Paul Scholes: Give Ole Until The End Of The Season

Flytan

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If the next 9 games go as badly then he will be sacked and rightly so - thread says end of the season but obviously there are limits for all fans

Baring back to back losses this week, he's probably got until December to sort it out and thats a reasonable about of time
Out of curiosity what does "sort it out" even mean? And when can we start judging him the same as other managers, by his trophies?
 

Trequarista10

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Scholes is a terrible pundit. I don't even mind his opinion as such, its just the lack of substance to the opinion. He's bought players. Won a couple games. It's just meaningless waffle. Not just this instance but every opinion he has. I don't even get why he does punditry, he doesn't seem to enjoy it or bother putting any effort in.
 

Amir

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We were top of the league at the turn of this year so yes the team under Ole has shown title winning form for half a season at least
Nope. We had title winning results for a while, when Liverpool dropped away and City were finding themselves, so standards were lower than they've been in recent years. Even then, we never produced title winning football.
 

spiriticon

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He'll get to the end of the year because the odds of the Glazers sacking him a couple of months into a 3 yr contract is pretty damn low
 

Rood

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Out of curiosity what does "sort it out" even mean? And when can we start judging him the same as other managers, by his trophies?
End of the season, just like the thread title says !
 

eire-red

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Zidane and Conte for sure. They may not be the perfect fit, but unfortunately there's no obvious option available, like a Pep or Klopp who seem like guaranteed success stories.

What I do feel is that leaving Ole in charge is just self destruction. Out of all the options available to us, keeping him is the least appealing to me right now.

I can't take the chirpy underdog story that he spins anymore, after all we've spent.
 

Rood

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Nope. We had title winning results for a while, when Liverpool dropped away and City were finding themselves, so standards were lower than they've been in recent years. Even then, we never produced title winning football.
I dont know what 'title winning football' is - there are no trophies in football for style, points make prizes and whether you want to accept it or not, yes we did show title winning form for a significant part of last season.
 

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He'll get to the end of the year because the odds of the Glazers sacking him a couple of months into a 3 yr contract is pretty damn low
Didn't stop them getting Mourinho out. He will be done if he loses the next two matches.
 

FriedClams

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Also on the overlap, scholes said Bruce should get a chance at Newcastle, and deserves his payoff if he gets sacked simply because he’s been a scapegoat under Mike Ashley. Honestly, I have no problem with someone being nice to their mates, I would like my own friends to be the same way for me. I think it’s more on the broadcasters for giving him airtime when discussing friends/former teammates, because it’s so blatantly biased, but maybe they want that opinion because they know it’ll generate discussion and debate?
 

Denis79

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The fact that he turned it around last season and we have a better squad now is enough for me
He/Bruno saved the season and did enough to keep his job but not much more than that. This season expectations are much higher and rightly so, just look at our squad.

Ole has done a fantastic rebuild but the football just isn't there, not even with the world-class players he has now. Just finishing top 4 with this squad would not be acceptable to many, he needs to stay in the PL race to the end and on top of that win a minor cup for it to be considered an ok season. We're already out of one cup, we've lost half of our games already and this was our "easy" part of the season when looking at the fixtures.

I really wanted him to be a success and I was really rooting for him but it's obvious he doesn't have the experience for the highest level of football. The incredible inconsistency points to that the quality and magic of his players win the matches and not his management. I hope he turns this around but I highly doubt it.
 
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Enigma_87

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Out of curiosity what does "sort it out" even mean? And when can we start judging him the same as other managers, by his trophies?
Apparently you create a mess yourself, then you sort it out and you are a hero in ones eyes.

Needs time to "sort out" our game being here 3.5 years and 500m later.
 

