[Borys]

Worked against wolves in the second half. Remember Fred was the worst of the two and he is the so called Midfielder.

He was also terrible versus Southampton too

The midfield of Fred - Pogba was terrible against Wolverhampton. Fred being asked to do all the hard work with Pogba nowhere to be found, especially in the first half. They both improved second half but Wolves ragdolled our midfield areas the whole game, we need to remember that for the future.
Pogba is doing good job of an attacking midfielder vs teams that sit deep, but we've been told "he can play in two man midfield against 80% of opponents" - Wolverhampton game shows otherwise, or in my humble opinion the proportions should be the opposite (can do it against 20%). And he's in a very good attacking form so makes little sense to waste him deep. Both assists yesterday came when he was very high up.

 

[Jeppers7]

It was a lovely bit of play but he's passing to Martial there not Lingard. The dummy from Martial was the assists really.

Would you have him in a midfield two against the better Champs League teams?

I love how Bruno just gets assists….Pogba gets questioned. Penalties don’t count, assists that are five yard passes don’t count. Clever passes into the box don’t count if they get dummied etc etc. For all other players they just count.

 

[Amar__]

Ball retention has literally never been the key factor in determining the best passer. Go back through the decades and look at who fans and pundits talked about as the best passer, invariably they’ll be creative passers who take risks to open up the game.

Not really. When it comes to creativity, people talk about attacking midfielders, number tens, etc., but Pogba isn't a number ten, I'd say he is not comparable to the likes of De Bruyne, Gerrard, etc., I don't think it's fair to him to compare him with them because he doesn't excel in their position. But if you are comparing Pogba with midfielders like Xavi, Scholes, Modric, etc., then you can't say he is better passer just because he makes more spectacular passes or makes more assists because he simply isn't good passer in the build up or orchestrating the game.

 

[Ali Dia]

The midfield of Fred - Pogba was terrible against Wolverhampton. Fred being asked to do all the hard work with Pogba nowhere to be found, especially in the first half. They both improved second half but Wolves ragdolled our midfield areas the whole game, we need to remember that for the future.
Pogba is doing good job of an attacking midfielder vs teams that sit deep, but we've been told "he can play in two man midfield against 80% of opponents" - Wolverhampton game shows otherwise, or in my humble opinion the proportions should be the opposite (can do it against 20%). And he's in a very good attacking form so makes little sense to waste him deep. Both assists yesterday came when he was very high up.

Good post.

He’s definitely been our best player since the season started but from a purely midfield play standpoint If you take away the glorious assists you can see then he’s still not running the midfield. We don’t really ever have total control of the game when it hangs in the balance. In fact our tempo constantly jerks around and we are left very open at the back.

He should be playing an attacking role with the defensive side an added bonus even though he’s been doing a lot better from a defensive effort standpoint we shouldn’t ever be relying on him to be one of the last lines of defence. I thought at points he executed some excellent midfield play with simple passes and lay offs (like to Shaw for the Ronaldo goal) and other times back to the losing the ball when it was easier to just lay it off and keep us moving at a solid pace. Definitely doesn’t help playing with Matic either. That midfield wasn’t good enough for us 5 years ago with Matic in his prime but it’s supposed to be enough now? I was saying in another thread it’s like fitting a Ferrari with lawnmower engine.

Really happy with his creativity, work rate and body language. It’s just finding the perfect role / partners for him to let him do his thing

 

[The United]

Pogba who keeps things simple and not being pressed like crazy can be a work of art in the midfield at times.

Some of his over the line balls will be more productive soon. We have a lot of runners up front now.

 

[golden_blunder]

The yellow from yesterday was extremely harsh on my opinion in a game that never looked like bubbling over.

It may have been but that’s not the first time he has done that, needs to be careful

 

[roonster09]

I love how Bruno just gets assists….Pogba gets questioned. Penalties don’t count, assists that are five yard passes don’t count. Clever passes into the box don’t count if they get dummied etc etc. For all other players they just count.

