Paul Pogba

Mainoldo

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Mctominay is a completely different player to Pogba.
4-2-3-1. So when we sell Pogba where does VBD play? He’s not playing on the left where Pogba has been playing lately and he’s not playing in the two ahead of McTominay hence my point.
 

CLK_FPC

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You can dislike Pogba and rate him as a player, some of the comments in here are insane :lol:
Bruno is more effective 100% but is NOWHERE near as talented as Pogba, neither is Rashford
 

Herschel Krustofsky

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Always bemused by the Pogba debate.

His potential is arguably great, his impact for us is minimal (in our own half its barely existent).

When does impact outweigh potential? For me the scales tipped a few years ago.
 

foolsgold

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Always bemused by the Pogba debate.

His potential is arguably great, his impact for us is minimal (in our own half its barely existent).

When does impact outweigh potential? For me the scales tipped a few years ago.
Absolutely this. For all the money we’ve spend on him and drama we’ve put up with he simply hasn’t delivered to the level he needed to consistently.

The big, dominant performances against the top teams just aren’t there. Neither are the goals and assists. 34 goals in almost 5 years and 13 of them were penalties.
 

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Pogba is a luxury player. He only shines in teams full of superstars such as Juventus and France.
 

croadyman

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Pogba is a luxury player. He only shines in teams full of superstars such as Juventus and France.
Yeah Grealish may not have his top level but feel he would be much more consistent and give us another creative threat for the opposition to worry about if they shut down Bruno
 

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Pogba is one of the most talented players in the world comfortably, when he's at it, he's a ridiculous person to watch play football, a total joy. I don't know how anyone can dispute that, the obvious thing is and I don't need to say it really, he's completely inconsistent and you literally can never be sure which Pogba you're going to get from game to game, which has been one of the issues that has plagued his return.
 

CLK_FPC

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Pogba is one of the most talented players in the world comfortably, when he's at it, he's a ridiculous person to watch play football, a total joy. I don't know how anyone can dispute that, the obvious thing is and I don't need to say it really, he's completely inconsistent and you literally can never be sure which Pogba you're going to get from game to game, which has been one of the issues that has plagued his return.
I agree also think the fact he doesn't actually want to be here doesn't help.

That first season he should have had at least 20 assists and hit the woodwork 100 times as well
 

Classical Mechanic

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I agree also think the fact he doesn't actually want to be here doesn't help.

That first season he should have had at least 20 assists and hit the woodwork 100 times as well
You criticise people for underrating him but then come out with utter hyperbolic nonsense the other way yourself. His expected assists in his first season were 5.59. It was his best season in that regard for United but not by much, 4.59, 5.19 & 3.06 in the seasons that followed.

At least I can agree that he looked a different player in his first season with lots more skill and flair on show.
 

CLK_FPC

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You criticise people for underrating him but then come out with utter hyperbolic nonsense the other way yourself. His expected assists in his first season were 5.59. It was his best season in that regard for United but not by much, 4.59, 5.19 & 3.06 in the seasons that followed.

At least I can agree that he looked a different player in his first season with lots more skill and flair on show.
"Utter hyperbolic nonsense"
This is what happens when you look at XG stats instead of watching the actual game.

Are you telling me from the vid in that tweet had it not been for poor finishing he wouldn't have had more than the 5 assists registered?

Dunno what it is about Pogba that has people foaming at the mouth like this :confused:
 

Gordon S

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"Utter hyperbolic nonsense"
This is what happens when you look at XG stats instead of watching the actual game.

Are you telling me from the vid in that tweet had it not been for poor finishing he wouldn't have had more than the 5 assists registered?

Dunno what it is about Pogba that has people foaming at the mouth like this :confused:
My guess would be Raiola.
Lots of people seems to think everything Raiola says is a masterplan from Pogba. Raiola doesn´t strike me as person who ask permission for every comment he makes. Pogba has no doubt been asking Raiola to look for a new club but i seriously doubt he intends to cause a stir in our club in the process. Wouldn`t be surprised if Raiola gets off on it however. There´s that, and we will also always need a scapegoat for our inability to dominate on the big stage.


Anyhow, how many "rant at pogba" threads do we need?
 

Classical Mechanic

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"Utter hyperbolic nonsense"
This is what happens when you look at XG stats instead of watching the actual game.

