Paul Pogba | Back in full training

Rozay

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Latest Watford player or fellow pro at all really to come out with comments like this:


This season has been such a shame, can’t wait for the gang to be back together, with PP and Bruno in the middle.
 

11101

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Latest Watford player or fellow pro at all really to come out with comments like this:


This season has been such a shame, can’t wait for the gang to be back together, with PP and Bruno in the middle.
I dont think we'll ever see Pogba in our shirt again, at least not in the flesh. It's a shame because hes undoubtedly our most talented player and Gray is right, you can see that from watching him.
 

Rozay

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I dont think we'll ever see Pogba in our shirt again, at least not in the flesh. It's a shame because hes undoubtedly our most talented player and Gray is right, you can see that from watching him.
Fair enough, I disagree with that. I expect him to be here next season at the very least. We’re not going to give him away and we definitely won’t be trading our star player for a pile of scrap metal from Turin. We’ll see if someone shows us the money.

I’ve always said, personally, I think he’s open to leaving but I don’t think he’s ‘desperate’ to leave. If nobody matches our valuation he will be staying, and I doubt he’ll do it kicking and screaming either, he’ll get on with it. In the medium term, I think there’s as much a chance of him signing a new deal here than him leaving this summer. Basically, I don’t think it is more likely that Juventus offer us £100m than it is that he signs a new deal, and I think those are the only two options to end this thing one way or another - otherwise we continue into next season with the ‘will he, won’t he’, which nobody wants of course.
 

MadDogg

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I dont think we'll ever see Pogba in our shirt again, at least not in the flesh. It's a shame because hes undoubtedly our most talented player and Gray is right, you can see that from watching him.
Unless this season is completely cancelled (unlikely at this stage), of course we'll see him again. He won't be leaving until this season is finished, and even then it's not as certain as it looked 5 months ago.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Unless this season is completely cancelled (unlikely at this stage), of course we'll see him again. He won't be leaving until this season is finished, and even then it's not as certain as it looked 5 months ago.
Yeah because he can't get the move he wants. How lucky are we?

If he still wants out and let's not be naive he clearly does then its better he leaves. His fan boys need to get over this. Keeping unhappy players never goes well. Liverpool got rid of Suarez and Coutinho as soon as they said they wanted out and have ever looked back.

By asking for unrealistic money for him we are basically blocking him from going and keeping an unhappy player on 280k a week. I just don't get it. Next summer his value will halve.
 

MadDogg

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Yeah because he can't get the move he wants. How lucky are we?

If he still wants out and let's not be naive he clearly does then its better he leaves. His fan boys need to get over this. Keeping unhappy players never goes well. Liverpool got rid of Suarez and Coutinho as soon as they said they wanted out and have ever looked back.

By asking for unrealistic money for him we are basically blocking him from going and keeping an unhappy player on 280k a week. I just don't get it. Next summer his value will halve.
It's not clear that he wants to leave.

It''s clear that he wants to leave if we are going to continue to be shit. However what nobody knows (not me, not you, not anyone else on this forum) is if he would still want to leave if he thinks we are getting close to competing at the top again.

  1. He signs a new contract and stays. This means he thinks we're getting close to competing at the top and that is his preferred option.
  2. He stays but doesn't sign a new contract. This means that he stills wants to go and we've priced him out of a move. We may be willing to take the risk that we then prove we are getting back to the top and he will then sign a new contract once we prove it. If we don't (or even if we do but he still wants to leave) he then gets the move he wants for relatively cheap the following season.
  3. He wants to leave and we are willing to sell him. If he's truly unhappy and makes a big deal of it then this is what will probably happen as I don't believe we'll keep him again if he's really pushing for it.

Those are the three options. Nobody knows which will actually happen.
 

Nou_Camp99

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It's not clear that he wants to leave.

It''s clear that he wants to leave if we are going to continue to be shit. However what nobody knows (not me, not you, not anyone else on this forum) is if he would still want to leave if he thinks we are getting close to competing at the top again.