You do the same thing in other threads.

 

[Borys]

Good post.

He’s definitely been our best player since the season started but from a purely midfield play standpoint If you take away the glorious assists you can see then he’s still not running the midfield. We don’t really ever have total control of the game when it hangs in the balance. In fact our tempo constantly jerks around and we are left very open at the back.

He should be playing an attacking role with the defensive side an added bonus even though he’s been doing a lot better from a defensive effort standpoint we shouldn’t ever be relying on him to be one of the last lines of defence. I thought at points he executed some excellent midfield play with simple passes and lay offs (like to Shaw for the Ronaldo goal) and other times back to the losing the ball when it was easier to just lay it off and keep us moving at a solid pace. Definitely doesn’t help playing with Matic either. That midfield wasn’t good enough for us 5 years ago with Matic in his prime but it’s supposed to be enough now? I was saying in another thread it’s like fitting a Ferrari with lawnmower engine.

Really happy with his creativity, work rate and body language. It’s just finding the perfect role / partners for him to let him do his thing

He's much more effective when he plays it quick, I don't like this approach when Pogba dwells on the ball waiting for a movement up front. It's much better to play it quick and simple, especially in first 60' of the game. No wonder be was often moved from LW to midfield for the last 30' as the game is more open and pressing is less intensive. Too often with Pogba in midfield we become too direct. That might be down to the instructions as I don't think our coaches have any particular idea how to play through midfield.

On the Matic part, it's not good enough but it's not any better with Fred, and the only remaining possibly is McTominay so there we have it.

 

[The United]

You do the same thing in other threads.

That is funny.

 

[roonster09]

He's much more effective when he plays it quick, I don't like this approach when Pogba dwells on the ball waiting for a movement up front. It's much better to play it quick and simple, especially in first 60' of the game. No wonder be was often moved from LW to midfield for the last 30' as the game is more open and pressing is less intensive. Too often with Pogba in midfield we become too direct. That might be down to the instructions as I don't think our coaches have any particular idea how to play through midfield.

On the Matic part, it's not good enough but it's not any better with Fred, and the only remaining possibly is McTominay so there we have it.

Play it quick and simple for which player? Also why is that in every thread we see the same "keep it simple". Keep it simple and do what exactly?

Pogba has all the attributes to pull off any pass from deeper position, there is a clear sync when Pogba receives the ball, players make the runs. They trust him to pull that key pass over the defense line. Also Pogba keeps it simple and ticking when he plays in deeper midfield and also plays good passes. He doesn't always go for killer pass.

 

[The United]

Play it quick and simple for which player? Also why is that in every thread we see the same "keep it simple". Keep it simple and do what exactly?

Pogba has all the attributes to pull off any pass from deeper position, there is a clear sync when Pogba receives the ball, players make the runs. They trust him to pull that key pass over the defense line. Also Pogba keeps it simple and ticking when he plays in deeper midfield and also plays good passes. He doesn't always go for killer pass.

Keep it simple for him means he passes as soon as he sees the passing lane or just recycles the ball.

In the past, he was guilty of having extra touch or taking on 3 man then the passing lane was closed at that point or lost the ball etc. I am not saying that happened every game. But, it was my observation in a lot of games and other had that too.

Some players are much better playing according to their instincts instead of having time to think if they can do another way. Rashford seems to be another player like that.

 

[Jeppers7]

You do the same thing in other threads.

If you can’t figure out why....then I’m struggling to help you

 

[Borys]

Play it quick and simple for which player? Also why is that in every thread we see the same "keep it simple". Keep it simple and do what exactly?

Pogba has all the attributes to pull off any pass from deeper position, there is a clear sync when Pogba receives the ball, players make the runs. They trust him to pull that key pass over the defense line. Also Pogba keeps it simple and ticking when he plays in deeper midfield and also plays good passes. He doesn't always go for killer pass.