Are you telling me from the vid in that tweet had it not been for poor finishing he wouldn't have had more than the 5 assists registered?

Dunno what it is about Pogba that has people foaming at the mouth like this :confused:
There is perhaps a single big chance in that whole video. The rest are incredibly difficult chances to take as they involve the ball travelling long distances whilst dropping over the shoulder of the attacking player. Controlling a ball that is coming over your shoulder is one of the hardest things to do in ball sports, for obvious reason.

There isn't a creative player in the league that doesn't have numerous chances they create missed. xG indicates how 'big' those chances actually were.

The whole 'robbed of assists' videos are just click bait aimed at fanboys.

Looking at his xG numbers for that season it would be reasonable to expect 2 - 4 more. 20 assists is just silly.

That's why xG is actually a useful tool. It removes bias and hyperbole and gives a dispassionate and objective grading of a situation.
 

Tallis

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As usual I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. It’s easy to forget that Pogba was our best outfield player for the first two seasons he was here. I think at one point, his minutes per assist was better than KDB. It’s also true that the last 2.5 seasons he has mostly been very poor to average, excluding some brief phases (he was very good in the 10-15 game period when Ole first came in and he was good but not great after the restart last season). In any event - I think he will move in the summer. If he can win us some games, that’s in his best interest as ours.

The argument that he is more talented than Bruno - not sure what’s the utility of that argument. Some may feel that Ravel Morrison is more talented than Rashford, but who cares?
 

RashyForPM

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You can dislike Pogba and rate him as a player, some of the comments in here are insane :lol:
Bruno is more effective 100% but is NOWHERE near as talented as Pogba, neither is Rashford
I wouldn’t say nowhere near, just because he doesn’t do stupid flicks on the halfway line leading to opposition goals. It’s not as if he can’t pull off the Hollywood balls that Pogba sporadically does as well. See the Rashford goal against Wolves. Still, despite him being slightly less talented than Pogba, he is extremely productive and hardworking, making him by far the better player atm. He doesn’t cause trouble off-the-field too. These things count - any top professional would say so. Just ask the likes of Keane and the class of 92.
 

RashyForPM

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As usual I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. It’s easy to forget that Pogba was our best outfield player for the first two seasons he was here. I think at one point, his minutes per assist was better than KDB. It’s also true that the last 2.5 seasons he has mostly been very poor to average, excluding some brief phases (he was very good in the 10-15 game period when Ole first came in and he was good but not great after the restart last season). In any event - I think he will move in the summer. If he can win us some games, that’s in his best interest as ours.

The argument that he is more talented than Bruno - not sure what’s the utility of that argument. Some may feel that Ravel Morrison is more talented than Rashford, but who cares?
He probably was in 2018-19, but I personally wouldn’t put him ahead of Zlatan for 2016-17.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I wouldn’t say nowhere near, just because he doesn’t do stupid flicks on the halfway line leading to opposition goals. It’s not as if he can’t pull off the Hollywood balls that Pogba sporadically does as well. See the Rashford goal against Wolves. Still, despite him being slightly less talented than Pogba, he is extremely productive and hardworking, making him by far the better player atm. He doesn’t cause trouble off-the-field too. These things count - any top professional would say so. Just ask the likes of Keane and the class of 92.
Broadly agree with this perspective. Claiming that Pogba is miles more talented than Bruno is again myopic nonsense. Pogba has more flair and better long passing but those are only a small part of what makes a great player. In fact, in the modern game the qualities that Bruno has are increasingly more important. The game is becoming quicker and more physical (relating to high intensity short sprints) all the time.

Admittedly I did enjoy Pogba in his first season here, some of his passing and general style was really great.
 

Hugh Jass

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I wouldn’t say nowhere near, just because he doesn’t do stupid flicks on the halfway line leading to opposition goals. It’s not as if he can’t pull off the Hollywood balls that Pogba sporadically does as well. See the Rashford goal against Wolves. Still, despite him being slightly less talented than Pogba, he is extremely productive and hardworking, making him by far the better player atm. He doesn’t cause trouble off-the-field too. These things count - any top professional would say so. Just ask the likes of Keane and the class of 92.
Agreed.
 

dal

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Yeah Grealish may not have his top level but feel he would be much more consistent and give us another creative threat for the opposition to worry about if they shut down Bruno
Grealish has Pogbas top level, for me top level means you sustain it for at least half a season.

