Paul Scholes the pundit

RedDevil@84

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Spouting rubbish again

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nchester-United-midfielder-Ander-Herrera.html

As the article these were Herreras stats.

Attempted Passes: 48
Successful Passes: 44
Pass Completion: 92%
Key Passes: 3
Assists: 1
Scholes can sometimes be so irritating with stuff like these. Herrera does many things right. Picking on 1 or 2 mistakes, and then question player's quality to play for United is nasty.
If that is the case, he should question Pogba and say Pogba is not of United quality, Pogba makes lot of mistakes and mispasses.
 

Adam-Utd

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He says it is impossible to fall out with Valencia, but Jose still managed it:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...es-says-Mourinho-deliberately-got-sacked.html
Glad somebody has said it.

A few of us here have already stated it in the past. It was clear Jose was doing it on purpose. I fail to believe somebody in his position could do so poorly, and act so poorly if it wasn't on purpose.

He did well until the exact moment he signed the new deal last Jan, then it all went massively downhill. He was mentally out the moment that happened.

Woodward gave him way more time than he deserved.
 

Samid

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Getting slaughtered for this online and rightly so. We love taking the piss out of the ex-dippers pundits who constantly talk bollocks but our ex-players aren't much better.
 

JPRouve

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Getting slaughtered for this online and rightly so. We love taking the piss out of the ex-dippers pundits who constantly talk bollocks but our ex-players aren't much better.
To be fair he wasn't the right man for Oldham, so he has a point.
 

Buchan

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I think Scholes talks bollocks as much as the next man but come on, who the feck wears a suit on the sideline in League 2?!

Ridiculous comparison to ridicule him on.
 

dev1l

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Getting slaughtered for this online and rightly so. We love taking the piss out of the ex-dippers pundits who constantly talk bollocks but our ex-players aren't much better.
They re paid to say something stupid :)

I mean,how else would you explain Merson longetivity as a pundit? :)
 

Steve Bruce

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People on here don't like scholes punditry because he's telling us things that we don't want to hear but are accurate.
 

el3mel

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Of all the things he can criticize a manager for, this is how he determines if the manager is going to make it or not? Another proof on how a terrible pundit he's. Absolute legend as a player, but a terrible pundit.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Getting slaughtered for this online and rightly so. We love taking the piss out of the ex-dippers pundits who constantly talk bollocks but our ex-players aren't much better.
:lol: Loves Scholes but thats funny
 

Andycoleno9

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People on here don't like scholes punditry because he's telling us things that we don't want to hear but are accurate.
You see, he is in my top5 all time favourite United players but i don't like him as a pundit because( just like Neville) he is a huge hypocrite. They both one day say one thing and then other day something completely different and opposite
 

mu4c_20le

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Getting slaughtered for this online and rightly so. We love taking the piss out of the ex-dippers pundits who constantly talk bollocks but our ex-players aren't much better.
Because Oldham are the same stature as Arsenal.
 

mu4c_20le

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I'm sure suits are prohibited at Oldham.

More importantly, who uses clothing are a barometer for judging managers?
I thought it was a fair comment, Freddie may have wanted to appear less formal and more 'down with the lads', but he looked like a science teacher.
 

11101

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I'm sure suits are prohibited at Oldham.

More importantly, who uses clothing are a barometer for judging managers?
Someone that has only ever known Ferguson and thinks that's the only way to skin a cat.
 

Steve Bruce

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I was referring to the comment about Ljunberg dress "code".
my post isn't aimed at any one individual, it was aimed at the collective.

I think it's very sad that all this forum does at the moment, is criticise legends of the club because they don't like what they hear. As for being hypocrites, opinions can be changed. e.g. some think counter attacking football is the way to go, but have changed their mind in thinking that more conservative ball retaining football is the way to go. It doesn't make them hypocrites, it means they've changed their opinion.

Again this isn't a post aimed at anyone in particular. I just think it's sad that we are looking at the wrong people to blame for the ills at Old Trafford.

I personally may disagree with Scholes, Neville or whoever but I'm not going to go onto a forum and vent my hatred towards them for having a difference of opinion. Constructive criticism is needed, not general lambasting.
 

Schweigaard

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
 

Champagne Football

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.
I'm sure they were offered far bigger salaries elsewhere on multiple occasions. That's what loyalty is. Saying no to a shed load of extra cash in order to stay at the club you love. So many have passed through the doors since Fergie quit, where their only motivation to be here was because we offered the most.

Scholes didn't even have an agent which tells you even more about his character.
 

LARulz

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
I'm sure they were offered far bigger salaries elsewhere on multiple occasions. That's what loyalty is. Saying no to a shed load of extra cash in order to stay at the club you love. So many have passed through the doors since Fergie quit, where their only motivation to be here was because we offered the most.

