Pep Guardiola | Leaving City: Official

Adisa said:
He has been at such clubs because he’s an extremely talented coach.

I don’t understand why that’s a slight on him. Like he should go to a struggling club just to prove people wrong. Barcelona and Bayern are not financially doped clubs and even at City, he has often got player to outperform the expectations placed on them.
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Like I said. Talented manager but he’s never had much adversity. Inherited the greatest player to ever play the game at Barcelona. Bayern already dominated their league and then the money at City.

The advantages he’s had there that I previously mentioned have not even come close to being afforded to any other manager.
 
Adisa said:
He has been at such clubs because he’s an extremely talented coach.

I don’t understand why that’s a slight on him. Like he should go to a struggling club just to prove people wrong. Barcelona and Bayern are not financially doped clubs and even at City, he has often got players to outperform the expectations placed on them.
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I think it’s because the likes of Fergie and even Klopp have rebuilt clubs that had fallen on hard times whereas Pep inherited 3 of the best players of all time at Barca, went to a one team league with Bayern and had an infinite money cheat code at City. Great manager no doubt but he’s not exactly had circumstances against him or performed a miracle with a smaller club (Jose and Porto).
 
Solius said:
Like I said. Talented manager but he’s never had much adversity. Inherited the greatest player to ever play the game at Barcelona. Bayern already dominated their league and then the money at City.

The advantages he’s had there that I previously mentioned have not even come close to being afforded to any other manager.
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The greatest player to ever play the game was at Barcelona when he arrived and they had gone two seasons without a trophy. Or should we ignore his role in making Messi the best player in the world?

I really don’t understand the advantages that other top coaches haven’t been offered. He’s not the first coach to manage a financially doped club, he won’t be the last. I don’t know why it’s difficult to admit his record is great, maybe because he’s that good a coach.

For me it’s like saying a top player can only prove he’s among the best by going to a struggling club and turning things around. He’s very talented, so he’s in demand by the best. That’s not his fault.
 
Solius said:
They don’t spend as much in January as City have. Maybe Chelsea. Obviously there’s lots of question marks over their fees too. Infinite money and yet they seem to never get fleeced. Lots of under the table stuff rumoured.
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That's irrelevant, the bigger teams spend more money, city haven't spent much in recent years so could afford to when needed to.

There are no rumours about under-the-table stuff between clubs as that wouldn't make sense, it's public. Between club and players then yes.
 
Irwin99 said:
I think it’s because the likes of Fergie and even Klopp have rebuilt clubs that had fallen on hard times whereas Pep inherited 3 of the best players of all time at Barca, went to a one team league with Bayern and had an infinite money cheat code at City. Great manager no doubt but he’s not exactly had circumstances against him or performed a miracle with a smaller club (Jose and Porto).
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When he joined Barcelona they were certainly not 3 of the best players, in fact the season before they were struggling. They became those legends under pep. Should we say the same about saf and the 1992 youngsters or any players that became legends here?
 
Hammondo said:
When he joined Barcelona they were certainly not 3 of the best players, in fact the season before they were struggling. They became those legends under pep. Should we say the same about saf and the 1992 youngsters or any players that became legends here?
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Well I think Messi was certainly going to be an all time great regardless, and I seem to recall him being spectacular before Pep (not that Pep didn’t help him of course). A hatrick against Real Madrid at 19 years of age is pretty extraordinary.
 
Hammondo said:
When he joined Barcelona they were certainly not 3 of the best players, in fact the season before they were struggling. They became those legends under pep. Should we say the same about saf and the 1992 youngsters or any players that became legends here?
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Xavi (27) and Iniesta (24) were established prime aged players who helped drive Spain to winning the Euros the summer Guardiola was appointed. They both hit their highest levels subsequently under Pep but I don't think struggling is very accurate.

Messi had 16 goals and 14 assists across 36 matches in all comps as a 20-year-old player in 07-08. He developed into the best player in the world under Pep but I wouldn't say he was struggling beforehand either.
 
Hammondo said:
That's irrelevant, the bigger teams spend more money, city haven't spent much in recent years so could afford to when needed to.

There are no rumours about under-the-table stuff between clubs as that wouldn't make sense, it's public. Between club and players then yes.
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Are you really this naive?
 