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If the next 9 games go as badly then he will be sacked and rightly so - thread says end of the season but obviously there are limits for all fans

Baring back to back losses this week, he's probably got until December to sort it out and thats a reasonable about of time
He'll be here until top 4 is no longer possible, which likely means at least April. He won't be going in December unless there is a total collapse (seven or eight defeats in a row, staring down the barrel of a relegation scrap, kind of collapse - that's pretty unlikely). If we scrape 4th, he'll be back for another season.
 
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Siezard

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Clubs usually struggle when they made major changes to their first 11. Here, we have 3 major disruptions.

But things will get better especially with CR7 around.
 

izec

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He'll be here until top 4 is no longer possible, which likely means at least April. He won't be going in December unless there is a total collapse (seven or eight defeats in a row, starring down the barrel of a relegation scrap, kind of collapse - that's pretty unlikely). If we scrape 4th, he'll be back for another season.
Pretty much the way i see it as well.
 

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We'll always be a year or two behind with this approach. It's cut throat at the top but we operate via romanticism of 30 years ago. A lack of ruthlessness runs through the club, from the owners right down to the players. Generous new contracts, players running them down, automatic starters, players getting regular minutes who couldn't give a feck, inexperienced appointments, explayers everywhere - what's more United these days than the extra few months that every manager earns?
 
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Enigma_87

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We were top of the league at the turn of this year so yes the team under Ole has shown title winning form for half a season at least
We were top for a week(GW18). City had a game in hand (or two) most of the time.

Spurs were top 4 weeks GW9-GW12 and more than us.

Up until GW29 we were 1 point apart with Leicester, whilst City were in one horse race drifting between 10-15 points alone on top.

That's not a title winning form.
 

DRJosh

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It wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility for Ole to turn this around but it is a very unlikely scenario.

The complete lack of foundation in terms of pressing, defensive structure without possession etc cannot be instilled in a matter of weeks. It needs a complete revamp in approach which only a new manager can afford.
 

lefty_jakobz

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Ive given up any hope of us winning or even mounting a challenge in the league or making any in roads in Europe or in any of the cups with him in charge. We certainly wont lift a major trophy with Ole in.

I was always an Ole never in guy but thought id try give him a chance, but every corner turned proved to be another false dawn with a big set back right after, so for me he has to go and the sooner the better, but he wont because the Glazers wont sack him until the end of the season at the earliest.

Liverpool this weekend followed by City two weeks later, 2 losses to them and we fall possibly 10/11 points behind the leaders assuming we beat Spurs between those games.
 

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We were top for a week(GW18). City had a game in hand (or two) most of the time.

Spurs were top 4 weeks GW9-GW12 and more than us.

Up until GW29 we were 1 point apart with Leicester, whilst City were in one horse race drifting between 10-15 points alone on top.

That's not a title winning form.
Anything before Xmas is meaningless, even Everton and Southampton were top of the league

Like I said, Ole showed title winning form for half a season and even coming second was outperforming expectations
 

Bastian

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Anything before Xmas is meaningless, even Everton and Southampton were top of the league

Like I said, Ole showed title winning form for half a season and even coming second was outperforming expectations
When Mourinho finished 2nd, did he outperform expectations? I think the same is true for both, neither had us playing good football, while at least Mourinho had a plan.
 

sullydnl

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We were top of the league at the turn of this year so yes the team under Ole has shown title winning form for half a season at least
The actual form in terms of our level of performances was never at title-winning level last season, even in the first half. The way we were playing as a team (including repeatedly falling behind and having to scrape results the hardest possible way while also bombing out of the CL group stages) screamed that the results we were returning were unsustainable and so they proved to be.

Or if you prefer it in statistical terms, we were approx. 12th in the league for xG conceded after the first 19 games. That's unsustainably bad for a supposedly title-challenging side.

Once City started restricting opponents to barely any chances it was very evident they were performing at a level beyond what we were capable of, even if it took the league table a while longer to reflect that.
 

Enigma_87

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Anything before Xmas is meaningless, even Everton and Southampton were top of the league

Like I said, Ole showed title winning form for half a season and even coming second was outperforming expectations
Hence my point.