Maybe a lot of people see the same issue? McTominay and Fred keep it simple and pass it quickly. It's what they are asked to do because of their limitations and they do it effectively, if they can find a player with a pass surely Pogba can do it too.
I never said Pogba "always" goes for the killer pass, but he does that a lot and I think it'd benefit the team more if he stayed in short to mid range more often. I have no problem with midfielders having very few assists, if they can provide the key pass in the build up. See second Ronaldo goal where Pogba played it quickly to Shaw. I don't think his long passing is effective with the opposition team in good defensive shape and behind the ball, much better when we're counter attacking ( yesterday Ronaldo goal again, previously Greenwood goal from Pogba pass).

Keep it simple for him means he passes as soon as he sees the passing lane or just recycles the ball.

In the past, he was guilty of having extra touch or taking on 3 man then the passing lane was closed at that point or lost the ball etc. I am not saying that happened every game. But, it was my observation in a lot of games and other had that too.

Some players are much better playing according to their instincts instead of having time to think if they can do another way. Rashford seems to be another player like that.

I agree. Plus it's not about Pogba passing, which is excellent, but those long passes when team is in defensive shape are just rarely effective. It seems forced to me, but again, it may be what Ole wants us to play.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah I love Scholes and absolutely he wasn’t just a safe or simple passer, he had lovely vision. But when he was alongside Veron you could see the difference in range and style of passes, even towards the end of their careers I would say Giggs was a more creative and inventive passer than Scholes.

Scholes could ping it better than anyone I’ve seen, he didn’t have a left foot yet he could create the space for those diagonals no matter where he was and land them far more consistently than Pogba could. Much better pace too. Pogba gets a lot of praise for that now but Scholes was in a different league, too often they’re a bit casual, floaty and slow things down. But the incisive and inventive passes, Pogba’s top tier and I wouldn’t have said Scholes was personally.

Aye, ok, fair enough.

 

[roonster09]

If you can’t figure out why....then I’m struggling to help you

Because you are Pogba fanboy and hate other players getting praised?

 

[roonster09]

Maybe a lot of people see the same issue? McTominay and Fred keep it simple and pass it quickly. It's what they are asked to do because of their limitations and they do it effectively, if they can find a player with a pass surely Pogba can do it too.
I never said Pogba "always" goes for the killer pass, but he does that a lot and I think it'd benefit the team more if he stayed in short to mid range more often. I have no problem with midfielders having very few assists, if they can provide the key pass in the build up. See second Ronaldo goal where Pogba played it quickly to Shaw. I don't think his long passing is effective with the opposition team in good defensive shape and behind the ball, much better when we're counter attacking ( yesterday Ronaldo goal again, previously Greenwood goal from Pogba pass).

McTominay and Fred keep it simple because their skillset is very limited. When the player is making the run they won't play the pass because they don't have the ability and confidence to pull it off.

His long passes have created lot of chances, you don't always end up in a position like the second goal where you find excellent ball carrier in good position and acres of space. He played side foot pass to Bruno and Martial so many times and almost everytime they end up with 1v1 with keeper, sometimes in position to score, sometimes in a position to create for others. He doesn't play long passes for the sake of it too, he goes for it when he things he can set player free or when he switches the game.

Also Pogba's game was near perfect CM game, 115 passes and at 92% completion rate.

Pogba as a midfielder is a problem because of his defensive issues, not because of his on the ball ability.

 

[roonster09]

Keep it simple for him means he passes as soon as he sees the passing lane or just recycles the ball.

In the past, he was guilty of having extra touch or taking on 3 man then the passing lane was closed at that point or lost the ball etc. I am not saying that happened every game. But, it was my observation in a lot of games and other had that too.

Some players are much better playing according to their instincts instead of having time to think if they can do another way. Rashford seems to be another player like that.

He tried to dribble past players, trying to shield the ball and lost in dangerous position, that happened few times. But there are many times when he was able to beat them and created attacking position out of nothing. I agree he shouldn't do that but I would rather have players who takes risks and create chances because they have the ability rather than players who can't pass more than 5 yards to their nearest player. We have every midfielder with that non-ability, only Pogba has passing range and more often than not he picks the passes well.

