Paulo Dybala

devilish

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I can't understand why Juve fans keep kissing his arse, he's clearly not good enough.
 

romufc

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Our best player playing in our worst ever period. Watch what happens when he’s finally removed.
I think I have seen what happens, we were worse than we are now.

And on Dybala, the further we stay away from him the better.
 

Bepi

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I can't understand why Juve fans keep kissing his arse, he's clearly not good enough.
At his peak, he is/was a beatiful footballer with a magical left foot and the rare ability to create goals from nothing, a mini-Baggio, if you like the type. That said, in this current mechanised or mechanistic era, heavily focused on stats and analytics, he is clearly not worth the salary and the long commitment he was asking to renew his contract at Juve, especially considering that we are in a cost-cutting, rebuilding phase and he is an injury prone 29yo, always missing in the last three or four years when it counted the most. He would still make a nice icing on the cake for a top team in Spain, though. Or he may just semi-retire at Inter and live together his South American mates in Milan.
 

Mainoldo

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I think I have seen what happens, we were worse than we are now.

And on Dybala, the further we stay away from him the better.
What years were these?
 

Mainoldo

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My takes? Like what? On Pogba? I think you will find I have been proven right on him ten times over by now. Just go read his player thread. Everyone is finally realising what I did 4 years ago. Having talent is only part of the formula.

How on earth you could want to replace Bruno with this guy actually is laughable. What's he's done thats been so impressive to warrant replacing Bruno whose numbers for us have been class?

Bruno hasn't just become a bad player all of a sudden. The team and club is just broken and rudderless without a clear direction.
He left Sporting and they won the league.

He’s just a stat padder who ruins possession football and bottles big games.

Your right on Pogba in that he cannot function in what this is. But he is by no means an overrated footballer.

What I would say on Pogba is his legs are probably gone now and it would be smart not to giving him a big contract.
 

Yagami

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He's finished. He's like a knackered racehorse. His legs are totally done. He can't play at full intensity for 90 minutes. If he tries he'll be injured.

Its a shame cos he's very talented but you can see why Juve are happy to see this happen. For the money he wants its a massive risk. Any team that needs dynamism, running, lots of off the ball movement up top cannot rely on Dybala. Still him in the area and provide him with tap ins and you can probably get value out of him. However, he is really railing against his own body right now. At some point he'll just have to listen and either go to a club where he can play at half the speed required in the top European leagues or retire.
It wasn't too long ago that I said, before this year, I never really rated Dybala as highly as most, but, this season, I've been very impressed despite Juventus' poor season in general. I think he's improved physically because I'm seeing him keep the ball under pressure a lot better, and his pressing and tracking back is Tevez-esque, and I didn't associate either of these qualities to him before this season.

If he wasn't so injury prone I'd be agreeing with @Mainoldo as he's twice the player Bruno is, but, unfortunately, you just can't rely on him to stay fit.
 

devilish

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At his peak, he is/was a beatiful footballer with a magical left foot and the rare ability to create goals from nothing, a mini-Baggio, if you like the type. That said, in this current mechanised or mechanistic era, heavily focused on stats and analytics, he is clearly not worth the salary and the long commitment he was asking to renew his contract at Juve, especially considering that we are in a cost-cutting, rebuilding phase and he is an injury prone 29yo, always missing in the last three or four years when it counted the most. He would still make a nice icing on the cake for a top team in Spain, though. Or he may just semi-retire at Inter and live together his South American mates in Milan.
he's as much of a mini Baggio as Welbeck is of being a mini Cantona. I had the privilege of watching Baggio since his time at Fiorentina and I assure you that he was the best mezza punta of his time. Everyone from Totti right to Del Piero and Cantona paled to his comparison. Sure the mezza punta role is dead but Baggio would have easily slotted into a false 9 role. We're talking about a forward who could score 205 goals in 420 games as a mezza punta in a league that had some of the finest defences football had ever saw. Dybala is nowhere near to that talent
 

Mainoldo

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he's as much of a mini Baggio as Welbeck is of being a mini Cantona. I had the privilege of watching Baggio since his time at Fiorentina and I assure you that he was the best mezza punta of his time. Everyone from Totti right to Del Piero and Cantona paled to his comparison. Sure the mezza punta role is dead but Baggio would have easily slotted into a false 9 role. We're talking about a forward who could score 205 goals in 420 games as a mezza punta in a league that had some of the finest defences football had ever saw. Dybala is nowhere near to that talent
Not At Manchester United it’s not and apparently ETH plays the same way.
 

bucky

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I can't understand why Juve fans keep kissing his arse, he's clearly not good enough.
Hasn't he still been one of their best players this season? Granted it's a an average one by their standards.
 