Scholes didn't even have an agent which tells you even more about his character.
Scholes turned down Inter when they were in their pomp didn't he?
 

Chipper

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Doesn't ring true. If you have no intention to sign for someone how do you get to the stage of talking to the president?
 

FujiVice

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
This was the era where Middlesboro were paying bigger wages out to players than United. United were notoriously tight under Martin Edwards (a past it Alen Boskic was on double the money than Roy Keane was at Boro.) Hence why we missed out of every big name of the 90s. They were certainly loyal for what they could have got elsewhere.
 

Sandikan

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
Scholes was on camera in his teens saying he'd wait as long as it took to get a chance at united.

Clubs knew not to even bother trying to get him.

Just for one example.
 

Schweigaard

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Scholes was devoted to Utd for sure, and very loyal. But for him that loyalty was "easy", as Utd was both his favorite club, as well as one of the best clubs in the world. Sure he might have been paid better elsewhere, but for many top footballers that's actually not a priority, which is why you see players taking paycuts all the time when joining new clubs (like Torres did when joining us).

So yes, it's commendable that you have a favorite club, and want to spend you career there. But it's less impressive if that club also happens to be really good, and you can win plenty of trophies in it. We'll never know how loyal Scholes would've been if Man Utd was a midtable club for the entirety of his stay there.
 

Sandikan

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Scholes was devoted to Utd for sure, and very loyal. But for him that loyalty was "easy", as Utd was both his favorite club, as well as one of the best clubs in the world. Sure he might have been paid better elsewhere, but for many top footballers that's actually not a priority, which is why you see players taking paycuts all the time when joining new clubs (like Torres did when joining us).

So yes, it's commendable that you have a favorite club, and want to spend you career there. But it's less impressive if that club also happens to be really good, and you can win plenty of trophies in it. We'll never know how loyal Scholes would've been if Man Utd was a midtable club for the entirety of his stay there.
Unless you've physically seen payslips, I'd always be very cautious about believing any talk on such things as paycuts.

It's classic PR that's right up there with players having "always" supported said club.
 

Brightonian

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
So we shouldn't praise players who stay at successful clubs because that's not real loyalty, but we shouldn't praise players who stay at less successful clubs either. Seems like you're quite hard to please.
 

Harry190

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Scholes was devoted to Utd for sure, and very loyal. But for him that loyalty was "easy", as Utd was both his favorite club, as well as one of the best clubs in the world. Sure he might have been paid better elsewhere, but for many top footballers that's actually not a priority, which is why you see players taking paycuts all the time when joining new clubs (like Torres did when joining us).

So yes, it's commendable that you have a favorite club, and want to spend you career there. But it's less impressive if that club also happens to be really good, and you can win plenty of trophies in it. We'll never know how loyal Scholes would've been if Man Utd was a midtable club for the entirety of his stay there.
You think Torres took a paycut to join Liverpool? Who told you those lies and why do you believe them?
 
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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
do you consider Gerrard loyal? He was all set for Chelsea to actually go and win the league and only stayed due to Liverpool fans threatening him and his family (if I recall). He was out the door.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
What is the difference between these two scenarios?
 

thepolice123

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Scholes was devoted to Utd for sure, and very loyal. But for him that loyalty was "easy", as Utd was both his favorite club, as well as one of the best clubs in the world. Sure he might have been paid better elsewhere, but for many top footballers that's actually not a priority, which is why you see players taking paycuts all the time when joining new clubs (like Torres did when joining us).

So yes, it's commendable that you have a favorite club, and want to spend you career there. But it's less impressive if that club also happens to be really good, and you can win plenty of trophies in it. We'll never know how loyal Scholes would've been if Man Utd was a midtable club for the entirety of his stay there.
Obviously everybody will have their loyalty, or basically, virtues, tested under different set of circumstances. Some peope have it more difficult and some have it easier.

However, that doesn't mean said person does not deserve praise for displaying the qualities in less challenging circumstances. Scholes was a one-club player, something which is extremely rare in football and we should not praise him for that?

That is just like saying my wife shouldn't be praised for sticking it out with me because she does not look like Michelle Keegan and therefore have lesser options in men.
 

Schweigaard

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do you consider Gerrard loyal? He was all set for Chelsea to actually go and win the league and only stayed due to Liverpool fans threatening him and his family (if I recall). He was out the door.
I'm just happy he stayed. He clearly loves and supports Liverpool, and stayed with us despite having plenty of opportunities to go to better clubs (which means a lot considering his personal ambitions to win trophies). I know that he recieved threats, but we don't know if that's the major reason why he stayed. Personally I don't think he feared for his life, but I think the threats made him realise that he didn't want to one day come back to Liverpool and find that his own city hated him. In any case, anyone who claims to know the truth here is a liar. We don't know what went on inside his head.

