Pep - Doping (?) | Are PEDs being used by footballers

[Javi]

But like I said - who has been accused of doping repeatedly and there has been no evidence found, even years after the fact?
I can only think of the likes of FloJo who died.

I think if primarily one manager has a history of claims being made about them, and no other manager on his level of talent or recognition has none such accusations that is surely a point worth considering.
Especially since the claims come from a wide variety of sources over a large period of time, it seems implausible for there to be an anti-pep directive here.

You’re thinking that doping only refers to an instant effect.

Re: your first point I really don't know well enough to answer but I sure know that using that - and that would require being very well informed - as a premise to conclude that allegations about doping must be true is a fallacy. The Barça team from Pep was routinely accused of doping and there hasn't come anything by it for example.

Re: your second point I think that you're making a mistake in your logic if you don't actually address the content of the claims but only their existence and their origin. What we have is Pep testing positive while being a player and his teams - tbf repeatedly - failing to report their 'whereabouts' to the respective football association, right? So not actually strong claims at all. No positive tests, no claimed substances used. It is clearly shady though.

I don't think doping only refers to an instant effect by the way, and that doesn't refute my point as it doesn't matter what type of effect doping has but any effect at all.

 

[2 man midfield]

It would be pretty big for us if Pep was found out. We've been second best to his teams frequently.

 

[SER19]

He was charged as a player. I guess that speaks volumes about the man, his teams openly cheat.

But to suggest he's been overseeing some widespread doping of his teams is a bit farcical to be honest. It's just not happening.

 

[haram]

I thought Barca/Spain were on some thing especially with the blood tests being destroyed by Spanish courts that always bothered me.

I do see a big increase from the entire team even sterling is shrugging of people for fun they certainly was not this fit last year lets say...

Its only teams pep manages that seem to do this also they suddenly turn into never injured monsters but i could be just bitter after 2 cl final losses, But then again i would not be shocked if it came out as true as i dont see how coaching helps people like sterling who ive watched for years suddenly strong and running like Park all game.

Sterling has always been quite strong for his size.

 

[Schneckerl]

But like I said - who has been accused of doping repeatedly and there has been no evidence found, even years after the fact?
I can only think of the likes of FloJo who died.

Kratochvilova still has the 800 m women WR and was technically never convicted.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I guess this christmas will test them a bit. If they keep playing the same 11 all games being super fresh I guess it shows superior fitness to other teams. Although I still find it strange that they would have drugs no other clubs use.

Here in Sweden we got Östersund who have done amazing. I have suspected them for doping for quite a long time since the improved fitness have been quite insane and it could be key to why they are doing so well.

Although as I say massive improved fitness doesn't need to be illegal. I personally don't have enough medical skills to be able to tell the difference. Although if drugs can be very useful I am sure a lot of clubs will use them as long as they can get away with it.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Anyway it is a terribl excuse for us to us this why we are shit. Physicality is pretty much the one thing we are good at. Other areas is the problem for us.

I don't think anyone is using that as a reason for our own form. But potentially it could be the difference why City look so much better and fitter than the rest of the league.

 

[donkeyfish]

I'm surprised there aren't more positive tests in football. Not just city. Probably needs more rigorous testing procedures.

I've got this fear that there'll be a huge scandal some day. Won't be good for the sport.

 

[Karel Podolsky]

So, the fact that Barca keep winning trophies after Pep left is the proof that their success wasn't down to Pep but because of the drugs.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I don't think anyone is using that as a reason for our own form. But potentially it could be the difference why City look so much better and fitter than the rest of the league.

They are keeping the ball a lot though so maybe don't need to run as much. I think we as a team run a lot too and Lukaku plays all games. Not sure we are any worse really in terms of fitness.

I think Silva is the one player you might suspect the most cause he has improved so much at that age that you wonder what they have done with him (him being gone now might be a cover up). De Bruyne I guess as well, but he is younger although could be helped by some crazy stuff.
Aguero don't look that fit anymore and Yaya still look like total shit not sure any drugs will help him. Sterling, Sane fit young players. Fernandino always been quite naturally fit. Walker very fit too and the other players don't run that much.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Sure, but in ten years nobody has been tested positive so excuse me for placing the benefit of the doubt on the accused until further evidence is provided since it would seem to take nothing short of a miracle that nobody fecked up just once and be it a lazy one like Yaya.

Pep tested positive and then took his doctor to Barca with him. This is a great read.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2017/04/25/sharapova-guardiola-doping-darkness-and-light-250401/

If all that is true you have to be hugely suspicious of him?

