Haven't seen much of Pele really, too young. Seems pretty handy though.
Pele on Messi
- Thread starter Pscholes18
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Haven't seen much of Pele really, too young. Seems pretty handy though.
Saying dumb things deserves ridicule. Having a knack for kicking a leather ball around a patch of grass doesnt change that.
Old man yelling at clouds.com.
Old man yelling at clouds.com.
It's hard to argue with a man that has won 3 world cups and is considered the greatest of all time.
In 20 years time people will rate Messi higher than Pele.
Also he’s literally scored a header in a CL final.
Also he’s literally scored a header in a CL final.
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Trophies are a team thing though. I never think it's fair to compare players with what they've won and not with your eyes.
Of course a great player should end up at a great club, but not so much luck internationally.
I've no opinion on this though as I've not seen enough of Pele.
There is this myth that he was overrated and not that amazing just hyped. I don't buy it. The fact that he good head those leather balls so well was impressive
That's Pele's personal view. Keyword: Pele's. I wouldn't listen to that & allow him to shove his opinion up his arse
All I ever think when watching his highlights is how incredibly far football has come since then. It looks like an extremely low stakes friendly where both teams are slightly drunk.
How often do you see Barca 'putting it in the mixer' for the lil' man? 
cnut
Honestly, I agree. I get that the balls were harder, pitches were shite, fitness wasn't as scientifically "solved", and players received nowhere near as much protection as they do nowadays, but it's like the difference between watching someone perform the YMCA dance while someone else goes absolutely nuts with break dancing.It's not like boxing where I can truly enjoy watching fights from 70+ years ago - When it comes to football, despite all his glory, influence, & obvious greatness, there's probably a 100 active players right now that I'd rather watch video compilations of than Pele.
Anyway, he just strikes me as a bitter old man. I can't imagine Ronaldo or Messi going "Yeah that Pele guy was well crap like, y'know?"
I don't think it is being anti-Pele so much as the overbearing arrogance of youth. Every generation tends to believe that their time is the most relevant, the apex of evolution. As a 90's kid I believe that era to be the finest period of the game ever. Marketing and media hype drives this phenomenon, look at the major sports around the world and the debating points are Messi v Ronaldo goat nonsense, Federer v Nadal v Djokovic as the best ever, Lebron James as the best ever, Tom Brady as the best ever, Lewis Hamilton as the best ever.
Probably cos they respect his greatness.
It's not like boxing where I can truly enjoy watching fights from 70+ years ago - When it comes to football, despite all his glory, influence, & obvious greatness, there's probably a 100 active players right now that I'd rather watch video compilations of than Pele.
Anyway, he just strikes me as a bitter old man. I can't imagine Ronaldo or Messi going "Yeah that Pele guy was well crap like, y'know?"
He's just saying that Ronaldo is better than Messi because he's a better all-round footballer because those are his metrics. Other see Messi doing certain things better than anyone has ever done them and rate them higher than Ronaldo's abilities or his for that matter. It's just a continuation of the Ronaldo vs Messi debate without anything new added to it.
I'm sure that if Messi were Brazilian his talk would be different. Let him have his opinion, ignore it and move on.
I'm sure that if Messi were Brazilian his talk would be different. Let him have his opinion, ignore it and move on.
I’m not even convinced a lot of ex players really watch that much football. Like, is Pele tuning in to watch La Liga or Champions League on even a semi regular basis? No idea. But doubt so.
It's all that viagra!
And it should not be forgotten how little of the greats of the past careers were captured on vid. My Father recounts moments of play from George Best that only exist in his memory or in a dusty paper archive
What's amazing is hipsters who compare the players to details and think they know everything about Pele after watching about 43 minutes of highlights video from 60 years ago from completely different level and era of football, and watching Messi twice a week for about ten years now. It's practically impossible to tell if Pele was better than Messi or whoever else even if you spent your entire life analysing it.
Anyway, Pele is obviously a cnut, imagine Messi or Ronaldo saying this about him or some other legendary player from history.
Anyway, Pele is obviously a cnut, imagine Messi or Ronaldo saying this about him or some other legendary player from history.
He comes across pretty bitter.
Pele would be great no matter what era he played in. My dad took me to see Brazil play at Goodison Park in 1966 and, although Pele was roughly handled by Portuguese defenders (and Hungarian defenders too), he still stood out. He reached his peak in that 1970 side that, for me, is the greatest ever assembled on the international stage. His heading was amazing; he almost seemed to hover and defy gravity when he jumped. His close control was incredible and he packed a hell of a shot in both feet.
Bring on the sticks but I agree with him. He achieved more as did Maradona.
So we can't he respect theirs instead of constantly downplaying their achievements/skill?
I agree. Funny enough, I can enjoy watching Cruyff, but Pele is really hard to watch. If I'm being honest, from my view as a younger person, it seems like Pele was more of a showpiece attraction than what we see today, and therefore its so difficult to compare. In truth its the basketball problem, is it fair to judge players who playing today against earlier generations where there were only 8 teams and there was no three point line?