Righteous Steps

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he's as much of a mini Baggio as Welbeck is of being a mini Cantona. I had the privilege of watching Baggio since his time at Fiorentina and I assure you that he was the best mezza punta of his time. Everyone from Totti right to Del Piero and Cantona paled to his comparison. Sure the mezza punta role is dead but Baggio would have easily slotted into a false 9 role. We're talking about a forward who could score 205 goals in 420 games as a mezza punta in a league that had some of the finest defences football had ever saw. Dybala is nowhere near to that talent
Cassano was more of a ‘mini Baggio’
 

devilish

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Hasn't he still been one of their best players this season? Granted it's a an average one by their standards.
its been a decent season for him based on his usual standards (13 goals in 31 games). Last season he was painful to watch ie 5 goals in 26 games
 

Bepi

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he's as much of a mini Baggio as Welbeck is of being a mini Cantona. I had the privilege of watching Baggio since his time at Fiorentina and I assure you that he was the best mezza punta of his time. Everyone from Totti right to Del Piero and Cantona paled to his comparison. Sure the mezza punta role is dead but Baggio would have easily slotted into a false 9 role. We're talking about a forward who could score 205 goals in 420 games as a mezza punta in a league that had some of the finest defences football had ever saw. Dybala is nowhere near to that talent
You are being too harsh on Paulino, really: he is just a couple goals away from Baggio’s tall at Juve. Half the impact, yet shiny enough to be nicknamed La Joya (The Jewel) as a kid at Palermo. The damning stat against him and his requests for renewal is that he missed literally any Juve big game at crunch time in the last four years.

People easily forget how much damage two or three missing key players can do to a unit, just ask Chelsea this year… and we were always missing half our starting eleven in February and March against Ajax, Lyon, Porto, Villarreal, then crashing out ignominously. The new CFO has been tasked with closing the gates and goodbye.
 

Mainoldo

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I am not an expert of the farmer's league but I believe that ETH plays a 4-3-3 system there
Me neither :lol: but most expert videos say he plays 4231 and besides many unresearched (Could be down to personnel) opinions his fullbacks aren’t the Trent and Robertson type like a Poch would prefer.

 

Righteous Steps

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You're really breaking my heart now. What's next? Maguire the mini Jaap Stam? Butt the mini Keane? Fletcher the mini Robson? Mcnair the mini Rio?
:lol: Come on Cassano was one of the most talented Italian players of the last 30 years, had everything but a good attitude and determination to be his very best self.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I am not an expert of the farmer's league but I believe that ETH plays a 4-3-3 system there
ETH is flexible managers on formation I think. He played 4231 in 18/19. Played mix of 4231 and 433 in 19/20 & 20/21. And then this season play similar to Pep with inverted full back to allow one DM stay deep while his other midfielder to join with no 10 in advanced role.
 

Mainoldo

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Right so if we swap Dybala with Bruno we will win trophies?
No of course not. I mean where will all the assists and goals come from. The numbers don’t work.

Jokes aside my original point was that if we get ETH. I feel Dybala would be a good signing and would work a lot better with him operating that number 10 than Bruno.

He’s far more clever with a football, he’s a better striker than Bruno too and he doesn’t lose position as recklessly. As someone pointed out he’s a lot more tenancy than previous but his injury record is a concern and he might not have the lungs for the Prem. But these are all fears I’d be willing to risk if it’s ETH as manager.

Hopefully that’s abit more insightful than the earlier dumbed down responses.
 

romufc

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No of course not. I mean where will all the assists and goals come from. The numbers don’t work.

Jokes aside my original point was that if we get ETH. I feel Dybala would be a good signing and would work a lot better with him operating that number 10 than Bruno.

He’s far more clever with a football, he’s a better striker than Bruno too and he doesn’t lose position as recklessly. As someone pointed out he’s a lot more tenancy than previous but his injury record is a concern and he might not have the lungs for the Prem. But these are all fears I’d be willing to risk if it’s ETH as manager.

Hopefully that’s abit more insightful than the earlier dumbed down responses.
Fair enough.

I do get why you feel that, a player who can keep the ball better will be better off in any system. however; I feel the 10 is not something we should be looking at this summer for various reasons.

Firstly, I cannot see us getting rid of Bruno and Dybala will want crazy wages.

