Take a breath.
Pele on Messi
- Thread starter Pscholes18
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Not really. Every new generation will bring new greats and possibly ones that eclipse previous ones. That people have strong views on this topic is nothing unusual whatsoever. However greats for the past really don't need to be so insecure and clingy about their 'status' so as to make daft statements. I certainly hope Messi and whoever the next all time great is doesn't keep yapping on about themselves. I hope Federer doesn't keep calling himself the greatest/slamming future greats when he's bloody 65 years old. It's extremely classless and I feel you're excusing him for it.
As for the actually comparison - feck knows. It's impossible comparing footballers who played 50 plus years apart. They pretty much played different sports. And that's what strikes me when I watch videos of Pele. It's not really the same game. The defensive organisation is woeful, there's no double or triple marking of any substance. Press isn't really there. Tactics are at an amateur level. And attackers have tons of time and space to do fancy tricks with heavy touches that would be eaten up by today's defences. I'm sure Pele is an all time great. Of course he is. But you can't compare that version of football with this one no matter which one you prefer. And hence it's pointless comparing the footballers in them.
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Santos played and destroyed many of the top club teams in Europe on a regular basis. A lot of the “friendlies” people use against Pelé were actually tough and highly competitive exhibition games against the best sides from around Europe and South America.
Not to mention his complete destruction of the great Benfica in the 1962 Intercontinental Cup.
It's nice that he makes a fool of himself literally in the first comment
Back then South American teams were every bit as good as their European counterparts and Pele may have moved to Europe had the Brazilian government not banned him from being transferred.
The new v old thing isn't much of an argument either. Close control and pace goes out of the window with the state of the pitches and equipment back then. I remember watching Spurs and Man City play a friendly on a quagmire pitch in torrential rain in Hong Kong a few years ago, the game resembled the 1960s more than it did 2010s. Slow passing, nobody closing down, poor touches all round. If Pele was born in 1995 he would be unstoppable now just like he was then.
Totally agree. It's the most obvious difference between him and Messi, but also him and Pele. Pele and Messi are different personalities but neither are charismatic leaders that acted like magnets in the way Maradona so obviously was.
Pele's only talked about the technical and physical skillet though, and with the exception of Messi's finishing and Maradona' s passing, they're neck and neck on everything else surely. Which one you value more out of those two facets of play dictates who you think is the more skilled player, but no matter how much you value creative passing there's no way you can say Maradona's leaps ahead. Pele's just being foolish because he can.
Where there even offsides in Pele's time? I recall our best 'striker' in secondary school being a bloke who spent the whole game with the opposing keeper till some long ball came around and he just spun and put it in the net
Offside has always been part of the game since its inception. The rule is more attacker-friendly now than it has ever been.
In my opinion, Pelé came off as surprisingly bitter and jealous when talking about THE BEST CLUB PLAYER OF ALL TIME, LIONEL MESSI.
Maradona was better than Pelé anyway. And Cruyff. Even C.Ronaldo is better than Pelé.
Maradona was better than Pelé anyway. And Cruyff. Even C.Ronaldo is better than Pelé.
Curious to see your reasoning on Pele being better than Messi(and to an extent Maradona).
I have Pele ahead of both too.
Pele and Maradona are top 1 and 2 in the sport with an argument for Messi being valid. That people try and marginalise them and disparage non-stop (it happens in every single thread of this nature) in an attempt to discredit for the benefit of 'amazing modern football' is part of the reason why they both rebut and refute as they do.
This issue is not abundant with the other true gods of the game because they don't get the same comments or subject matter thrown their way constantly, lest we forget Messi is brought up as the potential dethroner to the both of them - so they're asking Pele and/or Maradona constantly about a player who could possibly supplant them from the top of the tree. As footballers and competitors and individuals who have known nothing but reverence up until the past decade or so where the cultists of both Ronaldo and Messi have really gone to town on besmirching both their names and footballing credibility, the media have bought into that, too with the influence of social media generating a perpetual cycle between the two. It should never come as a surprise when either of them bite back in the midst of ever-increasing reduction of their quality and status in the game.