 

[Jeppers7]

Because you are Pogba fanboy and hate other players getting praised?

Not at all in fact if you go into the other threads you’ll see I often praise these other players. Yesterday for example. Have you got anything more grown up to add?

 

[jem]

When he is on form, he is just a delight to watch. I never quite bought the excuse that he needed better players around him (look at how Bruno just came in and elevated a very pedestrian team.) However, it is still amazing to see him click through the gears, feeding players of the quality of Ronaldo, Greenwood, and Bruno.

 

[Interval]

Player of the season so far. He is the perfect man to take your team from 80pct there to 110pct there. Give him a 60pct team around him, he struggles. He's a beast right now.

 

[roonster09]

Not at all in fact if you go into the other threads you’ll see I often praise these other players. Yesterday for example. Have you got anything more grown up to add?

Sure, I have seen in Bruno's thread. "He is my second favorite player but let me shit on him all the time. Oh wait I will praise him couple of times just in case it's needed to prove I have nothing against him"

Grown up to add? Hilarious you asking this, when you come up with some real silly stuff in Pogba's thread. All this from this game week. Nothing about his performance and just moaning about posters.

Spoiler: Grown up posts

More lies

I love how Bruno just gets assists….Pogba gets questioned. Penalties don’t count, assists that are five yard passes don’t count. Clever passes into the box don’t count if they get dummied etc etc. For all other players they just count.

Shame that we have the usual posters creating a negative atmosphere in here. Despite themselves…they just can’t help it.

He’s got to be due 68 poor games by now…..I can’t understand this ratio thing. Come on Paul sort it out, there’s posters on this forum waiting to post in this thread and they’ve had about three chances since January….it’s just not fair

 

[jem]

Yeah I love Scholes and absolutely he wasn’t just a safe or simple passer, he had lovely vision. But when he was alongside Veron you could see the difference in range and style of passes, even towards the end of their careers I would say Giggs was a more creative and inventive passer than Scholes.

Scholes could ping it better than anyone I’ve seen, he didn’t have a left foot yet he could create the space for those diagonals no matter where he was and land them far more consistently than Pogba could. Much better pace too. Pogba gets a lot of praise for that now but Scholes was in a different league, too often they’re a bit casual, floaty and slow things down. But the incisive and inventive passes, Pogba’s top tier and I wouldn’t have said Scholes was personally.

Spot on. Scholes is my favourite passer ever but that pass he made to Rooney against Milan in the Champion's League (that genius little flick) is a fairly routine one for Pogba.

 

[Rozay]

Keep it simple for him means he passes as soon as he sees the passing lane or just recycles the ball.

In the past, he was guilty of having extra touch or taking on 3 man then the passing lane was closed at that point or lost the ball etc. I am not saying that happened every game. But, it was my observation in a lot of games and other had that too.

Some players are much better playing according to their instincts instead of having time to think if they can do another way. Rashford seems to be another player like that.

Heaven knows what games you watch. One thing that Pogba never, ever does is turn down a pass that is on. If he takes his time on the ball, you can be certain that there isn’t an obvious pass to make. I can’t even think of one occasion where a forward has made a run that Pogba has spotted and not made the pass.

People just get carried away with things and start saying characteristics that probably should apply to the profile that has been created of Pogba. I’ve read ‘he takes shots when he should be passing’. He literally never does that. He almost has to be begged to shoot. But I get why they would say that. It’s a lazy opinion, one that probably should apply to Pogba, only it doesn’t actually. To many casual listeners, that won’t even matter.

 

[The United]

Heaven knows what games you watch. One thing that Pogba never, ever does is turn down a pass that is on. If he takes his time on the ball, you can be certain that there isn’t an obvious pass to make. I can’t even think of one occasion where a forward has made a run that Pogba has spotted and not made the pass.