Secondly, we need a RW, DM, CB, RB at the very least. We can get away with Bruno for a year but not McFred, Dalot, Maguire and Elanga for another.
 

devilish

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You are being too harsh on Paulino, really: he is just a couple goals away from Baggio’s tall at Juve. Half the impact, yet shiny enough to be nicknamed La Joya (The Jewel) as a kid at Palermo. The damning stat against him and his requests for renewal is that he missed literally any Juve big game at crunch time in the last four years.

People easily forget how much damage two or three missing key players can do to a unit, just ask Chelsea this year… and we were always missing half our starting eleven in February and March against Ajax, Lyon, Porto, Villarreal, then crashing out ignominously. The new CFO has been tasked with closing the gates and goodbye.
Dybala has been at Juve for 7 years as opposed to Baggio's 5 and he hasn't reached il codino goal tally yet? Sweet. Also note that this is a significantly weaker series A then the one Baggio played in
 

devilish

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:lol: Come on Cassano was one of the most talented Italian players of the last 30 years, had everything but a good attitude and determination to be his very best self.
If talent and hype alone made players then Welbeck and Martial would have 4 balon d'or by now.
 

devilish

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ETH is flexible managers on formation I think. He played 4231 in 18/19. Played mix of 4231 and 433 in 19/20 & 20/21. And then this season play similar to Pep with inverted full back to allow one DM stay deep while his other midfielder to join with no 10 in advanced role.
I can't see anyone managing United with a 2 forward system and be successful. In fact I think that one of the many problems United has is that Bruno plays too forward
 

Mainoldo

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Fair enough.

I do get why you feel that, a player who can keep the ball better will be better off in any system. however; I feel the 10 is not something we should be looking at this summer for various reasons.

Firstly, I cannot see us getting rid of Bruno and Dybala will want crazy wages.

Secondly, we need a RW, DM, CB, RB at the very least. We can get away with Bruno for a year but not McFred, Dalot, Maguire and Elanga for another.
Yeha I agree. Realistic we are only singing 4 players. But free transfers give us the option of around 6.

Wages wise. We have Pogba, Mata, Cavani all leaving on a free. The replacements will be on far less so we have the option to use those wages on a free transfer without rocking the boat.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I can't see anyone managing United with a 2 forward system and be successful. In fact I think that one of the many problems United has is that Bruno plays too forward
I think to give you better explanation, you should read this.

 

devilish

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They don’t have the talent, Cassano did, maybe Martial actually but Cassano proved more during his short lived peak.
Talent is just a part of why a player is successful. There are other issues some of whom are within the player's power (ex professionalism, good diet, good agents etc) but others are not (bad managers, injuries etc). Baggio is seen as a success story solely due to his talent and his professionalism but when you see the greater picture its not a success story at all. First of all he was very unlucky with injuries. Secondly he was an introvert guy (more then Scholes) with huge poor self esteem issues who was forced to live for most of his life under an almost Cristiano Ronaldo like spotlight. That was bad in normal circumstances but turned terrible at a time when Italian managers saw themselves as generals on the pitch with players being mere pawns. This created a toxic situation were Baggio would seek constant support from managers who absolutely hated him simply because he was more popular then they were. Which is why a player of that calibre would spend just 2 seasons at Milan and another 2 at Bologna with a big chunk of his career being played at clubs like Fiorentina, Bologna and Brescia

So don't think for a second that Baggio hasn't had his share of demons and troubles because its really not the case. While I do acknowledge that Cassano had more talent then Martial, even with all that talent he was nowhere near to Baggio. If he wasn't such an arse then he could have become a Totti but Baggio was on an entire different level. Its a shame that Roberto didn't end up with us. Under SAF the guy could have become as big as Cristiano Ronaldo.
 

simonhch

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Talent is just a part of why a player is successful. There are other issues some of whom are within the player's power (ex professionalism, good diet, good agents etc) but others are not (bad managers, injuries etc). Baggio is seen as a success story solely due to his talent and his professionalism but when you see the greater picture its not a success story at all. First of all he was very unlucky with injuries. Secondly he was an introvert guy (more then Scholes) with huge poor self esteem issues who was forced to live for most of his life under an almost Cristiano Ronaldo like spotlight. That was bad in normal circumstances but turned terrible at a time when Italian managers saw themselves as generals on the pitch with players being mere pawns. This created a toxic situation were Baggio would seek constant support from managers who absolutely hated him simply because he was more popular then they were. Which is why a player of that calibre would spend just 2 seasons at Milan and another 2 at Bologna with a big chunk of his career being played at clubs like Fiorentina, Bologna and Brescia