  1. He signs a new contract and stays. This means he thinks we're getting close to competing at the top and that is his preferred option.
  2. He stays but doesn't sign a new contract. This means that he stills wants to go and we've priced him out of a move. We may be willing to take the risk that we then prove we are getting back to the top and he will then sign a new contract once we prove it. If we don't (or even if we do but he still wants to leave) he then gets the move he wants for relatively cheap the following season.
  3. He wants to leave and we are willing to sell him. If he's truly unhappy and makes a big deal of it then this is what will probably happen as I don't believe we'll keep him again if he's really pushing for it.

Those are the three options. Nobody knows which will actually happen.
He said in Japan last summer he wants to go. His brother and agent haven't shut up all season about him wanting to go either.

Why are some of our fans in such denial about this? If it was all down to Pogba he'd already be gone mate. Time to get behind the players who want to be here and give their all. He's not one of them.
 

11101

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Unless this season is completely cancelled (unlikely at this stage), of course we'll see him again. He won't be leaving until this season is finished, and even then it's not as certain as it looked 5 months ago.
Not in the flesh we won't. It's going to be at the very least next season before fans are allowed at games.
 

Adam-Utd

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He said in Japan last summer he wants to go. His brother and agent haven't shut up all season about him wanting to go either.

Why are some of our fans in such denial about this? If it was all down to Pogba he'd already be gone mate. Time to get behind the players who want to be here and give their all. He's not one of them.
Things can change. Last summer things were very different and he was just booed off the pitch very undeservedly.

He had the right to question if he still wanted to be here. He hasn't refused to play or train, his injury was genuine which you/others are struggling to accept.

I think maybe getting so emotionally invested in players is maybe not such a good thing for you? people stay, people leave... it happens.
 

romufc

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Things can change. Last summer things were very different and he was just booed off the pitch very undeservedly.

He had the right to question if he still wanted to be here. He hasn't refused to play or train, his injury was genuine which you/others are struggling to accept.

I think maybe getting so emotionally invested in players is maybe not such a good thing for you? people stay, people leave... it happens.
I was in the camp of Pogba wants to leave, he is disruptive. The comments in Japan saying he wants a new challenge and all was probably because his agent was in his ear and there were teams who could afford him. Fast forward a year, if we finish within CL places and he can see an improvement in the team, that itself will be a new challenge from fighting top 4 to challenging the top 2. Add to that, not many clubs can afford him right now, chances are he stays are much higher.
 

Adam-Utd

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I was in the camp of Pogba wants to leave, he is disruptive. The comments in Japan saying he wants a new challenge and all was probably because his agent was in his ear and there were teams who could afford him. Fast forward a year, if we finish within CL places and he can see an improvement in the team, that itself will be a new challenge from fighting top 4 to challenging the top 2. Add to that, not many clubs can afford him right now, chances are he stays are much higher.
I think by his own admission/people close to him, it was never that he didn't love the club or enjoy being here.

He was upset that he'd just had his best season in terms of goals/assists in a season that he'd been marginalised by Mourinho, and then certain sections of the fanbase turned on him because of that row. People having a go at him at the end of the Cardiff match he felt was very unfair and clearly upset him, and as you say his agents/brothers all said why do you need to accept this? you can move on where somebody appreciates you.

I think those feelings will have settled down now and as you say his options may be limited, but i'm sure if we back him he will be happy.
 

romufc

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I think by his own admission/people close to him, it was never that he didn't love the club or enjoy being here.

He was upset that he'd just had his best season in terms of goals/assists in a season that he'd been marginalised by Mourinho, and then certain sections of the fanbase turned on him because of that row. People having a go at him at the end of the Cardiff match he felt was very unfair and clearly upset him, and as you say his agents/brothers all said why do you need to accept this? you can move on where somebody appreciates you.

I think those feelings will have settled down now and as you say his options may be limited, but i'm sure if we back him he will be happy.
I do not think it had anything to do with his affection for the club, on the contrary, I think he truly does care about the club.

Agreed, he was upset and the fact that he is a WC winner, 27 years of age, which is the prime and he doesnt want to be fighting top 4 and getting boos from fans. He wants to be competing for titles.

As the team starts doing better, I suspect he will shine and the crowd will be loving him.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Things can change. Last summer things were very different and he was just booed off the pitch very undeservedly.

