Paul Pogba revisited

El Jefe

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On social media recently, it seems like Pogba's time here is being viewed more favourably than it was while he was here and upon him leaving.

I think its fair to say he didn't meet the expectations he came with being a £89m signing on £290k a week but looking back I also have a bit more admiration for his time here. Post SAF, our big money signings have been Mata, Di Maria, Sanchez (wages), Lukaku, Maguire, Sancho, Casemiro, Antony and Hojlund. I'd say Pogba was the best of the lot for us, he just couldn't meet the expectations that were set for him, I'd argue no player has come to the league having as much expectation as he did based off the hype he had coming from Juve.

He wasn't without his issues, he could be lazy in his defensive duties, dribble in the wrong areas and be wildly inconsistent in the same game. His injuries in his last couple of seasons were also really frustrating. To contrast that, no player had his combination of composure in tight areas, ball carrying ability and could create chances at will.

He obviously could have been even better if he applied himself more and sought to be more mature but seeing how things have panned out for us and other big signings since he left, I think he deserves a lot more credit for how he performed here. When he played a consistent run of games we were rarely a poor team.

How would you rate his time here looking at how things have gone since he left?
 
El Jefe said:
On social media recently, it seems like Pogba's time here is being viewed more favourably than it was while he was here and upon him leaving.

I think its fair to say he didn't meet the expectations he came with being a £89m signing on £290k a week but looking back I also have a bit more admiration for his time here. Post SAF, our big money signings have been Mata, Di Maria, Sanchez (wages), Lukaku, Maguire, Sancho, Casemiro, Antony and Hojlund. I'd say Pogba was the best of the lot for us, he just couldn't meet the expectations that were set for him, I'd argue no player has come to the league having as much expectation as he did based off the hype he had coming from Juve.

He wasn't without his issues, he could be lazy in his defensive duties, dribble in the wrong areas and be wildly inconsistent in the same game. His injuries in his last couple of seasons were also really frustrating. To contrast that, no player had his combination of composure in tight areas, ball carrying ability and could create chances at will.

He obviously could have been even better if he applied himself more and sought to be more mature but seeing how things have panned out for us and other big signings since he left, I think he deserves a lot more credit for how he performed here. When he played a consistent run of games we were rarely a poor team.

How would you rate his time here looking at how things have gone since he left?
Click to expand...

A six out of ten.
 
El Jefe said:
On social media recently, it seems like Pogba's time here is being viewed more favourably than it was while he was here and upon him leaving.

I think its fair to say he didn't meet the expectations he came with being a £89m signing on £290k a week but looking back I also have a bit more admiration for his time here. Post SAF, our big money signings have been Mata, Di Maria, Sanchez (wages), Lukaku, Maguire, Sancho, Casemiro, Antony and Hojlund. I'd say Pogba was the best of the lot for us, he just couldn't meet the expectations that were set for him, I'd argue no player has come to the league having as much expectation as he did based off the hype he had coming from Juve.

He wasn't without his issues, he could be lazy in his defensive duties, dribble in the wrong areas and be wildly inconsistent in the same game. His injuries in his last couple of seasons were also really frustrating. To contrast that, no player had his combination of composure in tight areas, ball carrying ability and could create chances at will.

He obviously could have been even better if he applied himself more and sought to be more mature but seeing how things have panned out for us and other big signings since he left, I think he deserves a lot more credit for how he performed here. When he played a consistent run of games we were rarely a poor team.

How would you rate his time here looking at how things have gone since he left?
Click to expand...

Pogba is part of a broader trend of fans clutching at straws at any number of players and situations because we're underachieving in the present. We've seen similiar narratives about Rashford, Antony, Hojlund this year, as well as the sale of Careras, and last year it was about McTominay. Its simply "the grass is greener on the other side". If we were winning, none of this would be a "thing".