People just get carried away with things and start saying characteristics that probably should apply to the profile that has been created of Pogba. I’ve read ‘he takes shots when he should be passing’. He literally never does that. He almost has to be begged to shoot. But I get why they would say that. It’s a lazy opinion, one that probably should apply to Pogba, only it doesn’t actually. To many casual listeners, that won’t even matter.

Just go back to his first two/three years... Remember this is not about his productivity only. We are talking about when he is at his best.

 

[Brwned]

Spot on. Scholes is my favourite passer ever but that pass he made to Rooney against Milan in the Champion's League (that genius little flick) is a fairly routine one for Pogba.

Yeah had the exact same one in mind, with exactly the same point! You can definitely pull out a collection of beauties from Scholes but they just weren't a regular thing for him, even when pushed on as a #10. Pogba would kill to have his short passing and alertness though. Pogba's a bit of a showboat and he likes to beat players individually, but mostly he's just not that sharp in finding space and quickly finding the options. You just couldn't get near Scholes most of the time!

 

[Marwood]

I love how Bruno just gets assists….Pogba gets questioned. Penalties don’t count, assists that are five yard passes don’t count. Clever passes into the box don’t count if they get dummied etc etc. For all other players they just count.

Jeppers give yourself a break from this vicitim complex thing. Relax. You can't be enjoying it when you view everything through this prism of how hard done by Pogba is.

The final action in a move gets the assist which in my opinion was Martials dummy. But it doesn't matter anyway. Pogba was really good. Doesn't take away from his performance at all.

 

[roonster09]

Heaven knows what games you watch. One thing that Pogba never, ever does is turn down a pass that is on. If he takes his time on the ball, you can be certain that there isn’t an obvious pass to make. I can’t even think of one occasion where a forward has made a run that Pogba has spotted and not made the pass.

People just get carried away with things and start saying characteristics that probably should apply to the profile that has been created of Pogba. I’ve read ‘he takes shots when he should be passing’. He literally never does that. He almost has to be begged to shoot. But I get why they would say that. It’s a lazy opinion, one that probably should apply to Pogba, only it doesn’t actually. To many casual listeners, that won’t even matter.

Exactly. Pogba is more measured in picking the passes, he keeps the game ticking and when he spots the runs (usually our players makes the run when he gets possession and space), he goes for that pass.

For me it's very simple, Pogba taking few extra touches is never a problem as he creates and picks the passes that creates attacking situations. If Matic takes extra touches it's a big problem, after all the extra touches and slowing the game to dead position, he just passes the ball to the player next to him.

 

[horsechoker]

People just get carried away with things and start saying characteristics that probably should apply to the profile that has been created of Pogba. I’ve read ‘he takes shots when he should be passing’. He literally never does that. He almost has to be begged to shoot. But I get why they would say that. It’s a lazy opinion, one that probably should apply to Pogba, only it doesn’t actually. To many casual listeners, that won’t even matter.

He used to shoot from range a lot in his first season but rarely hit the target, now he only shoots if there's a clear path and he's certain he can score.

 

[jem]

Yeah had the exact same one in mind, with exactly the same point! You can definitely pull out a collection of beauties from Scholes but they just weren't a regular thing for him, even when pushed on as a #10. Pogba would kill to have his short passing and alertness though. Pogba's a bit of a showboat and he likes to beat players individually, but mostly he's just not that sharp in finding space and quickly finding the options. You just couldn't get near Scholes most of the time!

Scholes' spatial awareness before receiving a pass was second to none. Like a chess master (cliche I know!), he just seemed to have it all worked out before he even had the ball.

 

[Marwood]

Yeah had the exact same one in mind, with exactly the same point! You can definitely pull out a collection of beauties from Scholes but they just weren't a regular thing for him. Pogba would kill to have his short passing and alertness though. Pogba's a bit of a showboat and he likes to beat players individually, but mostly he's just not that sharp in finding space and quickly finding the options. You just couldn't get near Scholes most of the time!