He had the right to question if he still wanted to be here. He hasn't refused to play or train, his injury was genuine which you/others are struggling to accept.

I think maybe getting so emotionally invested in players is maybe not such a good thing for you? people stay, people leave... it happens.
The only emotional ones are the fan boys begging he stays. I couldnt care less if he does. He's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. On his day he can be unplayable. That's been 5 times a season on average for us. But let's blame everyone else for it. Needs the right coach. Needs the right teammates etc.

Eventually people just got to accept he's just a good player. If he was that great nobody would have had an issue giving us the price he wanted for him. But they won't. Why not? Because he's not a 100m player and never was.
 

jackal&hyde

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He said in Japan last summer he wants to go. His brother and agent haven't shut up all season about him wanting to go either.

Why are some of our fans in such denial about this? If it was all down to Pogba he'd already be gone mate. Time to get behind the players who want to be here and give their all. He's not one of them.
Do you know how many players that are now universally beloved asked SAF to leave at one point or another and he rejected the requests?
 

laughtersassassin

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The only emotional ones are the fan boys begging he stays. I couldnt care less if he does. He's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. On his day he can be unplayable. That's been 5 times a season on average for us. But let's blame everyone else for it. Needs the right coach. Needs the right teammates etc.

Eventually people just got to accept he's just a good player. If he was that great nobody would have had an issue giving us the price he wanted for him. But they won't. Why not? Because he's not a 100m player and never was.
Or on the opposite side of the coin only the irrational blind fans talk like this.
 

izec

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Do you know how many players that are now universally beloved asked SAF to leave at one point or another and he rejected the requests?
Yeah, but he spoke to the media. And i don't remember that many player's entourage and agents speaking on a weekly basis about the player and his ambitions to leave. If he wants to leave to win trophies, fair play, but let's not pretend he wants to stay badly or that it is a normal situation at United. The biggest issue is the asking price and that is holding up a potential sale, especially now in this unknown climate. If Pogba wants to stay, i am sure a contract renewal could be done quickly.
 

jackal&hyde

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Yeah, but he spoke to the media. And i don't remember that many player's entourage and agents speaking on a weekly basis about the player and his ambitions to leave. If he wants to leave to win trophies, fair play, but let's not pretend he wants to stay badly or that it is a normal situation at United. The biggest issue is the asking price and that is holding up the deal, especially now in this unknown climate. If Pogba wants to stay, i am sure a contract renewal could be done quickly.
I agree, talking publicly was a big mistake.
 

fps

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Latest Watford player or fellow pro at all really to come out with comments like this:


This season has been such a shame, can’t wait for the gang to be back together, with PP and Bruno in the middle.
"He's somewhere you're not." Sounds like being marked by Pogba, for sure.
 

romufc

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Eventually people just got to accept he's just a good player. If he was that great nobody would have had an issue giving us the price he wanted for him. But they won't. Why not? Because he's not a 100m player and never was.
However much I dislike his attitude or how he has gone about things in the last year, there is no disputing he is a WC midfielder. There are times for us he has been complacent in losing the ball and what not.

18/19 - 16 goals 11 assists
17/18 - 6 goals 12 assists
16/17 - 9 goals 6 assists

Most of the time he has played CM.

KDB is world class
18 / 19 - 6 goals 11 assists - you will say he didnt play much... he played 15 less games than pogba
17/18 - 12 goals 21 assists
16/17 - 7 goals 21 assists

Now let us compare him to what you call a good player, Wijnaldum.

18 /19 - 5 goals 1 assist
17/18 - 2 goals 4 assists
16/17 - 6 goals 11 assists

You can see Pogba is better than a good player. You may think it is an excuse about Jose but, when you have a player who doesn't get along with a manager his output will never be the same.

I am sure you understand that once the team plays well, players all raise another level.
 

POF

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I agree, talking publicly was a big mistake.
It wasn't a mistake at all. If it was a mistake you wouldn't have the same sentiments being echoed by his agent and brothers ad nauseum.

He made the comments to try to force through a move. If he doesn't leave this summer it will be because nobody is willing to pay the asking price, not a realisation that United are on the right path or some underlying love for the club.
 