Bruno has Pogbas top level is not even debatable, yes Pogba has better technique but if you can’t mash it all together for a sustained number of games then there’s no point in debating.
 

CLK_FPC

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There is perhaps a single big chance in that whole video. The rest are incredibly difficult chances to take as they involve the ball travelling long distances whilst dropping over the shoulder of the attacking player. Controlling a ball that is coming over your shoulder is one of the hardest things to do in ball sports, for obvious reason.

There isn't a creative player in the league that doesn't have numerous chances they create missed. xG indicates how 'big' those chances actually were.

The whole 'robbed of assists' videos are just click bait aimed at fanboys.

Looking at his xG numbers for that season it would be reasonable to expect 2 - 4 more. 20 assists is just silly.

That's why xG is actually a useful tool. It removes bias and hyperbole and gives a dispassionate and objective grading of a situation.
Again looking at stats and not the actual games. Ok brother you're right :)
 

CLK_FPC

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I wouldn’t say nowhere near, just because he doesn’t do stupid flicks on the halfway line leading to opposition goals. It’s not as if he can’t pull off the Hollywood balls that Pogba sporadically does as well. See the Rashford goal against Wolves. Still, despite him being slightly less talented than Pogba, he is extremely productive and hardworking, making him by far the better player atm. He doesn’t cause trouble off-the-field too. These things count - any top professional would say so. Just ask the likes of Keane and the class of 92.
I don't think the things you're naming ie hardworking and not causing trouble equate to talent. Jordan Henderson for example is a grafter but for me isn't particularly talented.

Bruno is more productive than De Bruyne too for example but I would say KDB is superior to him as well.
I think nowhere is quite extreme but Pogba is a few levels above him.
 

m1tch

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Linked with PSG I see, Poch could get a future managerial career with us off to a great start if he convinces their board to place a bid.

Instant hero if he convinces them to pay what we paid for him, but I guess we'll end up taking around £60m and will be relatively happy.
 

Footyislife

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It's obvious that Pogba thrives in a free role in the midfield as a playmaker. But Bruno is undoubtedly our key playmaker.

If so, do we need two playmakers in our midfield? 3/6 positions are locked, with Martial (or Cavani) Rashford, and Bruno. We need 2 midfielders to play behind Bruno since we don't have a world class DM & Pogba's workrate/discipline is too poor to play as a B2B/DM.

So it comes down to whether you'd prefer Greenwood/Sancho/Grealish as your creative wide player vs. Pogba. Considering Pogba's high wages (vs. goals/assists contribution), injury record, & agent, I would be inclined to pursue other options who could probably double Pogba's goal/assist output for 70% of his wages.

Sell for £60m + £20m clauses. And use that to buy Grealish/Sancho to upgrade the team.
 

CLK_FPC

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It's obvious that Pogba thrives in a free role in the midfield as a playmaker. But Bruno is undoubtedly our key playmaker.

If so, do we need two playmakers in our midfield? 3/6 positions are locked, with Martial (or Cavani) Rashford, and Bruno. We need 2 midfielders to play behind Bruno since we don't have a world class DM & Pogba's workrate/discipline is too poor to play as a B2B/DM.

So it comes down to whether you'd prefer Greenwood/Sancho/Grealish as your creative wide player vs. Pogba. Considering Pogba's high wages (vs. goals/assists contribution), injury record, & agent, I would be inclined to pursue other options who could probably double Pogba's goal/assist output for 70% of his wages.

Sell for £60m + £20m clauses. And use that to buy Grealish/Sancho to upgrade the team.
Think this is the best we can hope for
 

RashyForPM

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I don't think the things you're naming ie hardworking and not causing trouble equate to talent. Jordan Henderson for example is a grafter but for me isn't particularly talented.

Bruno is more productive than De Bruyne too for example but I would say KDB is superior to him as well.
I think nowhere is quite extreme but Pogba is a few levels above him.
Not talented, but imo, it makes Bruno a far more complete package and therefore a better player.
 

croadyman

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It's obvious that Pogba thrives in a free role in the midfield as a playmaker. But Bruno is undoubtedly our key playmaker.