I also thing had Scholes wanted to, had he been more willing to give the ball away, his passing could have been a bit more maverick. But his passing fitted with his personality. More about team than individual.

 

[Brwned]

I also thing had Scholes wanted to, had he been more willing to give the ball away, his passing could have been a bit more maverick. But his passing fitted with his personality. More about team than individual.

Totally! Would’ve been cool to see that version of Scholes but still think I prefer the version we got! Just quietly controlling things all in a day’s work. The odd rocket goal to accent his understated role otherwise always worked really nicely too! Ah, I miss him.

 

[Jeppers7]

Sure, I have seen in Bruno's thread. "He is my second favorite player but let me shit on him all the time. Oh wait I will praise him couple of times just in case it's needed to prove I have nothing against him"

Grown up to add? Hilarious you asking this, when you come up with some real silly stuff in Pogba's thread. All this from this game week. Nothing about his performance and just moaning about posters.

Who cares if it was a friendly. If I’d scored that free kick in my back garden I’d celebrate it. Also he’s a winner. I doubt he cared that it was only a friendly.

Magnifico. What a player

MOTM for me yesterday. I thought Greenwood was outstanding, AWB, Shaw, Maguire and Lindelof all played well. Pogbas passing was sublime but Bruno’s influence on the team yesterday was outstanding. A world class footballer.

Excellent performance. The first assist was sublime, should have had more assists and I’m giving him an assist for the second goal as well.

I thought he was good today. I actually think he’s better when you’re at the game. He’s extremely involved in every aspect of our play. You see it more in the stadium than on TV. The goal was absolutely brilliant. World class.

I think that’s unlikely really, perhaps I just give an honest opinion in there on his performances? These are from the start of this season....on the flip side I thought he was poor against Southampton and Wolves. Many thought he was poor yesterday but from the actually game I thought he played well. Maybe the negative posts when he hasn’t played well just trigger you more than they should.

 

[roonster09]

I think that’s unlikely really, perhaps I just give an honest opinion in there on his performances? These are from the start of this season....on the flip side I thought he was poor against Southampton and Wolves. Many thought he was poor yesterday but from the actually game I thought he played well. Maybe the negative posts when he hasn’t played well just trigger you more than they should.

Sure why not, or maybe because I saw a poster consistently moaning about Bruno's assists for weeks and months.

 

[Jeppers7]

Sure why not, or maybe because I saw a poster consistently moaning about Bruno's assists for weeks and months.

Perhaps I’m all for equality

 

[Rozay]

Just go back to his first two/three years... Remember this is not about his productivity only. We are talking about when he is at his best.

There are countless examples, and video compilations to boot, of Pogba spotting a forward run and playing the pass in his first two/three years. The videos of his ‘should have had an assist’ passes from that period have been discussed infinitely.

 

[The United]

There are countless examples, and video compilations to boot, of Pogba spotting a forward run and playing the pass in his first two/three years. The videos of his ‘should have had an assist’ passes from that period have been discussed infinitely.

As I said, he is best when he keeps it simple. You can disagree with it.

 

[Rozay]

As I said, he is best when he keeps it simple. You can disagree with it.

That obviously wasn’t all you said, otherwise there wouldn’t have been a different comment for me to respond to. But cool.

 

[kouroux]

Is he the only one? If redcafe is the benchmark lots of shit has been written about other players too.

And I think that constant fight between 2 sets of fans who disappear or not is kind of boring and childish.

This is the Pogba thread. Of course I'm only gonna talk about him here. No other player in our team has been as harshly as criticized as Pogba in my entire lifetime as a Utd supporter

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

feck it, give him Ronaldo money. He might just deserve it.

 

[JPRouve]

This is the Pogba thread. Of course I'm only gonna talk about him here. No other player in our team has been as harshly as criticized as Pogba in my entire lifetime as a Utd supporter

Shaw has received the same kind of criticisms for a few years and it was as daft. You will notice that they have something in common.