Pep - Doping (?) | Are PEDs being used by footballers

[JoaquinJoaquin]

We probably tried doping but dealers thought we were narcs using a fax machine to place orders.

Or we got Valium instead judging by some of our play at times

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I am sure a lot of teams are doped and that includes our team to be honest. Peps team often try to dive and get around the rules and I think it is the same in the medical department. Mourinho is no better though and so goes with most top managers. Which teams got the best doctors and medical teams to trick the rules I got no idea about though.

 

[Javi]

Come on Javi, that is how athletes get caught, by messing up the cycles, or the body reacting differently to expected etc.

Sure, but in ten years nobody has been tested positive so excuse me for placing the benefit of the doubt on the accused until further evidence is provided since it would seem to take nothing short of a miracle that nobody fecked up just once and be it a lazy one like Yaya.

 

[Womp]

Or we got Valium instead judging by some of our play at times

Not to add some sort of anti-drug. Bailly has to be the first person in history to get injured while recovering from injury.

 

[kouroux]

If this is true and there is enough evidence to make a compelling case, why aren't United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs doing something to stop it?

Either it's mostly myths, or everyone else does it too. So it doesn't really matter too much.

This is probably right tbh.

 

[Slevs]

If it was a one time thing I'd be dismissive of it.

But his involvement in PEDs from his playing days, his management career, the spanish court burning blood samples, city's transformation etc all make me suspicious. Obviously without proof nothing can be proven but he'll forever be tainted with this accusation I think.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Or we got Valium instead judging by some of our play at times

That was the LVG way of doping. Given his poor signings of players he did equally bad with his doping. Too stubborn to use any modern stuff and used old school dutch legal drugs from back in his youth days .

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

It's very strange how his Man City team seem to be so fresh week in week out despite playing midweek matches. Their match intensity does not change as well - you get everyone running and hounding with their pressing, like mad dogs - I don't think it's natural. Even Liverpool with their gegenpress have noticeably tired during matches and are not as fresh week in week out.

I wonder though why will they be able to get much better drugs than everyone else though? Does he know some secret special doctors?

 

[Womp]

No, it just means they haven't been caught yet.

With the money and pressure to win in football why would the richest clubs not dope? Why would it only be Pep?

Because I don't instantly assume anyone does anything illegal without proof? Fact of the matter is, no other club or manager has had accusations of this sort and a history involved with this kind of shit like Pep has.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

No wonder Fabregas went bald in Barcelona and now Silva is shaving his head at City.

 

[HTG]

Considering that Müller Wohlfahrt is about as shady a doc as it gets, it’s funny that some on here seem to think that Pep clashing with him proves anything.
But generally speaking, I have no illusions here. I assume that about any big club uses some sort of doping. Especially when players recover from injuries.

 

[Manchester Dan]

When you can’t beat them on the pitch, take it off it. I expect loads of stuff to come out about City players over the next few weeks. Steroids in the gravy.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

If only Mou had some dope to provide KDB years ago, Klopp must be doing similar with Salah as well

If Pogba and Valencia is not on anything at all imagine how great they would be with drugs . I guess the german and spanish doctors are one step ahead helping Klopp and Pep. Secret behind german football sucess is in chemical engineering .

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Or we got Valium instead judging by some of our play at times

Anderson ate the club's entire supply of that. He didn't know what they were he just thought they were edible.

 

[onemanarmy]

Not to add some sort of anti-drug. Bailly has to be the first person in history to get injured while recovering from injury.

Bale, Kompany...

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I personally think everybody uses performance enhancing substances, some just do it better and more effective than others. Pep seems to be that kind o guy who knows every percent he can get more out of his players is important

Yepp fully agree with that. He might be pushing the limits more than others taking bigger risks. How much you will gain is also very tricky, but I am sure top clubs these days will have doctors that will do the best they can to keep the teams in optimal shape.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

We can sit here and try not to seem like we're biased, but I think that if we're honest, it's pretty clear that he's been involved in this for a long time, and that he's very likely still doing so. It's silly to say it's impossible because the more stringent the authorities become, the more ways they will find to circumvent this. These things are not a coincidence or there would be dozens of managers with similar tales.

 

[Womp]

Bale, Kompany...

It was tongue in cheek pal.

 

[Grylte]

Not surprised if this is true.
Hope it is, and they are caught, and sent back into league 1-2, where they belong

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

No wonder Fabregas went bald in Barcelona and now Silva is shaving his head at City.

Would be sad if Silva is out due to physical problem from doping. He was injured before the game against us and maybe Pep used all the drugs he could do to get him ready for the game and now it backfired. Or he might be away due to avoiding any drug tests as a tactical plan.