So don't think for a second that Baggio hasn't had his share of demons and troubles because its really not the case. While I do acknowledge that Cassano had more talent then Martial, even with all that talent he was nowhere near to Baggio. If he wasn't such an arse then he could have become a Totti but Baggio was on an entire different level. Its a shame that Roberto didn't end up with us. Under SAF the guy could have become as big as Cristiano Ronaldo.
Definitely true Baggio was unlucky with injuries. He ruptured his ACL in his teens, in the 80s when sports science was really crap. Just a couple of points to pick up on. He was at Fiorentina from 18-23, which back then was a big team, and he was on the up. It wasn't one of the biggest teams, but it was still a big name is the world's top league and he became immensely popular there and did really well. So his time there is no reflection on his career success. It was an important stepping stone for a player who made his professional debut at 16. He then moved to Juve for 5 years. One of the top teams in the world. Where he did really, really well. At 28 he moved to Milan for 2 seasons, whom he left at 30. This is still back in the 90s. Many players decline hugely around 30 in that era. There just wasn't the sports science, or knowledge, or quality pitches, amenities etc. that players enjoy today to extend their careers. He also started early (16), much like our own dear Wayne. His remaining years at Bologna, Inter, and Brescia actually took him all the way to 37, when he was still scoring goals in Serie A. Which was pretty remarkable, all things considered.

As a top, top player he was pretty much done by 28/29. But that's not hugely surprising for that era.

I agree with your post btw. Just some additional context.
 

Righteous Steps

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Talent is just a part of why a player is successful. There are other issues some of whom are within the player's power (ex professionalism, good diet, good agents etc) but others are not (bad managers, injuries etc). Baggio is seen as a success story solely due to his talent and his professionalism but when you see the greater picture its not a success story at all. First of all he was very unlucky with injuries. Secondly he was an introvert guy (more then Scholes) with huge poor self esteem issues who was forced to live for most of his life under an almost Cristiano Ronaldo like spotlight. That was bad in normal circumstances but turned terrible at a time when Italian managers saw themselves as generals on the pitch with players being mere pawns. This created a toxic situation were Baggio would seek constant support from managers who absolutely hated him simply because he was more popular then they were. Which is why a player of that calibre would spend just 2 seasons at Milan and another 2 at Bologna with a big chunk of his career being played at clubs like Fiorentina, Bologna and Brescia

So don't think for a second that Baggio hasn't had his share of demons and troubles because its really not the case. While I do acknowledge that Cassano had more talent then Martial, even with all that talent he was nowhere near to Baggio. If he wasn't such an arse then he could have become a Totti but Baggio was on an entire different level. Its a shame that Roberto didn't end up with us. Under SAF the guy could have become as big as Cristiano Ronaldo.
Yes good post, Baggio had top 5 player of all time potential, I did say mini Baggie originally implying he was a lesser talent than Baggio even in an alternative world where he took his career more seriously.
 

Suedesi

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At his peak, he is/was a beatiful footballer with a magical left foot and the rare ability to create goals from nothing, a mini-Baggio, if you like the type. That said, in this current mechanised or mechanistic era, heavily focused on stats and analytics, he is clearly not worth the salary and the long commitment he was asking to renew his contract at Juve, especially considering that we are in a cost-cutting, rebuilding phase and he is an injury prone 29yo, always missing in the last three or four years when it counted the most. He would still make a nice icing on the cake for a top team in Spain, though. Or he may just semi-retire at Inter and live together his South American mates in Milan.
Juve tried to shift Dybala to Man United in 2019 with the famous exchange with Lukaku, which didn't pan out.
This I think killed the relationship between Paolo and Juventus. Dybala and his team did not take it well, and refused the exchange. This thing has had repercussions during the season that has led to exaggerated player for renewal. Both parties have played he media game, but Paulo has played little and with Vlahovic coming in Juve don't really need Dybala.

If relations were great, Juve would have waited for him as they did with Del Piero's post-injury years, and they would have done a deal for 5-6MM Euros a year, easily.
 

Suedesi

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Roby Baggio was one if not the greatest Italian player of the last 50 years - with Maldini and Baresi being close.

Totti, Del Piero, Cassano, etc are clearly a level below. Dybala is an unrealized potential, but he'd sit a rung below still.
 

Scholsey2004

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Dybala has been played wide right before at Juve and was crap. Better just to buy an actual right winger imo. He can only play well as a second striker and even then he doesn't have the legs to work hard and run about due to his numerous injuries. This would be the mother of all snake charms.
I agree with what youre saying, its not his ideal position. We've currently got no left footed wide player though (if you discount Mata, Diallo and Greenwood) and we seem to be very committed to the idea of inverted wingers.