As for Pogba - he's 32 and has barely played football in 3 years, so it strains credulity to believe a 32 year old post doping version of Pogba would suddenly turn the clock back to 2017.
 
El Jefe said:
On social media recently, it seems like Pogba's time here is being viewed more favourably than it was while he was here and upon him leaving.

I think its fair to say he didn't meet the expectations he came with being a £89m signing on £290k a week but looking back I also have a bit more admiration for his time here. Post SAF, our big money signings have been Mata, Di Maria, Sanchez (wages), Lukaku, Maguire, Sancho, Casemiro, Antony and Hojlund. I'd say Pogba was the best of the lot for us, he just couldn't meet the expectations that were set for him, I'd argue no player has come to the league having as much expectation as he did based off the hype he had coming from Juve.

He wasn't without his issues, he could be lazy in his defensive duties, dribble in the wrong areas and be wildly inconsistent in the same game. His injuries in his last couple of seasons were also really frustrating. To contrast that, no player had his combination of composure in tight areas, ball carrying ability and could create chances at will.

He obviously could have been even better if he applied himself more and sought to be more mature but seeing how things have panned out for us and other big signings since he left, I think he deserves a lot more credit for how he performed here. When he played a consistent run of games we were rarely a poor team.

How would you rate his time here looking at how things have gone since he left?
Click to expand...


He was a 6-7 out of 10 who had the potential to be a 9 or even 10. Which is why so many had such problems with him. He was a flair player in a team that needed more solidity.
And unfortunately he got caught up in his own hype which made him even more irregular.

I always liked him, but wished he would do more.
 
We thought we were getting a Kroos and we ended up with an Ozil

Luxury player, provided some great moments for us but failed to become a very consistent dominant 6 or 8.

Probably the start of the decline in professional standards at the club as the influence and legacy of the Giggs, Rooney, Carrick era burned out and our hopes and leadership was placed onto the shoulders of Pogba, Rashford and Lingard - especially under Ole where there was a glimmer of hope of a new Class of 92 style resurgence of homegrown academy talent driving the club forward.

Ultimately I feel if we’d have had stronger characters stay in and around the squad for longer and been at the standard - Zlatan, RVP, Bastian etc that he could have had a very different career here, as could Martial and Rashford. He was probably the most talent of the bunch we had in the post-high standards era but like the other names lacked the professionalism and character to be truly successful and impose standards on the club and play consistently
 
I view him as one of the first key contributors to our lack of professionalism in the changing room.

He slowly lowered the bar for excellence in the team but was adept enough at maintaining his image on social media whilst doing it.
 
Raoul said:
Pogba is part of a broader trend of fans clutching at straws at any number of players and situations because we're underachieving in the present. We've seen similiar narratives about Rashford, Antony, Hojlund this year, as well as the sale of Careras, and last year it was about McTominay. Its simply "the grass is greener on the other side". If we were winning, none of this would be a "thing".

As for Pogba - he's 32 and has barely played football in 3 years, so it strains credulity to believe a 32 year old post doping version of Pogba would suddenly turn the clock back to 2017.
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I think that is a slightly different issue. Those players mentioned might be doing better wherever they are but there is not a world where anyone can look at Antony or Hojlund's time here with fondness.

What happened to Pogba after he left is of no relevance to me because injuries had already made him an unreliable player.

If we look at all of our signings post SAF, it would be hard to say he isn't one of the better ones no?
 
Feel quite sorry for him… the stick he got when he signed for us was unreal. Yet you have an 115m signing in Wirtz racking up nothing and he ain’t getting the same treatment.
 
ItDoesntEvenMata said:
We thought we were getting a Kroos and we ended up with an Ozil

Luxury player, provided some great moments for us but failed to become a very consistent dominant 6 or 8.

Probably the start of the decline in professional standards at the club as the influence and legacy of the Giggs, Rooney, Carrick era burned out and our hopes and leadership was placed onto the shoulders of Pogba, Rashford and Lingard - especially under Ole where there was a glimmer of hope of a new Class of 92 style resurgence of homegrown academy talent driving the club forward.