We have seen heart problem and other stuff happening before. If they push limits like that we need to be much harder. If the doping have no negative effects to health long term I don't really care much. It is like shirt pulling and other tricks players use to gain a slight advantage.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Is the general feeling on here really "well if someone's doing it, probably everyone else is doing it too, but just haven't been caught... it's not cheating if everyone's doing it"?

That with no evidence of the majority of others doing it. I'd imagine many clubs (particularly the historic ones) value the reputation of the club over short-term success.

PS. In relation to skipping tests, has any player in the history of football ever gotten a longer ban than Rio?

 

[villain]

I'm sure he's not the only one but you're jumping the ship there if you take that history to claim he has always been doping and is doing it right now.

Also you're failing to address the actual point people make when they say 'everyone does it' which isn't based on everybody having a history but on circumstantial points like Pep being at different clubs with differents docs dealing with different players. Surely Bayern players would take notice that they are missing something coincidentially since Pep has gone? You think former clubs and former players were happy to let Pep win against them (he played Barça with both City and Bayern) by doping and not saying a word? Given the money involved especially in the PL everybody is trying to have the best medical treatment and using substances the best possible way is an important aspect I don't see other clubs not trying to maximize their output from.

Personally, I’m of the belief that there’s no smoke without fire, especially when it comes to doping.

Has there ever been an athlete or team of medical professionals behind a team who has been accused of doping and there was no evidence to be found?
Most of these things come out much later. We’re even seeing this in cycling with Froome more recently.

Why have these allegations not been aimed at Mourinho or SAF for example? Both have had periods of domination and broken records.
The closest that have come have been Rio missing one test and being subsequently banned, and Mutu being banned for doing coke. Other managers such as Wenger or Ancelotti even Zidane with

Secondly, in professional sports your doctor, nutritionist, physician etc recommend supplements for you to take. Every professional athlete will be taking supplements of some kind whether it’s caffeine or vitamins they rely on a course of nutrients that has been prescribed specifically for them - so it’s not exactly unlikelyfor them to take substances that can help improve their performance without their knowledge. Even amateur gym goers have a course of supplements they use to gain an extra edge.

Finally a lot of these issues are hushed by NDA’s and other legal agreements, the players and clubs aren’t able to speak out. I work in a law firm which provide contracts for agents and sports management companies, primarily in America but some places in Europe too, I can’t say much more than that and it would be naive to imagine that we are the only ones providing such a service.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Would be sad if Silva is out due to physical problem from doping. He was injured before the game against us and maybe Pep used all the drugs he could do to get him ready for the game and now it backfired. Or he might be away due to avoiding any drug tests as a tactical plan.

We have seen heart problem and other stuff happening before. If they push limits like that we need to be much harder. If the doping have no negative effects to health long term I don't really care much. It is like shirt pulling and other tricks players use to gain a slight advantage.

A lot of the science is not known, which is what makes doping hard to regulate. Things like centrifuging blood cells at leat sound harmless in the long run as its blood derived from your own body to improve recovery but when you start playing with hormones you are into sketchy territory.

 

[Semiarty]

We probably tried doping but dealers thought we were narcs using a fax machine to place orders.

No wonder Fabregas went bald in Barcelona and now Silva is shaving his head at City.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Is the general feeling on here really "well if someone's doing it, probably everyone else is doing it too, but just haven't been caught... it's not cheating if everyone's doing it"?

That with no evidence of the majority of others doing it. I'd imagine many clubs (particularly the historic ones) value the reputation of the club over short-term success.

PS. In relation to skipping tests, has any player in the history of football ever gotten a longer ban than Rio?

What is quite clear is that teams are pushing the limits in order to win in all areas. Peps team also dive a lot maybe even more than other teams, but others are doing it too. They might also dope more than other teams even if others are doing it as well. Few teams will be totally innocent and also the drug laws might not be totally clear and there is a gradual scale. We had a Liverpool playing being caught for doping as well.

City might have more people to bribe themselfes out of problems too compared to us. Still I doubt few top teams are totally innocent.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Did you read what the actual infractions were:

"A first-team player missed a test on 1 September 2016 because the hotel address provided was no longer correct.

In addition, City also failed to inform the FA of an extra first-team training session on 12 July 2016, while anti-doping officials were unable to test reserve players on 7 December, 2016 because six of them had been given the day off without the FA being informed."

So one guy moved house, or to a house from the hotel he'd be living at.

City didn't tell the FA that they'd put a second training session in one day in pre-season.

And six players had been given a rest day the day after a game.

It's clerically clumsy though hardly suspicious is it.

Rio got a 9 month ban for accidentally missing a test. I'm not saying every clerical error should result in a ban, but you can surely understand why some United supporters wonder why a precedent hasn't been set.