Being at top in beginning of January(or middle) is not more meaningful that being top early December. Especially when you drifted 10+ points off the top in the last 3 months of the race.

In our "title winning" form where we made it to the top we had a cushion of playing against Wolves (90+ mins winner), while being pretty average in the first. Then we were pretty average against Villa, Burnley and Fulham to win with individual brilliance (from Pogba) and then we went on to a "run" of winning 3 games out of 10.
 

croadyman

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Anything before Xmas is meaningless, even Everton and Southampton were top of the league

Like I said, Ole showed title winning form for half a season and even coming second was outperforming expectations
I can see a scenario where you are the only person still believing in him on that podcast, don't think for a second that the scousers haven't learnt lessons from playing us last season and same with City in early November. Believe me we will be kicking ourselves if we dither and let Ten Haag go to Barca when he leaves Ajax
 

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Scholes (also Neville and Ferdinand) can really be harsh in their assessments of some players. But don’t they realize the most important component of the team is the manager? Without a good manager it’s very easy to lose a season before it’s even started. That’s what we are seeing play out.
 

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He/Bruno saved the season and did enough to keep his job but not much more than that. This season expectations are much higher and rightly so, just look at our squad.

Ole has done a fantastic rebuild but the football just isn't there, not even with the world-class players he has now. Just finishing top 4 with this squad would not be acceptable to many, he needs to stay in the PL race to the end and on top of that win a minor cup for it to be considered an ok season. We're already out of one cup, we've lost half of our games already and this was our "easy" part of the season when looking at the fixtures.

I really wanted him to be a success and I was really rooting for him but it's obvious he doesn't have the experience for the highest level of football. The incredible inconsistency points to that the quality and magic of his players win the matches and not his management. I hope he turns this around but I highly doubt it.
Can't argue with much of that but he did turn it around last season and there is still plenty of life left this year

But I agree that he won't get as much patience this season as last so things need to change ASAP, starting this week


He'll be here until top 4 is no longer possible, which likely means at least April. He won't be going in December unless there is a total collapse (seven or eight defeats in a row, staring down the barrel of a relegation scrap, kind of collapse - that's pretty unlikely). If we scrape 4th, he'll be back for another season.
I'm not so sure that just top4 will be enough this season, unless it came with a deep CL run at least

It won't be enough for me anyway - need to see constant progress

That didn't answer my first, more relevant question


Feel free to listen here for my more detailed opinion

 

croadyman

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Scholes (also Neville and Ferdinand) can really be harsh in their assessments of some players. But don’t they realize the most important component of the team is the manager? Without a good manager it’s very easy to lose a season before it’s even started. That’s what we are seeing play out.
They know he is massively at fault deep down but can't dare say it in public
 

RedDevil@84

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While personally I would like to give Ole time till end of season, it simply doesn't seem plausible. Not because of results. But because of performances. The performances are looking more and more confused. Individual moments of brilliance are still out there. But that is not going to be enough. Most teams have figured us out. Even the relegation ones. Rodgers said yesterday that he made plans because he knew United won't do anything from the middle. It is becoming so blatant that managers are talking about in public. Because they are sure we can't do anything. Unless there is an awesome plan that Ole has kept under wraps, things are looking ominous. First the performances drop, then cracks appear and then players distance themselves from manager and just like that he will be gone.
 

MichaelRed

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Scholes told The Overlap : "I think he deserves a chance. If you think about the last three or four years about where United had been, it has been shocking, hasn't it? It had not been great to watch before he came.​
"It has took him two or three years to build a squad where we think the pieces are there to the puzzle, it's just getting them in that right organisation.​
"There was a lot of excitement at the start of the season after four or five games; they beat Newcastle (4-1) and beat Leeds (5-1) and the last two games have been disappointing.​
"But I think he deserves a chance. He has built a squad where he should be given a year, at least this season, to show that he can manage that and win trophies."​


Im with Scholes - Ole has done more than enough in the last 2 seasons to get a chance to turn around this run of poor form.
After all we started last season even worse and he proved many of the doubters wrong by getting 2nd place in the end.