Adam-Utd

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The only emotional ones are the fan boys begging he stays. I couldnt care less if he does. He's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. On his day he can be unplayable. That's been 5 times a season on average for us. But let's blame everyone else for it. Needs the right coach. Needs the right teammates etc.

Eventually people just got to accept he's just a good player. If he was that great nobody would have had an issue giving us the price he wanted for him. But they won't. Why not? Because he's not a 100m player and never was.
There's a difference.

People want Pogba to stay because he's a great player.

People want Pogba to leave because of other reasons unrelated to the pitch.
 

fps

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However much I dislike his attitude or how he has gone about things in the last year, there is no disputing he is a WC midfielder. There are times for us he has been complacent in losing the ball and what not.

18/19 - 16 goals 11 assists
17/18 - 6 goals 12 assists
16/17 - 9 goals 6 assists

Most of the time he has played CM.

KDB is world class
18 / 19 - 6 goals 11 assists - you will say he didnt play much... he played 15 less games than pogba
17/18 - 12 goals 21 assists
16/17 - 7 goals 21 assists

Now let us compare him to what you call a good player, Wijnaldum.

18 /19 - 5 goals 1 assist
17/18 - 2 goals 4 assists
16/17 - 6 goals 11 assists

You can see Pogba is better than a good player. You may think it is an excuse about Jose but, when you have a player who doesn't get along with a manager his output will never be the same.

I am sure you understand that once the team plays well, players all raise another level.
Wijnaldum is a completely different player, and this is a misuse of statistics.
 

Beachryan

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Situation slightly reminds me of the Rooney 'negotiations' back when he looked like leaving initially. When - with hindsight - he was correct in questioning what Fergie was doing with regards to signings and where Manchester United were trying to be.

Pogba is (certainly was pre-injury) our best outfield footballer. He has won trophies for club and country. He's approaching his peak. Just like Rooney back then, it's perfectly natural for someone like that to not want to be scrapping for CL places, or playing in the Europa League. Given how important his physicality is to his game, and his position, he probably only has 3 more years at the very top. Why would he commit to us if we can't show him that we're going in the right direction?

And for all those saying it's his job to pick us up as our best player - he can only work with what he has around him. The number of assist he should have had is ridiculous. Yes, he's lost the ball and that has lead to goals - but each of those times it's been around the centre circle - there are other players involved.

The absolute best case for us as United fans is that we keep him, and we do so by convincing him the 'project' is going in the right direction by improving the squad with signings. We're already in a better place than 18 months ago, and if we can add 2 more first XI players, reintegrate Pogba we're really not far off being a top team again, just in time for the inevitable 'cycle' of Liverpool and City to kick in.
 

romufc

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Wijnaldum is a completely different player, and this is a misuse of statistics.
He is a box to box for Liverpool.

Shall I find a player who plays 6 in a 4-2-3-1 and compare him?

Kovacic is a good player.

II will let you give me players you think are similar then?
 

jackal&hyde

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It wasn't a mistake at all. If it was a mistake you wouldn't have the same sentiments being echoed by his agent and brothers ad nauseum.

He made the comments to try to force through a move. If he doesn't leave this summer it will be because nobody is willing to pay the asking price, not a realisation that United are on the right path or some underlying love for the club.
And that is to say that the club will not allow themselves to be bullied; the correct decision imo. As long as he remains professional in training and on the pitch there is no problem imo. and he has been just that, in spite of what the conspiracy theories suggest. People can also change their mind you know, many players have throughout the years. The end of last season was dire but things are looking different now, Paul might still want out but he could just as well sign a new contract, i would't be surprised of either.
 

Adisa

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Funny thing is, I never took to him at Juve, wasn't keen on us signing him and weirdly preferred Pjanic. Still see the same player although slightly more mature but I have come to love him here. Never seen a more unfairly scrutinized player in my life. Regarless of how the team plays, Pogba must always be fantastic.
 

Adam-Utd

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Wijnaldum is a completely different player, and this is a misuse of statistics.
To be fair it isn't.

Wijnaldum is required to 1 job, win the ball, recycle it and play it to the forwards.

