn't advisable, especially in the big games. You're right, this is infact the Pogba we valued at however many millions it was.
I don't see it quite that way. Bruno and Pogba are very different players. Playing one or the other is a complete change in system. Pogba is a playmaker while Bruno is an attacker. Pogba adds to ball retention and midfield play in a way Bruno doesn't. It should be pretty obvious that he is the better player of the two. He's easily the more accomplished player too. Rashford's best position would on the left in a 4-3-3. in a 4-2-3-1 he becomes too much of a traditional winger and has to contribute more to the build up phase which is far from a strength of his hence you find his thread littered with abuse on occasions.
Comparing Bruno and Pogba as players is stylistically like comparing Cantona to Zidane. In no system are they interchangable imo.
He was brilliant against Southampton. We need to act fast and provide him (and Bruno) with a midfield behind capable of passing the ball more than 5 feet.
Absolutely over criticised. He has been great for us last season and tops so far. Also KDB assist stats are on another level.
- Status