He’s built/building another top team …can’t believe he’ll leave it for someone else to benefit.

He’ll be staying.
 
Adisa said:
The greatest player to ever play the game was at Barcelona when he arrived and they had gone two seasons without a trophy. Or should we ignore his role in making Messi the best player in the world?

I really don’t understand the advantages that other top coaches haven’t been offered. He’s not the first coach to manage a financially doped club, he won’t be the last. I don’t know why it’s difficult to admit his record is great, maybe because he’s that good a coach.

For me it’s like saying a top player can only prove he’s among the best by going to a struggling club and turning things around. He’s very talented, so he’s in demand by the best. That’s not his fault.
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TBF, you were responding to a post by @Solius that began with "He’s definitely extremely talented but it does make it basically impossible to quantify any achievements when he’s only ever been at clubs that have quite a substantial advantage over the rest of the league."

I don't think you are really arguing against the points being made, because nobody has ever said his record isn't great. Applying context is always helpful when evaluating anything.

I also think it's too reductive to say that his advantage at City is purely in the financial department. Man City prepared for Guardiola's arrival by essentially importing Barcelona's back office to Manchester, several years before Guardiola even arrived. It's a level of support that very few managers have ever received upon arriving at a new club, so it's fair to refer to it as something that probably made Guardiola's job a bit easier.
 
Powderfinger said:
Xavi (27) and Iniesta (24) were established prime aged players who helped drive Spain to winning the Euros the summer Guardiola was appointed. They both hit their highest levels subsequently under Pep but I don't think struggling is very accurate.

Messi had 16 goals and 14 assists across 36 matches in all comps as a 20-year-old player in 07-08. He developed into the best player in the world under Pep but I wouldn't say he was struggling beforehand either.
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They came 3rd in la liga, 15 less goals than this season with 2 games left. And they didn't win it the season before either. It was a downward trajectory.

Iniesta got 3 goals and 6 assists, xavi 7 and 6. Look at their stats the first season with pep how much they went up.
 
Crazy how his squad drew against Everton. Old Pep teams would have won 7-2 or something crazy like that.
 
Gazza said:
TBF, you were responding to a post by @Solius that began with "He’s definitely extremely talented but it does make it basically impossible to quantify any achievements when he’s only ever been at clubs that have quite a substantial advantage over the rest of the league."

I don't think you are really arguing against the points being made, because nobody has ever said his record isn't great. Applying context is always helpful when evaluating anything.

I also think it's too reductive to say that his advantage at City is purely in the financial department. Man City prepared for Guardiola's arrival by essentially importing Barcelona's back office to Manchester, several years before Guardiola even arrived. It's a level of support that very few managers have ever received upon arriving at a new club, so it's fair to refer to it as something that probably made Guardiola's job a bit easier.
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Yep think people are just conveniently ignoring the actual points. Never denied he’s a great manager. One of the best. Never said he needs to go to a poor club to prove himself.

Just impossible to judge him based on the absolute luxuries he’s been gifted with time and time again.
 
I hope he leaves

But let's be honest why would he?

legal or not.. everything is in place for him to keep succeeding at City.:nono:
 
GueRed said:
I hope he leaves

But let's be honest why would he?

legal or not.. everything is in place for him to keep succeeding at City.:nono:
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Unless he has reason to believe City will be fully exonerated on the 115 charges, I think he leaves. I just don't think he wants to spend next year answering questions about the charges, whatever punishment they might receive, what he knew at points in the past, whether it stains his legacy, etc. He's going to feck off and let other people deal with all that.
 
Solius said:
Yep think people are just conveniently ignoring the actual points. Never denied he’s a great manager. One of the best. Never said he needs to go to a poor club to prove himself.

Just impossible to judge him based on the absolute luxuries he’s been gifted with time and time again.
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I think you made a very reasonable point
 
Solius said:
Yep think people are just conveniently ignoring the actual points. Never denied he’s a great manager. One of the best. Never said he needs to go to a poor club to prove himself.

Just impossible to judge him based on the absolute luxuries he’s been gifted with time and time again.
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Exactly. I will never think of him as one of the all time, top of the pyramid greats because of this. Maybe he takes on a harder project after City but that seems super doubtful.
 
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