It's not like boxing where I can truly enjoy watching fights from 70+ years ago - When it comes to football, despite all his glory, influence, & obvious greatness, there's probably a 100 active players right now that I'd rather watch video compilations of than Pele.
Anyway, he just strikes me as a bitter old man. I can't imagine Ronaldo or Messi going "Yeah that Pele guy was well crap like, y'know?"
Imagine if you watched Messi only once or twice....wouldn't you be saying the same thing. Or barcelona 2011, i am sure if seen once against say man utd at wembley, you would call them the greatest too.
After this video I'm 100% sure Pele is the best football player of all time.
Pele's jealous of Leo for some reason, he has no reason to be.
When Neymar was still playing in Brazil Pele said "How can Messi be the best player in the world when he's not as good as Neymar." .
Found the article... He said this in 2011... Messi was on his way to scoring 100 goals in 2 seasons...
https://www.goal.com/en/news/584/br...-pele-neymar-is-much-better-than-lionel-messi
"When Messi's scored 1,283 goals like me, when he's won three World Cups, we'll talk about it," another famous quote.
He also offered to send Messi a DVD when Leo said he have never seen him play and then never sent it.
Headed one two many footballs has Pele.
When Neymar was still playing in Brazil Pele said "How can Messi be the best player in the world when he's not as good as Neymar." .
Found the article... He said this in 2011... Messi was on his way to scoring 100 goals in 2 seasons...
https://www.goal.com/en/news/584/br...-pele-neymar-is-much-better-than-lionel-messi
"When Messi's scored 1,283 goals like me, when he's won three World Cups, we'll talk about it," another famous quote.
He also offered to send Messi a DVD when Leo said he have never seen him play and then never sent it.
Headed one two many footballs has Pele.
You think I'm calling Pele the greatest based on seeing him twice? That's not quite what I meant.
I'd rather have both than.....oh wait!
Also, who cares about Pele's opinion, which changes every time but is sure to turn negative as soon as someone threatens his legacy.
Also, I'm not expecting a Brazilian to be the most objective opinion on an Argentinian.
I don't think he's jealous. I think he just has strong opinions on who he likes and who he doesn't. Its always been that way. Neither him nor Maradona have ever been objective in their hot takes.
Yeah, I know where you’re going with this. Pelé was just so obviously biased towards his fellow Brazillian. M’bappé seems more like a player who’d fit into any team and style. Neymar also has 7 years on the teenager.I'd rather have both than.....oh wait!
10) China 2002
Pele Prediction: China will qualify for the next round from their 2002 World Cup group.
Outcome: China finish bottom of Group C with no wins, no draws, no points, no goals, as well as -9 in their goal-difference column.
9) Spain 1998
Pele Prediction: Spain are favourites for the 1998 World Cup in France.
Outcome: Spain humiliatingly dumped out in the first round after losing to Nigeria, and drawing with Paraguay.
Raul & Spain - Kings Of France '98?
8) Colombia To Live American Dream
Pele Prediction: Colombia will win the 1994 World Cup in the USA.
Outcome: Colombia exit the competition in the first round, finishing bottom of their group. Their defender Andres Escobar is also tragically shot dead by an angry fan after Colombia return home.
7) Argentina, France & World Cup 2002
Pele Prediction: Argentina & France will both reach the final.
Outcome: Both countries eliminated in the first round, France without even scoring a goal.
6) Escape To Victory
Pele Prediction: During the famous film starring Sylvester Stallone and Michael Caine, Allies star Pele is brutally fouled in the first half by the Nazi opponents. The injured Brazilian claims there is no way he can continue and is carried off. The Allies are 4-0 down, and a recovery is deemed impossible.
Outcome: Pele returns in the second half and inspires his team to an improbable comeback, even scoring a stunning bicycle kick. Even in fiction, Pele's predictions go wrong.
5) Ronaldo Is Finished
Pele Prediction: Ronaldo will never play football again, and his career is over, following a serious injury for Milan in February 2008.
Outcome: Ronaldo returns in March 2009 for Corinthians, scoring 10 goals in his first 14 games to win the Campeonato Paulista. Rumoured to be on the verge of a national team recall.
4) Nii Lamptey – ‘The New Pele’
Pele Prediction: After starring in the 1991 Under-17 World Cup, which also featured Alessandro Del Piero, Pele proclaims Ghana youngster Lamptey as his successor, ‘The New Pele’.
Outcome: What happens next goes down in football infamy. Lamptey spectacularly fails to fulfil his talent, believing himself that he was cursed by dark forces. The midfielder shifts around clubs such as PSV, Aston Villa, Coventry, Venezia and Ankaragucu without success.
3) Nicky Barmby - Up There With Zidane, Maldini & Ronaldo
Pele Prediction: Nicky Barmby will become a world class star.