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Normally I'm quite keen to discuss doping use on here, and I'm very cynical about the subject in general. But in a context where there's an absurd Pep/City love affair mixed with a lot of petty frustration towards them going on, opening a thread like this is a bit too much imo. I'd say it's incredibly small time, actually.

 

[Ramshock]

Wouldnt surprise me. Maybe he sent Bristol City some vitamins last week

 

[Schmiznurf]

They should be testing city at least once a week.

 

[Sassy Colin]

What's this, an anti City thread? On Bluecafe? Surely not St. Pep himself, and just before Xmas too?

Hang the cnut at the stake and Ban City from football for all I care.

 

[redom]

If he is using doping, more so than others, then he must be pretty good at it too because he's managed to keep it from being discovered despite the rumours and links to dodgy docs, maybe others should learn how he manages to keep it under the radar.

 

[Javi]

Pep tested positive and then took his doctor to Barca with him. This is a great read.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2017/04/25/sharapova-guardiola-doping-darkness-and-light-250401/

If all that is true you have to be hugely suspicious of him?

Thanks for the link, I have read it (mostly, skimmed some parts). It doesn't refer to any stint Pep has as a manager, but only to his positive test for Nandrolone in 2001 that he has been cleared from in a dodgy procedure. It also mentions a lot of other players taking this substance at the time and the only link to Pep as a manager seems to be Dr. Segura himself being part of his staff at Barça (only there?).

So to answer your question I have suspicion in me but tbh there isn't enough there for me to say it's plausible that he does it now and this article doesn't increase that suspicion since it doesn't contain any information about Pep as a manager. Just because he has used doping then he must use doping now? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

What's this, an anti City thread? On Bluecafe? Surely not St. Pep himself, and just before Xmas too?

Hang the cnut at the stake and Ban City from football for all I care.

 

[Pexbo]

The reason I have trouble believing these sort of rumours is that he must have had around 50-70 players under him now that can be considered as first team players. Then you have all the coaching staff that would be on a need to know basis with it. It only takes one of them to trust the wrong friend with the info who then rips off a journalist.

The reason Armstrong could get away with it is because of the relatively small “need to know” circle.

 

[Manchester Dan]

What's this, an anti City thread? On Bluecafe? Surely not St. Pep himself, and just before Xmas too?

Hang the cnut at the stake and Ban City from football for all I care.

Sassy.

 

[Fener1907]

Can't be assed at the moment to write paragraph after paragraph about my cynicism, but I'm convinced it's more widespread than most would say.

The Lance Armstrong situation forever tainted the image of sports to me, and it's not because I was a staunch believer who felt aggrieved upon learning the truth after many years of supporting him. My problem was the blind ignorance that plagued many even when the claims kept coming and coming, and even after the truth finally came out, a good number still refused to condemn him, instead pointing fingers elsewhere and blaming the sport for his misdeeds. I've since had conversations in Spain about Alberto Contador (convicted cheat) and had people flat-out refuse to believe he transgressed in any way. I've even been met with responses along the lines of Froome potentially cheating, despite the fact that I'm utterly convinced he is cheating and don't care about his nationality.

People don't care about the truth as long as they're emotionally invested to such an extent, meaning the ruling bodies aren't compelled to act when there's no pressure to, so Pep and all of the other cheats will continue to do so and shrug off claims as being the result of bitterness and jealousy.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

The reason I have trouble believing these sort of rumours is that he must have had around 50-70 players under him now that can be considered as first team players. Then you have all the coaching staff that would be on a need to know basis with it. It only takes one of them to trust the wrong friend with the info who then rips off a journalist.

The reason Armstrong could get away with it is because of the relatively small “need to know” circle.

How many of these players would know that they are doping though? It's well known alot of players aren't the most intelligent and if the medical team advise the player to take a jab here and there, they may not even be aware of what is going on. That's probably a big reach, but hey you never know.

 

[Pexbo]

How many of these players would know that they are doping though? It's well known alot of players aren't the most intelligent and if the medical team advise the player to take a jab here and there, they may not even be aware of what is going on. That's probably a big reach, but hey you never know.

Jesus, do you know the implications of what you are suggesting? That’s far worse and far more unbelievable than the players being in on it. Putting his players careers and health in jeopardy without their knowledge? Nah, I’m not having that.

 

[Dobbs]

If he is using doping, more so than others, then he must be pretty good at it too because he's managed to keep it from being discovered despite the rumours and links to dodgy docs, maybe others should learn how he manages to keep it under the radar.