 

[Boycott]

A lot of that thread is based on Guardiola's nandrolone positive in 2001 at Brescia. A spate of footballers all got done at the same time, most of them Dutch. Research carried out around 2000 showed that around a third of apparently legal supplements (protein powders primarily) in Holland were contaminated and generated positive nandrolone results. Interestingly, the highest proportion of contaminated supplements were in Holland and it was lower in other European countries.

That's not to ignore the problem of doping in football, but the nandrolone scandal is largely irrelevant from what I've read on the subject.

Jaap Stam got a four month ban for this shortly after joining Lazio from Utd.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

What is quite clear is that teams are pushing the limits in order to win in all areas. Peps team also dive a lot maybe even more than other teams, but others are doing it too. They might also dope more than other teams even if others are doing it as well. Few teams will be totally innocent and also the drug laws might not be totally clear and there is a gradual scale. We had a Liverpool playing being caught for doping as well.

City might have more people to bribe themselfes out of problems too compared to us. Still I doubt few top teams are totally innocent.

I'm approaching this topic somewhat dispassionately because there is little proof, just a lot of suspicion.I just find it an interesting juxtaposition where some posters are discussing the accused as being "innocent until proven guilty" whilst others are taking a "probably guilty since there's no way to prove innocence" approach to not just the accused, but all sport.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

A lot of the science is not known, which is what makes doping hard to regulate. Things like centrifuging blood cells at leat sound harmless in the long run as its blood derived from your own body to improve recovery but when you start playing with hormones you are into sketchy territory.

I agree with that. I think maybe it is better to let people use drugs if they can be open and honest about it much more so we can gain more scientific knowledge and well avoid more bad health effects. More open information about it and helping us get players with better fitness in a healthy way would be good for the sport in my view.

So much money in these areas though which aid corruption. Both in the drug industry and football.

For me though when it comes to cheating bribes to win matches or officials is the worst kind of cheating. It certainly happens sadly.

Drugs/diving and tricks on the pitch is secondary as it is still more fair. I think it will never go away fully even if I don't like it. I am quite drug liberal in general though so maybe that is why I am not as moved about drug doping anymore.

 

[Javi]

Personally, I’m of the belief that there’s no smoke without fire, especially when it comes to doping.

Has there ever been an athlete or team of medical professionals behind a team who has been accused of doping and there was no evidence to be found?
Most of these things come out much later. We’re even seeing this in cycling with Froome more recently.

I think that's a troubling stance that fails to recognize at least 300 years of human history regarding the presumption of innocence.

Why have these allegations not been aimed at Mourinho or SAF for example? Both have had periods of domination and broken records.
The closest that have come have been Rio missing one test and being subsequently banned, and Mutu being banned for doing coke. Other managers such as Wenger or Ancelotti even Zidane with

I don't know why they are only aimed at Pep but I have a hard time finding any merit on your position to credit allegations with any sort of actual point.

Secondly, in professional sports your doctor, nutritionist, physician etc recommend supplements for you to take. Every professional athlete will be taking supplements of some kind whether it’s caffeine or vitamins they rely on a course of nutrients that has been prescribed specifically for them - so it’s not exactly unlikelyfor them to take substances that can help improve their performance without their knowledge. Even amateur gym goers have a course of supplements they use to gain an extra edge.

Yes, but if the substances Pep exclusively makes his players take and they provide some sort of edge over opponents, don't you think players would miss that after he left?

Finally a lot of these issues are hushed by NDA’s and other legal agreements, the players and clubs aren’t able to speak out. I work in a law firm which provide contracts for agents and sports management companies, primarily in America but some places in Europe too, I can’t say much more than that and it would be naive to imagine that we are the only ones providing such a service.

Correct me if I'm wrong but NDA's can't be indefinite because that would conflict with personality rights, so words would still get out at some point and NDA's only cover the original source, the players and staff. If they told somebody and they then - protecting their source ofc - go public there is only so much you can do with an NDA. Doesn't seem plausible to me that this is keeping this kind of conduct running like some sort of Omerta.

 

[breakout67]

Doping is widespread in football (and in all popular sports), and this isn't some bodybuilding doping that makes you massive. Muscle recovery, injury rehab, in-game performance.

Doping has improved the sport massively, from entertainment value because athletes can push their limits, but also in mitigating the impact of injuries on athletes. The major reason doping is illegal is because it allows a black market without the interference of legislation (similar to how governments made certain drugs illegal, while trading these drugs under the table for huge profits).

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I'm approaching this topic somewhat dispassionately because there is little proof, just a lot of suspicion.I just find it an interesting juxtaposition where some posters are discussing the accused as being "innocent until proven guilty" whilst others are taking a "probably guilty since there's no way to prove innocence" approach to not just the accused, but all sport.

You can look at the body of evidence. FIFA corruption had so much evidence I was pretty much 99% sure it was true even if I could not prove it (it is still around to 100%). Doping is the same in my view. That a lot of people are pushing the line we can all agree on. Exactly how they do it is not easy to see. I can't know what all players eat and use all the time and what is legal or not. Although I know how people and football people functions. Many of them will want to win at all cost and so if they can gain an advantage taking drugs I think they would say yes without a doubt.