Outcome: Nicky Barmby becomes nothing more than an average player, winning 23 England caps, and never even appearing in a World Cup.
2) Africa Will Rule
Pele Prediction: An African nation will win the World Cup before the year 2000.
Outcome: It is now 2009, and an African country has still yet to get past the quarter-final.
1) Brazil & World Cup 2002
Pele Prediction: Brazil won’t even get past the group stages.
Outcome: Brazil win the World Cup.
Pele Prediction: China will qualify for the next round from their 2002 World Cup group.
Outcome: China finish bottom of Group C with no wins, no draws, no points, no goals, as well as -9 in their goal-difference column.
9) Spain 1998
Pele Prediction: Spain are favourites for the 1998 World Cup in France.
Outcome: Spain humiliatingly dumped out in the first round after losing to Nigeria, and drawing with Paraguay.
Raul & Spain - Kings Of France '98?
8) Colombia To Live American Dream
Pele Prediction: Colombia will win the 1994 World Cup in the USA.
Outcome: Colombia exit the competition in the first round, finishing bottom of their group. Their defender Andres Escobar is also tragically shot dead by an angry fan after Colombia return home.
7) Argentina, France & World Cup 2002
Pele Prediction: Argentina & France will both reach the final.
Outcome: Both countries eliminated in the first round, France without even scoring a goal.
6) Escape To Victory
Pele Prediction: During the famous film starring Sylvester Stallone and Michael Caine, Allies star Pele is brutally fouled in the first half by the Nazi opponents. The injured Brazilian claims there is no way he can continue and is carried off. The Allies are 4-0 down, and a recovery is deemed impossible.
Outcome: Pele returns in the second half and inspires his team to an improbable comeback, even scoring a stunning bicycle kick. Even in fiction, Pele's predictions go wrong.
5) Ronaldo Is Finished
Pele Prediction: Ronaldo will never play football again, and his career is over, following a serious injury for Milan in February 2008.
Outcome: Ronaldo returns in March 2009 for Corinthians, scoring 10 goals in his first 14 games to win the Campeonato Paulista. Rumoured to be on the verge of a national team recall.
4) Nii Lamptey – ‘The New Pele’
Pele Prediction: After starring in the 1991 Under-17 World Cup, which also featured Alessandro Del Piero, Pele proclaims Ghana youngster Lamptey as his successor, ‘The New Pele’.
Outcome: What happens next goes down in football infamy. Lamptey spectacularly fails to fulfil his talent, believing himself that he was cursed by dark forces. The midfielder shifts around clubs such as PSV, Aston Villa, Coventry, Venezia and Ankaragucu without success.
3) Nicky Barmby - Up There With Zidane, Maldini & Ronaldo
Pele Prediction: Nicky Barmby will become a world class star.
Outcome: Nicky Barmby becomes nothing more than an average player, winning 23 England caps, and never even appearing in a World Cup.
2) Africa Will Rule
Pele Prediction: An African nation will win the World Cup before the year 2000.
Outcome: It is now 2009, and an African country has still yet to get past the quarter-final.
1) Brazil & World Cup 2002
Pele Prediction: Brazil won’t even get past the group stages.
Outcome: Brazil win the World Cup.
By being better at all of the other stuff? Pressing, moving off the ball, like Pele said, being two-footed, heading, etc.
Pele is definitely talking a load of crap here though, he's usually joking when he gets asked these questions and the media takes it out of context but here it's just nonsense.
'Pelé is a poet when he shuts his mouth. As a player, he's our King, our God, but he has to put a shoe in his mouth.' - Romário
Fair enough, it just comes across so bitter, I read his comments and I'm like "Jesus, Pele, you can't dislike someone so much for no reason". When you hear Messi talk about Ronaldo or vice versa its always filled with respect. When you hear Pele talk about Messi it just seems incredibly bitter when he has nothing to be bitter about, its like he feels he has to put Leo down to make himself feel better. It's just weird, I love the above quote from Romario. He's nailed it.
I really dislike the way people tend to dismiss football in previous eras, but Pele makes it really easy to dislike him. No problem at all with him or anyone else thinking he was better than Messi, but claiming Messi was one-dimensional? If that one dimension encompasses dribbling, scoring and passing to almost impossibly high levels then it's an incredibly impressive 'one skill' to have.
That Messi is one dimensional because he can't head the football... What else is there to be said? Idiotic comment from a GOAT tier footballer
Lots of great footballers say dumb things.
It's hard enough to compare players from different leagues - I dont know how it can be done through different eras.
The gap between Pele and his contemporaries was bigger than the gap between Messi and his contemporaries.
That's obviously not a way to measure if Pele is better or not, but he was even more of an outlier then than Messi is now.
That's obviously not a way to measure if Pele is better or not, but he was even more of an outlier then than Messi is now.
Didn’t he also rate Freddy adu higher than messi at one point?
Maradona was fantastic with his head though.
Speaking of Maradona, have you seen his recent red card as a Dorados manager.