Doesn't strike me as too difficult. As usual football gives zero fecks as long as there's entertainment and money involved.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Said it in De Bruyne thread. You cant make most sprints and cover bigest distance in one game.hardly surprised

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Jesus, do you know the implications of what you are suggesting? That’s far worse and far more unbelievable than the players being in on it. Putting his players careers and health in jeopardy without their knowledge? Nah, I’m not having that.

I did say it was a big reach

 

[UweBein]

No surprise there. I think that more than 50% of football players are actually on PED.
All the statistical evidence points to the fact that it's not only Russian athletes that are doping systematically.

 

[Dobbs]

The reason I have trouble believing these sort of rumours is that he must have had around 50-70 players under him now that can be considered as first team players. Then you have all the coaching staff that would be on a need to know basis with it. It only takes one of them to trust the wrong friend with the info who then rips off a journalist.

The reason Armstrong could get away with it is because of the relatively small “need to know” circle.

We've seen bigger scandals go under the radar with much bigger numbers of people involved.

As others have said he won't be the only one.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Thanks for the link, I have read it (mostly, skimmed some parts). It doesn't refer to any stint Pep has as a manager, but only to his positive test for Nandrolone in 2001 that he has been cleared from in a dodgy procedure. It also mentions a lot of other players taking this substance at the time and the only link to Pep as a manager seems to be Dr. Segura himself being part of his staff at Barça (only there?).

So to answer your question I have suspicion in me but tbh there isn't enough there for me to say it's plausible that he does it now and this article doesn't increase that suspicion since it doesn't contain any information about Pep as a manager. Just because he has used doping then he must use doping now? Doesn't make sense to me.

I would implore you to read it more closely. He was cleared on a technicality, on the remote chance that that his sample could have evolved in the test tube to give a false positive

In 2005, WADA had found that a phenomenon called “unstable urine” in samples could lead to positive tests for low levels of nandrolone. In very rare cases nandrolone could be found in samples not because of external administration but as a result of a chemical reaction that “may occur in a vial containing urine.”

Then-WADA Director General David Howman stood by the efficacy of previous testing for nandrolone and said the chances of urine becoming unstable were “very rare”. The chances were between 1 out of 1,000 and 1 out of 10,000 positive tests for nandrolone.

You would basically have to be @FCBarca to believe that both Pep and De Boer could throw up false positives around the same time.

 

[Pexbo]

We've seen bigger scandals go under the radar with much bigger numbers of people involved.

As others have said he won't be the only one.

I’ve got my doubts about the Spanish NT and Barcelona, I just find it a stretch to think that Pep has systematically doped his squads for a decade and there hasn’t been a single whistle blower.

You think Zlatan wouldn’t have said anything if he saw something? I’m sure there is plenty of other players who didn’t like Pep.

 

[redom]

Doesn't strike me as too difficult. As usual football gives zero fecks as long as there's entertainment and money involved.

Then why aren't others doing it to the same extent if he's getting such a benefit from it? or they are and his teams are still better so it's neither here nor there.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Sassy.

Umm Hmm!

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I’ve got my doubts about the Spanish NT and Barcelona, I just find it a stretch to think that Pep has systematically doped his squads for a decade and there hasn’t been a single whistle blower.

You think Zlatan wouldn’t have said anything if he saw something? I’m sure there is plenty of other players who didn’t like Pep.

Not that I think any of this has any substance, pardon the pun, but I’d imagine anyone privy to this knowledge first hand would keep schtum, as they would basically incriminate themselves?

 

[Sunny Jim]

It would be pretty big for us if Pep was found out. We've been second best to his teams frequently.

Weren't the Barca samples destroyed after the Fuentes trial?

 

[AshRK]

If only Mou had some dope to provide KDB years ago, Klopp must be doing similar with Salah as well

It's quite funny on how you bring Jose in almost every post for no reason.

 

[2mufc0]

We probably tried doping but dealers thought we were narcs using a fax machine to place orders.

 

[2 man midfield]

Weren't the Barca samples destroyed after the Fuentes trial?

No idea tbh.

 

[Pexbo]

Weren't the Barca samples destroyed after the Fuentes trial?

IIRC we don’t know who’s samples they were. They were ordered to be destroyed but recently it came out that they hadn’t been destroyed and the decision might be overturned.

 

[SirAF]

It's quite funny on how you bring Jose in almost every post for no reason.

I was going to comment on this, but didn’t want to derail

 

[SteveJ]

I can't believe that drugs were on Pep.