If so, do we need two playmakers in our midfield? 3/6 positions are locked, with Martial (or Cavani) Rashford, and Bruno. We need 2 midfielders to play behind Bruno since we don't have a world class DM & Pogba's workrate/discipline is too poor to play as a B2B/DM.

So it comes down to whether you'd prefer Greenwood/Sancho/Grealish as your creative wide player vs. Pogba. Considering Pogba's high wages (vs. goals/assists contribution), injury record, & agent, I would be inclined to pursue other options who could probably double Pogba's goal/assist output for 70% of his wages.

Sell for £60m + £20m clauses. And use that to buy Grealish/Sancho to upgrade the team.
Yeah definitely need to sell Pogba in the summer and bring in one of those two, yes I know there are more urgent needs at CDM or CB but would still expect us to bring in someone who would replace Paul's attacking output otherwise will be a massive creativity hole outside of Bruno.
 

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I’m sorry but this is blind hate. Question his attitude & commitment by all means; but he’s the most talented footballer we have at the club, by some distance too.
I'm confused by this point every time I read it. "The most talented player" is an unquantifiable buzz statement. Similar to a statement like the 'most graceful player', all this does is term something that is obstruction the truth of the matter that he's been below average to slightly above average in his time at United. Something that actually is quantifiable.

I've always found it to be really weird, like the "he did a long pass" arguments as if most players who are professionals earning 5 figures per week can't hit a 40-45 yard pass at the same 1 in 5 accuracy as Pogba.

Having said that, replace Matic with a proper world class DM and he can stay for all I care, if we do that and he leaves we're okay with bringing in another functional midfielder and having VdB be the main guy and moving on. Whichever doesn't bother me.
 

croadyman

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I'm confused by this point every time I read it. "The most talented player" is an unquantifiable buzz statement. Similar to a statement like the 'most graceful player', all this does is term something that is obstruction the truth of the matter that he's been below average to slightly above average in his time at United. Something that actually is quantifiable.

I've always found it to be really weird, like the "he did a long pass" arguments as if most players who are professionals earning 5 figures per week can't hit a 40-45 yard pass at the same 1 in 5 accuracy as Pogba.

Having said that, replace Matic with a proper world class DM and he can stay for all I care, if we do that and he leaves we're okay with bringing in another functional midfielder and having VdB be the main guy and moving on. Whichever doesn't bother me.
Still think we will explore the Sancho/Grealish route as a priority if Pogba leaves ahead of signing a proper DM, whether we will have the funds to look at a CB or CDM after that remains to be seen because will be on a tight COVID hit budget even though both are really needed.
 

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Always bemused by the Pogba debate.

His potential is arguably great, his impact for us is minimal (in our own half its barely existent).

When does impact outweigh potential? For me the scales tipped a few years ago.
Agree with this in all counts

Get 50m for him and go and get Grealish.
 

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This forum will be unbearable once Pogba leaves and beats the shit out of some small club in Italy.
Even now some people think he's on Bruno level. Madness, and it's only the beginning.
 

croadyman

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This forum will be unbearable once Pogba leaves and beats the shit out of some small club in Italy.
Even now some people think he's on Bruno level. Madness, and it's only the beginning.
Provided we get Grealish/Sancho won't be worried what he's doing in Italy
 

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Many get far too caught up in all that. He is one of our better performers the last few weeks and months. So play him. If he wants to leave sell him in the summer and get someone in that can fill his shoes. If he decides to stay. Fine, play him.
 

K Stand Knut

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Yeah definitely need to sell Pogba in the summer and bring in one of those two, yes I know there are more urgent needs at CDM or CB but would still expect us to bring in someone who would replace Paul's attacking output otherwise will be a massive creativity hole outside of Bruno.
His what now???

There is literally nothing to replace.

I’m not saying go all out for Grealish but I’d happily bet he’d beat Paul’s attacking output before Christmas if we sign him in the summer
 

croadyman

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His what now???

There is literally nothing to replace.

I’m not saying go all out for Grealish but I’d happily bet he’d beat Paul’s attacking output before Christmas if we sign him in the summer
I meant that season when he got all those assists
 

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Provided we get Grealish/Sancho won't be worried what he's doing in Italy
Dip in form for Bruno and a hell will be raised on here, mark my words. People like living their fantasies, not seeing how far is Pogba typical performance level from his actual potential (which is great).

And as I doubt we'll get Grealish, the moaning will be loud.