Ultimately I feel if we’d have had stronger characters stay in and around the squad for longer and been at the standard - Zlatan, RVP, Bastian etc that he could have had a very different career here, as could Martial and Rashford. He was probably the most talent of the bunch we had in the post-high standards era but like the other names lacked the professionalism and character to be truly successful and impose standards on the club and play consistently
Click to expand...
Sorry but this is a ridiculous disservice to Ozil, Ozil always made things happen and was vital in that Real Madrid team. He was great at arsenal too. Ozil was a different league compared to Pogba.
 
His floor was super low, his ceiling second to none, on average he was a 5.5/10-6/10. His ego was gigantic, he considered himself a player who could walk like Messi because that's how he understood himself to be. The most talented player at United since Rooney/Cristiano, by miles and miles. Undermined the manager. His documentary was pure cringe (saw the trailer). Wasted his career, but will always have the accolades with France to fall back on. Seems a prat.

Feel sorry for him having such a twisted brother.
 
El Jefe said:
I think that is a slightly different issue. Those players mentioned might be doing better wherever they are but there is not a world where anyone can look at Antony or Hojlund's time here with fondness.

What happened to Pogba after he left is of no relevance to me because injuries had already made him an unreliable player.

If we look at all of our signings post SAF, it would be hard to say he isn't one of the better ones no?
Click to expand...

He definitely was in terms of the post Fergie buys for sure. But part of the narrative of brining him up in recent days is to assuage the frustrations that our midfield isn't adequate and that Pogba would somehow be the solution.
 
Just never had the maturity as a bloke or player to be the real thing.

It also never gets mentioned but he came back one summer looking heavy, the lanky physique had gone and from there the injury problems started. Which ultimately was the end of his career.
 
Raoul said:
He definitely was in terms of the post Fergie buys for sure. But part of the narrative of brining him up in recent days is to assuage the frustrations that our midfield isn't adequate and that Pogba would somehow be the solution.
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That is a part of it but also how big money buys for other clubs have gone. Grealish is now on loan at Everton, Havertz was sold to Arsenal, Lukaku was terrible at Chelsea and of course Wirtz start at Liverpool is bringing up the topic again.

There is a record signing 'curse' which only a few seem to beat, VVD, Haaland and Gvardiol mainly and Rice and Caicedo are on track to join them too. At the time of Pogba's transfer, I'd say he was the first of this wave of record breaking transfers and looking back he's performed better than most, despite being in a dysfunctional United side.

ItDoesntEvenMata said:
We thought we were getting a Kroos and we ended up with an Ozil

Luxury player, provided some great moments for us but failed to become a very consistent dominant 6 or 8.

Probably the start of the decline in professional standards at the club as the influence and legacy of the Giggs, Rooney, Carrick era burned out and our hopes and leadership was placed onto the shoulders of Pogba, Rashford and Lingard - especially under Ole where there was a glimmer of hope of a new Class of 92 style resurgence of homegrown academy talent driving the club forward.

Ultimately I feel if we’d have had stronger characters stay in and around the squad for longer and been at the standard - Zlatan, RVP, Bastian etc that he could have had a very different career here, as could Martial and Rashford. He was probably the most talent of the bunch we had in the post-high standards era but like the other names lacked the professionalism and character to be truly successful and impose standards on the club and play consistently
Click to expand...
While I did like Pogba, everything you said here is correct. He did not help himself a lot of the time. At Juve, he had these strong characters and dressing room leaders who set the culture but he didn't have that here and didn't have the maturity to be that leader.
 
I liked and rated him for a while. But at some point i realised he was an extremely talented bad footballer. He could do whatever the hell he felt like with a football but what he felt like doing was pretty invariably one of the worst decisions available. He's like the anti muller. Or Real Madrid the year Benzema was really firing and they'd be crap and 2nd best for 85 minutes but would score enough goals to win the match in the 5 minutes they were on top. Both examples of teams overcoming a talent gap and doing whats necessary to win matches. That's the opposite of Pogba who would routinely be outperformed by weaker, less talented players.
 