---

I can't reply to everyone, but I'm saying it's hard to differentiate between contentment and loyalty. Agger could've gone to Barcelona if he wanted, at a point when we were a crappy team and he wasn't even a regular starter. He stayed, and even tattooed Y.N.W.A on his knuckles. Isn't that a huge display of loyalty? Personally, I think he just lacked ambition and was very content staying in Liverpool, enjoying life without having to face a new challenge/pressure. And I think Scholes felt the same about Man Utd, he never felt the call or the need for a new challenge.

My original point was just that Scholes (and Giggs) gets way too much praise overall for being loyal, when they never had their loyalty (properly) tested compared to many other footballers. Google "top 10 most loyal players" and you'll find them on all lists which I don't agree with. Totti is to me the epitome of loyalty, staying with his club despite knowing that he can go to other clubs and win more.

I guess I just want to problematize how football fans think of "Loyalty". I don't think it's that praiseworthy to stay with the club you love if you're the best club. I also think in most cases "loyalty" is meaningless, there's always a good, and not always that praiseworthy reason, for players being loyal. The loyalty I praise is when players abandon their personal ambitions to help their club, like I've previously mentioned with Totti.
 
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MadDogg

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My original point was just that Scholes (and Giggs) gets way too much praise overall for being loyal, when they never had their loyalty (properly) tested compared to many other footballers. Google "top 10 most loyal players" and you'll find them on all lists which I don't agree with. Totti is to me the epitome of loyalty, staying with his club despite knowing that he can go to other clubs and win more.
I tend to think Scholes would have stuck around as long as we were somewhat near the top most of the time (in the same way as Roma were normally amongst the better teams in Italy). Giggsy I'm not so sure about as I reckon he would eventually have been too ambitious and gone to one of the top Italian clubs who would have been desperate for him.
 

Sassy Colin

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It's not hard to be loyal when you play for one of the absolute best clubs in the world. I'll never understand the praise guys like Giggs and Scholes got for being loyal. It's not as if they wanted to play somewhere else, or go somewhere else to win - so their loyalty hardly got tested.

The true loyal players are the ones who stay at their clubs, even though they know they can win more elsewhere.

(and even that's not always the case. Some players, like Le Tissier, are just content to be where they are. That's also not loyalty, just lack of ambition).
Scholes was devoted to Utd for sure, and very loyal. But for him that loyalty was "easy", as Utd was both his favorite club, as well as one of the best clubs in the world. Sure he might have been paid better elsewhere, but for many top footballers that's actually not a priority, which is why you see players taking paycuts all the time when joining new clubs (like Torres did when joining us).

So yes, it's commendable that you have a favorite club, and want to spend you career there. But it's less impressive if that club also happens to be really good, and you can win plenty of trophies in it. We'll never know how loyal Scholes would've been if Man Utd was a midtable club for the entirety of his stay there.
I'm just happy he stayed. He clearly loves and supports Liverpool, and stayed with us despite having plenty of opportunities to go to better clubs (which means a lot considering his personal ambitions to win trophies). I know that he recieved threats, but we don't know if that's the major reason why he stayed. Personally I don't think he feared for his life, but I think the threats made him realise that he didn't want to one day come back to Liverpool and find that his own city hated him. In any case, anyone who claims to know the truth here is a liar. We don't know what went on inside his head.

---

I can't reply to everyone, but I'm saying it's hard to differentiate between contentment and loyalty. Agger could've gone to Barcelona if he wanted, at a point when we were a crappy team and he wasn't even a regular starter. He stayed, and even tattooed Y.N.W.A on his knuckles. Isn't that a huge display of loyalty? Personally, I think he just lacked ambition and was very content staying in Liverpool, enjoying life without having to face a new challenge/pressure. And I think Scholes felt the same about Man Utd, he never felt the call or the need for a new challenge.

My original point was just that Scholes (and Giggs) gets way too much praise overall for being loyal, when they never had their loyalty (properly) tested compared to many other footballers. Google "top 10 most loyal players" and you'll find them on all lists which I don't agree with. Totti is to me the epitome of loyalty, staying with his club despite knowing that he can go to other clubs and win more.

I guess I just want to problematize how football fans think of "Loyalty". I don't think it's that praiseworthy to stay with the club you love if you're the best club. I also think in most cases "loyalty" is meaningless, there's always a good, and not always that praiseworthy reason, for players being loyal. The loyalty I praise is when players abandon their personal ambitions to help their club, like I've previously mentioned with Totti.
Saw your first post and thought, are you being serious? Then saw you're a Liverpool fan and quickly realised that you're on a WUM.
 

Yagami

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Saw your first post and thought, are you being serious? Then saw you're a Liverpool fan and quickly realised that you're on a WUM.
Pretty tiresome these oppo fans joining up to claim we United fans shouldn't praise such and such for something.