We can't know for sure either that players dive because we can't know what they tried to do. Although there is still evidence for players diving in general right?

 

[Infra-red]

Rio got a 9 month ban for accidentally missing a test. I'm not saying every clerical error should result in a ban, but you can surely understand why some United supporters wonder why a precedent hasn't been set.

You forgot to put "accidentally" in inverted commas.

 

[Steven_Seagull]

I went to every home game last season & have done the same this season to date.

I was aware of Pep's history on doping before he joined us. With the pressure he will be under managing us, & our owners intentions to dominate at all costs, alarm bells are ringing for me.

I must admit the difference in our performances is marked. I don't think it's attainable to reach this difference purely by training, especially in the short time span between seasons. I do also find it strange that we are not picking up injuries when the team are working harder than ever before. Silva is in the veteran stage of his career yet is running games better than ever.

In mitigation,this has been a crazy season for us so far & we have been fairly lucky, everything could be down to chance.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Anyway it is a terribl excuse for us to us this why we are shit. Physicality is pretty much the one thing we are good at. Other areas is the problem for us.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

You can look at the body of evidence. FIFA corruption had so much evidence I was pretty much 99% sure it was true even if I could not prove it (it is still around to 100%). Doping is the same in my view. That a lot of people are pushing the line we can all agree on. Exactly how they do it is not easy to see. I can't know what all players eat and use all the time and what is legal or not. Although I know how people and football people functions. Many of them will want to win at all cost and so if they can gain an advantage taking drugs I think they would say yes without a doubt.

We can't know for sure either that players dive because we can't know what they tried to do. Although there is still evidence for players diving in general right?

Diving is a different form of cheating, but each individual act of diving is a decision taken in a split second. If they are seen to have dived (whether they did actually dive or not) there is the potential for punishment (yellow card, retrospective ban). Just like premeditated murder is different to an instantaneous reaction that results in a death, the two should result in different punishments. At the moment, doping may be dividing our game's legends from the also-rans... which diminishes the spectacle, romance etc. considerably. I personally see this as a far greater crime than initiating contact with a defender's leg. I am also in support of VAR, which could eradicate diving. Doping stops it becoming a sport, it's sports entertainment.

 

[villain]

I think that's a troubling stance that fails to recognize at least 300 years of human history regarding the presumption of innocence.

I don't know why they are only aimed at Pep but I have a hard time finding any merit on your position to credit allegations with any sort of actual point.

Yes, but if the substances Pep exclusively makes his players take and they provide some sort of edge over opponents, don't you think players would miss that after he left?

Correct me if I'm wrong but NDA's can't be indefinite because that would conflict with personality rights, so words would still get out at some point and NDA's only cover the original source, the players and staff. If they told somebody and they then - protecting their source ofc - go public there is only so much you can do with an NDA. Doesn't seem plausible to me that this is keeping this kind of conduct running like some sort of Omerta.

But like I said - who has been accused of doping repeatedly and there has been no evidence found, even years after the fact?
I can only think of the likes of FloJo who died.

I think if primarily one manager has a history of claims being made about them, and no other manager on his level of talent or recognition has none such accusations that is surely a point worth considering.
Especially since the claims come from a wide variety of sources over a large period of time, it seems implausible for there to be an anti-pep directive here.

You’re thinking that doping only refers to an instant effect. I’m going to PM you my response to this and the next point.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I went to every home game last season & have done the same this season to date.

I was aware of Pep's history on doping before he joined us. With the pressure he will be under managing us, & our owners intentions to dominate at all costs, alarm bells are ringing for me.

I must admit the difference in our performances is marked. I don't think it's attainable to reach this difference purely by training, especially in the short time span between seasons. I do also find it strange that we are not picking up injuries when the team are working harder than ever before. Silva is in the veteran stage of his career yet is running games better than ever.

In mitigation,this has been a crazy season for us so far & we have been fairly lucky, everything could be down to chance.

Respect for this post. I'll say this much, if he's innocent, this is all incredibly sad.

 

[André Dominguez]

That just means you didn't get caught, doesn't nessecarily make it legal though? For example if Pep was to come out and admit his players were under the influence of enhancing drugs, he'd still get done, whether or not they were under the 'acceptable' limit.

That is another issue. The truth is while players are inside the legal parameters, they won't be investigated unless there is some DEA interest in investigating it. Until then, anti-doping sport agencies have litlle power to go deeper without an hostile approach, which they rarely do.

Ad even so, if they are taking the right dosage they will probably never get caught.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

You forgot to put "accidentally" in inverted commas.

I did forget, there's no proof if it was accidental or not.