Ultimately did not live up to expectations which was to be a world class midfielder, but he was comfortably better than many others, we had higher standards when he was signed. Finished second, won the Europa League etc.
He was much better than for example Enzo Fernandes has been.

The circus around him didn't help, but when we watch our midfield today I just laugh.
 
We should be more concerned about finding the hyena he buried at Old Trafford, we've been more cursed than usual since then.
 
He blew hot and cold. His ceiling was so high at times. When you hear about all his personal issues during his time here, it's no surprise the focus wasn't there. He wasn't a flop but rather a disappointment.
 
I feel sorry for him. He obviously had his issues, but I believe that with the right club and the right guidance he could have been so much better and done so much more. United post Fergie was never that club. Sure, he earned lots of money, but he also wasted what should have been his best years.

I know people expected loads because we paid a world record fee, but he was still just a 23-year old - very young for a midfielder - and was still developing. And let's face it, developing players has not been our forte for the past 12 years.
 
Was an outrageous passer. Some were just unbelievable.
 
He was an exceptionally talented player whose best performances reached an extremely high level, so it's not hard to see why people would start to view him as better than he was in the haze of nostalgia. Those performances number a handful though. He was usually crap and a truly terrible signing at the price.
 
I don't even remember him as a United player most days.

When I do remember I don't think I've seen a player hit the woodwork so often or get robbed of the ball trying to shield players off.

The talent was all there but for United I only ever saw a show pony apart from the occasional game when he would show his class.
 
A his best. There has been no better player post Ferguson

Just didn’t happen often enough
 
If the measure stick is our own gradual ever declining standard, then Pogba didn’t do badly. However, for his generational potential, he is a failure even if we account for his World Cup triumph and early career achievement with Juventus. He should be clear of someone like Bruno however the impressive stats Bruno can boast. Pogba just has too much natural talent in multiple aspect for midfielders that very few players possess. Yet his consistency and bottom level is too questionable.

The English media was unfair to him, some part did come from his celebrity like choice of life. He attracts the attention, both good and bad. In the end, the bad one hindered his career.
 
Thrived in a 4-3-3 next to Fred and Herrera with little defensive work to do, continued to flop when Ole moved to 4-2-3-1 post interim period.

I would in fact say he contributed most to getting him the job full time almost literally carried the team offensively, like Bruno does but the team looked better balanced while Pogba was doing it.
 
We should've built the team around him in a 4-3-3 with a controlling midfield instead of buying another attacking midfielder like Bruno and going to a counter attacking 4-2-3-1. He should've been the most advanced midfielder but signing Bruno made it impossible. He was never a player to play in the double pivot or a tempo setter like Modric. I don't now why people expected to him to be a Scholes. We should've signed quality DMs CMs to play behind him instead of signing Bruno. We needed control in midfield and it's a problem that still isn't solved.

This is hypothetical of course but the midfield out of all players we signed post Fergie I'd play is something like:

-----------Pogba----------------Fred/Herrera------------

-------------------Casemiro/Matic-------------------------
 
I think on one hand he never was what we wanted/needed him to be. The driving force that took us to the pinnacle. He wasn’t the type of player he looked like he should be. If I were to paint the image of the footballer Pogba actually was he’d be about 5”10 and less physically imposing. I think that his physique and stature gave a misrepresentation of his profile.

He didn’t have the skillset or mindset to play the position we most often asked him to play, and as a result he didn’t perform as well as we’d have liked. He had weaknesses defensively and aerially you wouldn’t expect perhaps looking at him and when his head wasn’t on it he could be extremely poor even against mediocre opponents.