Messi, as I stated in my first post, is a victim of what goes on around him - he keeps his mouth shut, never bites back when either has a pop at him, much to his credit, but then, he doesn't need to as his hoard will go ape-shit for him. Still, it's a sad state of affairs that things are the way they are, on both sides.
Regarding the future, if Messi and Ronaldo get the treatment Pelé and Maradona have from generations yet to be born, then we'll see how they react.
You can't compare tennis to football - tennis is a lot more reserved and the discussions about greatest in it not nearly as heated or important. There's never going to be a need for Federer to shoot from the hip about a rival or future great because he won't get the same level of disparagement or discredit for achievements in the future.
All the Messi fans triggered all over Pele's social media 
wankers
wankersWhile Maradona was very one-footed (probably even more than Messi), he was great in the air (and controlled the ball with his head as easily as he did with his feet) and the array of his skills were vastly superior to Messi. Messi pretty much never uses any creative dribbling, he's very "boring" (it's obviously not boring when he does it and is in no way a criticism of him in my eyes) as he just takes the ball and runs with it. Maradona used rabonas, elasticos and overhead kicks/crosses left and right, he was very much like an even better version of Ronaldinho.
His argument is similar to that of FIFA players. I like it, keep going Pele, destroy twitter.
The same happened with Maradona while the dictatorship was around here
Ehhh, no. He does body feints, stop-go accelerations and sudden change of directions which is impossible to do for most players.
Messi could surely do all that stuff, but the fact is he doesn't need to. When it comes to the game as a show, Maradona was more entertaning for sure, as Ronaldinho. But Messi is surely the most effective player in the history of the game. Most of the time, all the luxiries he does in the field such as nutmegs, body feints, sombreros and any other stuff are done just to move foward towards the opposition goal.
How can an almost 80 year old be so insecure? This guy probably goes to his grandchildren's youth football games and tells them: "You did well there, great goal, but when I was your age I would have scored a hattrick with my left leg, right leg and head, don't forget that."
You’re getting defensive over nothing. No one aside from perhaps Maradona can “simply run with the ball” like Messi, and of course it involves body feints and sudden changes of directions, but, generally speaking, it qualifies as a broader definition of running with the ball.
He probably can do all of this stuff, but the fact is, aside from a few examples, he doesn’t — so he’s a less variable player than Maradona or Pelé. As I said earlier, it doesn’t mean that’s he’s a lesser player than them, since he achieves similar level of performances.
Comparing the level of 2 players from different eras is totally absurd. Yes, if 55 Pele was playing against 2018 teams, he would suck, and nobody knows how Messi would play in 55 when the game was taught the way it was taught back then. You can coun't titles, you can count goals but in the end, the most important factor imo is about what they brought to their sport. And if you take that into account, even if Messi brought something unique to the game, what Pele invented changed football forever. You still see moves he created used by players nowadays (look at the way he accelerates when the ball is stopped, it's now one of Neymar's most lethal skills).
From another angle, the total lack of Messi's leadership abilities really impacts the way i rate him. Mental abilities is also a part of being a great player, a GOAT, and in this aspect, Messi is miles below Pele or CR7. You can't pretend being the GOAT when you systematically fail to score for your team when it matters in important international games. You can't pretend being a GOAT when you look at your shoes on the pitch, powerless, like a lost child while your team is getting destroyed (the way he did against France). There's just no way imo.
From another angle, the total lack of Messi's leadership abilities really impacts the way i rate him. Mental abilities is also a part of being a great player, a GOAT, and in this aspect, Messi is miles below Pele or CR7. You can't pretend being the GOAT when you systematically fail to score for your team when it matters in important international games. You can't pretend being a GOAT when you look at your shoes on the pitch, powerless, like a lost child while your team is getting destroyed (the way he did against France). There's just no way imo.