Pogba had to do all of that AND score and assist. Since his injury the others have started to up their contributions so he won't have to do it all by himself, it'll make a big difference.

No surprise he looked immense when he came on against Watford with others actually doing their jobs more effectively.
 

romufc

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To be fair it isn't.

Wijnaldum is required to 1 job, win the ball, recycle it and play it to the forwards.

Pogba had to do all of that AND score and assist. Since his injury the others have started to up their contributions so he won't have to do it all by himself, it'll make a big difference.

No surprise he looked immense when he came on against Watford with others actually doing their jobs more effectively.
So you have been part of meetings with Klopp and his players? To know that Gini's role is to win the ball and recycle? Thats the DM's role which is Fabinho and I didnt use him as an example.

So a player playing second Midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 has to win the ball recycle, score, and assist ? Is there a point having creative midfielders / strikers/ holding midfielders then?

So why is Pogba only a good player? what is this being based on?
 

MadDogg

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He said in Japan last summer he wants to go. His brother and agent haven't shut up all season about him wanting to go either.

Why are some of our fans in such denial about this? If it was all down to Pogba he'd already be gone mate. Time to get behind the players who want to be here and give their all. He's not one of them.
I'm not really sure what your point is here. Of course he wanted to go last summer. We had been shit and he'd basically been the poster boy for that despite being our best player. I'm not sure why you keep going on about people being in denial about it.

There are signs that a lot has changed since then. We've got a more solid defence. We've signed Bruno to help with the creative duties. Rashford had taken the step up, as had Martial to a lesser extent. We are obviously going to try to sign Sancho at the end of the season. There's no guarantees, but for the first time since the season that he first joined us there is a real reason to think we've turned things around. Obviously the key will be consistently showing that on the field though.

It completely boils down to one question. Does he want to go because we've been shit, or does he want to go simply because he wants out of the club? If it's the former, then showing a significant improvement on the field may (emphasis on 'may') be enough for him to change his mind and want to stay here. He will then obviously play a big part in that improvement as this season starts back up again. If it's the latter then it won't change anything and it's 100% certain that he will still want to leave.
 

Rozay

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And that is to say that the club will not allow themselves to be bullied; the correct decision imo. As long as he remains professional in training and on the pitch there is no problem imo. and he has been just that, in spite of what the conspiracy theories suggest. People can also change their mind you know, many players have throughout the years. The end of last season was dire but things are looking different now, Paul might still want out but he could just as well sign a new contract, i would't be surprised of either.
Tbh I think those comments have given a section of commentators something to cling to. In fact, they have had a few things like that this season, the odd comment attributed to his brother who lives in Spain saying ‘he’d love for PP to play for Real Madrid’, the criticism of the club by Mino Raiola.

The reality is, the sentiments towards him began so much earlier than that. I think since the day he came back, he was looked at by some as some sort of Real Madrid player on loan to us. There was moaning and criticism, some of it was about ‘antics’, others about social media, hair etc. For those people, it has been fantastic that we can all now say ‘he said he wanted to leave’, which sounds more than reasonable as validation, and probably is, but this did not start then.
 

Rozay

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It wasn't a mistake at all. If it was a mistake you wouldn't have the same sentiments being echoed by his agent and brothers ad nauseum.

He made the comments to try to force through a move. If he doesn't leave this summer it will be because nobody is willing to pay the asking price, not a realisation that United are on the right path or some underlying love for the club.
So why hasn’t he tried to ‘force through a move’ then? He made that comment before the summer window even opened. Then it opened. Did anything you saw look like he was trying to force his way out? Did he turn up late for pre-season, or not return at all? When Real Madrid offered James and a bag of chips for him, did he go on strike? Did he demand we accept the offer? If not, how have you concluded he was trying to ‘force a move’?

I’m not in denial that Pogba may want, or have wanted, to move - but at no point has he tried to force a move. Di Maria forced a move. He refused to turn up for pre-season. Lukaku forced one. He refused to train during pre-season. Since Pogba’s comment last summer, there have only been two period he could have possibly moved. Summer window last year, January window this year. No fuss was created during either of them.