On the flip side, his performances were far better than he is given credit for. He was judged differently to anyone else I’ve seen by pundits and the media. One time he got blocked from tracking his runner at a corner by another player…and slated for it!
He was more consistently 6/7 out of 10 than even Bruno has been. Controversial I know but Bruno’s performances are sketchy every season barring a late run of form, where Pogba would often take 3/4 games to get going then have 4/5/6 good games repeatedly as a pattern throughout seasons.

On a good day you were watching a truly world class talent (not necessarily player) and in his defence as a stretford ender we never put up with lazy players. I never remember the crowd getting on his back for being lazy during the game. Slack touches at times, maybe but not for effort. He was generally the player getting us forward and then joining the attack knitting it together.

He was one of our best players post SAF even if he followed the pattern of everyone else in being inconsistent. Time will hopefully be kinder to his performances.
 
Cassidy said:
Ultimately did not live up to expectations which was to be a world class midfielder, but he was comfortably better than many others, we had higher standards when he was signed. Finished second, won the Europa League etc.
He was much better than for example Enzo Fernandes has been.

The circus around him didn't help, but when we watch our midfield today I just laugh.
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And many other midfielders signed for world record fees who are at best « solid » midfielders

He may have been stupid, not lived to the expectations and overall insufferable but he was better than most gave and still give him credit for
 
Felt like he was injured all the time. I can’t stand injury prone players. Can’t count on them.
 
Reditus said:
A his best. There has been no better player post Ferguson

Just didn’t happen often enough
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Pretty much this. His brilliant moments were incredible, but far too infrequent. Even in the same match he would be two different players -- brilliant and ridiculous within the same 90+ minute time frame.
 
I thought he was really good the first 3 years, the final 3 weren’t much to write home about
 
Newtonius said:
Thrived in a 4-3-3 next to Fred and Herrera with little defensive work to do, continued to flop when Ole moved to 4-2-3-1 post interim period.

I would in fact say he contributed most to getting him the job full time almost literally carried the team offensively, like Bruno does but the team looked better balanced while Pogba was doing it.
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it was a shame that was maybe our most enjoyable time post SAF. We had a massive injury crisis last lap of the season which ended it
 
I think as a player he reached a world class level, but never showed in consistently due to our team going from one disaster to another. And then the last few years his body broke down. I think he was rarely used properly, constantly mis-profiled and in general didn't suit the types of teams we had.

I think he would've done best in a midfield 3 in a Zidane type role. Not a pure 10, but definitely an advanced playmaker in a midfield 3. He wasn't a deep playmaker naturally, he always played as if that was too simple for him and over complicated things, took too many touches, tried too many spectacular passes there or tried to carry too much.

His best bit of form came when Ole actually used him in a midfield 3 with a couple of workers around him so he had more of a free role. But then we got Bruno and shoved Pogba deeper, similar to now getting Cunha and pushing Bruno deeper. This club seems to think the transition from attacking mid to a deeper playmaker is easy ..
 
The injuries at the end took their toll on him. Yet it’s striking how a £135m player can go under the radar for doing a few fancy touches and offering little impact in a title-winning side (even if it’s still early). By contrast, this was a man who consistently stood up when our team fell short of where it should have been, given the investment. I’d say his time here is hugely underrated, especially considering the double standards he faced compared with other big-money signings at other clubs — Jack Grealish to name another.
 
We never actually built a team to match his level. Our defense wasn't good enough apart from De Gea and our front players were all mostly inconsistent. A Pogba/Herrera/Matic midfield backed up by some top notch defenders and some actual senior talent in attack and we would have come much closer to winning something major during his time.

Of course you have to criticize his attitude at times and especially later on he was constantly out with injuries. You could see though, that the teams performance levels often ebbed and flowed with Pogba's form and some of our best runs under Mourinho and Ole came, when he was fully fit and motivated. His time at United should probably just be seen as a massive missed opportunity, which was in part on the player but also largely on the club.
 
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