Of course, if we keep losing matches then he wont last the year and neither should he, but its early days this season. Ole has pulled out big results when he needed them the most, and a win next weekend puts us 1 point behind Liverpool, so its far from the lost cause that many are making out.
More than enough? How? He has done almost no good work & any good work he has done he either has aleady undone or is in the process of undoing. He has taken us from 81 points to 74 points with a 400m spend? Wow, amazing work.
 

croadyman

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While personally I would like to give Ole time till end of season, it simply doesn't seem plausible. Not because of results. But because of performances. The performances are looking more and more confused. Individual moments of brilliance are still out there. But that is not going to be enough. Most teams have figured us out. Even the relegation ones. Rodgers said yesterday that he made plans because he knew United won't do anything from the middle. It is becoming so blatant that managers are talking about in public. Because they are sure we can't do anything. Unless there is an awesome plan that Ole has kept under wraps, things are looking ominous. First the performances drop, then cracks appear and then players distance themselves from manager and just like that he will be gone.
Ouch that should mean red flags everywhere but with our sentimental and soft board it don't mean shit
 

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When Mourinho finished 2nd, did he outperform expectations? I think the same is true for both, neither had us playing good football, while at least Mourinho had a plan.
He did but not as much as Ole because expectations were high that season


The actual form in terms of our level of performances was never at title-winning level last season, even in the first half. The way we were playing as a team (including repeatedly falling behind and having to scrape results the hardest possible way while also bombing out of the CL group stages) screamed that the results we were returning were unsustainable and so they proved to be.

Or if you prefer it in statistical terms, we were approx. 12th in the league for xG conceded after the first 19 games. That's unsustainably bad for a supposedly title-challenging side.

Once City started restricting opponents to barely any chances it was very evident they were performing at a level beyond what we were capable of, even if it took the league table a while longer to reflect that.
I watched Fergie teams win several titles by coming from behind often

And the start of last season was horrendous - best 20 game spell (half a season or so) will have been much better.

I can see a scenario where you are the only person still believing in him on that podcast, don't think for a second that the scousers haven't learnt lessons from playing us last season and same with City in early November. Believe me we will be kicking ourselves if we dither and let Ten Haag go to Barca when he leaves Ajax
In Ole We Trust !
 

Jackal981

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Didn't stop them getting Mourinho out. He will be done if he loses the next two matches.
This. Realistically speaking if he loses the next two he will be out in the next morning. There will be a riot if he is not sacked and the Glazers are not that stupid imo
 

croadyman

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He did but not as much as Ole because expectations were high that season




I watched Fergie teams win several titles by coming from behind often

And the start of last season was horrendous - best 20 game spell (half a season or so) will have been much better.



In Ole We Trust !
Not a chance I trust him one little bit
 

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He did but not as much as Ole because expectations were high that season
But Ole inherited that same squad, right? With only Ander opting to leave. Why wouldn't there have been the same expectation that he'd get us +80 points?
 

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This is the most you'll get from scholes and neville. They're his mates ffs, would any of us throw our mate under the bus on live tv ?

That his mates are even considering he should be sacked is pretty damning in itself.
 

MichaelRed

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But Ole inherited that same squad, right? With only Ander opting to leave. Why wouldn't there have been the same expectation that he'd get us +80 points?
The reason the expectations were lower for Ole, despite having the same squad as Mourinho & getting the signings in Mourinho was refused such as Maguire, is because Ole is a shit manager and so expectations were lowered for him. It's obvious for all to see but people still live in denial.
 

Foxbatt

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We were top of the league at the turn of this year so yes the team under Ole has shown title winning form for half a season at least
And then messed up all on our own by losing against the bottom side. That is not title winning form. It was downhill from there.